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Is Lack of Secondary Depth that Different from Years Past?

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I decided to make a new thread. Moderators can combine with another if they feel necessary:

 

Is our "lack of secondary depth" that much different from years past??

 

This has obviously been the big worry among fans this off-season, including myself. BUT being the optimistic type that I am, I decided to look a little deeper at our past situations:

 

2011 (AFC North Champ Game)

FS - Ed Reed, Nakamura

SS - Pollard, Zibikowski, Cook

CB - Webb, Williams, Carr, Smith, Brown, Gorrer

 

2012 (Super Bowl Champs)

FS - Ed Reed, Considine, Brown

SS - Pollard, Inhedigbo

CB - Williams, Graham, Smith, Brown, Jackson, Johnson, (Webb injured)

 

2013 (Missed Playoffs)

FS - Elam, Trawick, Brown

SS - Inhedigbo, Miles, Levine

CB - Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown, Jackson

 

2014 (TBD)

FS - Stewart, Brooks, Hill

SS - Elam, Miles, Levine

CB - Webb, Smith, Jackson, Brown, Franks

 

Lets compare this year's projected roster (IMO) to our 2 most successful years - 2011 & 2012.

 

Free Safety

2011 & 2012 Ed Reed was far from his best year, BUT I would still take him over Stewart. Although, 'IF' Will Hill comes back as the real deal, he could be better than 2011 and 2012 Ed Reed. However, the depth behind Reed for 2011 and 2012 was non-existent. I think our depth now is superior for this position.

 

Overall conclusion: FS had a better starter in 2011 & 2012, but depth in 2014 is superior.

 

Strong Safety

I loved Pollard in 2011 & 2012. He played like a Raven, BUT he was a liability in coverage. I truly believe Elam will be better than Pollard this year. As for depth, I would say it is a draw. Special team guys who are average at best for all 3 years (yes I know Inhedigbo was a starter in 2013 but I think we could find a comparable backup this year if we had to between Miles, Levine, Hill, Brooks at SS).

 

Overall conclusion: SS has better starter in 2014, depth is about the same.

 

Corner Back

Now this is the area everyone is quivering over. Look at 2011, our best defensive year. We had Webb, Williams, & Carr. Smith was injured and still transitioning, Brown was worse than he is now (ouch), and Gorrer was a ST guy. I truly believe our CB rotation and depth will be better now than it was then. Webb 2011 >/= Webb 2014, Smith 2014 > Williams 2011, Jackson 2014 >/= Carr 2011, Brown/Franks 2014 >/= Smith/Brown 2011.

 

How about 2012? 2014 Webb and Smith is better than 2012 Williams and Graham. Jackson 2014 and Smith 2012 are maybe equivalent or slight edge to Smith. Brown now is better than he was in 2012. I would still give the edge for rotation and depth to 2014!!

 

Overall conclusion: CB has better starters in 2014, and slightly better depth.

 

Overall, sorry for the length, but when you really break it down from year to year, we are in better shape now than we were the past 3 years. I think what you realize, is that depth is ALWAYS going to be an issue. Sure, if one of our top 3 goes down, we will be a little hurt, but that has been the case for every year...AND EVERY TEAM! Pro Bowl depth just does not exist...it is an unrealistic expectation.

 

Side note, some people may say that our depth was superior in 2012 BEFORE Webb went down. But remember, The only proven guys were Williams and Webb. Graham was a no-name ST guy and Smith was a sophomore with little playing time. On paper this looks good now, but at the time it was far more frightening than now. Lets have faith that Asa will be as good, if not better than Graham.

 

Let me know your thoughts. Go Ravens!

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I like your thought but it's far too myopic, IMO. You say 2011 was our best year. Yeah, let's evaluate that for a moment. Ed Reed and Ray Lewis ensured that communication was top notch in that defense. That's a huge deal. Next, we had Ed Reed at FS who was still relatively feared by QBs. We had DPOY Terrell "The Freak" Suggs who had 14 sacks and 6 passes defended and 2 interceptions with 7 forced fumbles. That's ridiculous. That isn't even counting the pressures he provided, which rushes QBs to throw quicker than normal. Paul Kruger had 5.5 sacks as well that year and 2 PD himself to complement Suggs with McPhee accounting for 6 sacks and 2 PD and 1 FF as well to his credit. That's ridiculous pass rush complementing Suggs to rush the passer and to reduce the time the secondary needs to cover. Our secondary was better in 2012 despite Ed Reed being older and a bit broken. Let's not forget Cory Redding with 4.5 sacks and 2 PD, a younger Haloti Ngata with 5 sacks, 5 PD, and  2 FF. Oh yeah, and we had Chuck Pagano running the defense. Yeah..that's a big recipe for success. 

 

Nakamura and Zbikowski were role players on ST. Ed Reed was, like, never pulled. As for your comment about the 2012 CB corps, by the time that Webb went down we were seeing good things from both Jimmy and Graham. I get your point, but I don't feel it's entirely correct when compared to what happened at the time. 

 

Our CB corps is definitely better than last year, but it's still not that good. The best part about our secondary is we have three starters who are the same in Elam, Smith and Webb. Granted, Elam is returning to SS but that shouldn't be an issue on paper. That leaves questions at FS and slot CB as well as depth. No, our CB situation isn't entirely awful and our secondary should perform well as long as the DL and OLB put pressure on the QB and we have creative schemes from Pees. This will mask a weak or possibly susceptible secondary. I like our pass rushers with Suggs, McPhee and Dumervil as well as our interior rushers in Williams, Tyson, Ngata and Canty with even Brown and Smith in the mix. I am worried about our DL, though, because we really need to stop the run. That's an area where I am concerned more than anything. It's why I'd like to see formations such as this quite a bit: 

 

Dumervil | Williams | Ngata | Suggs

Smith | Mosley | Brown

 

Rotate Upshaw with Dumervil and Daryl and even at interior DT and use McPhee behind Suggs and Dumervil to keep both fresh. 

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I honestly think that, talent for talent, our starting secondary can be as good as it was in the Super Bowl. I think our safety depth is better than it was. But our CB depth, I think, is comparable but not quite as good. I think that we'll be fine if Chykie and Asa develop the way I think they could. I have confidence in Asa, but I'm less confident in Chykie. Much like Jimmy, Chykie is best in press man, but he's not good at looking for the ball. That could be a problem, but he's pretty decent for a #4 corner. 

 

I feel like I'm rambling at this point so, to put it simply: I'm worried about our cornerback depth, but I think they have potential. Also, having two good safeties can cover up shaky corners, especially in Pees' scheme. 

 

Also, as Grim noted, our defensive line depth is horrible and might force us into a shift to more 4-3 sets. 

Edited by The Raven
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I like your thought but it's far too myopic, IMO. You say 2011 was our best year. Yeah, let's evaluate that for a moment. Ed Reed and Ray Lewis ensured that communication was top notch in that defense. That's a huge deal. Next, we had Ed Reed at FS who was still relatively feared by QBs. We had DPOY Terrell "The Freak" Suggs who had 14 sacks and 6 passes defended and 2 interceptions with 7 forced fumbles. That's ridiculous. That isn't even counting the pressures he provided, which rushes QBs to throw quicker than normal. Paul Kruger had 5.5 sacks as well that year and 2 PD himself to complement Suggs with McPhee accounting for 6 sacks and 2 PD and 1 FF as well to his credit. That's ridiculous pass rush complementing Suggs to rush the passer and to reduce the time the secondary needs to cover. Our secondary was better in 2012 despite Ed Reed being older and a bit broken. Let's not forget Cory Redding with 4.5 sacks and 2 PD, a younger Haloti Ngata with 5 sacks, 5 PD, and  2 FF. Oh yeah, and we had Chuck Pagano running the defense. Yeah..that's a big recipe for success. 

 

Nakamura and Zbikowski were role players on ST. Ed Reed was, like, never pulled. As for your comment about the 2012 CB corps, by the time that Webb went down we were seeing good things from both Jimmy and Graham. I get your point, but I don't feel it's entirely correct when compared to what happened at the time. 

 

Our CB corps is definitely better than last year, but it's still not that good. The best part about our secondary is we have three starters who are the same in Elam, Smith and Webb. Granted, Elam is returning to SS but that shouldn't be an issue on paper. That leaves questions at FS and slot CB as well as depth. No, our CB situation isn't entirely awful and our secondary should perform well as long as the DL and OLB put pressure on the QB and we have creative schemes from Pees. This will mask a weak or possibly susceptible secondary. I like our pass rushers with Suggs, McPhee and Dumervil as well as our interior rushers in Williams, Tyson, Ngata and Canty with even Brown and Smith in the mix. I am worried about our DL, though, because we really need to stop the run. That's an area where I am concerned more than anything. It's why I'd like to see formations such as this quite a bit: 

 

Dumervil | Williams | Ngata | Suggs

Smith | Mosley | Brown

 

Rotate Upshaw with Dumervil and Daryl and even at interior DT and use McPhee behind Suggs and Dumervil to keep both fresh. 

Yes, those are all good observations. My overall point is that depth has always been an issue and will always be an issue at a position (CB) where you need to find 3-4 quality contributors on a 53 man roster. My intention was just to let people know that it is not any more or any less of an issue than years past - no need to panic!

 

I really hope we can get back to that 2011 disruption in the front.

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Not to get too far from the topic, but Re: stopping the run - I do not actually think this was a problem with our DL as much as with our ILBs. I think our DL is more than adequate and has enough depth to be good if not great this year. What we lacked last year were ILBs that could read and attack the runner once the DL ate up blockers. I am not a fan of Daryl Smith to be honest. We need a MIKE who can dissect and stop the run first and foremost.

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I honestly think that, talent for talent, our starting secondary can be as good as it was in the Super Bowl. I think our safety depth is better than it was. But our CB depth, I think, is comparable but not quite as good. I think that we'll be fine if Chykie and Asa develop the way I think they could. I have confidence in Asa, but I'm less confident in Chykie. Much like Jimmy, Chykie is best in press man, but he's not good at looking for the ball. That could be a problem, but he's pretty decent for a #4 corner. 

 

I feel like I'm rambling at this point so, to put it simply: I'm worried about our cornerback depth, but I think they have potential. Also, having two good safeties can cover up shaky corners, especially in Pees' scheme. 

 

Also, as Grim noted, our defensive line depth is horrible and might force us into a shift to more 4-3 sets. 

Surprisingly, I don't think our DL depth is horrible. I actually have issues with the DL starters of all players. Canty and Ngata played a big part in our inability to stop the run like years past last year. I'm not worried about our pass rush as much as our run stopping ability. This is where I am very concerned. I'm really hopeful that Tyson, Williams, Ngata and Canty can actually stop the run this year now that Arthur Jones is gone. He was a good run-stopping DT with underrated pass rush. 

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Yes, those are all good observations. My overall point is that depth has always been an issue and will always be an issue at a position (CB) where you need to find 3-4 quality contributors on a 53 man roster. My intention was just to let people know that it is not any more or any less of an issue than years past - no need to panic!

 

I really hope we can get back to that 2011 disruption in the front.

 

Not to get too far from the topic, but Re: stopping the run - I do not actually think this was a problem with our DL as much as with our ILBs. I think our DL is more than adequate and has enough depth to be good if not great this year. What we lacked last year were ILBs that could read and attack the runner once the DL ate up blockers. I am not a fan of Daryl Smith to be honest. We need a MIKE who can dissect and stop the run first and foremost.

I think CB depth wouldn't be seen as much of a concern if we drafted one. Lol. Or at least took a guy like Desir. 

 

The DL is absolutely responsible for that last year. There's no two ways about it. The DL is supposed to dominate the LOS and by doing that stop the run and rush the passer by shutting down the OL. The ILBs played a role, no question, but it is not squarely on their shoulders. Not in the least. Haloti Ngata and Canty were getting beat at times and allowing large space for big gains by RBs. That's not on the LBs. 

Edited by GrimCoconut
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Surprisingly, I don't think our DL depth is horrible. I actually have issues with the DL starters of all players. Canty and Ngata played a big part in our inability to stop the run like years past last year. I'm not worried about our pass rush as much as our run stopping ability. This is where I am very concerned. I'm really hopeful that Tyson, Williams, Ngata and Canty can actually stop the run this year now that Arthur Jones is gone. He was a good run-stopping DT with underrated pass rush. 

 

My fear is not the inability of the depth, but rather the lack of 3-4 type players who can stop the run. I know everyone loves Jernigan, and I do too, but I saw him get driven back a lot last week. He's not big and strong enough to stop the run yet. While Tyson is strong, I don't think he fits in as a two gapper. He can stop the run alright but he's not quite big/strong enough. I'm concerned about the lack of players that fit our traditional scheme. And yeah, valid points also about Canty and Ngata. Canty was horrible in some games last year and Ngata showed a clear lack of effort sometimes. 

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Safeties are as deep as they've ever been. Not known in terms of talent - a lot of these guys are still unproven - but in terms of quality players who are worth having on them team. We've got 7 on the team and you could make a legitimate case for all of them to be on the 53 (Will Hill will be by default because of the suspension)

 

CB is mirkier. Webb, Smith, Jackson, and Brown are all locks. Jackson and Brown are still fighting for the third CB job but Asa is in the lead at the moment. Players like Franks, Olatoye, Jacobs, etc are all competing and have generated press for themselves with their play. Seamster and Norman are still around and have a shot. 9 corners in total.

 

Here's how I see the positions at this moment.

 

S - Elam, Stewart, Brooks, Miles, Trawick, Will Hill*

 

Levine and Brown are bubble players. I left Levine off but because of his ST experience he could make the squad with some solid game performance. Especially with Brooks spending time in nickle situations, we could carry a 6th (7th*) safety on the 53. Someone would be cut/injured by the end of Hill's suspension.

 

CB - Webb, Smith, Jackson, Brown, Franks, Jacobs.

 

Six corners, the other guys have a shot to replace Franks/Jacobs with their performances. It's really up in the air but Franks and Jacobs lead the pack in my mind.

 

The real sticking point for me when I think about this years secondary is the third CB position. Corey Graham was invaluable because he could play outside and slot and was well-versed in the defense as well as having veteran experience. Maybe Jackson develops into that, maybe Franks already is that, don't know.

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Safeties are as deep as they've ever been. Not known in terms of talent - a lot of these guys are still unproven - but in terms of quality players who are worth having on them team. We've got 7 on the team and you could make a legitimate case for all of them to be on the 53 (Will Hill will be by default because of the suspension)

 

CB is mirkier. Webb, Smith, Jackson, and Brown are all locks. Jackson and Brown are still fighting for the third CB job but Asa is in the lead at the moment. Players like Franks, Olatoye, Jacobs, etc are all competing and have generated press for themselves with their play. Seamster and Norman are still around and have a shot. 9 corners in total.

 

Here's how I see the positions at this moment.

 

S - Elam, Stewart, Brooks, Miles, Trawick, Will Hill*

 

Levine and Brown are bubble players. I left Levine off but because of his ST experience he could make the squad with some solid game performance. Especially with Brooks spending time in nickle situations, we could carry a 6th (7th*) safety on the 53. Someone would be cut/injured by the end of Hill's suspension.

 

CB - Webb, Smith, Jackson, Brown, Franks, Jacobs.

 

Six corners, the other guys have a shot to replace Franks/Jacobs with their performances. It's really up in the air but Franks and Jacobs lead the pack in my mind.

 

The real sticking point for me when I think about this years secondary is the third CB position. Corey Graham was invaluable because he could play outside and slot and was well-versed in the defense as well as having veteran experience. Maybe Jackson develops into that, maybe Franks already is that, don't know.

Yeah, FWIW, I think Jackson is that player. I really do. I think he can play anywhere--inside or outside. Other than that, I disagree in a few areas with this. Specifically, you have us carrying 11 secondary players. Now, it could happen, but that's a lot. I definitely agree with the ones I placed in bold. I'm not sure Brown is a lock as you think. I did at a point, but I'm not so confident after his struggles and our recent experiments with safeties playing CB--specifically, safeties who are also good on ST. It seems like we could be looking at using safeties good on ST to fill CB roles for the team for versatility. I do agree with you, that Franks and Jacobs lead the pack out of the other CBs. I think those two have a really good chance to make this team, with Brown possibly being left on the outside looking in. 

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I think CB depth wouldn't be seen as much of a concern if we drafted one. Lol. Or at least took a guy like Desir. 

 

The DL is absolutely responsible for that last year. There's no two ways about it. The DL is supposed to dominate the LOS and by doing that stop the run and rush the passer by shutting down the OL. The ILBs played a role, no question, but it is not squarely on their shoulders. Not in the least. Haloti Ngata and Canty were getting beat at times and allowing large space for big gains by RBs. That's not on the LBs. 

 

Wait, wait, wait; I never said the DL was not responsible. I was just trying to say the ILBs played a big role in our inability to stop the run. We missed Ray in our run D for sure - ILB pass coverage was better. I totally agree that Canty is a huge weak point. I am not a fan of his. Hopefully using Williams at the shade and moving Ngata to the 3 will help.

 

My fear is not the inability of the depth, but rather the lack of 3-4 type players who can stop the run. I know everyone loves Jernigan, and I do too, but I saw him get driven back a lot last week. He's not big and strong enough to stop the run yet. While Tyson is strong, I don't think he fits in as a two gapper. He can stop the run alright but he's not quite big/strong enough. I'm concerned about the lack of players that fit our traditional scheme. And yeah, valid points also about Canty and Ngata. Canty was horrible in some games last year and Ngata showed a clear lack of effort sometimes. 

I honestly think Jernigan is a perfect fit as a 3tech 3-4 DT. As for not being strong enough, I cannot dispute that. We shall see. Again, I agree with Canty. Hopefully someone steps up.

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Safeties are as deep as they've ever been. Not known in terms of talent - a lot of these guys are still unproven - but in terms of quality players who are worth having on them team. We've got 7 on the team and you could make a legitimate case for all of them to be on the 53 (Will Hill will be by default because of the suspension)

 

CB is mirkier. Webb, Smith, Jackson, and Brown are all locks. Jackson and Brown are still fighting for the third CB job but Asa is in the lead at the moment. Players like Franks, Olatoye, Jacobs, etc are all competing and have generated press for themselves with their play. Seamster and Norman are still around and have a shot. 9 corners in total.

 

Here's how I see the positions at this moment.

 

S - Elam, Stewart, Brooks, Miles, Trawick, Will Hill*

 

Levine and Brown are bubble players. I left Levine off but because of his ST experience he could make the squad with some solid game performance. Especially with Brooks spending time in nickle situations, we could carry a 6th (7th*) safety on the 53. Someone would be cut/injured by the end of Hill's suspension.

 

CB - Webb, Smith, Jackson, Brown, Franks, Jacobs.

 

Six corners, the other guys have a shot to replace Franks/Jacobs with their performances. It's really up in the air but Franks and Jacobs lead the pack in my mind.

 

The real sticking point for me when I think about this years secondary is the third CB position. Corey Graham was invaluable because he could play outside and slot and was well-versed in the defense as well as having veteran experience. Maybe Jackson develops into that, maybe Franks already is that, don't know.

Yes, everyone loved Graham, but remember he was an unproven CB when he came to the Ravens. No reason someone can't be that next guy, as you talked about.

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Wait, wait, wait; I never said the DL was not responsible. I was just trying to say the ILBs played a big role in our inability to stop the run. We missed Ray in our run D for sure - ILB pass coverage was better. I totally agree that Canty is a huge weak point. I am not a fan of his. Hopefully using Williams at the shade and moving Ngata to the 3 will help.

 

I honestly think Jernigan is a perfect fit as a 3tech 3-4 DT. As for not being strong enough, I cannot dispute that. We shall see. Again, I agree with Canty. Hopefully someone steps up.

Okay. ILB was responsible for sure. Daryl was a tackling machine but I don't recall him racking up TFL. Ray would help with his instincts and big hitting play. I like Jernigan quite a bit here. Really excited for him. I think he could be a great player and he kinda reminds me of Richardson from last year. 

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Yes, everyone loved Graham, but remember he was an unproven CB when he came to the Ravens. No reason someone can't be that next guy, as you talked about.

This isn't entirely true. 

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-23/sports/chi-bears-corey-graham-sign-ravens-20120323_1_corey-graham-bears-free-agent-visit

 

Granted, he isn't proven but he did play in three games and showed quite a bit of promise coming up with INTs in those games, like he showed here. But as stated, he wasn't entirely raw, either. He had some success and had seen some experience on defense. 

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Yeah, FWIW, I think Jackson is that player. I really do. I think he can play anywhere--inside or outside. Other than that, I disagree in a few areas with this. Specifically, you have us carrying 11 secondary players. Now, it could happen, but that's a lot. I definitely agree with the ones I placed in bold. I'm not sure Brown is a lock as you think. I did at a point, but I'm not so confident after his struggles and our recent experiments with safeties playing CB--specifically, safeties who are also good on ST. It seems like we could be looking at using safeties good on ST to fill CB roles for the team for versatility. I do agree with you, that Franks and Jacobs lead the pack out of the other CBs. I think those two have a really good chance to make this team, with Brown possibly being left on the outside looking in. 

 

We held 11 in 2012 so it's not out of the question but I agree that it's a lot. You could probably chop off Trawick or Jacobs (more likely Jacobs, imo) but those players have produced. Practice squad candidates, I guess.

 

Brown, despite being very unimpressive, sticks around again I think. He's got game experience and familiarity with the staff, including being one of Newsome's favorites and a pretty good ST gunner. I, begrudgingly, think he's safe.

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Nope.  Webb still isn't playing, I trust Asa, and regardless of how Chykie looks now, he's been a capable back up until now.  TC is still going on and there is plenty of time for a move to be made.  If there is one position I've learned to trust Ozzie with recently, since the Foxworth mulligan I'll give him, it's db.  I would like a more set answer for what's happening at FS, but I think that's Will Hill's job to lose when off of suspension, if no else puts a strangle hold on that spot.

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We held 11 in 2012 so it's not out of the question but I agree that it's a lot. You could probably chop off Trawick or Jacobs (more likely Jacobs, imo) but those players have produced. Practice squad candidates, I guess.

Brown, despite being very unimpressive, sticks around again I think. He's got game experience and familiarity with the staff, including being one of Newsome's favorites and a pretty good ST gunner. I, begrudgingly, think he's safe.

Brown could. I definitely think he has a really good chance but I don't think he's a lock. He is a good gunner and I do recall him doing well on ST. I think it comes down between him and Levine, actually. I think Trawick sticks around.
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I think the difference is, there was more trust in the starting group. The idea was, if one went down, you still had three really good starters. If a corner went down, we knew that we still had Ed helping out in the back. Or if Ed went down, we had good starting corners that wouldn't need as much safety help. Now we have a largely unproven starting free safety, a young SS just starting to come into his own, and two really good corners. If a corner goes down, there is no confidence that the free safety will be able to help cover up that weakness.

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I think the real issue is at CB. We have had at least 3 proven guys at CB every year. This year, I would say that we have 2. I have faith in Asa, but he has yet to see the field in the regular season. Chykie has played meaningful snaps, but he has not played well.

 

It's definitely an area of concern.

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Brown could. I definitely think he has a really good chance but I don't think he's a lock. He is a good gunner and I do recall him doing well on ST. I think it comes down between him and Levine, actually. I think Trawick sticks around.

 

I think the biggest thing that helps out Chykie right now is that he's an outside CB.  I think there will be cases where we'll want to move Webb inside.  Now, I'm not saying that Jackson can't play outside, but I'm sure there will be times where we'll prefer some length on the outside as opposed to the height deprived Jackson and Webb.  Even all of the S's that slide up have been playing the slot.

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I think the real issue is at CB. We have had at least 3 proven guys at CB every year. This year, I would say that we have 2. I have faith in Asa, but he has yet to see the field in the regular season. Chykie has played meaningful snaps, but he has not played well.

 

It's definitely an area of concern.

 

Yeah I agree with this. Our top 2 guys are good but we need a #3 guy. Heaven forbid Webb or Jimmy miss significant regular season time(knock on wood) and both guys have their history with injuries. Someone could emerge and help but that isn't a guarantee either. It is a concern as opposed to previous years when we have had a solid top 3 or someone emerged like in 2012 with Graham and latter Smith stepping up.

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I think the biggest thing that helps out Chykie right now is that he's an outside CB. I think there will be cases where we'll want to move Webb inside. Now, I'm not saying that Jackson can't play outside, but I'm sure there will be times where we'll prefer some length on the outside as opposed to the height deprived Jackson and Webb. Even all of the S's that slide up have been playing the slot.

Yeah but all that length really doesn't help him in some ways because he doesn't maximize it and doesn't necessarily play to his size. His lack of ball awareness is an issue as well. Webb has also proven to not let his height hinder his ability to play bigger and that works for Asa as well imo.
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Yeah but all that length really doesn't help him in some ways because he doesn't maximize it and doesn't necessarily play to his size. His lack of ball awareness is an issue as well. Webb has also proven to not let his height hinder his ability to play bigger and that works for Asa as well imo.

 

Yeah I mean, it's not ideal, but that's a distinct advantage that he has with the current makeup of our roster.  The top of the depth chart has a lot of guys that are more natural slot guys.

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Yeah I mean, it's not ideal, but that's a distinct advantage that he has with the current makeup of our roster. The top of the depth chart has a lot of guys that are more natural slot guys.

Yeah I hear you but in this situation I don't think it matters much because from what games I've seen, both Jackson and Webb play bigger than their listed height. It's what I like about both. I think Jackson will be a good one here. I'm really excited to see what he can do because I've been a very big fan of his since last preseason.
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Yeah I hear you but in this situation I don't think it matters much because from what games I've seen, both Jackson and Webb play bigger than their listed height. It's what I like about both. I think Jackson will be a good one here. I'm really excited to see what he can do because I've been a very big fan of his since last preseason.

 

Can't argue with that, but I'm sure there are going to be times that we want the guy with the true length that Chykie has.  Again, it's not meant to belittle Webb or Jackson at all.  Both are more than capable of playing on the outside.  As bad as Chykie has been, I think he's shown enough flashes to stick around for another year.

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Can't argue with that, but I'm sure there are going to be times that we want the guy with the true length that Chykie has. Again, it's not meant to belittle Webb or Jackson at all. Both are more than capable of playing on the outside. As bad as Chykie has been, I think he's shown enough flashes to stick around for another year.

I understand. I know you're not saying that. I'm really on the fence with Brown because I'm sure you've read my posts before about feeling good about his chances to make the team and now I'm not so confident. He's really playing below what I expected because I felt like we wanted to feature him to get a pick but that might not be possible if he continues to struggle. I feel like he's primed to be made to look good due to our pass rush. He's just making it hard to believe he'll succeed even with our pass rush lol. I think that's the plan we have for him, anyway. I think the coaches and FO intended on him being that surprise compensatory pick of our 2015 free agents. He's just not living up to what we all hoped. Edited by GrimCoconut
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I understand. I know you're not saying that. I'm really on the fence with Brown because I'm sure you've read my posts before about feeling good about his chances to make the team and now I'm not so confident. He's really playing below what I expected because I felt like we wanted to feature him to get a pick but that might not be possible if he continues to struggle. I feel like he's primed to be made to look good due to our pass rush. He's just making it hard to believe he'll succeed even with our pass rush lol. I think that's the plan we have for him, anyway. I think the coaches and FO intended on him being that surprise compensatory pick of our 2015 free agents. He's just not living up to what we all hoped.

 

I'm less confident myself, but still feel like he'll make it simply because the other options aren't overwhelming themselves.

 

RavensFan23 and I had this conversation in another thread at one point.  The biggest reason why I feel that Chykie is safe is because of his experience. Historically, we've never really thrown a guy with very little experience into the fire as the 3rd CB.  Usually those types of guys rotate in and work their way up through good play or injuries to the guys in front of them.  As much as I've been impressed with Asa, I'm not sure we're going to throw a guy with as few defensive snaps as he has into a "starting" role.  Is it ideal?  Absolutely not.  I've never been a Chykie fan, but historically, that's what the Ravens do.  The lack of depth (and to answer the thread, yes, the depth at CB is much worse than years past), especially veteran depth, is what I think keeps him around, even if he doesn't deserve it.

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I'm less confident myself, but still feel like he'll make it simply because the other options aren't overwhelming themselves.

RavensFan23 and I had this conversation in another thread at one point. The biggest reason why I feel that Chykie is safe is because of his experience. Historically, we've never really thrown a guy with very little experience into the fire as the 3rd CB. Usually those types of guys rotate in and work their way up through good play or injuries to the guys in front of them. As much as I've been impressed with Asa, I'm not sure we're going to throw a guy with as few defensive snaps as he has into a "starting" role. Is it ideal? Absolutely not. I've never been a Chykie fan, but historically, that's what the Ravens do. The lack of depth (and to answer the thread, yes, the depth at CB is much worse than years past), especially veteran depth, is what I think keeps him around, even if he doesn't deserve it.

There's no doubt that's true about what we like to do throughout the entire team. We historically use veterans and players within our system to move up and try to avoid starting rookies. I think that could benefit a guy like Franks, though, as he's also been in the league some time. Chykie just has more experience here in our system so that's his saving grace.
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There's no doubt that's true about what we like to do throughout the entire team. We historically use veterans and players within our system to move up and try to avoid starting rookies. I think that could benefit a guy like Franks, though, as he's also been in the league some time. Chykie just has more experience here in our system so that's his saving grace.

 

Franks is a guy I'd like to see some more before I make any judgment on him.  I worry about the fact that he only got 13 defensive snaps on an injury depleted team last year.  He definitely looked good on his interception against the 49ers, but I'd like to see him continue that against tougher competition than the 3rd string guys he was facing.  I've got my eye on him, though.

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Franks is a guy I'd like to see some more before I make any judgment on him. I worry about the fact that he only got 13 defensive snaps on an injury depleted team last year. He definitely looked good on his interception against the 49ers, but I'd like to see him continue that against tougher competition than the 3rd string guys he was facing. I've got my eye on him, though.

Franks is definitely in an interesting situation but I wouldn't label him anything yet based off of his previous team not playing him despite their bad secondary. I also know many will point to Corey Graham as an example of players considered strictly ST that can become more than that. I personally won't judge him yet either because some players look bad and some players look good depending on systems. I'll reserve my judgment. I am interested in seeing more.
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Franks is a guy I'd like to see some more before I make any judgment on him.  I worry about the fact that he only got 13 defensive snaps on an injury depleted team last year.  He definitely looked good on his interception against the 49ers, but I'd like to see him continue that against tougher competition than the 3rd string guys he was facing.  I've got my eye on him, though.

 

Franks is definitely in an interesting situation but I wouldn't label him anything yet based off of his previous team not playing him despite their bad secondary. I also know many will point to Corey Graham as an example of players considered strictly ST that can become more than that. I personally won't judge him yet either because some players look bad and some players look good depending on systems. I'll reserve my judgment. I am interested in seeing more.

 

Do either of you guys know what type system the Flacons ran last year. I'm not sure, but I know different guys thrive in different systems. From what I can tell about Franks, even going back to Oklahoma, he likes press man. Use his speed and quickness to either stay with WRs or close on the ball. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how much and how well he plays tonight.

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Do either of you guys know what type system the Flacons ran last year. I'm not sure, but I know different guys thrive in different systems. From what I can tell about Franks, even going back to Oklahoma, he likes press man. Use his speed and quickness to either stay with WRs or close on the ball. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how much and how well he plays tonight.

How does one post a multiple quote??? can't figure it out. :(

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Do either of you guys know what type system the Flacons ran last year. I'm not sure, but I know different guys thrive in different systems. From what I can tell about Franks, even going back to Oklahoma, he likes press man. Use his speed and quickness to either stay with WRs or close on the ball. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how much and how well he plays tonight.

I want to say that run/ran zone quite a bit. That's what came to mind for me anyway.
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How does one post a multiple quote??? can't figure it out. :(

One does not simply multi quote posts. Lol. If you're using mobile you really can't without a lot of hoops
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How does one post a multiple quote??? can't figure it out. :(

Assuming you're using the full site (which I do even on mobile), click the MultiQuote button at the bottom of each post you want to quote. Then at the bottom of your screen click on Respond to x Posts. They'll paste in the reply box.

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I want to say that run/ran zone quite a bit. That's what came to mind for me anyway.

That's what I was thinking. I think I remember them running that style often. We generally run a lot of man and I think that suits him much better. He's very instinctive and physical as a CB. He's more of a island type CB as opposed to a structure type if that makes sense.

 

 

How does one post a multiple quote??? can't figure it out. :(

 

Assuming you're using the full site (which I do even on mobile), click the MultiQuote button at the bottom of each post you want to quote. Then at the bottom of your screen click on Respond to x Posts. They'll paste in the reply box.

 

That's actually teaching me something because I usually just click "quote" at the bottom of each post I want to quote. Actually have never used the MultiQuote feature.

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as well as corey played for us down the stretch, im not so sure i would count on asa to be better or even equal then what we lost when corey left, and you saying all this about asa, means that with a superior 3rd corner, we had an excellent 4th corner, and chykie brown was even decent if you limited his snap count and his assignments, which is hard to find and makes you much more comfortable calling a 4-5 db set, we no longer have that luxury as we have a questionable 3rd corner who could be decent, and chykie as the 4th corner, and then after that, ????. 1 injury to our first 3 cbs and we are in deep doodoo gentlemen, the depth isnt as good as years past, promoting any corner past cb3 to get a large snap count could be the difference between a top 10 defense and a bottom 10 defense. if webb goes out for the year, that makes jackson the #2 cb, which makes chykie the #3 cb, which means hes getting a scary amount of reps, that is concerning for me, the TC reports and how he played against SF is reminiscent of frank walker.

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as well as corey played for us down the stretch, im not so sure i would count on asa to be better or even equal then what we lost when corey left, and you saying all this about asa, means that with a superior 3rd corner, we had an excellent 4th corner, and chykie brown was even decent if you limited his snap count and his assignments, which is hard to find and makes you much more comfortable calling a 4-5 db set, we no longer have that luxury as we have a questionable 3rd corner who could be decent, and chykie as the 4th corner, and then after that, ????. 1 injury to our first 3 cbs and we are in deep doodoo gentlemen, the depth isnt as good as years past, promoting any corner past cb3 to get a large snap count could be the difference between a top 10 defense and a bottom 10 defense. if webb goes out for the year, that makes jackson the #2 cb, which makes chykie the #3 cb, which means hes getting a scary amount of reps, that is concerning for me, the TC reports and how he played against SF is reminiscent of frank walker.

Everyone said this in 2012 too. "Oh man if Webb or Carey go down we are screwed. We would then have Smith who is looking like a 'bust' or Graham a ST player". Webb went down, graham and jimmy stepped up. All I'm saying is the uncertainty of our depth is the same as 2012 and 2011. Have faith in player development.

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The thing about depth is you rarely know how good it is to begin with. Nobody knew what type of depth Dickson and Pitta would provide behind Heap in 2010 because they were both unproven rookies but that seemed to work out well. At least in Pitta's case. Nobody knew what type of depth a guy like Tyson would provide on the DL last year because he was an unproven 7th rounder, but now the guy is firmly planted as a key role player.

 

The point is, you just don't know until those guys get out on the field. You can have all the faith and confidence in a guy, that doesn't mean he'll play well. How many people saw both Huff and Spears being cut last year. If you would have asked anyone they probably would have said at least they can provide quality depth, but they didn't and both where proven vets.

 

So inexperience isn't always a bad thing. Some guys are just the type who have been waiting on a shot to perform in game action.

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One does not simply multi quote posts. Lol. If you're using mobile you really can't without a lot of hoops

 

 

Assuming you're using the full site (which I do even on mobile), click the MultiQuote button at the bottom of each post you want to quote. Then at the bottom of your screen click on Respond to x Posts. They'll paste in the reply box.

SMH, tried lots of things but evidently not the obvious.

 

Thanks all.

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Ouch. I think once Jimmie Smith went out tonight we saw that the next three guys up are pretty mediocre. A lot of Frank Walker like moments. Actually not even that good -- Walker always gave everything he had even when outgunned in the talent department. I hope somebody halfway decent gets cut as teams pare down to 53, because Brown, Franks and company weren't playing well at all.

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We CANNOT go into the season with this secondary.

I still feel like Ozzie will bring in another vet either by trade or waiting out cuts. But it still depends on the quality available.

Maybe we'll catch a break, or maybe we'll come up with nothing. But I am sure he's trying.

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We CANNOT go into the season with this secondary.

Your right about that . We will have major problems in the secondary if Webb and Jimmy aren't ready for Cincy .

Like Boldin last year , letting Corey Graham walk was a major mistake . We still would have been under the cap .

I'm not exactly confident at Safety either .

Edited by jimmypowder
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Your right about that . We will have major problems in the secondary if Webb and Jimmy aren't ready for Cincy .

Like Boldin last year , letting Corey Graham walk was a major mistake . We still would have been under the cap .

I'm not exactly confident at Safety either .

 

 

I cringed when Corey signed with Buffalo, but we were not going to match 4 years at $16 mil.  Wouldn't have made sense.

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Your right about that . We will have major problems in the secondary if Webb and Jimmy aren't ready for Cincy .

Like Boldin last year , letting Corey Graham walk was a major mistake . We still would have been under the cap .

I'm not exactly confident at Safety either .

The Ravens were very interested in re-signing Graham but it seems like the Bills were willing to pay more money and The Buffalo Bills area is alot closer to home for him.

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Our secondary is raw and leaky.  Our safeties are suspect. Elam's got to step up, Brooks is still learning, not expecting too much from the rest.

 

 

Our corner depth is the worst we've had in years.  We have two solid starting corners in Web and Jimmy, both have suspect health.  Chykie is not a good 3rd string corner. I like what I've seen from Asa over the last 2 preseasons but is unproven.

 

 

Anyway compared to previous years we are definitely hurting.  The biggest drop off is the safety position, which has been strong for years. Now its just ok/mediocre.  And we've got no corner depth, in a league where you really need 3 or 4 great corners because of the new rules favoring the offense. 

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Who good is available or could be available via cut?

 

Teams don't often cut quality #3 CBs a week before the season begins.  The FA market has been picked over completely as well.  We just have to hope there's a surprise cut at this point, or see if we can swap a player at a deep position for a CB via trade.

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