Will it finally happen?

[PerpetuallyBored74]

To an extent, perhaps. I do, however, think Manning and Rodgers make mediocre or average receivers much better. Dont think many can really disagree there.

 

Peyton had at the beginning of his career, Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James, two HoF caliber players with James being an excellent pass-catching RB. Then the Colts added Reggie Wayne, another HoF caliber WR.

 

Peyton had 8 years of Harrison's prime (1999 - 2006), 7 years of James' prime (1999 - 2005), and 8 years of Wayne's prime (2003 - 2010) with 3 to 4 years of overlap between the three players (2003 - 2006). He also had Marshal Faulk for Peyton's rookie year with Faulk being one of the best pass catching RBs of all time.

 

Peyton deserves some credit for executing that offense to the high degree that he does, but part of the reason he's given a chance to execute it is because he's had HoF talent around him, which also serves to open things up for other quality players like Stokely, Clark, Garcon, Gonzales and Collie Because if you're doubling Wayne and Harrison then you're not doubling Clark or Stokely, for example, and those 2 are good enough to beat single coverage.

 

Same is true for Rodgers as Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones & Randall Cobb have all been legit #1 or #2 WRs with Jermichael Finley as a solid TE (before his neck injury). So, Rodgers has never been hurting for starting caliber talent, not with Jennings once regarded as a top 10 WR, Nelson (who should be seen as a top 10 talent) and Cobb who looks like he has that potential. And once again, that type of talent takes the pressure off lesser talented players, allowing them to be more productive.

 

Both Peyton and Rodgers are better than Joe. Let's make that clear.

 

Please don't misunderstand my point, which is that even the elite QBs need enough talent around them to be highly productive, so they can spread the ball around. It's really simple math (and common sense). How is a QB supposed to throw for 30 TDs if he only has 2 guys he can rely on? Only way that happens is if one guy gets 10 TDs while the other 20, or if both get 15. But how often does that happen? (answer: never). What these QBs usually do is throw 10 TDs to one guy, 7 to another, 6 to a third, then 2 or 3 TDs to several other guys with a few more guys catching a TD or two.

 

You can't do that without legit starters AND quality depth behind them (not guys who are on the team solely because they play special teams)

 

That's why I said that Joe has often lacked legit starters and/or quality depth at receiver. The only time he's had a complete receiving corp was 2010 with Mason, Boldin, Houshmenzadeh, and Heap (but no depth behind them other than rookies Pitta and Dickson--fortunately those 4 stayed healthy that year) and the 2012 playoff run with Anquan, Torrey, Jacoby and Dennis with Tandon, Deonte and Dickson in reserve. Not coincidentally, 2010 has been Flacco's best regular season performance while the 4 game stretch during the 2012 playoffs has been the best performance of his career.

It also helped greatly having a solid o-line for both those times.

 

So, what does Joe finally (appear) to have this year? Solid O-line (but poor depth) and a complete receiving corp with excellent depth. And as a bonus, he has a proven, modern scheme comparable to what the rest of the league, including the elite 4 QBs, uses.

[5aiah]

To an extent, perhaps. I do, however, think Manning and Rodgers make mediocre or average receivers much better. Dont think many can really disagree there.

1. Absolutely, their abilities and leadership allow them to get the most out of some receivers who then go on to other teams and aren't as motivated or used as well due to the difference in QB. 

 

2. Where do you think you are bro? Lmao.

[5aiah]

Both Peyton and Rodgers are better than Joe. Let's make that clear.

Once you realize why they are better, then the rest of your post will fall into place. I've been on this forum exactly about a year and this debate has been had in at least 10 threads. There's obviously multiple reasons Joe doesn't get the extra weapons and protection at the expense of the defense. The two biggest ones are that the Organization and the team just isn't going to make the philosophical shift to offense(at most they will look for balance), and the fact that Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

To be honest, to me Peyton and Rodgers are better at QB reliant offenses but they aren't better than Joe period, just different. They all have one ring to me. I don't know how they would fare in our previous offenses so I'll admit I just don't know and leave it at that. I do know Flacco has a chance this season to play in a more balanced passing attack and that we will soon know a lot more about his accuracy,vision, and consistency in comparison to the elite QBs. Last year everyone was saying how Joe would prove he was truly elite and consistent but the offense fell apart so he kinda gets a mulligan. This year he looks to have better weapons, better protection, a passing philosophy that should up his completion percentage, and a overall team philosophy that still keeps a good part of the responsibility off of him and back on the run game and the defense.  

We shall see....

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

Impossible to know this, one way or the other, when Joe's constantly lacked what the elite QBs generally have: complete receiving corps with legit, if not elite, starters; solid o-lines that don't have holes in them (our LG since 2011) and schemes that are never described by anyone as being based on the principle of "forcing square pegs into round holes".

 

It is somewhat telling that when Joe, on rare occassion, has had a complete receiving corp, solid o-line, and workable scheme that he's been very good, if not sensational.

 

As for Joe's weaknesses, when under constant duress, his footwork gets sloppy and that impacts everything else about his game. One way to counter this is to allow him to leave the pocket at his discretion or on designed rollouts. Another way is to incorporate an effective short passing scheme (what the Patriots and Broncos do) so Joe can get rid of the ball before he feels any pressure.

He also has a tendency to develop bad habits from time to time, that he does break after awhile, but because of this tendency, even though Joe isn't a diva, he's still somewhat high maintenence. For this reason, he also needs a QB coach, not a guy moonlighting as one. Again Joe's best seasons (2010 & 2012) were when he had a full-time QB coach (Zorn & Caldwell). This is not a coincidence.

[PolishRifle]

He sure did fall apart didn't he in that SB by putting his team ahead with 2 minutes left and the Giants needing one of the greatest plays ever to win. Your blind hate and Homerism is astounding. You say Manning only cares about himself while our team cares about winning but I'm pretty sure if we add the years he has played since 08 with Joes(minus the injury year) he probably has as many or more wins. And the fact you over look Bradys pocket awareness is hysterical.

Also funny that people want us to have, great wrs, o line, run game, perfect OC and then say Brady doesn't make his wrs better when you basically just said his wrs aren't good. Wouldn't that make Joe overrated too then if he puts up numbers? Also, how can you all ask for that but when people ask for consistency we're now haters when Joe has had all of the above. Until last year he's had a run game, decent wrs and a good o line.

 

I never claimed, that Flacco needs great WRs. I clearly posted "more than one capable WR". The point of my post was, that the list of things needed for Joe to succeed (as posted by PerpetuallyBored) is not asking for much. You were so eager to accuse me of being a homer, that you misread my post.

And no, I'm not overlooking Brady's pocket awareness. I'm just going by, what Ryan Clark said about him.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9250864/ryan-clark-pittsburgh-steelers-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-sees-ghosts

[The Raven]

Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

[PolishRifle]

Once you realize why they are better, then the rest of your post will fall into place. I've been on this forum exactly about a year and this debate has been had in at least 10 threads. There's obviously multiple reasons Joe doesn't get the extra weapons and protection at the expense of the defense. The two biggest ones are that the Organization and the team just isn't going to make the philosophical shift to offense(at most they will look for balance), and the fact that Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

To be honest, to me Peyton and Rodgers are better at QB reliant offenses but they aren't better than Joe period, just different. They all have one ring to me. I don't know how they would fare in our previous offenses so I'll admit I just don't know and leave it at that. I do know Flacco has a chance this season to play in a more balanced passing attack and that we will soon know a lot more about his accuracy,vision, and consistency in comparison to the elite QBs. Last year everyone was saying how Joe would prove he was truly elite and consistent but the offense fell apart so he kinda gets a mulligan. This year he looks to have better weapons, better protection, a passing philosophy that should up his completion percentage, and a overall team philosophy that still keeps a good part of the responsibility off of him and back on the run game and the defense.  

We shall see....

 

I think it's telling, that the Patriots didn't bother adding a ton weapons to Brady's offense and instead are trying to rebuild the great defenses and solid running game they used to have during their 3 SB run. After 2 SB losses, one of which they suffered, when Tom was leading one of the most prolific passing attacks in NFL history, they just wisened up. 

You need a balanced team. Hopefully our defense shows signs of life in the next preseason game and we'll be heading towards that this year.

[PolishRifle]

Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

 

I'm one of the bigger Flacco believers out there, but even I don't think, that Flacco has been consistent in his carreer. You see his performance go up and down all the time. Like in 2011 for example, when he started out the season by looking like a world beater against the Steelers and then couldn't complete half his passes against the freaking Titans.  And then the exact same thing happened at the begining of 2012. Ugh.

I do believe, however, that the system change will bring us more consistent play from Joe and that he's about to have a carreer year. That or I'll be very disapointed.

[5aiah]

I think it's telling, that the Patriots didn't bother adding a ton weapons to Brady's offense and instead are trying to rebuild the great defenses and solid running game they used to have during their 3 SB run. After 2 SB losses, one of which they suffered, when Tom was leading one of the most prolific passing attacks in NFL history, they just wisened up. 

You need a balanced team. Hopefully our defense shows signs of life in the next preseason game and we'll be heading towards that this year.

This is why Brady isn't as good/responsible/independent as Manning or Rodgers. He's often at the helm of sport's most versatile offense with the sport's smartest coach and has only won titles when the defense has shared equal if not more responsibility. When he bore the brunt of responsibility as a player he lost to the Giants twice.

 

 

Impossible to know this, one way or the other, when Joe's constantly lacked what the elite QBs generally have: complete receiving corps with legit, if not elite, starters; solid o-lines that don't have holes in them (our LG since 2011) and schemes that are never described by anyone as being based on the principle of "forcing square pegs into round holes".

 

As for Joe's weaknesses, when under constant duress, his footwork gets sloppy and that impacts everything else about his game.

Philosophically speaking I think it's impossible to know anything, but Flacco's weaknesses aren't just due to pressure or constant duress and the better QBs are able to up their game when being pressured and take advantage of blitzes. He makes horrible reads at times regardless of pressure and just isn't the most mentally sound QB period. I know its easy to blame that on pressure but going back and looking at the all-22 during the heated debates last preseason a lot of it is really just on Joe. The Ravens play calling also reflects the need to sometimes make reads a lot easier for Joe instead of subjecting him to difficult zone reads. 

 

 

Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

I think that too, its actually a given if injuries don't hit us too hard so I don't think this makes you a homer at all. The homers and fanboys are the ones who rage at any mention of Flacco not being up to par in any area or not being the best QB of all time(or something similar) and imply rational Ravens fans aren't fans at all.

 

At the end of the day I think this year is the year it happens. Flacco shuts up all those who bash him for last year. 

[flynismo]

Is it bad that I knew just by the title this was a Flacco thread?

[flynismo]

At the end of the day I think this year is the year it happens. Flacco shuts up all those who bash him for last year. 

People will never shut up about him. Look at our fans, we always complain about something, especially when it comes to him.

[redrum52]

Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

I never claimed, that Flacco needs great WRs. I clearly posted "more than one capable WR". The point of my post was, that the list of things needed for Joe to succeed (as posted by PerpetuallyBored) is not asking for much. You were so eager to accuse me of being a homer, that you misread my post.

And no, I'm not overlooking Brady's pocket awareness. I'm just going by, what Ryan Clark said about him.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9250864/ryan-clark-pittsburgh-steelers-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-sees-ghosts

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

[Ravenslifer]

Will we have a mostly consistent offense for one season for basically the first time in franchise history? I know with Flacco we've been better than we ever were before him, but still, every year we'd have 4-6 games where we didn't even get points on the board till we were close to halfway through the game. Some of that falls on Flacco, some of that on our OCs and of O-line and rest of the offense. But Flacco and offense, for whatever reason, every year they put together a couple of great games, a few good ones, and the rest were mediocre to terrible.

 

 

 

I could see it happening - Flacco is much further along in his development than Shaub was when Kubiak had him.  It's only been one offseason, but I think it's enough time.  Plus, Shaub had one superior weapon in AJ that Joe has never had, but in terms of overall balance I'd take the receivers and tight ends we have this year over any group Shaub ever had.  Plus I think Joe's just a better QB than Shaub in both physical traits and mental toughness.  I really think a big part of the offensive failures lie in the scheme, because in the last 6 years there haven't been many easy reads, easily designed plays, etc. for anybody on offense to succeed like you saw on Kubiak's Houston teams.  A lot will depend on how well the players, Joe in particular, adapt to Kubiak's system during the season, because it's proven - the system works, so it's up to the players to make it work.  The other big thing is player health - we will go nowhere if we have the patchwork offense we had last year.

[The Raven]

The thing that gives me confidence is just the scheme itself. Shorter routes = more completions = higher efficiency = more consistency. It's simple. How could anyone reasonably expect consistency out of an air coryell offense with a poo poo OL and nobodies at WR?

[5aiah]

People will never shut up about him. Look at our fans, we always complain about something, especially when it comes to him.

Ours are some of the most biased,hypocritical and homerific fan bases though and they go overboard one way or the other. Flacco is divisive because of  the "accolades vs talent" national debate but I would say in terms of Ravens Nation you can't even mention someone can throw farther than him without a riot erupting. Even in the city most of the blame for everything goes on the defense these days. Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us, including being let off the hook for last year, Brady would be crucified for something like that.

 

 

Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

Shhh, don't bring the wolves out lol. Good points.

[PolishRifle]

Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

 

Really? I made a post, where I mentioned things like giving Joe just an "average OL" and "capable WRs" and that's already considered a perfect enviroment?

[PolishRifle]

Ours are some of the most biased,hypocritical and homerific fan bases though and they go overboard one way or the other. Flacco is divisive because of  the "accolades vs talent" national debate but I would say in terms of Ravens Nation you can't even mention someone can throw farther than him without a riot erupting. Even in the city most of the blame for everything goes on the defense these days. Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us, including being let off the hook for last year, Brady would be crucified for something like that.

 

 

Shhh, don't bring the wolves out lol. Good points.

 

People will defend their star players no matter what. Especially when it come to the QB position. Heck, there were plenty of Pats fans ready to blame Wes for his dropped pass in the SB, which I thought Brady just missed (a matter of opinion I guess). You would've found a ton of Texans fans in 2012 trying to convince you how much better Matt Schaub is than Flacco, which is flatout wrong (not really a matter of opinion anymore). Even, if Joe had a down year (and that is undeniable), he was also very far from being the worst player on offense. I would argue, that we wouldn't even have that 8-8 record without him making some plays, while constantly escaping pressure. So alot of the people, who are defending Joe, do actually have a point.

[flynismo]

Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

[PolishRifle]

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

Start Tyrod!

[SecretAgentMan]

Start Tyrod!

Dude. Weining = Winning

[PolishRifle]

Dude. Weining = Winning

 

Way to go and give people dumb ideas...atleast you spelled Wenning wrong. +1

[SecretAgentMan]

Way to go and give people dumb ideas...atleast you spelled Wenning wrong. +1

Yup. That was totally intentional haha

[Tank 92]

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

 

 

pessimistic parasites............... well played fly!

[Tank 92]

Will it finally happen? AGAIN?

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Will we have a mostly consistent offense for one season for basically the first time in franchise history? I know with Flacco we've been better than we ever were before him, but still, every year we'd have 4-6 games where we didn't even get points on the board till we were close to halfway through the game. Some of that falls on Flacco, some of that on our OCs and of O-line and rest of the offense. But Flacco and offense, for whatever reason, every year they put together a couple of great games, a few good ones, and the rest were mediocre to terrible.

 

I want to see 12+ weeks where we score more than 20 points. I want Flacco to hit receivers on make-able passes. When he plays well, I don't want the rest of the team to let him down. 

 

A lot has been made about Flacco over 6 years, and while it's said every year that "this is his breakout year", here I am with something similar.

 

I think this year will define him as who he is going to be the rest of his career...

 

Is he the player who out-dueled Luck, Manning, Brady and Kapernick on his way to tying Montana's 11/0 td/int record in the post season while winning the Super Bowl? Or is he the Afc's Eli Manning.

 

To be fair, even if he is Eli Manning, I'll take it. I love Flacco, I Love who he is and I'll always support him. But, I'm done making excuses for him. I know that there are many valid reasons out there for why it isn't all his fault why he struggles at times, but at some point the true Elite qbs rise above the excuses and cirumstances. Is Joe good, is he elite? Lucky? I think it's fair to say this year is a true measure of what to expect the rest of his career. I'll be there rooting for him every step of the way. I believe he's special and he'll rise up again to show his critics that those 4 games weren't a fluke. Time will tell if I'm right.

 

I think that Flacco will have a good year,but I don't think this will be the big type of break out year that's he truly capable of and I'm on the fence about whether or not this year will define who he will be for the rest of his career.On one hand,I get what you're saying about wanting to see him perform at the level we saw in that post season run every time he steps on the field,but when I look at our offensive roster,I'm not sure if we have the supporting cast for that.And that doesn't meant that Flacco needs a whole lot of perfect conditions in order for him to succeed.He just needs the same conditions Brady,Rodgers and Manning needed to have big/breakthrough years.We need better talent at the WR position if we want to see that kind of play.Our Wr corp is not as good as the 07 patriots when Brady broke through,it's not close to the 2011 weapons Rodgers had around him and it's far from what Peyton had in Indy and what he's working with in Denver.Why is it an excuse when we say Flacco needs stud WR's but it's not held against those three QB's who are considered the elite?They need playmakers around them just as much as Joe needs them around him.Our WR corp for this year is mediocre outside of Torrey Smith.The only way our offense becomes consistent and Joe improves is if this new system works out.If that happens and Flacco has a year on par with those top 3 guys stat wise without having the same caliber surrounding cast,the you can legitimately call him the best QB in the league!

[redrum52]

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

Point me in the direction of the defense won the SB talk so I can get a few laughs...

 

 

 

 

even though, technically they did by getting the stop.

[5aiah]

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

I've only been here a year but I've never seen one post saying the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all, just Ravens fans who are pushing back against the notion that the D had to be dragged through the playoffs by Flacco and the offense, I've even been on that side of the debate. I've seen claims Flacco was the reason for it all though. 

 

Jacoby should have been co-MVP but rarely will you ever hear that here or in Baltimore. In fact you're more likely to hear that outside in general football discussion by people who aren't fans.

 

There aren't enough fans who can be objective like I see in other fan bases. Our's is half full of haters who nitpick every little thing and excuse themselves because they are "hardcore fans", and on this particular site warranted a warning about from mods/veteran posters when I first got here. The other half is the other extreme who blindly and vehemently defend anything Ravens while making themselves(and Ravens fans in general) look like idiots. The Rice PR fiasco was a shining example of this. Nearly everyone in the country(Rice's own words and actions during the make up attempt allude to it as well) agrees it was badly done the first time around, but a select group had to defend it and make it seem like it was perfectly done or exactly what the situation called for.

 

Again terms like "pessimistic parasite" are just words used by the extreme parts of the fan base for people who don't share their view. You're making my point.....

 

 

You would've found a ton of Texans fans in 2012 trying to convince you how much better Matt Schaub is than Flacco, which is flatout wrong (not really a matter of opinion anymore). 

I remember these people getting laughed at, not many respected Schaub even before his meltdown and he was even made fun of by people in their own fan base for being a comparable QB to TJ Yates in the playoffs.

[flynismo]

Point me in the direction of the defense won the SB talk so I can get a few laughs...

 

 

 

 

even though, technically they did by getting the stop.

Sorry for being lazy, on mobile right now, but that argument went on for a few months after the SB....no surprise, but people had things to complain about minutes after we win a SB!

[flynismo]

I've only been here a year but I've never seen one post saying the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all, just Ravens fans who are pushing back against the notion that the D had to be dragged through the playoffs by Flacco and the offense, I've even been on that side of the debate. I've seen claims Flacco was the reason for it all though. 

 

Jacoby should have been co-MVP but rarely will you ever hear that here or in Baltimore. In fact you're more likely to hear that outside in general football discussion by people who aren't fans.

 

There aren't enough fans who can be objective like I see in other fan bases. Our's is half full of haters who nitpick every little thing and excuse themselves because they are "hardcore fans", and on this particular site warranted a warning about from mods/veteran posters when I first got here. The other half is the other extreme who blindly and vehemently defend anything Ravens while making themselves(and Ravens fans in general) look like idiots. The Rice PR fiasco was a shining example of this. Nearly everyone in the country(Rice's own words and actions during the make up attempt allude to it as well) agrees it was badly done the first time around, but a select group had to defend it and make it seem like it was perfectly done or exactly what the situation called for.

 

Again terms like "pessimistic parasite" are just words used by the extreme parts of the fan base for people who don't share their view. You're making my point.....

 

 

I remember these people getting laughed at, not many respected Schaub even before his meltdown and he was even made fun of by people in their own fan base for being a comparable QB to TJ Yates in the playoffs.

 

Let me guess...you are one of the rare "truly objective" fans?

 

If you were, you would know what a pessimistic parasite is, and that it isn't just something "the blind homers" say.

[flynismo]

Dude. Weining = Winning

Weining to Boulden?