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3-4ravdef509

Will it finally happen?

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Will we have a mostly consistent offense for one season for basically the first time in franchise history? I know with Flacco we've been better than we ever were before him, but still, every year we'd have 4-6 games where we didn't even get points on the board till we were close to halfway through the game. Some of that falls on Flacco, some of that on our OCs and of O-line and rest of the offense. But Flacco and offense, for whatever reason, every year they put together a couple of great games, a few good ones, and the rest were mediocre to terrible.

 

I want to see 12+ weeks where we score more than 20 points. I want Flacco to hit receivers on make-able passes. When he plays well, I don't want the rest of the team to let him down. 

 

A lot has been made about Flacco over 6 years, and while it's said every year that "this is his breakout year", here I am with something similar.

 

I think this year will define him as who he is going to be the rest of his career...

 

Is he the player who out-dueled Luck, Manning, Brady and Kapernick on his way to tying Montana's 11/0 td/int record in the post season while winning the Super Bowl? Or is he the Afc's Eli Manning.

 

To be fair, even if he is Eli Manning, I'll take it. I love Flacco, I Love who he is and I'll always support him. But, I'm done making excuses for him. I know that there are many valid reasons out there for why it isn't all his fault why he struggles at times, but at some point the true Elite qbs rise above the excuses and cirumstances. Is Joe good, is he elite? Lucky? I think it's fair to say this year is a true measure of what to expect the rest of his career. I'll be there rooting for him every step of the way. I believe he's special and he'll rise up again to show his critics that those 4 games weren't a fluke. Time will tell if I'm right.

Edited by 3-4ravdef509
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I have a feeling Flacco will improve his game and this is the year he enters Peyton Manning eliteness. I'd be disappointed if he doesn't throw for 50+ tds and we dont go undefeated. 

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Nothing is consistent with Flacco. I like the guy. But ive learned not to get my expectations high with him.

Everything youve said has been said before. I do think the offense is good for Flacco. Lots of playactions. Something we didnt see alot of last year.

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I have a feeling Flacco will improve his game and this is the year he enters Peyton Manning eliteness. I'd be disappointed if he doesn't throw for 50+ tds and we dont go undefeated. 

 

Can't tell if you're kidding or not....hopefully you are

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Can't tell if you're kidding or not....hopefully you are

Does it sound like I'm kidding? This is Ravens football!!

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Nothing is consistent with Flacco. I like the guy. But ive learned not to get my expectations high with him.

Everything youve said has been said before. I do think the offense is good for Flacco. Lots of playactions. Something we didnt see alot of last year.

 

That's the frustrating reality. It's especially tough because he plays badly enough to make you wonder but sometimes plays so well in a game or makes such an incredible throw/play you swear he's either got MPD or a stunt double in there half the time.

 

To me the quicker throws and plays that are actually designed to get receivers open will help more than anything.

Edited by 3-4ravdef509
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Does it sound like I'm kidding? This is Ravens football!!

 

lol. Nice enthusiasm. 

 

I'm more expecting something in the normal realm of his history. Like 28 tds, 12 ints and hopefully 4200 yards. 

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I do not think that Joe has a hidden Payton Manning. BUT I believe we could well see him as the 3rd or 4th best QB this year. This offense will allow him to grow into all of his promised ability that we have glimpsed now and then. It will be exciting to watch Ravens football this year. I am not even worried about our depth on the defense. I am set to enjoy a good year of football well into January (and hopefully Feb. too). Go Ravens!!

Edited by ravens533
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I expect Flacco to hit above .300 while averaging 80% or better from the line. Finals MVP.

very possible. i expect nothing less

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I agree with you. A system change is a huge deal. Sometimes great players can get buried under a bad playbook, that doesn't fit them. I always thought that this is the case with Joe.

I'll be okay, if he's just the AFC version of Eli, because Eli is still good enough to win Superbowls and that's what matters the most to me, see my team win and not just one player (aka Peyton's carreer), but I definetly wouldn't give up on Joe being truely elite just yet. This season will give us that answer imho. 

Joe doesn't have elite weapons around him, but it's still the most talented and deepest group of receivers and tight ends he ever had, the OL is good and the OC is legit (for the first time in Joe's carreer, imho). If he can't have atleast 12 good games this year instead of the rollercoaster ride he usually sends us on, he never will. I personaly, being an optimist and Flacco fan, expect a huge carreer year for Joe. 

Edited by PolishRifle
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30 td no more than 10 int and 4500 yds passing, this is my xmas wishhhhhhhhhhhh

Would be pretty happry with this statline.

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Just get us back to the playoffs so playoff Flacco shows up

This. Once we are in I anyways think we will win

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In the Air Coryell, the QB is supposed to go with his deep reads first most of the time. To do this, the team needs at least 2 deep threat WRs and an offensive line that can buy enough time for the 2 deep reads to get downfield--about 3+ seconds.

Since 2011, Joe's usually only had 1 deep threat (Torrey) and also a hole at LG (Grubbs & Osemele's injuries, Grubbs leaving as a FA) and last year he also had the worst center in the league too.

The best way you counter having a bad o-line/not enough deep threats in the AC is by running the ball a lot and setting up various screens. Except for last year, the Ravens have been able to run the ball, but they haven't had a screen game since Mason was here (and even then, it wasn't great). Another way you counter the blitz in the AC is with quick comeback routes, like the back shoulder fades that Caldwell introduced during the 2012 SB run that allowed Boldin to dominate. Those comeback routes also disappeared when Mason left, reappeared briefly in the 2012 playoffs, only to vanish again when Boldin was traded.

Except for the 2012 playoffs when Torrey and Jacoby were the deep threats and Boldn was moved to the slot to work mainly underneath with Pitta and Rice, Joe has not had a complete receiving corp. So, he has not been running the full version of the AC. Since 2011, he's been running (mostly) a stripped down, watered down, vanilla-fied version of it. That's why he's constantly had to make really difficult and risky throws, threading the ball through the needle to receivers who weren't really open. If you watched the preseason game against San Fran, you saw the difference in how open the receivers were. Kubiak has a full complement of weapons, so nothing has been watered down.

Still, Flacco has had games were he's gotten into the bad habit of not setting his feet properly before throwing the ball (Stafford has the same issue, even worse) and that has hurt Joe's production and numbers. And last year he also started staring down his receivers more, though that was mainly due to being under constant seige because our o-line was just that awful--only Miami's was worse.

 

Basically, to bring back 2012 SB mvp Joe, you need to do the following:

1) fix the o-line, doesn't have to be top 10, especially with the WCO but it can't be bottom 3 either like last year's.

2) give Joe a full complement of weapons so he can spread the ball around, that way he won't lock in (and start staring down) one guy. This also prevents that one guy from being triple teamed all game.

3) fix Joe's footwork--Kubiak's method of linking the QB's reads in with his footwork is perfect for Joe.

4) run the ball effectively as we (still) don't have that true #1 WR which is all but a requirement to have a pass heavy offense that still works against strong defenses.

5) don't force Joe to always stay in the pocket, he's not a strict drop back pocket passer, more of a bootleg type like Elway, Favre, Rodgers and Roethlisberger.

6) keep Joe out of 3rd and long--in the past 2 years the QB who's led the league in 3rd and long pass attempts is Joe Flacco.

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In the Air Coryell, the QB is supposed to go with his deep reads first most of the time. To do this, the team needs at least 2 deep threat WRs and an offensive line that can buy enough time for the 2 deep reads to get downfield--about 3+ seconds.

Since 2011, Joe's usually only had 1 deep threat (Torrey) and also a hole at LG (Grubbs & Osemele's injuries, Grubbs leaving as a FA) and last year he also had the worst center in the league too.

The best way you counter having a bad o-line/not enough deep threats in the AC is by running the ball a lot and setting up various screens. Except for last year, the Ravens have been able to run the ball, but they haven't had a screen game since Mason was here (and even then, it wasn't great). Another way you counter the blitz in the AC is with quick comeback routes, like the back shoulder fades that Caldwell introduced during the 2012 SB run that allowed Boldin to dominate. Those comeback routes also disappeared when Mason left, reappeared briefly in the 2012 playoffs, only to vanish again when Boldin was traded.

Except for the 2012 playoffs when Torrey and Jacoby were the deep threats and Boldn was moved to the slot to work mainly underneath with Pitta and Rice, Joe has not had a complete receiving corp. So, he has not been running the full version of the AC. Since 2011, he's been running (mostly) a stripped down, watered down, vanilla-fied version of it. That's why he's constantly had to make really difficult and risky throws, threading the ball through the needle to receivers who weren't really open. If you watched the preseason game against San Fran, you saw the difference in how open the receivers were. Kubiak has a full complement of weapons, so nothing has been watered down.

Still, Flacco has had games were he's gotten into the bad habit of not setting his feet properly before throwing the ball (Stafford has the same issue, even worse) and that has hurt Joe's production and numbers. And last year he also started staring down his receivers more, though that was mainly due to being under constant seige because our o-line was just that awful--only Miami's was worse.

Basically, to bring back 2012 SB mvp Joe, you need to do the following:

1) fix the o-line, doesn't have to be top 10, especially with the WCO but it can't be bottom 3 either like last year's.

2) give Joe a full complement of weapons so he can spread the ball around, that way he won't lock in (and start staring down) one guy. This also prevents that one guy from being triple teamed all game.

3) fix Joe's footwork--Kubiak's method of linking the QB's reads in with his footwork is perfect for Joe.

4) run the ball effectively as we (still) don't have that true #1 WR which is all but a requirement to have a pass heavy offense that still works against strong defenses.

5) don't force Joe to always stay in the pocket, he's not a strict drop back pocket passer, more of a bootleg type like Elway, Favre, Rodgers and Roethlisberger.

6) keep Joe out of 3rd and long--in the past 2 years the QB who's led the league in 3rd and long pass attempts is Joe Flacco.

Yikes...just reading that makes me shiver. Seems like a lot that we have to give/do for Joe.

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Yikes...just reading that makes me shiver. Seems like a lot that we have to give/do for Joe.

 

No more than what is necessary for any other QB to thrive.

Don't buy into the media driven hype that Brady or Peyton can turn mediocre receivers into Pro Bowlers. That's never been true, for them or any other QB. None of them have ever had a poorly constructed and executed scheme, a historically bad running game, one of the worst o-lines in the league and a MASH unit/old folks home of a receiver corp in the same season

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Your last sentence is true. Dealing with no running game and no protection would kill any QBs production. Therefore I can only see the offense being more consistent this year.

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Yikes...just reading that makes me shiver. Seems like a lot that we have to give/do for Joe.

 

Really? That post list off things like an average OL, more than one capable receiver, giving Joe freedom to make plays and a good running game. Yeah, that's really too much to ask for, we're the Ravens after all.

 

No more than what is necessary for any other QB to thrive.

Don't buy into the media driven hype that Brady or Peyton can turn mediocre receivers into Pro Bowlers. That's never been true, for them or any other QB. None of them have ever had a poorly constructed and executed scheme, a historically bad running game, one of the worst o-lines in the league and a MASH unit/old folks home of a receiver corp in the same season

 

Brady had consistently one of the best OLs in the league. That's why everyone claims that Tom "doesn't have weapons", because everyone pays attention to "sexy" positions like WRs and doesn't give the dudes up front their credit. 

It's eery to watch Brady stand perfect still like statue in the pocket and whenever a team does manage to get pressure on him (like the Giants for example) his game starts to fall apart (like with most QBs really).

Edited by PolishRifle
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Really? That post list off things like an average OL, more than one capable receiver, giving Joe freedom to make plays and a good running game. Yeah, that's really too much to ask for, we're the Ravens after all.

Brady had consistently one of the best OLs in the league. That's why everyone claims that Tom "doesn't have weapons", because everyone pays attention to "sexy" positions like WRs and doesn't give the dudes up front their credit.

It's eery to watch Brady stand perfect still like statue in the pocket and whenever a team does manage to get pressure on him (like the Giants for example) his game starts to fall apart (like with most QBs really).

He sure did fall apart didn't he in that SB by putting his team ahead with 2 minutes left and the Giants needing one of the greatest plays ever to win. Your blind hate and Homerism is astounding. You say Manning only cares about himself while our team cares about winning but I'm pretty sure if we add the years he has played since 08 with Joes(minus the injury year) he probably has as many or more wins. And the fact you over look Bradys pocket awareness is hysterical.

Also funny that people want us to have, great wrs, o line, run game, perfect OC and then say Brady doesn't make his wrs better when you basically just said his wrs aren't good. Wouldn't that make Joe overrated too then if he puts up numbers? Also, how can you all ask for that but when people ask for consistency we're now haters when Joe has had all of the above. Until last year he's had a run game, decent wrs and a good o line.

Edited by redrum52
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No more than what is necessary for any other QB to thrive.

Don't buy into the media driven hype that Brady or Peyton can turn mediocre receivers into Pro Bowlers. That's never been true, for them or any other QB. None of them have ever had a poorly constructed and executed scheme, a historically bad running game, one of the worst o-lines in the league and a MASH unit/old folks home of a receiver corp in the same season.

To an extent, perhaps. I do, however, think Manning and Rodgers make mediocre or average receivers much better. Dont think many can really disagree there.

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No. Year after year our offense is either awful or average at best, our Super Bowl postseason is an anomaly.

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No. Year after year our offense is either awful or average at best, our Super Bowl postseason is an anomaly.

"You know you done (tv edit)<messed> up right?"

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"You know you done (tv edit)<messed> up right?"

 

You guys are capable enough to handle a few observations.

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You guys are capable enough to handle a few observations.

Manning and Brady are being downplayed to boost Joe. Are you willing to bet on this?

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Manning and Brady are being downplayed to boost Joe. Are you willing to bet on this?

 

I gave my opinion on the offense, we'll improve but to average at best. I'll pass on doing the Manning/Brady dance again.

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I gave my opinion on the offense, we'll improve but to average at best. I'll pass on doing the Manning/Brady dance again.

Depending on your averages range I say anything under top 15 is a disappointment. I think they finish above average, with the potential of being a top 10 unit.

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Depending on your averages range I say anything under top 15 is a disappointment. I think they finish above average, with the potential of being a top 10 unit.

 

I will be pleasantly surprised if our offense lands around the top 10 mark, but less impressed if it's being carried by the ground game.

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To an extent, perhaps. I do, however, think Manning and Rodgers make mediocre or average receivers much better. Dont think many can really disagree there.

 

Peyton had at the beginning of his career, Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James, two HoF caliber players with James being an excellent pass-catching RB. Then the Colts added Reggie Wayne, another HoF caliber WR.

 

Peyton had 8 years of Harrison's prime (1999 - 2006), 7 years of James' prime (1999 - 2005), and 8 years of Wayne's prime (2003 - 2010) with 3 to 4 years of overlap between the three players (2003 - 2006). He also had Marshal Faulk for Peyton's rookie year with Faulk being one of the best pass catching RBs of all time.

 

Peyton deserves some credit for executing that offense to the high degree that he does, but part of the reason he's given a chance to execute it is because he's had HoF talent around him, which also serves to open things up for other quality players like Stokely, Clark, Garcon, Gonzales and Collie Because if you're doubling Wayne and Harrison then you're not doubling Clark or Stokely, for example, and those 2 are good enough to beat single coverage.

 

Same is true for Rodgers as Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones & Randall Cobb have all been legit #1 or #2 WRs with Jermichael Finley as a solid TE (before his neck injury). So, Rodgers has never been hurting for starting caliber talent, not with Jennings once regarded as a top 10 WR, Nelson (who should be seen as a top 10 talent) and Cobb who looks like he has that potential. And once again, that type of talent takes the pressure off lesser talented players, allowing them to be more productive.

 

Both Peyton and Rodgers are better than Joe. Let's make that clear.

 

Please don't misunderstand my point, which is that even the elite QBs need enough talent around them to be highly productive, so they can spread the ball around. It's really simple math (and common sense). How is a QB supposed to throw for 30 TDs if he only has 2 guys he can rely on? Only way that happens is if one guy gets 10 TDs while the other 20, or if both get 15. But how often does that happen? (answer: never). What these QBs usually do is throw 10 TDs to one guy, 7 to another, 6 to a third, then 2 or 3 TDs to several other guys with a few more guys catching a TD or two.

 

You can't do that without legit starters AND quality depth behind them (not guys who are on the team solely because they play special teams)

 

That's why I said that Joe has often lacked legit starters and/or quality depth at receiver. The only time he's had a complete receiving corp was 2010 with Mason, Boldin, Houshmenzadeh, and Heap (but no depth behind them other than rookies Pitta and Dickson--fortunately those 4 stayed healthy that year) and the 2012 playoff run with Anquan, Torrey, Jacoby and Dennis with Tandon, Deonte and Dickson in reserve. Not coincidentally, 2010 has been Flacco's best regular season performance while the 4 game stretch during the 2012 playoffs has been the best performance of his career.

It also helped greatly having a solid o-line for both those times.

 

So, what does Joe finally (appear) to have this year? Solid O-line (but poor depth) and a complete receiving corp with excellent depth. And as a bonus, he has a proven, modern scheme comparable to what the rest of the league, including the elite 4 QBs, uses.

Edited by PerpetuallyBored74
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To an extent, perhaps. I do, however, think Manning and Rodgers make mediocre or average receivers much better. Dont think many can really disagree there.

1. Absolutely, their abilities and leadership allow them to get the most out of some receivers who then go on to other teams and aren't as motivated or used as well due to the difference in QB. 

 

2. Where do you think you are bro? Lmao.

Edited by 5aiah
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Both Peyton and Rodgers are better than Joe. Let's make that clear.

Once you realize why they are better, then the rest of your post will fall into place. I've been on this forum exactly about a year and this debate has been had in at least 10 threads. There's obviously multiple reasons Joe doesn't get the extra weapons and protection at the expense of the defense. The two biggest ones are that the Organization and the team just isn't going to make the philosophical shift to offense(at most they will look for balance), and the fact that Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

To be honest, to me Peyton and Rodgers are better at QB reliant offenses but they aren't better than Joe period, just different. They all have one ring to me. I don't know how they would fare in our previous offenses so I'll admit I just don't know and leave it at that. I do know Flacco has a chance this season to play in a more balanced passing attack and that we will soon know a lot more about his accuracy,vision, and consistency in comparison to the elite QBs. Last year everyone was saying how Joe would prove he was truly elite and consistent but the offense fell apart so he kinda gets a mulligan. This year he looks to have better weapons, better protection, a passing philosophy that should up his completion percentage, and a overall team philosophy that still keeps a good part of the responsibility off of him and back on the run game and the defense.  

We shall see....

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Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

Impossible to know this, one way or the other, when Joe's constantly lacked what the elite QBs generally have: complete receiving corps with legit, if not elite, starters; solid o-lines that don't have holes in them (our LG since 2011) and schemes that are never described by anyone as being based on the principle of "forcing square pegs into round holes".

 

It is somewhat telling that when Joe, on rare occassion, has had a complete receiving corp, solid o-line, and workable scheme that he's been very good, if not sensational.

 

As for Joe's weaknesses, when under constant duress, his footwork gets sloppy and that impacts everything else about his game. One way to counter this is to allow him to leave the pocket at his discretion or on designed rollouts. Another way is to incorporate an effective short passing scheme (what the Patriots and Broncos do) so Joe can get rid of the ball before he feels any pressure.

He also has a tendency to develop bad habits from time to time, that he does break after awhile, but because of this tendency, even though Joe isn't a diva, he's still somewhat high maintenence. For this reason, he also needs a QB coach, not a guy moonlighting as one. Again Joe's best seasons (2010 & 2012) were when he had a full-time QB coach (Zorn & Caldwell). This is not a coincidence.

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He sure did fall apart didn't he in that SB by putting his team ahead with 2 minutes left and the Giants needing one of the greatest plays ever to win. Your blind hate and Homerism is astounding. You say Manning only cares about himself while our team cares about winning but I'm pretty sure if we add the years he has played since 08 with Joes(minus the injury year) he probably has as many or more wins. And the fact you over look Bradys pocket awareness is hysterical.

Also funny that people want us to have, great wrs, o line, run game, perfect OC and then say Brady doesn't make his wrs better when you basically just said his wrs aren't good. Wouldn't that make Joe overrated too then if he puts up numbers? Also, how can you all ask for that but when people ask for consistency we're now haters when Joe has had all of the above. Until last year he's had a run game, decent wrs and a good o line.

 

I never claimed, that Flacco needs great WRs. I clearly posted "more than one capable WR". The point of my post was, that the list of things needed for Joe to succeed (as posted by PerpetuallyBored) is not asking for much. You were so eager to accuse me of being a homer, that you misread my post.

And no, I'm not overlooking Brady's pocket awareness. I'm just going by, what Ryan Clark said about him.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9250864/ryan-clark-pittsburgh-steelers-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-sees-ghosts

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Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

Edited by The Raven
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Once you realize why they are better, then the rest of your post will fall into place. I've been on this forum exactly about a year and this debate has been had in at least 10 threads. There's obviously multiple reasons Joe doesn't get the extra weapons and protection at the expense of the defense. The two biggest ones are that the Organization and the team just isn't going to make the philosophical shift to offense(at most they will look for balance), and the fact that Flacco's skills/weaknesses don't really translate to the type of offenses you allude to nor do his skills need to. It's too big a responsibility for someone with his weaknesses(if you believe he has any) to possibly score 35 points a game mainly off the passing game because the defense can't stop anyone.

 

To be honest, to me Peyton and Rodgers are better at QB reliant offenses but they aren't better than Joe period, just different. They all have one ring to me. I don't know how they would fare in our previous offenses so I'll admit I just don't know and leave it at that. I do know Flacco has a chance this season to play in a more balanced passing attack and that we will soon know a lot more about his accuracy,vision, and consistency in comparison to the elite QBs. Last year everyone was saying how Joe would prove he was truly elite and consistent but the offense fell apart so he kinda gets a mulligan. This year he looks to have better weapons, better protection, a passing philosophy that should up his completion percentage, and a overall team philosophy that still keeps a good part of the responsibility off of him and back on the run game and the defense.  

We shall see....

 

I think it's telling, that the Patriots didn't bother adding a ton weapons to Brady's offense and instead are trying to rebuild the great defenses and solid running game they used to have during their 3 SB run. After 2 SB losses, one of which they suffered, when Tom was leading one of the most prolific passing attacks in NFL history, they just wisened up. 

You need a balanced team. Hopefully our defense shows signs of life in the next preseason game and we'll be heading towards that this year.

Edited by PolishRifle
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Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

 

I'm one of the bigger Flacco believers out there, but even I don't think, that Flacco has been consistent in his carreer. You see his performance go up and down all the time. Like in 2011 for example, when he started out the season by looking like a world beater against the Steelers and then couldn't complete half his passes against the freaking Titans. -_- And then the exact same thing happened at the begining of 2012. Ugh.

I do believe, however, that the system change will bring us more consistent play from Joe and that he's about to have a carreer year. That or I'll be very disapointed.

Edited by PolishRifle
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I think it's telling, that the Patriots didn't bother adding a ton weapons to Brady's offense and instead are trying to rebuild the great defenses and solid running game they used to have during their 3 SB run. After 2 SB losses, one of which they suffered, when Tom was leading one of the most prolific passing attacks in NFL history, they just wisened up. 

You need a balanced team. Hopefully our defense shows signs of life in the next preseason game and we'll be heading towards that this year.

This is why Brady isn't as good/responsible/independent as Manning or Rodgers. He's often at the helm of sport's most versatile offense with the sport's smartest coach and has only won titles when the defense has shared equal if not more responsibility. When he bore the brunt of responsibility as a player he lost to the Giants twice.

 

 

Impossible to know this, one way or the other, when Joe's constantly lacked what the elite QBs generally have: complete receiving corps with legit, if not elite, starters; solid o-lines that don't have holes in them (our LG since 2011) and schemes that are never described by anyone as being based on the principle of "forcing square pegs into round holes".

 

As for Joe's weaknesses, when under constant duress, his footwork gets sloppy and that impacts everything else about his game.

Philosophically speaking I think it's impossible to know anything, but Flacco's weaknesses aren't just due to pressure or constant duress and the better QBs are able to up their game when being pressured and take advantage of blitzes. He makes horrible reads at times regardless of pressure and just isn't the most mentally sound QB period. I know its easy to blame that on pressure but going back and looking at the all-22 during the heated debates last preseason a lot of it is really just on Joe. The Ravens play calling also reflects the need to sometimes make reads a lot easier for Joe instead of subjecting him to difficult zone reads. 

 

 

Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

I think that too, its actually a given if injuries don't hit us too hard so I don't think this makes you a homer at all. The homers and fanboys are the ones who rage at any mention of Flacco not being up to par in any area or not being the best QB of all time(or something similar) and imply rational Ravens fans aren't fans at all.

 

At the end of the day I think this year is the year it happens. Flacco shuts up all those who bash him for last year. 

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At the end of the day I think this year is the year it happens. Flacco shuts up all those who bash him for last year. 

People will never shut up about him. Look at our fans, we always complain about something, especially when it comes to him.

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Will it happen? Well, I hope so? We won't know until January. 

 

I do think Flacco plays consistently this season. Call me a homer or a Flacco fanboy if you want, but I think Kubiak's scheme and coaching will make the offense more consistent. 

Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

I never claimed, that Flacco needs great WRs. I clearly posted "more than one capable WR". The point of my post was, that the list of things needed for Joe to succeed (as posted by PerpetuallyBored) is not asking for much. You were so eager to accuse me of being a homer, that you misread my post.

And no, I'm not overlooking Brady's pocket awareness. I'm just going by, what Ryan Clark said about him.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/9250864/ryan-clark-pittsburgh-steelers-tom-brady-new-england-patriots-sees-ghosts

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

Edited by redrum52
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Will we have a mostly consistent offense for one season for basically the first time in franchise history? I know with Flacco we've been better than we ever were before him, but still, every year we'd have 4-6 games where we didn't even get points on the board till we were close to halfway through the game. Some of that falls on Flacco, some of that on our OCs and of O-line and rest of the offense. But Flacco and offense, for whatever reason, every year they put together a couple of great games, a few good ones, and the rest were mediocre to terrible.

 

 

 

I could see it happening - Flacco is much further along in his development than Shaub was when Kubiak had him.  It's only been one offseason, but I think it's enough time.  Plus, Shaub had one superior weapon in AJ that Joe has never had, but in terms of overall balance I'd take the receivers and tight ends we have this year over any group Shaub ever had.  Plus I think Joe's just a better QB than Shaub in both physical traits and mental toughness.  I really think a big part of the offensive failures lie in the scheme, because in the last 6 years there haven't been many easy reads, easily designed plays, etc. for anybody on offense to succeed like you saw on Kubiak's Houston teams.  A lot will depend on how well the players, Joe in particular, adapt to Kubiak's system during the season, because it's proven - the system works, so it's up to the players to make it work.  The other big thing is player health - we will go nowhere if we have the patchwork offense we had last year.

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The thing that gives me confidence is just the scheme itself. Shorter routes = more completions = higher efficiency = more consistency. It's simple. How could anyone reasonably expect consistency out of an air coryell offense with a poo poo OL and nobodies at WR?

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People will never shut up about him. Look at our fans, we always complain about something, especially when it comes to him.

Ours are some of the most biased,hypocritical and homerific fan bases though and they go overboard one way or the other. Flacco is divisive because of  the "accolades vs talent" national debate but I would say in terms of Ravens Nation you can't even mention someone can throw farther than him without a riot erupting. Even in the city most of the blame for everything goes on the defense these days. Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us, including being let off the hook for last year, Brady would be crucified for something like that.

 

 

Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

Shhh, don't bring the wolves out lol. Good points.

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Consistency is something we all hope for and have yet to see, but I agree with you on Kubiak's scheme helping the offense.  I doubt anyone disagrees with that.

Didn't misread.  My point was if most qbs had that perfect environment, most would shine.  Also, just going by what a player says?  If that's the case, didn't Joe's own teammate(Ed Reed) question him?

 

By the way, I enjoy watching Brady lose Super Bowls as much as the next guy, but you can't blame him for those losses.  Samuel catches that pick, game over.  Welker holds onto that pass, GAME OVER.  We still hear about the Evans drop, Boldin drop and Housh drop.  If the defense gave up that SB to San Fran we would hear how they gave up the lead.  Can't go both ways.  The only possible argument to have is maybe they should've scored more points earlier, but that Giants pass rush was serious.

 

Really? I made a post, where I mentioned things like giving Joe just an "average OL" and "capable WRs" and that's already considered a perfect enviroment?

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Ours are some of the most biased,hypocritical and homerific fan bases though and they go overboard one way or the other. Flacco is divisive because of  the "accolades vs talent" national debate but I would say in terms of Ravens Nation you can't even mention someone can throw farther than him without a riot erupting. Even in the city most of the blame for everything goes on the defense these days. Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us, including being let off the hook for last year, Brady would be crucified for something like that.

 

 

Shhh, don't bring the wolves out lol. Good points.

 

People will defend their star players no matter what. Especially when it come to the QB position. Heck, there were plenty of Pats fans ready to blame Wes for his dropped pass in the SB, which I thought Brady just missed (a matter of opinion I guess). You would've found a ton of Texans fans in 2012 trying to convince you how much better Matt Schaub is than Flacco, which is flatout wrong (not really a matter of opinion anymore). Even, if Joe had a down year (and that is undeniable), he was also very far from being the worst player on offense. I would argue, that we wouldn't even have that 8-8 record without him making some plays, while constantly escaping pressure. So alot of the people, who are defending Joe, do actually have a point.

Edited by PolishRifle
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Flacco gets more than a fair shake with us

Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

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Umm...no. Not even remotely close. Just look at all the people here who tried to say the defense and Ray Lewis is the reason we won it all. If somebody wants to say JJ should have been co-MVP of that game, I say sure, why not. Just don't insult our intelligence and say it was the defense.

We have way too many fans who masquerade as being "objective", and hide behind "homer" and "hater" labels, but in reality they are just pessimistic parasites.

Start Tyrod!

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