Tyrod Taylor

[arnie_uk]

I can form an argument when its actually an argument with 2 sides. Tyrod Taylor is not a good qb there isn't another side in that

[arnie_uk]

There are the top 3 : Peyton, Rodgers and Brady. No one has ever claimed he was better than any of them. I've seen their early career numbers compared to Flacco's when certain posters are lamenting how horrible Flacco is - but I've never seen anyone claim he was better. After those top 3 it is pure conjecture and opinion as to who is better than who. No one has separated from the pack.

I've seen it said that Peyton and Brady would not have survived the AFCN and had the durability of Flacco. I've seen it said that Flacco fits our team better than those top 3. But no one has made the claim he is better overall.

Want to try again?

he actually has been by many, but what has flacco got to do with tyrod as a backup?

[ravensdfan]

You mean like when Flacco is compared to people who are better than him?

Sorry, said to be better than qbs better than him.

There are the top 3 : Peyton, Rodgers and Brady. No one has ever claimed he was better than any of them. I've seen their early career numbers compared to Flacco's when certain posters are lamenting how horrible Flacco is - but I've never seen anyone claim he was better. After those top 3 it is pure conjecture and opinion as to who is better than who. No one has separated from the pack.

 

I've seen it said that Peyton and Brady would not have survived the AFCN and had the durability of Flacco. I've seen it said that Flacco fits our team better than those top 3. But no one has made the claim he is better overall.

 

Want to try again?

 

 

Certain people seem to feel real entitled about their opinion, like their fingers deliver golden words on a platinum plate.   it's funny what is sometimes allowed and some times isn't.

 

Yes, certain posters do seem to feel their opinion holds more weight than facts.

[ravensdfan]

he actually has been by many, but what has flacco got to do with tyrod as a backup?

 

I've not seen anyone claim he was better overall, only a better fit for our team and division. I'll take your word for it though as there does come that point where I stop visiting the Flacco threads because of the ridiculousness that goes on.

 

Nothing but as usual, some people must take their free shots at Flacco so I responded to what was said.

[redrum52]

There are the top 3 : Peyton, Rodgers and Brady. No one has ever claimed he was better than any of them. I've seen their early career numbers compared to Flacco's when certain posters are lamenting how horrible Flacco is - but I've never seen anyone claim he was better. After those top 3 it is pure conjecture and opinion as to who is better than who. No one has separated from the pack.

 

I've seen it said that Peyton and Brady would not have survived the AFCN and had the durability of Flacco. I've seen it said that Flacco fits our team better than those top 3. But no one has made the claim he is better overall.

 

Want to try again?

 

 

 

Yes, certain posters do seem to feel their opinion holds more weight than facts.

I have seen, never said you.  My point was that if someone is called better than someone they obviously aren't better than, why not call them out on it. 

 

To your last point, I'll assume that's a shot at me, but it's all good.  Also, from your first part of your comment, my opinion on Flacco being worse than those 3, even though you left out Brees, is apparently true and not opinion.  It's always a joy speaking with.  How's your day been?

 

Also, it was no shot at Flacco, if that's what you think.  I actually am a huge Flacco fan.  Just trying to get people to see from a different side.  What from what I said did you take as a shot at Flacco or can be construed as such?

[ravensdfan]

I have seen, never said you.  My point was that if someone is called better than someone they obviously aren't better than, why not call them out on it. 

 

To your last point, I'll assume that's a shot at me, but it's all good.  Also, from your first part of your comment, my opinion on Flacco being worse than those 3, even though you left out Brees, is apparently true and not opinion.  It's always a joy speaking with.  How's your day been?

 

Actually, it wasn't a shot at you but if the shoe fits and all that.

[The Raven]

You mean like when Flacco is compared to people who are better than him?

Sorry, said to be better than qbs better than him.

 

Other than the top three who else do you compare a Super Bowl MVP QB to? The bottom three? Maybe, just maybe, he gets compared to those guys because he can be that good. He gets compared to the best because he's among the best. It's simple.  

[1/28/01]

Other than the top three who else do you compare a Super Bowl MVP QB to? The bottom three? Maybe, just maybe, he gets compared to those guys because he can be that good. He gets compared to the best because he's among the best. It's simple.

Eli Manning?

[The Raven]

Eli Manning?

 

Eh, fair point there. Can't argue against it, though I think Eli is similar to Joe in that he's never had the best team to work with. His oline has been in shambles for a season or two if I recall correctly. 

 

 

Still you get the point. Flacco's resume speaks for itself. He's demonstrated enough talent to at least be in the top five conversation. 

[jazz1988]

The problem with Tyrod is 'happy feet'. He goes through his reads well before the receivers have had time to get to their positions and then simply takes off... he needs to slow everything down some and allow the routes to develop before he takes off. It is even more baffling considering the O-line is protecting better than last year.

 

The way they was performing in our first preseason game I would get happy feet  too lol . Our second string offensive line was pretty bad in pass protection but atleast their run blocking wasn't bad.

[redrum52]

Other than the top three who else do you compare a Super Bowl MVP QB to? The bottom three? Maybe, just maybe, he gets compared to those guys because he can be that good. He gets compared to the best because he's among the best. It's simple.  

If I say something like Ray Rice is better than an overrated AD, I'd expect some backlash and should.  If I say Tyrod is better than Flacco you should expect some backlash.  Not too hard to comprehend.  Can be that good and being that good are two totally different things.  Boller had flashes as well, so where were his comparisons?  Now you can say he barely had those flashes and I will say Flacco isn't consistent enough to be compared to those other guys.  When Flacco finally starts playing on a consistent basis, I believe is when he will really start getting the respect he deserves.  Not trying to turn this around though, this thread is about how bad Tyrod is.

[redrum52]

Eli Manning?

Lmao... You always seem to come up with a point I don't think of fast enough.  So much simpler than that crap I just posted.

[The Raven]

If I say something like Ray Rice is better than an overrated AD, I'd expect some backlash and should.  If I say Tyrod is better than Flacco you should expect some backlash.  Not too hard to comprehend.  Can be that good and being that good are two totally different things.  Boller had flashes as well, so where were his comparisons?  Now you can say he barely had those flashes and I will say Flacco isn't consistent enough to be compared to those other guys.  When Flacco finally starts playing on a consistent basis, I believe is when he will really start getting the respect he deserves.  Not trying to turn this around though, this thread is about how bad Tyrod is.

 

I think we just have different ideas of comparison. It means to "Estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between." I'm simply saying that there are measurable similarities between Flacco and the other top QBs. I'm not saying he is as good as them, but I am saying that he could be if his supporting cast was as good as theirs.

 

So yeah, back on topic, Tyrod is terrible. The fact that coaches are telling him to sit still and not run speaks enough about his sheer ineptitude as a QB. He's now playing in a West Coast offense predicated on quick decisions and short throws. And despite that, he still sucks. 

[1/28/01]

Lmao... You always seem to come up with a point I don't think of fast enough. So much simpler than that crap I just posted.

Ha. I love me some Joe Flacco. But, I can also hate (yeah, I said hate. I don't subscribe to this soft behind US where hate cant be used, except for real life stuff and my kids) me some Joe Flacco. Tyrod is fine for me. Is he great? No. Is he horrid? No. Are we better off with someone else? Perhaps. Is our season over if Flacco goes down for more than a game or two? Yes, and thats regardless of who our backup is.

Joe, shut the "haters" and the "tweeners" (me) up this year and go play some consistent ball!!!

[arnie_uk]

I think we just have different ideas of comparison. It means to "Estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between." I'm simply saying that there are measurable similarities between Flacco and the other top QBs. I'm not saying he is as good as them, but I am saying that he could be if his supporting cast was as good as theirs.

So yeah, back on topic, Tyrod is terrible. The fact that coaches are telling him to sit still and not run speaks enough about his sheer ineptitude as a QB. He's now playing in a West Coast offense predicated on quick decisions and short throws. And despite that, he still sucks.

he stands and pats the ball far to long and when he does through it, it always seems to be lofted without power and therefore doesn't get there in time.

Man can run though

[gabefergy]

For me, I just don't think Tyrod will ever succeed throwing the ball from the pocket. He has a big arm, but he has no confidence in it. He throws off his back foot and tries to finesse the ball. He just isn't a pocket QB. 

[GrimCoconut]

Back-ups I would rather have:

Whoever doesn't win the QB battles in Min, Cle, Jax, NYJ, TB

Mark Sanchez (yeah that's right)

Matt Moore

Tavaris Jackson

Brandon Weeden

Chase Daniel

Kellen Clemons

Ryan Mallett

Matt McGloin

Case Keenum

Matt Hasselbeck

Derek Carr

TJ Yates

By my count that's at least 17 back-ups in the NFL that have shown more ability than Tyrod. Some of these QBs are 3rd string. Some are early draft picks so they are slightly different, but many of those names were available and could have been signed.

I would've really liked to have Weeden as a backup. That would've been splendid.

[Militant X 1]

The problem with Tyrod is 'happy feet'. He goes through his reads well before the receivers have had time to get to their positions and then simply takes off... he needs to slow everything down some and allow the routes to develop before he takes off. It is even more baffling considering the O-line is protecting better than last year.

 

I respectfully disagree! 

 

Tyrod got sacked a few times because the o-line was soft in that 1st preseason game.  But in all honesty what do you expect Tyrod to do when the pocket is quickly collapsing around him and he has the ability to gain a few yards with his legs?  I say take off and gain a few yards!  I have no problem with that like most cats in here do!  And yet, Tyrod also stood in and threw a TD from the pocket in that game and got dinged up as well in the process and I believed little was said about that. 

 

#Mili

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Eli Manning?

 

Excellent comparison.

 

Another QB who's inconsistency can be partially (but not entirely) traced back to a poor o-line, injuries to his receivers, and a system that was a terrible fit for his backup receivers--who is now also learning a brand new system for the first time in his career.

 

More than half of Eli's 27 INTs last year came on either batted balls or on his receivers making the wrong reads on option routes--where Eli expected them to go one way, but they went another.

 

At least one of his other 20+ INT seasons can be attributed to the same problems.

That's why Gilbride, his former OC, is now gone, as he couldn't adapt his system to better fit the backups.

 

It's interesting to see which QBs, past & present, who Joe Flacco compares to the most so far, production-wise:

Ben Roethlisberger, Fran Tarkenton, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Steve Grogan, Eli Manning, Drew Bledsoe, Aaron Brooks, Ken O'Brien  

 

(bold indicates Hall of Famer)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm

 

As for Tyrod, I get the sense that our coaches keep thinking (and hoping) that someday the light might finally come on for him and he'll settle down into the pocket a solid backup QB. Unfortunately, I don't think that's ever going to happen. Certainly not with the Ravens.

[RavensDE]

Back-ups I would rather have:

Mark Sanchez (yeah that's right)

Matt Moore

Tavaris Jackson

Brandon Weeden

Chase Daniel

Kellen Clemons

Ryan Mallett

Matt McGloin

Case Keenum

Matt Hasselbeck

Derek Carr

TJ Yates

By my count that's at least 17 back-ups...

Tier 1

These are guys getting veteran solid backup money.  Their contracts reflect their market value as solid #2’s.  This is the type of contract Tyrod Taylor is hoping to earn next year.  They take up a solid amount of cap space by comparison.  I’d take Tyrod and the players bought with the cap space. 

(Example: The difference between Matt Moore and Tyrod Talor equals Steve Smith Sr. $3.5million)

 

Matt Moore 4mil

Matt Hasselbeck  3.6mil

Chase Daniel 3.3mil

Mark Sanchez 2.5mil

 

Tier 2

This is the second tier of backups where Tyrod likely will end up next year.  These are pretty much low budget vets.  Even these two make far more than double what Tyrod makes.  To me I like Tyrod equal to or better than these two but in any case they aren’t two to three times as good.

(Ex. Clemons vs Tyrod = Owen Daniels $1million)

 

Kellen Clemons  1.5mil

Tavaris Jackson 1.25mil

 

Homegrown

This group of is your later round home grown backups.  Like Tyrod these guys were drafted and groomed by the team they are with.  We would have had to trade draft picks to get them so it isn’t like we really had these guys as options. 

(We could get Keenum but it is pretty deep into camp and kinda late to make big changes in the locker room for a marginally better player… but this could happen if Kubiak/Harbaugh/Oz agree with you.)

 

Ryan Mallett  735k

TJ Yates  556k

Tyrod Taylor 536k

Matt McGloin  495k

Case Keenum  FA

High Draft Pick

This guy was a second round pick this year and their future starter.  C’mon the backup situation doesn't need that.  I'm sure he was just on your list because he is technically a backup but we can all agree we shouldn't spend 2nd rd picks on a backup.

 

Derek Carr  1.35mil

 

Due Diligence

I think we took a hard look at Weeden and maybe would have signed him but he chose the Cowboys and that was that.  I think he has similar tools to Flacco so I liked a Flacco lite as a backup. I suspect he was looking for a 1-yr tryout for vet money next year and we wanted a two year or more deal to settle our backup situation cheaply for a few years.  

 

Brandon Weeden 570k

 

[ravensdfan]

I respectfully disagree! 

 

Tyrod got sacked a few times because the o-line was soft in that 1st preseason game.  But in all honesty what do you expect Tyrod to do when the pocket is quickly collapsing around him and he has the ability to gain a few yards with his legs?  I say take off and gain a few yards!  I have no problem with that like most cats in here do!  And yet, Tyrod also stood in and threw a TD from the pocket in that game and got dinged up as well in the process and I believed little was said about that. 

 

#Mili

 

He certainly did. The problem is he doesn't do enough of that. He is too quick to take off and he doesn't always gain a few yards either. Sometimes, not all, the pocket collapse is a result of him patting the ball one too many times instead of throwing it away.

 

There is a reason the coaches are telling him to stop running so much. 

[Ravenslifer]

 

 

 

 

I was under the impression we drafted Wenning so we wouldn't have to go looking for a backup on the market?  Let him be QB3 or IR him, let him learn the system for a year, and if Tyrod looks for another opportunity elsewhere, Wenning steps into the role.

[ellicottraven]

I respectfully disagree! 

 

Tyrod got sacked a few times because the o-line was soft in that 1st preseason game.  But in all honesty what do you expect Tyrod to do when the pocket is quickly collapsing around him and he has the ability to gain a few yards with his legs?  I say take off and gain a few yards!  I have no problem with that like most cats in here do!  And yet, Tyrod also stood in and threw a TD from the pocket in that game and got dinged up as well in the process and I believed little was said about that. 

 

#Mili

@Mili, given your proclivity (nice word eh?) and fondness for Tyrod, given that you live in the same neighborhood and all, I have to agree to disagree with you. I like Tyrod too, but he needs to really start throwing the football and do what Joe does in our offense. If he is able to stay in the pocket and given that he can take off at will, it will put the fear of God in defenses if Joe Flacco ever goes down God forbid!

[gabefergy]

Tier 1

These are guys getting veteran solid backup money. Their contracts reflect their market value as solid #2’s. This is the type of contract Tyrod Taylor is hoping to earn next year. They take up a solid amount of cap space by comparison. I’d take Tyrod and the players bought with the cap space.

(Example: The difference between Matt Moore and Tyrod Talor equals Steve Smith Sr. $3.5million)

Matt Moore 4mil

Matt Hasselbeck 3.6mil

Chase Daniel 3.3mil

Mark Sanchez 2.5mil

Tier 2

This is the second tier of backups where Tyrod likely will end up next year. These are pretty much low budget vets. Even these two make far more than double what Tyrod makes. To me I like Tyrod equal to or better than these two but in any case they aren’t two to three times as good.

(Ex. Clemons vs Tyrod = Owen Daniels $1million)

Kellen Clemons 1.5mil

Tavaris Jackson 1.25mil

Homegrown

This group of is your later round home grown backups. Like Tyrod these guys were drafted and groomed by the team they are with. We would have had to trade draft picks to get them so it isn’t like we really had these guys as options.

(We could get Keenum but it is pretty deep into camp and kinda late to make big changes in the locker room for a marginally better player… but this could happen if Kubiak/Harbaugh/Oz agree with you.)

Ryan Mallett 735k

TJ Yates 556k

Tyrod Taylor 536k

Matt McGloin 495k

Case Keenum FA

High Draft Pick

This guy was a second round pick this year and their future starter. C’mon the backup situation doesn't need that. I'm sure he was just on your list because he is technically a backup but we can all agree we shouldn't spend 2nd rd picks on a backup.

Derek Carr 1.35mil

Due Diligence

I think we took a hard look at Weeden and maybe would have signed him but he chose the Cowboys and that was that. I think he has similar tools to Flacco so I liked a Flacco lite as a backup. I suspect he was looking for a 1-yr tryout for vet money next year and we wanted a two year or more deal to settle our backup situation cheaply for a few years.

Brandon Weeden 570k

I wasn't really talking about the financials, but you are right that the better backups are also pricier. The previous poster had inferred that Taylor was among the better back-ups in the NFL which I strongly disagree with.

The Ravens do have some cap flexibility and could have signed someone more expensive, but they are banking on Flaccos health.

I did specifically mention a high draft pick wouldn't end up on the Ravens for obvious reasons, but that is besides the point.

If Flacco gets hurt, the season is over.

[Guest RBates]

Why can't RBates cheer for one of our own guys? What's wrong with you all? Since when as a fan is it wrong to have faith in our own players? Geez.....

Thank you. The real reason for the obscene comments is they think i want the man to start over Joe.  Flacco is the starter.  However i would like to see the backup get quality reps in the preseason so i can make an informed decision on the direction the team should go in as far as a backup. 

[Guest RBates]

Eli Manning?

Who?  EWWWWWWW

[Ravensfan23]

The biggest issue Tyrod has in this offense is the fact that Kubes will not conform to him. He will not find a way to use Tyrod like Cam and Caldwell was willing to do. He will demand Tyrod to run the offense the way it is designed(from the pocket) or not be our backup QB.

 

I don't really have an issue with Tyrod running, especially in our old offense because it was rarely not there for him, so being able to run helped. However in this offense, running actually hurts the passing game. Reason being is because so much of our offense is predicated on being set up by the pervious play. Say, Torrey Smith is to run a dig one play and the follow play Torrey runs the same route to influence the Safety while Steve Smith run a Post behind it. However, if Torrey runs that dig but Tyrod doesn't read correct, then takes off running, it's next to impossible to think the Safety will bite on the route the next time, so it's hard to call the follow up play, if that makes sense.

 

While the oline played poorly last week, there were times that Tyrod just didn't read the defense correctly, nor did he make the correct decisions. There were times when he could have just slide in the pocket and found "wide open" men downfield but he decide to run. Which isn't all bad, but again while that 15 yard run looks exciting, does it keep the offense on schedule. Kubes is all about keeping the offense on schedule.

 

Tyrod will have to improve or his chances in the NFL may be coming to an end, which sadly happens with a lot of guys like Tyrod

[ravensdfan]

Thank you. The real reason for the obscene comments is they think i want the man to start over Joe.  Flacco is the starter.  However i would like to see the backup get quality reps in the preseason so i can make an informed decision on the direction the team should go in as far as a backup. 

 

I don't believe you want him to start over Joe. I believe you are blinded by your obsession with mobile QBs from seeing that Tyrod just isn't a good QB.

 

As for the bolded part .....what? That isn't a decision you make so whether or not you are informed really has no bearing.

[1/28/01]

As for the bolded part .....what? That isn't a decision you make so whether or not you are informed really has no bearing.

Oh come on. Thats called being a fan. We all "make" decisions the team should go in. Its called an opinion.

[Alexir]

Ha. I love me some Joe Flacco. But, I can also hate (yeah, I said hate. I don't subscribe to this soft behind US where hate cant be used, except for real life stuff and my kids) me some Joe Flacco. Tyrod is fine for me. Is he great? No. Is he horrid? No. Are we better off with someone else? Perhaps. Is our season over if Flacco goes down for more than a game or two? Yes, and thats regardless of who our backup is.

Joe, shut the "haters" and the "tweeners" (me) up this year and go play some consistent ball!!!

 

Exactly, Joe isn't exactly putting games on his back week in and week out. We could win a couple games with Tyrod as we would rely on the running game which we pretty much have done every season besides last year. I haven't seen anything from Wenning but I still think Tyrod is our guy.