Pre-season Game 1 vent/ compliment thread -- who played well-- who didn't !

[Token]

Say the same thing about Jimmy Smith...Guy couldn't track the ball at all and constantly let up big plays because of it.   A year later and he looks like he will be one of the next best corners in the league.  

 

That's very true, and it's something I think about whenever I want to have some optimism about Chykie. But it's also important to remember that Chykie is actually older than Jimmy (by almost 2 years which I didn't even realize) and they came in at the same time. If he hasn't figured it out at this point it's very possible he never will. You can only have potential for so long before it starts turning into "this is who you are as a player and it'll never change." I'm not saying he won't learn because I really hope he does, but it's not very likely at this point.

[rmw10]

Oh I know you aren't saying I'm wrong, and you know personally I don't have an issue with either being wrong or admitting I was wrong(unfortunately).

 

Has Chykie and Asa not been question marks over the last 2-3 years? How is this different. Nobody knew what Graham could do, most thought he was just a ST guy before getting snaps at CB. Our depth at Chykie hasn't been solid for the past several years. Right now every body outside of Jimmy and Webb are question marks. I think we are sadly mistaken if Chykie continues to get out played and we keep him in the name of him showing a flash or two before.

 

Also another thing I've noticed from my day at camp and now the preseason game. The Ravens are more then comfortable with their Safeties covering in the slot. On many occasions Thursday night I saw, either Omar Browns, Miles or Brooks(not as much) in the slot with the second team defense. Now I don't know if having 3 Safeties on the field was just to give those guys a chance to stand out or what, but they looked good. Chykie is far from a lock to me.

 

Asa and Chykie have always been the #4 and #5 CBs.  They've pretty much always had 3 of Webb, Smith, Graham, or Williams in front of them.  The reason some guys rose to their positions is because of injuries rather than being slotted there from the beginning.

 

In general, I think we really just need a veteran presence.  I really hope something at least somewhat worthwhile pops up on the FA market after cuts.  Right now, options are very limited, and as poorly as Chykie has performed, I think he has a leg up on this team as its currently constructed.  If these guys don't turn it around here in the next 2 weeks, I think we have to explore some trade options and monitor cuts.  Our depth at CB is pretty laughable.

[sflegend89]

How is it ridiculous?  Richard Sherman was a fifth round pick.  These guys are people, not numbers.  I'm comparing their play on the field.  That's what matters.  

 

It absolutely is a ridiculous comparison because your comparing 2 players with a massive gap in talent, physical tools, and intangibles like I said. It's like saying "Don't be so hard on Curtis Painter...Joe Flacco struggled early on with his reads too and now he looks like he could be one of the best QB's in the NFL". 

 

You can't just compare 2 players because they play the same position, there has to be parallels in talent to make a valid comparison.

[Ravensfan23]

Don't feed me that crap.  Asa Jackson is clearly better, no doubt.  Franks and Olatoye were playing 3rd and 4th string players while Chykie was filling in for Webb. Can't compare how well they did.  

 

Jimmy was crap his first few years.  We all knew he had the potential and it was going to take time.  Homers loved to talk about how good he was.  He wasn't good, but he showed improvement game after game which is why we knew he would be good.

 

Chykie has looked better the more he is on the field.  Now he is up against better talent and is struggling a bit.  He shouldn't be filling in for Webb anyway.  As a number 4 guy Chykie is pretty good.

 

The 9ers had their first team offense in the game for one drive or 2 if you count Stevie Johnson. Chykie had a poor game period. Even if he was playing against their top WR which he wasn't, that doesn't excuse you not being able to find the ball in the air. That doesn't excuse him given the WR 12 yards of cushion on a 3rd and 8 and continually allowing far too much cushion underneath. Technique isn't about who is lining up across from you. It's pretty bad when Blaine Gabbert throws at you and has success. Brown was beaten by #17 a first year player out of Utah State on more then one occasion. If anything that's the guy you build your confidence and play up on. No way Webb would have been covering him with 4:52 left in the second quarter or just before the half when Chykie was still in the game getting beat, so you don't give me that crap about him playing better competition. He just had a poor game period.

 

Jacobs had much better technique then Chykie. The talent level he was facing had nothing to do with him running down field and turning his head at the right time to locate the football. The WR and or QB he was playing against had nothing to do with him making a play on the ball 30+ yards down. That's instincts. By the way this play happened against the same #17 WR that beat Chykie so what's that about better competition again? Chykie continually gave 8-10 yards of cushion on off coverage and his bail out made it about 12+ yards, which lead to far to easy completions underneath(or should be completions) while Jacobs gave 4-6 yards of cushion on off coverage. This is a sign of confidence in your technique and again it was against the same WR. #17. So it's not like one guy was faster then the other. If Chykie was truly playing against better competition his performance would have been much worse then it was. imo

 

If that's crap then I don't know what more to say.

[Ravensfan23]

Asa and Chykie have always been the #4 and #5 CBs.  They've pretty much always had 3 of Webb, Smith, Graham, or Williams in front of them.  The reason some guys rose to their positions is because of injuries rather than being slotted there from the beginning.

 

In general, I think we really just need a veteran presence.  I really hope something at least somewhat worthwhile pops up on the FA market after cuts.  Right now, options are very limited, and as poorly as Chykie has performed, I think he has a leg up on this team as its currently constructed.  If these guys don't turn it around here in the next 2 weeks, I think we have to explore some trade options and monitor cuts.  Our depth at CB is pretty laughable.

 

Correct, and now guys like Jacob, Franks, and Olatoye would be #4 and #5 so how is that different. How is Asa anymore of a question mark then Graham who didn't play defense much at all with the Bears before coming here. How was it different from a 7th round STer from the Titans who didn't play much at all in games? Both Cary and Corey showed and proved they had what it took to perform well for this defense and that's exactly what Ace is doing right now imo.

 

I completely agree with adding a veteran, but i'm not sure who. I think we might rely on one of our Safeties to be that #4 Dime back when needed. I think Pees and Spagz really like our versatility at the Safety position. It's unconventional, but that hasn't stopped the Ravens defense before. It'll be interesting to see how the Safety position plays out.

 

On a personally note, this conversation is exactly why I love this time of year and would love to be a fly on Ozzie's wall.

[rmw10]

Correct, and now guys like Jacob, Franks, and Olatoye would be #4 and #5 so how is that different. How is Asa anymore of a question mark then Graham who didn't play defense much at all with the Bears before coming here. How was it different from a 7th round STer from the Titans who didn't play much at all in games? Both Cary and Corey showed and proved they had what it took to perform well for this defense and that's exactly what Ace is doing right now imo.

 

I completely agree with adding a veteran, but i'm not sure who. I think we might rely on one of our Safeties to be that #4 Dime back when needed. I think Pees and Spagz really like our versatility at the Safety position. It's unconventional, but that hasn't stopped the Ravens defense before. It'll be interesting to see how the Safety position plays out.

 

On a personally note, this conversation is exactly why I love this time of year and would love to be a fly on Ozzie's wall.

 

None of those guys started as the #3 though.  All of them started at the bottom of the depth chart behind some more established guys and got a shot due to injury.  By time guys like Graham and Williams moved up to the #3 spot, they had a track record from experience in the previous year.  It seems in this case that our #3 is being put there because we have no other options.  I hope all that makes sense.  It's kind of hard to explain my thought process here lol.  Asa is definitely proving himself well right now, but he has no regular season experience to his name and that's often what we;'ve had in the past.

 

For sure though.  I'm all up for some good discussion.  Evaluating the roster and what it could become is my favorite part of the offseason.

[Ravensfan23]

None of those guys started as the #3 though.  All of them started at the bottom of the depth chart behind some more established guys and got a shot due to injury.  By time guys like Graham and Williams moved up to the #3 spot, they had a track record from experience in the previous year.  It seems in this case that our #3 is being put there because we have no other options.  I hope all that makes sense.  It's kind of hard to explain my thought process here lol.  Asa is definitely proving himself well right now, but he has no regular season experience to his name and that's often what we;'ve had in the past.

 

For sure though.  I'm all up for some good discussion.  Evaluating the roster and what it could become is my favorite part of the offseason.

 

Oh yea I definitely understand what you are saying. Chykie is the only guy that has game experience in our system. I get that and I understand how and why that's valuable. But as a guy who is familiar with the system, I feel and have to think the Ravens feel Chykie shouldn't be struggling the way he is. I personally think Chykie is struggling mentally right now. The physical talent is there, but he just doesn't seem confident in his technique right now. He plays far too soft on off coverage as if he's afraid of a double move, and although his length allow him to stay in the hip pocket of WRs while in press man, he doesn't seem to trust his technique enough to disengage with the WR.

 

I'm hoping he turns it around because I think the talent is certainly there and though he played well leading up to the Super Bowl. But if he doesn't improve it'll be interesting to see what happens.

[ThaU]

High points=

Mosley...was all over the field making plays

Jernigan....dude showed a good burst, and strength, kept a high motor.

Taliaferro...dude looked great and ran with some heart.

The offense...looked in sync and like it had a rhythm for the first time in a while.

Low points=

Chykie....just watch the film...

Marlon brown...really looking for this guy to show he can build off of what he did in limited time last season and take over opposite torrey.

Pretty much the entire second team O-line was garbage.

[rmw10]

Oh yea I definitely understand what you are saying. Chykie is the only guy that has game experience in our system. I get that and I understand how and why that's valuable. But as a guy who is familiar with the system, I feel and have to think the Ravens feel Chykie shouldn't be struggling the way he is. I personally think Chykie is struggling mentally right now. The physical talent is there, but he just doesn't seem confident in his technique right now. He plays far too soft on off coverage as if he's afraid of a double move, and although his length allow him to stay in the hip pocket of WRs while in press man, he doesn't seem to trust his technique enough to disengage with the WR.

 

I'm hoping he turns it around because I think the talent is certainly there and though he played well leading up to the Super Bowl. But if he doesn't improve it'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

Yep that's exactly what I was trying to say.  Glad that was made clear lol.

 

I just feel that, pending we add no one else, Chykie is safe because of that experience and what we've done historically.  It's not ideal, but CB is a position in which we rarely have gone with inexperience to play a very large role.  I think that changes a bit this year if Asa keeps it up, but Chykie won't be without his opportunities, in my opinion.

[ravensdfan]

I'm not sure where you are going here. Trust me i'm not attacking you nor your opinion, but you say Pees job is to fix mistakes, well isn't that exactly what the first team defense did the second drive of the game? I get that the first drive was bad, but that was as close to a physically dominating performance as you can get from a preseason game without showing too much of your scheme. He moved Mcphee around all over the defense, reminded me of AD from 06, and Mcphee responded well. He did a nice job of mixing up coverage in the back end, probably because we did a great job getting pressure with the front 4. He had safeties roaming the box, he blitzed a good amount. I really can't see how he can be bashed at all for this game.

 

As for last year, it was tough to continue the aggressive defensive style because our offense had far too many 3 and outs. Early in the season we were very aggressive, not as much as Rex and Chuck, but aggressive style. But our defense either got tired or made mistakes in the back end. I thought Thursday night was a good start. What was it that you didn't like about the defense in the first preseason game?

 

Did they fix it? Or was it Gabbert that helped? Hard to tell really. I agree with much of your assessment as far as blitzing, mixing up coverage, far less zone etc. The problem is, we see this in preseason and it always disappears once the regular season rolls around. Let's say on those points: I'm not sold. It's easy to have the guts to be aggressive in preseason - what it appears as of now (given past inclinations) is that he lacks guts when the games start to count. I'll be pleased as punch if I'm wrong and the current trend carries over into the regular season. I'm just not holding my breath for it because I've seen nothing from Pees as of yet to indicate that will be the case.

 

As for this particular game, if they'd gone to the air and we'd faltered, I would have expected that possibility. Certainly our secondary is our weak point right now. To allow them to run through us like a hot knife through butter though - that is a different story IMO. That should not be a weakness. 

 

I understand Suggs made a bone headed mistake, however, we've seen him make that mistake in other games as well. No, it isn't an all the time thing - but yes, he's done the exact same thing before. Coaches watch film - Pees should have been aware by now that Suggs sometimes has this tendency and been working on it IMO. 

 

Let's be honest here - we've given the defense practically everything. It's time to see dividends from those investments. The talent is there. Is the right DC? We'll see.

[Ravensfan23]

Yep that's exactly what I was trying to say.  Glad that was made clear lol.

 

I just feel that, pending we add no one else, Chykie is safe because of that experience and what we've done historically.  It's not ideal, but CB is a position in which we rarely have gone with inexperience to play a very large role.  I think that changes a bit this year if Asa keeps it up, but Chykie won't be without his opportunities, in my opinion.

Oh Chykie is gonna be given plenty of opportunities to either succeed or fail. We talk about him having experience, but at the same time a 1st year player was having a lot of success against him and if the QB was anybody better then Gabbert, his performance would have seemed even worse.

 

As for Asa, I've always though he was a guy who could step up if even the shot. But him being suspended hurt him. Now he's got a green light to really showcase his talent and I don't think he'll look back.

 

I can't speak to what he's done in practice, except for the 1 day I was there, but the more I breakdown the 1st preseason game, the more I like Jacobs. I was impressed with him at camp and this 1 game. Yes it's only one game but I like what I've seen. He'll have to continue to stack days.

[rmw10]

Oh Chykie is gonna be given plenty of opportunities to either succeed or fail. We talk about him having experience, but at the same time a 1st year player was having a lot of success against him and if the QB was anybody better then Gabbert, his performance would have seemed even worse.

 

As for Asa, I've always though he was a guy who could step up if even the shot. But him being suspended hurt him. Now he's got a green light to really showcase his talent and I don't think he'll look back.

 

I can't speak to what he's done in practice, except for the 1 day I was there, but the more I breakdown the 1st preseason game, the more I like Jacobs. I was impressed with him at camp and this 1 game. Yes it's only one game but I like what I've seen. He'll have to continue to stack days.

 

For sure.  It'll be interesting to see how everything plays out over the next few weeks.  Right now, I'd venture to guess that Asa is the primary #3 and Chykie will rotate in based on the situation.  I cannot see us not adding another true NFL guy at some point though.

 

Jacobs is definitely my favorite of the UDFAs right now.  The day I went, he got beat a few times but showed nice recovery skills.  My biggest concern right now is that when he was elevated to playing against the 1s, it didn't go too well.  I hope they give him some snaps on Saturday though so I can see that for myself.  I'm going off of reports on that little blurb.

[dhstandard]

It absolutely is a ridiculous comparison because your comparing 2 players with a massive gap in talent, physical tools, and intangibles like I said. It's like saying "Don't be so hard on Curtis Painter...Joe Flacco struggled early on with his reads too and now he looks like he could be one of the best QB's in the NFL". 

 

You can't just compare 2 players because they play the same position, there has to be parallels in talent to make a valid comparison.

 

Umm you can make the same comparison.  Jimmy Smith was as bad as Chykie Brown was/is.  Joe Flacco at his worst is still better than Curtis Painter.  

 

Take those purple glasses off.  

 

1.  Jimmy was as bad as Chykie but managed to get better.  Thinking of a guy like Corey Graham who played mostly special teams and then broke out later in his career.

 

2. Chykie isn't even THAT bad.  He isn't getting burned at all.  He can stay with the receiver which is more than you can say about a lot of corners out there.  

 

3. Besides, he is a #3-4 guy filling in for a starter.  Of course he wasn't doing too well. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't think you were paying much attention to KLM, Timmy, Tyson or Mcphee because they all had strong games. I'm not sure if you were looking for splash plays from them or not but they consistently did their jobs all night. Now I will say Mcphee still has work to do to consistently set the edge outside, I think once, maybe twice he lost contain but he was constantly getting pressure all night and I loved how Pees moved him around.

 

KLM, Timmy and Tyson all dominated the LOS throughout the game from what I saw. I still haven't gotten a chance to really break the game down but watching the game live, all those guys played well. Timmy got really good push from the inside on the pass rush. On Mosley's sack, both Timmy and KLM took up a total of 4 blockers and that allowed CJ and Mcphee to work against 1on1 and both won their matchups. I thought those guys played great.

appreciate the knowledge lol like i said i was a bit inebriated at a bar in myrtle beach watching the game on a small tv screen and i had to leave at halftime so i couldnt really catch it. i normally notice the little things like that, i paid pretty good attention to our first offensive drive but i was too distracted otherwise

[Blackbirds Rule]

How did Suggs, Simon, Stewart, and McClellan struggle? I didn't get to watch the game.

Suggs wasn't in that long but it just seemed like he was just set on getting a sack because one of their big runs was to his side where he didn't set the edge he just over ran the play and they ran where he was supposed to be for like 20 yards into the redzone. If this was a regular season game I think Suggs would've payed more attention and made the play.

 

Stewart just didn't seem to be around the ball when it was in the air. He seemed a bit lost to me.

 

McClellan just didn't make many plays while he was on the field he was a sure tackler when he got there but i feel he gave up an extra 2-3 yards by being a little passive.

 

Simon just didn't do anything and he was working against the second and third teams. i hope he can improve over the next three preseason games. We could use the extra quality depth.

[cushrinada1986]

If Brown keeps having up and down games and practices, if the ravens do decide to pick up a vet after the preseason then Browns spot seems like is where he will go.