Can we now shut up about Joe Flacco's contract?

[ravensnick]

With Dalton signing a 6 yr extn. worth 115MM and Colin Kaepernik's recent contract, can the national media and football fans chill about paying Flacco 120MM over the same time frame??

 

If anybody thinks Joe Flacco earning a million more than Andy Dalton each year, isn't an absolute steal for the Ravens must be smoking a banned substance. No truthfully they must be high. I am beginning to think Flacco is a steal for the Ravens considering he has already won a SB and has been MVP of the SB! 

 

Can you imagine Andy Dalton accomplishing anything remotely similar??

When Matt Ryan got the same exact contract, but a bit ore money, is whe nI shut up. Then Romo and Cutler got similar deals, and I felt we got some good value.

[redrum52]

It doesn't seem hypocritical to any of you that you were sitting here crying about the Flacco contract criticism and now you all are doing the same thing about Dalton?

[5aiah]

It doesn't seem hypocritical to any of you that you were sitting here crying about the Flacco contract criticism and now you all are doing the same thing about Dalton?

 

Especially since Flacco has to agree to restructure his contract for it to be team friendly. Dalton's comes built in team friendly, if he doesn't produce enough to warrant the big pay check he will get next year they are going to kick him to the curb. A strong armed QB might not be a upgrade at first but it certainly takes some limits off of the offensive play calling and allows for more growth for said offense. This contract is sweet and more team friendly than Flacco's because Dalton's weakness makes him so expendable if he isn't elite in other areas like vision, anticipation, accuracy, and clutch ability.

[PolishRifle]

It doesn't seem hypocritical to any of you that you were sitting here crying about the Flacco contract criticism and now you all are doing the same thing about Dalton?

 

Especially with all the rings Dalton has. Oh right, I forgot Flacco got just lucky and had nothing to do with the SB run we had in 2012. Dilfer won a SB just like Flacco, people forget that so much, it's even mentioned by critics on a regular basis.

[redrum52]

Especially with all the rings Dalton has. Oh right, I forgot Flacco got lucky and had nothing to do with the SB run we had in 2012. Dilfer won a SB just like Flacco, people forget that so much, it's even mentioned by critics on a regular basis.

A little confused as to what that has to do with what I'm saying.  He's not making what Flacco is making, he's not on our team and if he wasn't resigned what do they have?  It's essentially a 2 year extension with the option to cut him if he doesn't produce.  When Flacco was paid, didn't a bunch of you say "that's the going rate for a franchise qb?"  Why does that change now?

[ellicottraven]

it should've been an hour and a half shorter.

Yes but if there was no power outage, 2 mins longer would have made the score 50-6 as our momentum would continue and their misery as well.

[flynismo]

When Flacco was paid, didn't a bunch of you say "that's the going rate for a franchise qb?"  Why does that change now?

It doesn't change. It's simply the fact that Dalton is anything but a franchise QB -- and his contract says as much

[PolishRifle]

A little confused as to what that has to do with what I'm saying.  He's not making what Flacco is making, he's not on our team and if he wasn't resigned what do they have?  It's essentially a 2 year extension with the option to cut him if he doesn't produce.  When Flacco was paid, didn't a bunch of you say "that's the going rate for a franchise qb?"  Why does that change now?

 

Flacco  wasn't a highly paid QB in his final year of his rookie deal. He had the opportunity to sign a new contract with the Ravens in 2012 (one that would've been similar, maybe slightly better than Daltons current contract), but instead he bet on himself and won out. After winning his first SB under those circumstances, I don't see how the Flacco contract can be seen as a bad deal for the Ravens. Since the franchise got a championship for cheap and the knowledge, that their franchise QB can lead a team to a SB title. Yet, Flacco is still the posterboy for overpaid NFL players?

The Andy Dalton deal is cheaper, but there is no indication that Dalton can propel that franchise forward. He had a very talented roster around him, just like Flacco, but unlike Joe, he couldn't get even one playoff win out of the situation he was put in.

So what they got, is a QB who can look good in the regular season, which will only make it harder for the Bengals to cut him (I don't see this contract as some 2 year ultimatum), but not good enough to get them to a championship. As if the Bengals are stuck in purgatory.

Yeah, I think the Ravens made a better deal and considering how important the perception of Joe Flacco and his contract has become in the media and this forum, this topic does make sense and is not hyprocritical at all.

[redrum52]

Flacco  wasn't a highly paid QB in his final year of his rookie deal. He had the opportunity to sign a new contract with the Ravens in 2012 (one that would've been similar, maybe slightly better than Daltons current contract), but instead he bet on himself and won out. After winning his first SB under those circumstances, I don't see how the Flacco contract can be seen as a bad deal for the Ravens. Since the franchise got a championship for cheap and the knowledge, that their franchise QB can lead a team to a SB title. Yet, Flacco is still the posterboy for overpaid NFL players?

The Andy Dalton deal is cheaper, but there is no indication that Dalton can propel that franchise forward. He had a very talented roster around him, just like Flacco, but unlike Joe, he couldn't get even one playoff win out of the situation he was put in.

So what they got, is a QB who can look good in the regular season, which will only make it harder for the Bengals to cut him (I don't see this contract as some 2 year ultimatum), but not good enough to get them to a championship. As if the Bengals are stuck in purgatory.

Yeah, I think the Ravens made a better deal and considering how important the perception of Joe Flacco and his contract has become in the media and this forum, this topic does make sense and is not hyprocritical at all.

The Ravens basically had no choice after Flacco didn't sign the contract the year before, first.  Next, who cares what they think, and again, Dalton's contract is more team friendly.  We need to realize, Flacco's deal isn't that team friendly if he doesn't restructure in a few years.  Just as you say there is no sign Dalton can propel his team, weren't they saying the same thing about Joe?  Flacco didn't really show anything in the playoffs to the public until year four against the Pats in the AFCCG and it's funny to me how people rave about the talent around Dalton without mention the talent around Flacco prior to last year.  You can try and make it seem different, but they made a smart move.  Let's saw Dalton does happen to win a championship this year, then what are the Bengals stuck doing next year when they have to choose between re-signing him or letting him walk?  To me, the deal they got done was smart.

[PolishRifle]

The Ravens basically had no choice after Flacco didn't sign the contract the year before, first.  Next, who cares what they think, and again, Dalton's contract is more team friendly.  We need to realize, Flacco's deal isn't that team friendly if he doesn't restructure in a few years.  Just as you say there is no sign Dalton can propel his team, weren't they saying the same thing about Joe?  Flacco didn't really show anything in the playoffs to the public until year four against the Pats in the AFCCG and it's funny to me how people rave about the talent around Dalton without mention the talent around Flacco prior to last year.  You can try and make it seem different, but they made a smart move.  Let's saw Dalton does happen to win a championship this year, then what are the Bengals stuck doing next year when they have to choose between re-signing him or letting him walk?  To me, the deal they got done was smart.

 

What about the game against the Chiefs in 2010? Flacco already had one good playoff game under his belt back then after season 3, that's one more than Dalton. Dalton still had a year left in his rookie contract and everyone expected him to have a season, where he proves himself. Flacco played out the last year of his contract, after the AFCCG. Of course it's different. Flacco was more proven. He wasn't SBMVP yet, but that only highlights how little Dalton has done with the Bengals for now. Also, didn't I just mention how Flacco has been put in similar situation, but performed better? Being stuck with a QB (and yes, even with a contract this size it becomes harder for them to try someone else), who hasn't even shown a little playoff success is not a team friendly contract either.

The Ravens would be a much worse team right now without Joe Flacco, even if they would've had a better salary cap situation.

[redrum52]

What about the game against the Chiefs in 2010? Flacco already had one good playoff game under his belt back then after season 3, that's one more than Dalton. Dalton still had a year left in his rookie contract and everyone expected him to have a season, where he proves himself. Flacco played out the last year of his contract, after the AFCCG. Of course it's different. Flacco was more proven. He wasn't SBMVP yet, but that only highlights how little Dalton has done with the Bengals for now. Also, didn't I just mention how Flacco has been put in similar situation, but performed better? Being stuck with a QB, who hasn't even shown a little playoff success is not a team friendly contract either.

The Ravens would be a much worse team right now with Joe Flacco, even if they would've had a better salary cap situation.

You're right about the Chiefs game, but like I said publicly.  No one who isn't a Ravens fan cared about the Chiefs game.  Also you, can say he's done little, but since he's gotten there, the Bengals haven't missed the playoffs, even though he's yet to win a game in the post season.  There is at least that consistency.  The contract is essentially like a 2 year deal I think.  That should be enough time to gauge where your qbs ceiling and floor is with the guys around him.  The rest I basically agree with, the team is much better with Joe than without him, even though I never said opposite.

[PolishRifle]

You're right about the Chiefs game, but like I said publicly.  No one who isn't a Ravens fan cared about the Chiefs game.  Also you, can say he's done little, but since he's gotten there, the Bengals haven't missed the playoffs, even though he's yet to win a game in the post season.  There is at least that consistency.  The contract is essentially like a 2 year deal I think.  That should be enough time to gauge where your qbs ceiling and floor is with the guys around him.  The rest I basically agree with, the team is much better with Joe than without him, even though I never said opposite.

You called Flacco's contract "not team friendly" and I do take issue with that, because concentrating on numbers alone is a very narrow view on the impact that contract has. After what Flacco did for the team and how he has proven himself in 2012, just signing him to a long term deal makes it team friendly. And that's my issue with Dalton's "consistency". Yes, they made the playoffs everytime and that's a great statistic to have (I'm sure Dalton has plenty to do with it), but having post season success (even a little) would show that he's worth keeping. He's too good for the Bengals to be cut just like that (especially with "managable deal"), but he hasn't shown to be good enough to lead them to the SB. They're just stuck in between the regular season and the playoffs.

That Wild Card game against the Texans in 2012 was so ugly. The Texans were almost beging to get beaten (a great preview of what the Texans would become in 2013) and he just couldn't do it.

[redrum52]

You called Flacco's contract "not team friendly" and I do take issue with that, because concentrating on numbers alone is a very narrow view on the impact that contract has. After what Flacco did for the team and how he has proven himself in 2012, just signing him to a long term deal makes it team friendly. And that's my issue with Dalton's "consistency". Yes, they made the playoffs everytime and that's a great statistic to have (I'm sure Dalton has plenty to do with it), but having post season success (even a little) would show that he's worth keeping. He's too good for the Bengals to be cut just like that (especially with "managable deal"), but he hasn't shown to be good enough to lead them to the SB. They're just stuck in between the regular season and the playoffs.

That Wild Card game against the Texans in 2012 was so ugly. The Texans were almost beging to get beaten (a great preview of what the Texans would become in 2013) and he just couldn't do it.

Not team friendly in a few years is what I think I said.  28.5 mil and 31 mil is kind of high, I don't care who you are.  What you just said about him being in between is my point about the contract.  Look at the guaranteed money, he's basically getting nothing.  They're not obligated to keep him if he shows no improvement, but they basically bought time to find out.

[1/28/01]

Dalton is 3 years in and is signed on a "prove it" type contract. What is there to go back and forth on? I mean, really????

[PolishRifle]

Not team friendly in a few years is what I think I said.  28.5 mil and 31 mil is kind of high, I don't care who you are.  What you just said about him being in between is my point about the contract.  Look at the guaranteed money, he's basically getting nothing.  They're not obligated to keep him if he shows no improvement, but they basically bought time to find out.

Whatever. I said my piece. I don't care how cap friendly this contract is, I still don't see a good reason to sign him. Cinci should've dared him to prove them wrong RIGHT NOW. Maybe he could've pulled a Flacco and won it all. I guess money is more important to some than winning. Not surprising, that it's the Bengals, though.

[1/28/01]

Whatever. I said my piece. I don't care how cap friendly this contract is, I still don't see a good reason to sign him. Cinci should've dared him to prove them wrong RIGHT NOW. Maybe he could've pulled a Flacco and won it all. I guess money is more important to some than winning. Not surprising, that it's the Bengals, though.

Yes, money is more important to all of them. Its business. Just like Flacco DIDNT sign and played for the money. And he won.

[PolishRifle]

Yes, money is more important to all of them. Its business. Just like Flacco DIDNT sign and played for the money. And he won.

 

That worked both ways, though. Biscotti admitted himself, that he wanted Joe to prove what he's worth. No reason to whine about it now with a second Lombardi in Baltimore. Still, won't stop some people, though. There's always something to complain about.

[AsianRice]

I don't know. Yeah, statistically Joe's first 3 years don't look as good as the last 2 playoff runs, but he still made some big plays here and there, so you could see flashes of greatness (not, that even the biggest Flacco fans saw 2012 coming). 

I don't remember ANY moments like those with Dalton and he has had an arguably better team in all his years with the Bengals than Joe ever had in Baltimore (especially with AJ Green as his WR).

And, most importantly, we signed Joe after he proved himself and even, if we would've signed him a whole years earlier (like I wanted) we still would've had that great AFCCG (damn you Cundiff!) as credible proof, that Joe can play really well in big games.

 

 

 

I hate to quote Skip Bayless, but Dalton doesn't pass the "eye test" for me in the playoffs. You really have to show, that you can create plays out of nowhere sometimes, when your team needs you to. For now, we only know, that Dalton plays well, when he's surrounded by greatness and everything is going according to plan and there's relatively little pressure on him.

Will he ever heave a deep ball over the head of a out of position safety in Denver spoiling Peyton Mannings comeback? I'm not so sure about that.

I lost my voice with that throw..........

[redrum52]

You know how it is....we could be debating the price of eggs in China and it would turn into a Flacco thread.

Look at the title of the thread

[PolishRifle]

Look at the title of the thread

Thursday can't come soon enough. We're all are getting a little chippy around here, just judging by the last couple of days. It will be nice to finally see the boys in action, especially the rookies. 

[berad]

You guys are like the players, need someone in a different jersey to fight with. Maybe we'll get a 49ers troll here during the next week?

[SecretAgentMan]

You guys are like the players, need someone in a different jersey to fight with. Maybe we'll get a 49ers troll here during the next week?

You can count on it

[gabefergy]

This thread is in midseason form already.

Here's what you need to know.

Cincinnati doesn't believe in Dalton, but they threw him a bone just in case he suddenly becomes good overnight.

The Ravens would have been wise to sign Flacco before he became the SB MVP, but whatever reason it didn't happen. He's now signed to a cumbersome deal that is fine for the time being, but becomes an albatross in a couple of seasons. The Ravens wanted to keep Flacco long term and this contract is proof of that. The deal will have to be restructured which means Flacco is most likely the Ravens QB for a very long time, and frankly I think that's a good thing.

[redrum52]

You guys are like the players, need someone in a different jersey to fight with. Maybe we'll get a 49ers troll here during the next week?

Haha

[flynismo]

Why are people looking for every reason to defend this guy?

 Why not? I thought we were fans of this team? And given the fact where we were before he got here and where he has taken us since, it's ridiculous the amount of criticism he gets. Stupid and incessant criticism of one of our guys = him being defended by the fans that support him and the team. Doesn't sound complicated to me.

[The Mom Gene]

 Why not? I thought we were fans of this team? And given the fact where we were before he got here and where he has taken us since, it's ridiculous the amount of criticism he gets. Stupid and incessant criticism of one of our guys = him being defended by the fans that support him and the team. Doesn't sound complicated to me.

Bravo, Thanks Fly......

 

I find it pretty pathetic that we have this wonderful team that takes us to the playoffs just about every year.  We are competitive with the likes of the Patriots, the Broncos, Saints, and even the Steelers....  Some of the best teams in the league.  Not only do they take us to the playoffs, they have won us a Super Bowl or two...  and yet the best we can ask for is a fanbase that criticizes it's QB...  Now if we had Romo, or God Forbid all the years we had the likes of Grbac, and Boller....  then I could see it, but this is RIDICULOUS!  And then folks ask us why we defend OUR guy?????  Really????  Just sayin.... 

[SecretAgentMan]

Why not? I thought we were fans of this team? And given the fact where we were before he got here and where he has taken us since, it's ridiculous the amount of criticism he gets. Stupid and incessant criticism of one of our guys = him being defended by the fans that support him and the team. Doesn't sound complicated to me.

Quoted for truth.

[redrum52]

 Why not? I thought we were fans of this team? And given the fact where we were before he got here and where he has taken us since, it's ridiculous the amount of criticism he gets. Stupid and incessant criticism of one of our guys = him being defended by the fans that support him and the team. Doesn't sound complicated to me.

If Michael Oher messed up there wasn't a chorus of posters coming to his defense saying, "he's in the wrong blocking scheme", or "our o line coach is terrible(until Castillo)", or "the play call doesn't fit Michael Oher."  He messes up and it's accepted.  Flacco makes a mistake damn near everyone else is blamed before the finger is pointed at him around here by most.  The Bills game was a perfect example where I saw people trying to nit pick all the ints he threw.  I never said anything was wrong with cheering for your team, but nothing is wrong in admitting their faults either.  Whatever, I'm a blind Flacco hater I guess who just wants to see the Ravens lose.  Even in this thread, most are boosting Flacco by just claiming Dalton sucks.  It wasn't too long ago we were the team with the questionable qb and look at how that turned out.

[gabefergy]

If Michael Oher messed up there wasn't a chorus of posters coming to his defense saying, "he's in the wrong blocking scheme", or "our o line coach is terrible(until Castillo)", or "the play call doesn't fit Michael Oher." He messes up and it's accepted. Flacco makes a mistake damn near everyone else is blamed before the finger is pointed at him around here by most. The Bills game was a perfect example where I saw people trying to nit pick all the ints he threw. I never said anything was wrong with cheering for your team, but nothing is wrong in admitting their faults either. Whatever, I'm a blind Flacco hater I guess who just wants to see the Ravens lose. Even in this thread, most are boosting Flacco by just claiming Dalton sucks. It wasn't too long ago we were the team with the questionable qb and look at how that turned out.

Actually, there was for quite some time. It took most fans a good 3-4 years to realize that Oher was just bad. I count myself in that group as well.

The thing is, Flacco is actually good, and he's going to be here for a really long time. There's nothing wrong with criticism, but a lot of the time its unfounded and flat out incorrect.

[flynismo]

If Michael Oher messed up there wasn't a chorus of posters coming to his defense saying, "he's in the wrong blocking scheme", or "our o line coach is terrible(until Castillo)", or "the play call doesn't fit Michael Oher."  He messes up and it's accepted.  Flacco makes a mistake damn near everyone else is blamed before the finger is pointed at him around here by most.  The Bills game was a perfect example where I saw people trying to nit pick all the ints he threw.  I never said anything was wrong with cheering for your team, but nothing is wrong in admitting their faults either.  Whatever, I'm a blind Flacco hater I guess who just wants to see the Ravens lose.  Even in this thread, most are boosting Flacco by just claiming Dalton sucks.  It wasn't too long ago we were the team with the questionable qb and look at how that turned out.

Well, there's a big difference between a mediocre player like Oher who rarely plays well to a guy like Flacco, who generally plays well.

Sometimes people do go overboard defending him.....the key word there is "defending" him. From the start Bulger threads. The start Tyrod threads. The "he isn't a leader" threads, or the "deer in headlight" comments, or the "pick up the pom-pom comments"...need I go on?