Can we now shut up about Joe Flacco's contract?

[redrum52]

There is no way any fan of football honestly think Dalton is better. They may say it, want it but it will never be true...

You mean like when people on this site say Flacco is better than Brady?

[SecretAgentMan]

The defense nearly gave up the SB ... Or has that too been forgotten?

It's weird that we've won a SB with our best and worst defense.... Just saying.

That defense was led by a 36 year old Ray Lewis and a 33 year old banged up Ed Reed who couldn't tackle anymore. Suggs wasn't the same dominant force he was the year before. Ngata got hurt and our entire line stopped trying after that. Jimmy Smith played a good game, but the rest of the defense was total crap that game. Basically that run. We won the SB in spite of our defense.

[1/28/01]

It's weird that we've won a SB with our best and worst defense.... Just saying.

That defense was led by a 36 year old Ray Lewis and a 33 year old banged up Ed Reed who couldn't tackle anymore. Suggs wasn't the same dominant force he was the year before. Ngata got hurt and our entire line stopped trying after that. Jimmy Smith played a good game, but the rest of the defense was total crap that game. Basically that run. We won the SB in spite of our defense.

Worst?

[SecretAgentMan]

Worst?

Worst defense of ours I remember anyway. I started watching around 2007, remember mostly everything about our seasons 08- onward.....

My point here is that our defense that year wasn't that good

[redrum52]

It's weird that we've won a SB with our best and worst defense.... Just saying.

That defense was led by a 36 year old Ray Lewis and a 33 year old banged up Ed Reed who couldn't tackle anymore. Suggs wasn't the same dominant force he was the year before. Ngata got hurt and our entire line stopped trying after that. Jimmy Smith played a good game, but the rest of the defense was total crap that game. Basically that run. We won the SB in spite of our defense.

Offense played great, for once, but let's not forget the D stifling the Colts offense, after ours couldn't get started early.  Or the defense shutting out Brady the 2nd half.  Or the pick 6(that shouldn't have counted) or the pick in OT against Denver.  The defense fell apart after the blackout and Ngata injury, but was looking stout the first half.  The only game you can really say the defense played bad was the SB and that was after Ngata went down.  The Denver game was high scoring, but the defense scored and put is in position for the game winning fg.  ST was what allowed that score to be so high.

[K-Dog]

I said it then, I will say it now.

If the super bowl was two minutes longer we would have lost.

[ratedr]

Other fans on different websites think Dalton is better. I can no longer root for him, just like Matt Ryan.

I've never seen anyone outside of Bengals fans say Dalton is better than Flacco.

[ratedr]

But on topic, now that the contract details are out, you all see why I said it was a smart deal?

[redrum52]

I said it then, I will say it now.

If the super bowl was two minutes longer we would have lost.

Not trying to get off topic, but that game is on the Niners OC.  That much time left, I'm running it down our throats.  I think it was 4 passes in a row, which was a terrible idea considering the building block of our run defense was out of the game.

[ratedr]

Not trying to get off topic, but that game is on the Niners OC. That much time left, I'm running it down our throats. I think it was 4 passes in a row, which was a terrible idea considering the building block of our run defense was out of the game.

Kaepernick had a 1 on 1 with Lewis before Jim Harbaugh called timeout on 2nd down. Without the timeout that's a TD for sure.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

That's what ratedr was saying.  The structure is a way so that if he under performs, I don't think the Bengals lose much by cutting him.  I think it's done the same was a Kaeps, where there isn't a lot of bonus money.

 

Yea, that's the first reaction in defense of Kaepernicks or Daltons contract.... this "pay as you go" idea, and how its much safer. But what if Kaepernick does underperform? It's pay him like a top 3 QB, or cut him and start over. There's no in between. So unless theyre supremely confident in their current backup, or one of these 2 guys flops so bad that they end up with the top pick and a sure fire college QB is coming out that year, then no it really doesn't safe guard the team too much.

 

At least with guaranteed money a team is forced NOT to over react to one bad season bc you're going to pay him a ton next year so might as well keep him and give it another shot.

 

--

 

Example is if the 49ers or Bengals go 8-8 next year or 7-9 and Kaepernick or Dalton have their worst year, are they going to cut the QB to save the money and hope a starter falls to them in the middle of the 1st? Doubtful. So you pay the guy the next year and continue to do so until there's a long enough track record of poor play (3 years) until it justifies blowing it up and restarting with someone else.

 

To me its just details. If you're devoted to winning and you have a QB whose gotten you closer than you were before him... you're going to keep paying him until he definitively convinces you he cant get there.

 

I guess the only real protection is against catastrophic, career ending injury...

[balfan23]

Perhaps we can shut up about it ... but others in the NFL world seem to be unable to:

 

http://grantland.com/features/the-2014-all-bad-nfl-contracts-team/

 

This was written July 24th of this year - before the Dalton contract - but I don't think that would change this perception. Perhaps this perception will change next year, if the Ravens field a rejuvenated offense in 2014 and the Bengals fall out of the playoffs.

 

I'm convinced that Flacco has to become a fantasy superstar (which is never going to happen and is a ridiculous measure of a QBs actual value) or will need to win a Super Bowl while in his current contract to shut these guys up.

 

Of these 2 choices, I'll take the latter :-)

[ellicottraven]

You mean like when people on this site say Flacco is better than Brady?

But isn't it already proven time and again that Flacco is better than Brady? He won a SB and SB MVP with no assistance from cameras. Why do you insist on comparing apples with oranges?

[redrum52]

But isn't it already proven time and again that Flacco is better than Brady? He won a SB and SB MVP with no assistance from cameras. Why do you insist on comparing apples with oranges?

Actually no, it hasn't.  Brady has 2 SB MVPS I think(3 rings as well with 5 appearances), a regular season MVP and one of the highest win percentages.  What makes Flacco better and how am I comparing apples to oranges? 

[flynismo]

But isn't it already proven time and again that Flacco is better than Brady? He won a SB and SB MVP with no assistance from cameras. Why do you insist on comparing apples with oranges?

Erm....I hope my sarcasm detector is broken or something...

We can say that if Flacco had that OL and Moss and Welker in their primes, he would have duplicated or exceeded Brady's performances....but that is speculation, not a proven fact.

 

Wouldn't mind finding out what Flacco could do with a great OL that allows him to make a sandwich before each pass attempt, and having Moss and Welker though 

[ratedr]

Perhaps we can shut up about it ... but others in the NFL world seem to be unable to:

http://grantland.com/features/the-2014-all-bad-nfl-contracts-team/

This was written July 24th of this year - before the Dalton contract - but I don't think that would change this perception. Perhaps this perception will change next year, if the Ravens field a rejuvenated offense in 2014 and the Bengals fall out of the playoffs.

I'm convinced that Flacco has to become a fantasy superstar (which is never going to happen and is a ridiculous measure of a QBs actual value) or will need to win a Super Bowl while in his current contract to shut these guys up.

Of these 2 choices, I'll take the latter :-)

Bill Barnwell is a known Flacco hater. Google "The Myth of Joe Flacco." Also note the date it was written and what happened later that season.

[flynismo]

Bill Barnwell is a known Flacco hater. Google "The Myth of Joe Flacco." Also note the date it was written and what happened later that season.

Holy crap.....I am now dumber for have reading that. Thanks (Bill) for making the world a stupider place.

 

Oh, and good call on pointing out the date of the article....funny how that worked out for him. Didn't look like the defense carried him very far.

[MARYLANDMIKE21224]

You guys are amazing pointing out daltons cast around him, if no Boldin no super bowl !!,Average Joe will suck again this year and then we will start looking for a new guy !!

[1/28/01]

But isn't it already proven time and again that Flacco is better than Brady? He won a SB and SB MVP with no assistance from cameras. Why do you insist on comparing apples with oranges?

This is the stuff that fuels the realists...I mean the haters, when it comes to Flacco. Wow!

[5aiah]

  You believe you're in the middle?  OK.....

On one side there are people who refuse to acknowledge a players weaknesses and faults, and try to put down those who do. Any critique of said player is met with disdain no matter how true it rings or how well backed it is by video/articles/stats/advanced grades. They call anyone disagreeing with them "haters".

 

On the other side there are people who irrationally hate a player or are trolling. They do the complete opposite, refusing to acknowledge strengths and backing their overly harsh critique with evidence that is mostly taken out of context. Cherry picking,misrepresenting, and strawman arguments are the norm. They say anyone disagreeing with them is making excuses or is a "homer".

 

You fit in with the former while I fit in with neither, I always try to get to the middle. 

 

Getting back to my original point, which was actually on point, can we shut up about Flacco's contract, and can we be the first to shut up about Dalton's?

[JoeyFlex5]

The Chargers sure, but those Texans teams were pretty good.

 

It's funny to me that people are so quick to get on a young qb while still coming with the same Flacco will break out this year excuse.  He got paid and so did our guy.  What difference does it make what they pay their guy and what we pay ours as long as we see results.

the bengals of the past 3 years have had a better defense than the ravens, dalton has much more tools in the passing game, a better Oline. you dont hear me saying flacco will break out, because i know what flacco is, he is a gifted qb in terms of natural ability, who plays the game manager role, but turns it up when its needed. we have ran a qb friendly, low risk type of offense since forever, dont fix what isnt broken, if it becomes apparent that we need to ride joes arm to a victory, then that is what we do, but if that isnt the case, then we feed our backs, because until last season our run game was very productive and it greatly reduces the risk of turnovers. its always been our winning formula and it still is, win the turnover battle, control the line of scrimmage, take a healthy amount of chances at a big play, i like our play action based gameplan much better than those teams that play small ball and pass 5-15 yards on every snap, a very good running game will always be able to perform much more consistently than a dink and dunk style offense.

[Tank 92]

The lack of respect for what Joe Flacco has accomplished with minimal weapons, is laughable. It's also laughable the number of people that seem to have good sense, but buy into the media hype and myth of Tom Brady. He WAS a good QB that benefitted from playing on some great teams coached by by a future HOF coach. Hearing his name mentioned with the likes of Unitas, Montana, Rodgers, etc. is a complete joke.

Dalton? I'm glad the bungles are hitching their wagon to that train(wreck).

[flynismo]

Perhaps we can shut up about it ... but others in the NFL world seem to be unable to:

 

http://grantland.com/features/the-2014-all-bad-nfl-contracts-team/

 

This was written July 24th of this year - before the Dalton contract - but I don't think that would change this perception. Perhaps this perception will change next year, if the Ravens field a rejuvenated offense in 2014 and the Bengals fall out of the playoffs.

 

I'm convinced that Flacco has to become a fantasy superstar (which is never going to happen and is a ridiculous measure of a QBs actual value) or will need to win a Super Bowl while in his current contract to shut these guys up.

 

Of these 2 choices, I'll take the latter :-)

It's a sad fact of life.

 

Another one of my all time favorite players, Steve McNair, was under-appreciated as well because he wasn't a fantasy hero. At least he wasn't outright disrespected like Joe.

[ellicottraven]

Actually no, it hasn't.  Brady has 2 SB MVPS I think(3 rings as well with 5 appearances), a regular season MVP and one of the highest win percentages.  What makes Flacco better and how am I comparing apples to oranges? 

Oh, the apples and oranges comparison was simply this: Flacco being vastly superior to Dalton (superior WR cast, superior O-line, recently better defensive performance, but yet never won in a playoff game - Apples (#true)

 

Brady being superior to Flacco (humbug, conjecture, media hype, great protection beneficiary, better receivers beneficiary, and help from cameras on opposing camps, but yet Flacco has comparable or better playoff stats) - Oranges (#false)

[BSHU_Miami]

I said it then, I will say it now.

If the super bowl was two minutes longer we would have lost.

it should've been an hour and a half shorter.

[5aiah]

it should've been an hour and a half shorter.

People forget the defense contributed to the big lead in the first place, upshaw causing the fumble. Then the lights went out, momentum crashed, and the Niners were able to storm back. At the end of the day the defense was no where near as bad as some make it out to have been. They literally beat Peyton head to head in OT and embarrassed the Patriots, holding them to Zero points in the 2nd half. Funny how the "haters" who aren't even fans of the team give the D the credit they deserve more than some guys around here. 

[redrum52]

Oh, the apples and oranges comparison was simply this: Flacco being vastly superior to Dalton (superior WR cast, superior O-line, recently better defensive performance, but yet never won in a playoff game - Apples (#true)

Brady being superior to Flacco (humbug, conjecture, media hype, great protection beneficiary, better receivers beneficiary, and help from cameras on opposing camps, but yet Flacco has comparable or better playoff stats) - Oranges (#false)

Whatever guy. And I guess Monroe is better than Ogden, Elam is the 2nd coming of Sean Taylor and Arthur Brown is already a much superior player to Ray Lewis. By the way, I guess Ray Lewis sucked too cause of all the talent he had around him on defense like Goose, Adams, C Mac, Woodson, McCray and Boulevard. While we're at it, Dilfer is a better qb than Marino as well cause he has a ring and all Marino did was put up those worthless guady stats.

[Tiz]

I said it then, I will say it now.

If the super bowl was two minutes longer we would have lost.

It wasn't and we didn't.

[ellicottraven]

Whatever guy. And I guess Monroe is better than Ogden, Elam is the 2nd coming of Sean Taylor and Arthur Brown is already a much superior player to Ray Lewis. By the way, I guess Ray Lewis sucked too cause of all the talent he had around him on defense like Goose, Adams, C Mac, Woodson, McCray and Boulevard. While we're at it, Dilfer is a better qb than Marino as well cause he has a ring and all Marino did was put up those worthless guady stats.

McCray and Boulevard? Really?

[redrum52]

McCray and Boulevard? Really?

 

I'll take the L for my auto correct, but my point is the same.  You couldn't debate the actual point of people being good with talent around them and that just winning a ring doesn't make the person better than their counterpart.