Can we now shut up about Joe Flacco's contract?

[52N19]

the bengals just shot themselves in the foot with a red rifle.

[H8R]

Really? Fumbles, missed audibles and picks by hariball....you don't remember any of that?

I mean, I'm all for backing OUR guy, but wow!

He won a heck of a lot more than he lost... That's what matters to me

[The Mom Gene]

More playoff game wins than any other QB in the NFL in his first 5 years...  but some forget that too... #convenience

[1/28/01]

I remember rushing for a TD against Miami, rushing for a huge 1st down in NE when he had a nasty leg injury, and a game-changing bomb to Derrick Mason against Tennessee as a rookie. Most improtantly, I remember the Ravens winning a lot of playoff games.

By his 3rd year, Flacco was in complete control. He didn't crap the bed like Dalton even though he was playing tougher teams.

Yeah, I remember those as well. I remember the good AND the bad. Nothing selective here.

[1/28/01]

He won a heck of a lot more than he lost... That's what matters to me

Ugh, yes he did. That wasn't what my response was about. It was to someone stating Flacco more or less never did anything to lose a playoff game. When that is not accurate.

[gabefergy]

Yeah, I remember those as well. I remember the good AND the bad. Nothing selective here.

Well the point is, he made the plays necessary to win games, something Dalton hasn't been able to do despite having a stronger supporting cast.

[gabefergy]

Ugh, yes he did. That wasn't what my response was about. It was to someone stating Flacco more or less never did anything to lose a playoff game. When that is not accurate.

Not what I said at all, but carry on.

[1/28/01]

Coby beat Bailey all night long.....

Bailey wasn't the DB that was referenced, but yes, TORREY smoked Bailey all game.

[5aiah]

So.. using QBR's and other stats are only relevant when they convey your point... and not, conveniently when they don't...  That is the one thing I hate about stats, and the people who use them...  And, that, was my entire point.  Flacco had an awesome postseason, and yet people always try to downplay it when they want to argue his inconsistencies....  ALWAYS.  Even when he plays lights out Football.

We all use stats, all of us, lumping in everyone with people who use the bad/inefficient stats is disingenuous. In this discussion I'm not even talking about stats so i have no idea where you are even coming from, you're arguing against something I'm not supporting as i have little idea what you even mean by using stats. My previous post proves that I look far beyond stats or I would have claimed Flacco outplayed those guys just like you did, you're the one stuck to general/bad/inefficient stats it seems. Yes I have a standard for stats, just because a QB gets better stats than another QB because he played a weaker defense doesn't mean he outplayed him in my book. If that's what you mean by using stats conveniently then I guess we are at an impasse, but to be clear I'm not the one who said a thing about stats in the first place.

 

Yeah Flacco had an awesome postseason, I don't know any person on the earth who've said otherwise, in fact even the Flacco haters admit this(they just claim that's the only time he's been good) so I don't even understand why you bring that up. It seems like you're way off point in the discussion between you and I, or you need to get something off your chest in a Flacco conversation with someone else because I'm not even talking about inconsistency. What is lights out football to you? Most of your points have to do with having a different standard than other people, than "they". I'm not downplaying his flawless run, I'm just tired of people like you downplaying the Defense's role in the run by making it seem like it was a one man show while the other extreme claims Flacco is a scrub and lucked into that great run(Fluke-O). The defense stepped up big time(Ray's return was a big part of that as were role players who topped their potential) special teams stepped up(Jacoby did his thing and got great blocking) the offense stepped up(Flacco found more confidence, control, and focus, the line was solidified, and the offensive scheme clicked). Every little thing came together for us, that's how we won.    

[1/28/01]

Not what I said at all, but carry on.

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

Dude, its just about verbatim.

[Tiz]

the bengals just shot themselves in the foot with a red rifle.

You haven't read the details huh

[gabefergy]

Dude, its just about verbatim.

Ok, he obviously didn't win every game he played. Compared to Dalton he took his team much further. Sorry, I figured I didn't need to spell things out.

[H8R]

Ugh, yes he did. That wasn't what my response was about. It was to someone stating Flacco more or less never did anything to lose a playoff game. When that is not accurate.

What QB hasn't though ... Joes mistakes are magnified, by everyone in the country just about...

[1/28/01]

Ok, he obviously didn't win every game he played. Compared to Dalton he took his team much further. Sorry, I figured I didn't need to spell things out.

No need to resort to your standard condescending tone. I don't need it.

I was just reading what you stated for face value.

[1/28/01]

What QB hasn't though ... Joes mistakes are magnified, by everyone in the country just about...

Of course. They all do. AND there are those who magnify his flaws and those who sidestep them. This was a subtle example that I was referring to. That's all.

[gabefergy]

No need to resort to your standard condescending tone. I don't need it.

I was just reading what you stated for face value.

I'll be sure to spell it out for you in the future.

[H8R]

Of course. They all do. AND there are those who magnify his flaws and those who sidestep them. This was a subtle example that I was referring to. That's all.

I hear ya man

! It takes a heck of a lot for me to even PARTIALLY agree with GF . Lol

[1/28/01]

I'll be sure to spell it out for you in the future.

No need. Just say/type what you mean and I'll surely understand you.

Edit - Not speaking in absolutes would help as well.

[H8R]

No need. Just say/type what you mean and I'll surely understand you.

Edit - Not speaking in absolutes would help as well.

The edit is critical!

[gabefergy]

No need. Just say/type what you mean and I'll surely understand you.

Edit - Not speaking in absolutes would help as well.

 I'm just trying to make the comparison to Dalton here, and their relative successes/failures early in their careers. Flacco was far from perfect as a young QB, but he still helped his team win. Dalton has done nothing but hurt his team's chances.

 

Now, Flacco's play was certainly a big reason why the Ravens did not get to the SB, especially as a rookie and sophomore. He was clearly overmatched against the Steelers and had a bad game against Indy as well.

[gabefergy]

I hear ya man

! It takes a heck of a lot for me to even PARTIALLY agree with GF . Lol

This is the truth haha

[1/28/01]

I'm just trying to make the comparison to Dalton here, and their relative successes/failures early in their careers. Flacco was far from perfect as a young QB, but he still helped his team win. Dalton has done nothing but hurt his team's chances.

Now, Flacco's play was certainly a big reason why the Ravens did not get to the SB, especially as a rookie and sophomore. He was clearly overmatched against the Steelers and had a bad game against Indy as well.

Sweet. I was hoping to not get in a pissing match with you. Just don't have the energy or the drinks handy to go round and round. This above I can agree with 100%!

[The Mom Gene]

We all use stats, all of us, lumping in everyone with people who use the bad/inefficient stats is disingenuous. In this discussion I'm not even talking about stats so i have no idea where you are even coming from, you're arguing against something I'm not supporting as i have little idea what you even mean by using stats. My previous post proves that I look far beyond stats or I would have claimed Flacco outplayed those guys just like you did, you're the one stuck to general/bad/inefficient stats it seems. Yes I have a standard for stats, just because a QB gets better stats than another QB because he played a weaker defense doesn't mean he outplayed him in my book. If that's what you mean by using stats conveniently then I guess we are at an impasse, but to be clear I'm not the one who said a thing about stats in the first place.

 

Yeah Flacco had an awesome postseason, I don't know any person on the earth who've said otherwise, in fact even the Flacco haters admit this(they just claim that's the only time he's been good) so I don't even understand why you bring that up. It seems like you're way off point in the discussion between you and I, or you need to get something off your chest in a Flacco conversation with someone else because I'm not even talking about inconsistency. What is lights out football to you? Most of your points have to do with having a different standard than other people, than "they". I'm not downplaying his flawless run, I'm just tired of people like you downplaying the Defense's role in the run by making it seem like it was a one man show while the other extreme claims Flacco is a scrub and lucked into that great run(Fluke-O). The defense stepped up big time(Ray's return was a big part of that as were role players who topped their potential) special teams stepped up(Jacoby did his thing and got great blocking) the offense stepped up(Flacco found more confidence, control, and focus, the line was solidified, and the offensive scheme clicked). Every little thing came together for us, that's how we won.    

My point is that no matter what he does, no matter what the numbers say, no matter what the record...  no matter how many rings...  haters gonna hate is all.  For some, there's no changing their minds... But I'll take Flacco any day as my Franchise QB...  You can have Dalton

[H8R]

The defense nearly gave up the SB ... Or has that too been forgotten?

[Ravenseconbeast]

the bengals just shot themselves in the foot with a red rifle.

 

Not really.  They are paying Dalton 23m this year.  Next year his guaranteed $ is done with.   If he stinks it up, his done with.  

It was a smart move on Bengals part.  They gave him the ultimatum, and Bengals just basically look like the good guys off of this deal.  They can dump him without any repercussions(dalton fans and media alike)

[5aiah]

My point is that no matter what he does, no matter what the numbers say, no matter what the record...  no matter how many rings...  haters gonna hate is all.  For some, there's no changing their minds... But I'll take Flacco any day as my Franchise QB...  You can have Dalton

Being on an extreme side and calling the middle haters doesn't make it so. I'll take Flacco as a Ravens style QB who fits our philosophy, I'd take Rodgers for a WC offense, Peyton for all out aerial assault, Hustle Russel for running and gunning. Just because fans are willing to categorize, rate, or call out weaknesses of a certain QB doesn't automatically make them a hater. You extreme guys get caught up in your homerism and hating that you forget there's common ground to be had.

 

The point about Dalton is that his contract isn't as bad as some made it out to be and every new piece of information proves its genius and could be the best way going forward. To compare him and Flacco in terms of playoff wins and use that against Dalton getting a contract is missing the point because the people making the decisions don't do that. The Ravens didn't feel like Joe was worth what he got for a very good reason, Joe forced their hand with such a great play and winning a ring. Combined with the fact that a QB of his talents don't grow on trees and there was no way to get anyone close to him at the time, the Ravens avoided being probably the first team in history to let both SB winning QBs walk. Dalton won't see anywhere near all that money unless he delivers like Flacco does, its just weird people here jumped all over the Dalton deal, without knowing a thing, after what we went through with Flacco.     

[ellicottraven]

Easily! I think about it all the time (and it's not slight on Torrey) but what would it be like if we had a top WR like an AJ Green, Dez Bryant type character? Few QB's can make the throws Flacco can. 

Dez Bryant was stolen from right under our noses by Dr. Evil himself (Jerry Jones)!!

[The Mom Gene]

Being on an extreme side and calling the middle haters doesn't make it so. I'll take Flacco as a Ravens style QB who fits our philosophy, I'd take Rodgers for a WC offense, Peyton for all out aerial assault, Hustle Russel for running and gunning. Just because fans are willing to categorize, rate, or call out weaknesses of a certain QB doesn't automatically make them a hater. You extreme guys get caught up in your homerism and hating that you forget there's common ground to be had.

 

The point about Dalton is that his contract isn't as bad as some made it out to be and every new piece of information proves its genius and could be the best way going forward. To compare him and Flacco in terms of playoff wins and use that against Dalton getting a contract is missing the point because the people making the decisions don't do that. The Ravens didn't feel like Joe was worth what he got for a very good reason, Joe forced their hand with such a great play and winning a ring. Combined with the fact that a QB of his talents don't grow on trees and there was no way to get anyone close to him at the time, the Ravens avoided being probably the first team in history to let both SB winning QBs walk. Dalton won't see anywhere near all that money unless he delivers like Flacco does, its just weird people here jumped all over the Dalton deal, without knowing a thing, after what we went through with Flacco.     

  You believe you're in the middle?  OK.....

[Static]

Other fans on different websites think Dalton is better. I can no longer root for him, just like Matt Ryan.

[ellicottraven]

Other fans on different websites think Dalton is better. I can no longer root for him, just like Matt Ryan.

There is no way any fan of football honestly think Dalton is better. They may say it, want it but it will never be true...