Can we now shut up about Joe Flacco's contract?

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Flacco doesn't need to break out. He's already proven he's worthy of a big contract. Dalton on the other hand has never done anything except melt under pressure. He doesn't have the physical tools to overcome difficulties, and he clearly doesn't have the poise you want in a QB.

 

I think when most people say "break out" now they mean make the next jump from being in the Roethlisberger,Rivers,Ryan,Romo and Eli group into the Rodgers,Brady,Manning and Brees group.Atleast that's what I mean when I say I want him to have a break out year.

[gabefergy]

I think when most people say "break out" now they mean make the next jump from being in the Roethlisberger,Rivers,Ryan,Romo and Eli group into the Rodgers,Brady,Manning and Brees group.Atleast that's what I mean when I say I want him to have a break out year.

It would be nice to see that, but he's good enough for the Ravens to win with him consistently. If he gets even better that's awesome.

[5aiah]

I think when most people say "break out" now they mean make the next jump from being in the Roethlisberger,Rivers,Ryan,Romo and Eli group into the Rodgers,Brady,Manning and Brees group.Atleast that's what I mean when I say I want him to have a break out year.

I'd say most football fans I've come across recently have acknowledged that Rivers is back in the latter group. I would love Flacco to break out for good but I don't think he's that QB nor do I think he needs to be for us to win SBs. 

[callahan09]

That last game of the season was telling for me.  Dalton had much better receivers than Flacco, he had a better defense, he was playing at home, he was playing healthy (Flacco was suffering still from a knee injury suffered 2 games prior), and he had more productive running backs, and his performance wasn't really that much better.  4 interceptions.   He also had a real offensive coordinator calling the plays.  Let's face it, coach Caldwell is a quality NFL coach, but he is not a play caller nor is he a play designer.  It was a disaster having him as the architect of our offense.  That final game of the season showed that he was completely out of his depth trying to draw up plays that suited the personnel we had and given the state of Flacco's knee, it was just a pathetic job done calling the plays.  Those last 2 games of the season after Flacco's knee went kaput, it was just a travesty of game planning and play calling that led to probably the 2 worst offensive flops in the history of the Harbaugh-led Ravens.

[gabefergy]

That last game of the season was telling for me.  Dalton had much better receivers than Flacco, he had a better defense, he was playing at home, he was playing healthy (Flacco was suffering still from a knee injury suffered 2 games prior), and he had more productive running backs, and his performance wasn't really that much better.  4 interceptions.   He also had a real offensive coordinator calling the plays.  Let's face it, coach Caldwell is a quality NFL coach, but he is not a play caller nor is he a play designer.  It was a disaster having him as the architect of our offense.  That final game of the season showed that he was completely out of his depth trying to draw up plays that suited the personnel we had and given the state of Flacco's knee, it was just a pathetic job done calling the plays.  Those last 2 games of the season after Flacco's knee went kaput, it was just a travesty of game planning and play calling that led to probably the 2 worst offensive flops in the history of the Harbaugh-led Ravens.

It's hard to call plays when you can't run the ball and your QB is hurt. I'm not going to crucify Caldwell for that catastrophe. The Ravens simply didn't have the players to make it work last year. 

[The Mom Gene]

It's hard to call plays when you can't run the ball and your QB is hurt. I'm not going to crucify Caldwell for that catastrophe. The Ravens simply didn't have the players to make it work last year. 

Ding Ding Ding...  and coming in a close second is Gabe....  I agree with this more than anything.  We had no O-Line, by the end of the season, we had a QB with more sacks, more interceptions, and more hits than any other QB in the league (except Eli who had 22 to Joe's 21).  Our running game sucked because of our O-Line, and said QB was gimping with a bad knee and shoulder by game 14.....

 

Dalton has consistently had good protection, great receivers, and a consistent and decent defense....  This guy should not have gotten this kind of contract yet...  but hey, let the Bungles pay him....  Their loss.

[gabefergy]

So Dalton's contract isn't actually that bad. 17M guaranteed, pay as you go. They can cut him if he doesn't get it done without many repercussions. Pretty much what he should be getting.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/andy-dalton/

[redrum52]

I bet the same people negging me and saying how crazy it is to pay Dalton, are the same people who initially said you pay a qb by their market value.

[redrum52]

So Dalton's contract isn't actually that bad. 17M guaranteed, pay as you go. They can cut him if he doesn't get it done without many repercussions. Pretty much what he should be getting.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/andy-dalton/

That's what ratedr was saying.  The structure is a way so that if he under performs, I don't think the Bengals lose much by cutting him.  I think it's done the same was a Kaeps, where there isn't a lot of bonus money.

[gabefergy]

That's what ratedr was saying.  The structure is a way so that if he under performs, I don't think the Bengals lose much by cutting him.  I think it's done the same was a Kaeps, where there isn't a lot of bonus money.

Yeah, they can cut him even after 2014 and only take roughly ~10M cap hit. It's unlikely that they would  cut him immediately, but in a couple seasons if he hasn't produced he is done.

[Tiz]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

Think some forgot how pedestrian joe was at times in those earlier playoff games.

[gabefergy]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

Think some forgot how pedestrian joe was at times in those earlier playoff games.

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

[The Mom Gene]

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

Again, I would suggest that it's not about stats....  It's about wins and losses.....  92 yard drive with less than 2 minutes left on the clock against the Steelers... during some of those mundane/pedestrian moments..... I remember that one well.

[PolishRifle]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog/post/

Think some forgot how pedestrian joe was at times in those earlier playoff games.

 

I don't know. Yeah, statistically Joe's first 3 years don't look as good as the last 2 playoff runs, but he still made some big plays here and there, so you could see flashes of greatness (not, that even the biggest Flacco fans saw 2012 coming). 

I don't remember ANY moments like those with Dalton and he has had an arguably better team in all his years with the Bengals than Joe ever had in Baltimore (especially with AJ Green as his WR).

And, most importantly, we signed Joe after he proved himself and even, if we would've signed him a whole years earlier (like I wanted) we still would've had that great AFCCG (damn you Cundiff!) as credible proof, that Joe can play really well in big games.

 

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

 

I hate to quote Skip Bayless, but Dalton doesn't pass the "eye test" for me in the playoffs. You really have to show, that you can create plays out of nowhere sometimes, when your team needs you to. For now, we only know, that Dalton plays well, when he's surrounded by greatness and everything is going according to plan and there's relatively little pressure on him.

Will he ever heave a deep ball over the head of a out of position safety in Denver spoiling Peyton Mannings comeback? I'm not so sure about that.

[JO_75]

Matt Ryan: $103M over 5 years

 

Tony Romo: $108M over 6 years

 

Andy Dalton: $115M over 6 years

 

Total: $326M

 

Playoff Wins: 2

 

Super Bowls: 0

 

 

Joe Flacco: $120M over 6 years

 

Playoff Wins: 9

 

Super Bowls: 1

 

Enough Said.

[Tiz]

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

Primarily because we didn't allow the ball in his hands

And we played well rhodes football so we didnt need to,

I like joe a lot so its not about putting him down but about showing that while everyone says dalton is crap because his first three playoff games he's young and there's plenty of time for him to unfortunately get it together

[redrum52]

Matt Ryan: $103M over 5 years

 

Tony Romo: $108M over 6 years

 

Andy Dalton: $115M over 6 years

 

Total: $326M

 

Playoff Wins: 2

 

Super Bowls: 0

 

 

Joe Flacco: $120M over 6 years

 

Playoff Wins: 9

 

Super Bowls: 1

 

Enough Said.

Would you say then that Terry Bradshaw is the 2nd greatest qb ever?

[PolishRifle]

Primarily because we didn't allow the ball in his hands

And we played well rhodes football so we didnt need to,

I like joe a lot so its not about putting him down but about showing that while everyone says dalton is crap because his first three playoff games he's young and there's plenty of time for him to unfortunately get it together

 

It takes time for any QB to mature. Big Ben only technically "won" his first SB. In reality, the Steelers basically won it in spite of him. The problem is that the Bengals are just SO loaded everywhere and you still struggle to find even one memorable play made by Dalton in the playoffs, when he has AJ freaking Green.

I understand the Bengal's reasoning: Don't allow the guy to bet on himself and win out like Joe did. If he wins, this contract will be a bargain. But there is nothing exciting about Dalton as a QB. He doesn't have Ben's ability to buy time in and outside the pocket or Flacco's talent to make huge gamebreaking plays out of nowhere. Atleast that's my opinion. Maybe I'm just drunk on that purple drank.

[TDubbs]

The problem is that the Bengals are just SO loaded everywhere and you still struggle to find even one memorable play made by Dalton in the playoffs, when he has AJ freaking Green.

 

Flacco is far superior to Dalton in every single category (Dalton has him on that beautiful fire red hair-do lol) it's not even close. Put Flacco on last years Bengals team with AJ Green, that O-Line and that sick defense? C'mon man ... They might rival the 2007 Patriots. 

[ellicottraven]

Flacco is far superior to Dalton in every single category (Dalton has him on that beautiful fire red hair-do lol) it's not even close. Put Flacco on last years Bengals team with AJ Green, that O-Line and that sick defense? C'mon man ... They might rival the 2007 Patriots. 

With A.J. Green and Flacco's arm, the Bengals would be defending SB champs!

[1/28/01]

I remember him not losing games and making key plays in important moments.

Really? Fumbles, missed audibles and picks by hariball....you don't remember any of that?

I mean, I'm all for backing OUR guy, but wow!

[JO_75]

Would you say then that Terry Bradshaw is the 2nd greatest qb ever?

 

What does Bradshaw have to do with what I posted? Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls, and unlike Dalton he took advantage of having that great Steel Curtain D. Dalton... well loaded team and hasn't won a playoff game. Come on.

[ellicottraven]

What does Bradshaw have to do with what I posted? Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls, and unlike Dalton he took advantage of having that great Steel Curtain D. Dalton... well loaded team and hasn't won a playoff game. Come on.

I agree that Dalton shouldn't be compared with any playoff winning QB period because he's demonstrated that a strong defense and great players still can't carry Dalton over the playoff hump. I suspect he'll make sure the Bengals miss the playoffs this season too...

[TDubbs]

With A.J. Green and Flacco's arm, the Bengals would be defending SB champs!

 

Easily! I think about it all the time (and it's not slight on Torrey) but what would it be like if we had a top WR like an AJ Green, Dez Bryant type character? Few QB's can make the throws Flacco can. 

[redrum52]

Really? Fumbles, missed audibles and picks by hariball....you don't remember any of that?

I mean, I'm all for backing OUR guy, but wow!

 

Short memory here.  He didn't do much in his rookie campaign and gave away the game to the Steelers.  2nd playoff run I could've done what Joe did(handing the ball to Rice).  4-10 with a pick.  He didn't really show anything until the Chiefs game and that was in jeopardy until Cody took out Charles.  Dalton has been asked to do more than Joe and people seem to forget how much we struggled with those same Texans.  Those same Texans we easily could've lost to.

What does Bradshaw have to do with what I posted? Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls, and unlike Dalton he took advantage of having that great Steel Curtain D. Dalton... well loaded team and hasn't won a playoff game. Come on.

My point was you can't just look at rings and salary and determine the better player.  Better teams and better situations can help a qb.  Romo as much as I don't like him is set up to fail.  His defense is terrible and his offensive lines have been atrocious.  He constantly puts his team ahead so when he does make that critical error, that's what's looked at most. The truth is, they aren't in that game if not for him.

[5aiah]

I don't know. Yeah, statistically Joe's first 3 years don't look as good as the last 2 playoff runs, but he still made some big plays here and there, so you could see flashes of greatness (not, that even the biggest Flacco fans saw 2012 coming). 

I don't remember ANY moments like those with Dalton and he has had an arguably better team in all his years with the Bengals than Joe ever had in Baltimore (especially with AJ Green as his WR).

I don't think this is true at all. He's had a deeper offense but those who look close would say not even a better offense despite being more talented than any Raven offense. Maybe we need to go back to the tape but the entire bengal offense freezes up, not just Dalton. AJ Green, who you guys keep praising, isn't the same in the playoffs yet, he runs bad routes and drops passes at times, he admitted this himself according to bengals fans. A lot of the argument against Dalton is based on reputation of the Bengals talent and not reality come playoff time. Anquan Boldin is ten times better than AJ Green in the playoffs and despite what some want to believe, the playoff revival of the Defense and return of Ray Lewis is what mainly propelled the Ravens from a stumbling bumbling outfit to SB champs. The resulting balance due to the offense finding the right mix on the line and confidence in both Flacco and the play calling was also crucial. It wasn't just some Flacco turned into superman and the Ravens lived happily ever after story. A lot of things resulted in that championship run and to hold a QB to that standard that Flacco and co set just isn't going to fly in today's QB ruling NFL. Maybe Dalton will get thrown into Flacco's situation this year, with the team coming together all at the right time, and then we can judge him and his contract. This deal(depending on the specifics) might be a huge steal and entirely safe for the Bengals. We just don't fully know all the details of the contract yet.

[Ravenseconbeast]

So Dalton's contract isn't actually that bad. 17M guaranteed, pay as you go. They can cut him if he doesn't get it done without many repercussions. Pretty much what he should be getting.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/andy-dalton/

his getting 22.3m this year. So any guaranteed $ next year is done with.

Pretty much can get rid of him after 2014. $97m is a # Andy will never see..

[Cillmatic]

Joe flacco had no O-line, no receiver and no run game but still managed to win as many playoff games as Dalton did last season. Flacco>>>>>>>>>>>>>∞>>>>>>>>>Dalton

[redrum52]

That is the truth. Flacco had the Ravens defense when it was still a Top 5 Defense in the NFL easily. An O-Line and running game that could rival any team. Flacco did struggle mightily in those playoff games (honestly can't blame him for those Polamalu fumbles though). Maybe Dalton has been asked to do more, but Flacco never had the WR core that Dalton has had. 

I'll give you the wr core.  We've never had the most athletic guys, but we've had smart and for the most part reliable wrs.  I know when I say that people will think of Clayton, the Boldin drop against Pit and Evans, but for the most part our guys know what they're doing.  That's a trade off you usually make though when you're building a young team.  You will have to deal with the growing pains.  They don't have anyone there to really lead those guys except for the young guys.  Flacco has had Masons, Heaps and Boldin's to teach the guys coming up under them, as well as himself.

[PolishRifle]

 Defense and return of Ray Lewis is what mainly propelled the Ravens from a stumbling bumbling outfit to SB champs. 

 

Our secondary made good plays in some crucial moments of our playoff run (we were great in the redzone), but the defense also gave up a huge lead the Ravens offense gained in the first half and much of that is on Lewis. 

 

 

Ray's return was not the factor in the playoffs everyone makes it out to be (I would say we won it in spite of him), even if it sounds like a nice story. Flacco and Boldin deserve most of the credit for that SB (by FAR), imho. Followed by our secondary and Jacoby.