Training Camp Comments, Questions and Concerns

[Moderator 3]

no harm to you but setting the tone in drills doesn't correlate to leadership.

Of course it does. Anytime you get people to follow, you're leading. As another of your posts says, leadership comes in many forms.

I'll give you another quiet example. Yesterday the players were moving from one field to another for a drill change. The QBs were all together and walking over to the other field. Without word Flacco started jogging to the field. Taylor and Wenning clearly looked at each other then started jogging, too. Then everyone behind them started jogging. Yes, it's a small example but the truth is leaders often lead by doing. All it takes is for people to follow.

[redrum52]

I never said to be a Ray Lewis type leader, I just said leader.  I have no idea what happens in the locker room and if he is or isn't.  I'm just saying he needs to a be a leader, however he does it.  The team needs to be able to look at him in some way and be able to trust that he will do what needs to be done and have a certain amount of faith in him.  Also, every team doesn't need a Ray Lewis leader.  Sometimes something simple will get the guys ready for what needs to be done.  I feel a good leader should have a pulse of the team and be able to keep them together, however they do it.

[arnie_uk]

Again. Working hard at drills should be a prerequisite. I bet that cb competing for a spot on the ps works hard in drills but that doesn't make him a leader.

A leader in regards drills would be noticing those than can give that wee bit more and encouraging them to do so.

[Moderator 3]

Again. Working hard at drills should be a prerequisite. I bet that cb competing for a spot on the ps works hard in drills but that doesn't make him a leader.

A leader in regards drills would be noticing those than can give that wee bit more and encouraging them to do so.

Define "working hard". Seriously, that is subjective. The leaders define it by how they do it. When Ngata goes first through the cone drill, he sets the pace and expectations. That's leadership. Our fervent hope is that it's good leadership.

[arnie_uk]

Define "working hard". Seriously, that is subjective. The leaders define it by how they do it. When Ngata goes first through the cone drill, he sets the pace and expectations. That's leadership. Our fervent hope is that it's good leadership.

personally don't think so. Again training hard, giving your all is a pre requisite. If your not you won't be on a 53. I've played sport with people that would barely speak 2 words when not communicating on a pitch and is involved in nothing off the pitch but they could be the best trainers, doesn't make em a leader

[The Raven]

personally don't think so. Again training hard, giving your all is a pre requisite. If your not you won't be on a 53. I've played sport with people that would barely speak 2 words when not communicating on a pitch and is involved in nothing off the pitch but they could be the best trainers, doesn't make em a leader

 

With you on that

[arnie_uk]

With you on that

ive been a captain in both rugby and soccer and I can safely say my training ability or lack thereof wasn't why I was picked for it.

And it was why I picked other people for a role of captain. At schoolboy level rugby eveyone in the squad had a vote for captain

[The Mom Gene]

I have always thought that was the reason Harbaugh doesn't pick captains...  all are one.  They do expect the leaders to lead... and they hope that the younger players can ultimately lead as well.

[Ravensfan23]

im played various sports snd various levels and training hard is a prerequisite, not a sign of leadership

yes it is. Really no point in debating seeing how there is no set characteristics of leadership. But nobody is gonna follow anyone that hasn't proven they can do it first. I don't care if it's business, sports, or life in general. You don't see it as leadership then fine, but that doesn't mean it's not seen as leadership to the guys who follow it.

 

One of the most common things the Ravens are praised for is the way they "work". This comes from 10+ year vets who come from other programs, so if you think that guys like Suggs, Ngata and who every else "setting the tone" in practice isn't a sign of leadership within the Ravens organization then I have to strongly disagree. Does this make those guys great leaders? No not this alone to say it isn't a sign of leadership is very wrong to me.

 

Again I don't care if you are on a field or in a board room. The guy who sets the tone is very much need and in most cases he or she is the one who leaders the pack.

[Ravensfan23]

ive been a captain in both rugby and soccer and I can safely say my training ability or lack thereof wasn't why I was picked for it.

And it was why I picked other people for a role of captain. At schoolboy level rugby eveyone in the squad had a vote for captain

 

 

Did you play rugby or soccer at a professional level?

 

Again as you said leadership comes in many different forms. Yes working hard is required but there is a reason that players from other teams praise the way the Ravens "work". There is a reason why guys like Cary Williams and Pollard went to other teams and basically said guys weren't working hard enough compared to what the Ravens do.

 

Leadership isn't one thing. If Ray Lewis was a in your fact guy, always talking about my guys this my team that, but he didn't work hard and set the tone at practice, I doubt if he would have been regarded as the leader he is. Guys like Peyton Manning even spoke to how a guy like Ray Lewis makes you want to practice hard even in a Pro Bowl. Things like that matter. Is it all that leadership is? NO but it matters.

[arnie_uk]

Setting the tone doesn't make you a leader. While its probably a key attribute, to say, as the post I quoted did, that bevause they set the tone means we don't have to worry abiut leadership is a joke.

Tone setting doesn't correlate to a great leader removing concerns peiole have about lack of leadership. Im sure they sey the tone last year at TC as well and yet here we are a year later still having discussions about leadership. If tone setting equals leadership we wouldn't hsve a perceived leadership issue.

Im sure joe flacco works his butt off leads by example and set the tone on offensive drills yet suggs, the so called tone setter still says we need more from him. But hang on, yous say tone setting is leadership.

[arnie_uk]

Did you play rugby or soccer at a professional level?

Again as you said leadership comes in many different forms. Yes working hard is required but there is a reason that players from other teams praise the way the Ravens "work". There is a reason why guys like Cary Williams and Pollard went to other teams and basically said guys weren't working hard enough compared to what the Ravens do.

Leadership isn't one thing. If Ray Lewis was a in your fact guy, always talking about my guys this my team that, but he didn't work hard and set the tone at practice, I doubt if he would have been regarded as the leader he is. Guys like Peyton Manning even spoke to how a guy like Ray Lewis makes you want to practice hard even in a Pro Bowl. Things like that matter. Is it all that leadership is? NO but it matters.

what difference does it make what level i played at. A leader is a leader at any level.

Your actually helping my argument. A blanket comment was made that because suggs and ngata are setting the tone we don't have to worry about leadership. In other words tone setters equal leadership. As I said, key attribute, but tone setting, training hard et all are prerequisites for athletes.

Its other qualities like motivation, staying calm under pressure, communication, etc that are KEY attributes of leaders. Not training hard imo

[arnie_uk]

To make myself clear. 2 identical leaders, one sets the tone, another doesn't. Of course you follow the tone setter.

But to claim we don't have to worry about leadership bevause a few experienced heads set the tone isn't remotely true at all. You could argue that's just experience, not leadership.

Also, A leader doesn't have to be experienced. Mosley could come in and lead immediately as a rookie.

[Tank 92]

Did you play rugby or soccer at a professional level?

 

Again as you said leadership comes in many different forms. Yes working hard is required but there is a reason that players from other teams praise the way the Ravens "work". There is a reason why guys like Cary Williams and Pollard went to other teams and basically said guys weren't working hard enough compared to what the Ravens do.

 

Leadership isn't one thing. If Ray Lewis was a in your fact guy, always talking about my guys this my team that, but he didn't work hard and set the tone at practice, I doubt if he would have been regarded as the leader he is. Guys like Peyton Manning even spoke to how a guy like Ray Lewis makes you want to practice hard even in a Pro Bowl. Things like that matter. Is it all that leadership is? NO but it matters.

 

 

All of these guys were leaders in some way at the school level or they wouldn't have made it to the top. Being a leader of a sport's team at the professional level is obviously a step up and as you say, is a combination of many different attributes, one of which is leading by example. This could mean showing the extra bit of hustle, paying extra attention to small details, knowing when to speak up and when to shut up, etc. all of which have a greater effect when coming from a seasoned vet. It's teaching the young guys how to function at the professional level.

 

I doubt there is another Ray Lewis type(at least at his level) in the NFL today.  To think that someone on the Ravens squad is going to fill those shoes is not realistic, and I don't know that you really need that "one guy".  If you have veteran leadership scattered throughout the squad and are well prepared, success will follow.  

[bMore Heathen]

Setting the tone doesn't make you a leader. While its probably a key attribute, to say, as the post I quoted did, that bevause they set the tone means we don't have to worry abiut leadership is a joke.

Tone setting doesn't correlate to a great leader removing concerns peiole have about lack of leadership. Im sure they sey the tone last year at TC as well and yet here we are a year later still having discussions about leadership. If tone setting equals leadership we wouldn't hsve a perceived leadership issue.

Im sure joe flacco works his butt off leads by example and set the tone on offensive drills yet suggs, the so called tone setter still says we need more from him. But hang on, yous say tone setting is leadership.

While "working hard" may not make you a leader in the classical sense, it's not a coincidence that all great leaders work hard. It's really semantics.

[arnie_uk]

While "working hard" may not make you a leader in the classical sense, it's not a coincidence that all great leaders work hard. It's really semantics.

no it's not. But the post said we don't need to worry about leadership because experienced players are setting the tone.

Tone setting and working hard don't correlate to leadership. Its as you said more or less a prerequisite of a leader. They all have that attribute. Its those other attributes that separate hard trainers or experienced guys from the actual "leaders".

There is however no correct formula for leadership and often no one person is tbe prefect leader. A leadership by committee so to speak is probably where this team is at atm.

[ratedr]

What an odd debate

[BmoreBird22]

I'm gonna chime in here, but if you're setting the tone of practice or a game, that makes you a leader in a sense because it means other players are following your intensity and passion for practice.

It's not the end all be all or only trait of a leader, but it's a good one

[arnie_uk]

What an odd debate

leadership? I think its an interesting one

[Ravensfan23]

what difference does it make what level i played at. A leader is a leader at any level.

Your actually helping my argument. A blanket comment was made that because suggs and ngata are setting the tone we don't have to worry about leadership. In other words tone setters equal leadership. As I said, key attribute, but tone setting, training hard et all are prerequisites for athletes.

Its other qualities like motivation, staying calm under pressure, communication, etc that are KEY attributes of leaders. Not training hard imo

 

Just taking an interest that's all.

[rmw10]

Congrats to both of you guys. I know you guys will have a great time. Of course we expect full detailed reports from what you see. lol

 

Thanks!  It looks like the rain will hold off so we can at least get some practice viewing in.

[ratedr]

Thanks! It looks like the rain will hold off so we can at least get some practice viewing in.

Oh you're one of the people who won passes? Definitely give us detailed, unbiased reports.

[rmw10]

Oh you're one of the people who won passes? Definitely give us detailed, unbiased reports.

 

I plan on it. I'll be paying particular attention to the secondary of course being that it's the biggest wildcard on the team.  Expect my opinion on every positional group though.

[Tank 92]

Thanks!  It looks like the rain will hold off so we can at least get some practice viewing in.

 

 

Be sure to post a report tonight. 

[Ravensfan23]

Thanks!  It looks like the rain will hold off so we can at least get some practice viewing in.

 

Yea I won't be out at the Castle until Aug 3rd. So we'll have the open practice to see the team, but you'll be their on the 2nd day of hitting, so all hands should be on deck.

 

I remember when I went out to the castle last year, Marlon Brown popped out at me, as did Brandon Williams. I can't wait to see Bulter and Asa this year.

 

[Ravensfan23]

I plan on it. I'll be paying particular attention to the secondary of course being that it's the biggest wildcard on the team.  Expect my opinion on every positional group though.

 

From my experience I think you'll get an really good appreciation on why even coaches need to watch tape on practices. It's tough to follow every position group during a fast pace practice. You keep an eye on how Ricky Wanger is passing block and miss how Steve Smith actually got open. I'm not sure if this is your first time at camp practice but it definitely will be exciting just following as much as you can.

[Ravensfan23]

oh right, well no lol. Just fpr school rugby team and local soccer team. Nothing serious, but a sport the players took seriously all the same.

 

Says the guy that didn't train hard lol. Naw I completely understand where you are coming from with the general statement of leadership won't be an issue, but I do think leading the way in practice is a much needed thing with such a young squad.

[rmw10]

From my experience I think you'll get an really good appreciation on why even coaches need to watch tape on practices. It's tough to follow every position group during a fast pace practice. You keep an eye on how Ricky Wanger is passing block and miss how Steve Smith actually got open. I'm not sure if this is your first time at camp practice but it definitely will be exciting just following as much as you can.

 

Oh yeah I'm anticipating it to be difficult.  I'll do my best though.

 

I went to camp back in the McDaniel days but I wasn't much into evaluating players at the time being that I was relatively young.  I've been to the open practice these past few years but I've always found it hard to get an actual read there being that everything seems much more relaxed and fan oriented there.  I'm looking forward to finally being able to see the Castle.  I had an opportunity to go last year during October but had to say no unfortunately, so I'm really looking forward to the experience, especially since I'll be able to watch the players before they take the field for the first preseason game.

[Ravensfan23]

Oh yeah I'm anticipating it to be difficult.  I'll do my best though.

 

I went to camp back in the McDaniel days but I wasn't much into evaluating players at the time being that I was relatively young.  I've been to the open practice these past few years but I've always found it hard to get an actual read there being that everything seems much more relaxed and fan oriented there.  I'm looking forward to finally being able to see the Castle.  I had an opportunity to go last year during October but had to say no unfortunately, so I'm really looking forward to the experience, especially since I'll be able to watch the players before they take the field for the first preseason game.

 

Yea, this is why I don't put too much stock into reports and things like that. Even though it's these guys jobs and they've been doing it for a long time, I still rather see for myself.

 

It's definitely a fun time. Hope you truly enjoy

[Moderator 3]

I plan on it. I'll be paying particular attention to the secondary of course being that it's the biggest wildcard on the team.  Expect my opinion on every positional group though.

Keep an eye out for WR #11 (Kamar Aiken). We were really impressed with him yesterday and he was getting reps with the first string. I'd like to know if he can follow it up today.