Bullrush

Top 20 Players (ESPN)

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It's a quite month so maybe this will help to get by. The guys at ESPN (Ravens coverage) thought it would be a good idea to do a poll on who our top 20 players are right now. It's pretty odd to see the first 2 names on that list, guys that have yet to play a game in a Ravens uniform. But I think once they do that they'll be very productive for us.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/130412/intro-to-ravens-top-20-player-countdown

 

No. 20: C.J. Mosley

Position: Inside linebacker

Total points: 34.

 

 

No. 19: Owen Daniels

Position: Tight end

Total points: 43.

 

 

No. 18: Marlon Brown

Position: Wide receiver

Total points: 52.

 

 

No. 17: Matt Elam

Position: Strong safety

Total points: 74.

 

 

No. 16: Kelechi Osemele

Position: Guard

Total points: 109.

 

 

No. 15: Jacoby Jones

Position: Wide receiver-returner

Total points: 124.

 

 

No. 14: Eugene Monroe

Position: Offensive tackle

Total points: 177. First-place votes: One.
 

 

 

No. 13: Ray Rice

Position: Running back

Total points: 178.
 

 

 

No. 12: Steve Smith

Position: Wide receiver

Total points: 188.
 

 

 

No. 11: Daryl Smith

Position: Inside linebacker

Total points: 191. First-place votes: Two.
 

Edited by Bullrush
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The rest will be revealed in the next few days/weeks. Who will be #1?

 

Depends on if they are ranking players in terms of importance to the teams success, or just best players on the team in general. Importance would have to be Flacco .. if he has a bad year, the Ravens will have a bad year. Best player in general could be either Yanda, Webb or Suggs.  

Edited by TDubbs
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Depends on if they are ranking players in terms of importance to the teams success, or just best players on the team in general. Importance would have to be Flacco .. if he has a bad year, the Ravens will have a bad year. Best player in general could be either Yanda, Webb or Suggs.

I found this explanation in their ranking system...

How did we come up with these rankings? I polled 18 media members who cover the team, asking them to give me their top 20 players based on talent and not on how valuable they are to the team. I used a simple system where a first-place vote is worth 20 points, a second-place one is 19 points, a third-place one is 18 points, etc.

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My opinion... Based on talent level in 2014:

1. Marshal yanda

2. Terrell Suggs

3. Lardarius Webb

3. Joe flacco

4. Elvis dummervil

5. Eugene Monroe

6. Daryl smith

7. Torrey smith

8. Jimmy smith

9. Steve smith

10. Dennis pitta

11. Haloti ngata

12. Jacoby jones

13. Jeremy zuttah

14. Courtney upshaw

15. Kelechi ossemelle

16. Matt Elam

17. Ray rice

18. Owen Daniels

19. Pernell McPhee

20. Ricky Wagner

Notes: I couldn't bring myself to rank kickers with these football players. I expect Wagner to have a really good year at right tackle. McPhee I still think has potential to be a key reserve and contribute. I expect art brown/Mosley and Stewart/brooks and Williams/canty to split a lot of time and none will be top 20 ravens for 2014. It was a tough choice between yanda and Suggs for number one.

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I would say that as an average over the coming year, the following will shape out to be our top 20 (negating injury):

 

1-5: Flacco, Suggs, Yanda, Ngata, Jimmy

6-10: Monroe, Webb, K.O., Dumervil, Pitta

11-15: Elam, Rice, Mosley, Steve Smith, Daryl Smith

16-20: Torrey, Zuttah, Art Brown, Canty, Jernigan

 

It gets really sloppy after about 10. 

Edited by hawkprey
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1. Yanda

2. Flacco

3. Suggs

4. Monroe

5. Jimmy

6. Webb

7. Dumervil

8. Ngata

9. Torrey

10. Steve

11. Pitta

12. Tucker (kickers are people too and I believe we have the very best).

13. Daryl

14. Osemele

15. Rice

The rest idk

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I would say that as an average over the coming year, the following will shape out to be our top 20 (negating injury):

1-5: Flacco, Suggs, Yanda, Ngata, Jimmy

6-10: Monroe, Webb, K.O., Dumervil, Pitta

11-15: Elam, Rice, Mosley, Steve Smith, Daryl Smith

16-20: Torrey, Zuttah, Art Brown, Canty, Jernigan

It gets really sloppy after about 10.

I agree after 10 was tough. I think Webb still belongs ahead of jimmy at corner. And I can't see ngata in the top 5 ravens in 14. As hard as that is he is not close to the monster he was. Injury and apathy are slowing him down. A shame. Jacoby definately belongs on the list. Outside of Suggs and flacco he has the most ability to single handedly win a game for us in multiple ways. That is a good player.

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1. Yanda

2. Flacco

3. Suggs

4. Monroe

5. Jimmy

6. Webb

7. Dumervil

8. Ngata

9. Torrey

10. Steve

11. Pitta

12. Tucker (kickers are people too and I believe we have the very best).

13. Daryl

14. Osemele

15. Rice

The rest idk

Seriously though compared to other kickers tucker would be our highest ranked player by position group. Does that make him our "best" player though? This ignoring the kicker is best. At least ours is not an idiot like manning would say.

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I agree after 10 was tough. I think Webb still belongs ahead of jimmy at corner. And I can't see ngata in the top 5 ravens in 14. As hard as that is he is not close to the monster he was. Injury and apathy are slowing him down. A shame. Jacoby definately belongs on the list. Outside of Suggs and flacco he has the most ability to single handedly win a game for us in multiple ways. That is a good player.

I know you like Jacoby a lot, but let's slow down there

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I know you like Jacoby a lot, but let's slow down there

Not saying he's our third best player but his skills provide the third most impact on a game. Considering returns and big pass plays.

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Seriously though compared to other kickers tucker would be our highest ranked player by position group. Does that make him our "best" player though? This ignoring the kicker is best. At least ours is not an idiot like manning would say.

Ay, all I'm saying is if I was in charge of the madden rankings Tucker would be like a 98 lol

I dunno. I personally think kicker is an undervalued position. They could be the difference between wins and losses so I might be a little biased because I know I seem to be in the minority of thinking that. I believe having a "franchise kicker" is very valuable even though a lot of teams like to live and die with veteran floating free agents. Only If you have one with a Stover or Vinatiere caliber though, which I believe we do.

I get what you're saying though, it's tricky for me to say. I don't know where that line would be drawn but I just can't ignore him considering the career he's had thus far.

Like 2-3 years ago when I'd think of Oakland I would think of SeaBass, I don't know if that's just me.

Edited by Gordo52
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Not saying he's our third best player but his skills provide the third most impact on a game. Considering returns and big pass plays.

Doss had a return TD in limited tries and a 100 yard game against Green Bay, and he was let go. Jacoby isn't a huge improvement over that. You could say Koch has a huge impact on the game too, it's just that it's not difficult to find a specialist.

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IMO this is a silly endeavor. Football is a team sport and as we saw with basketball, the best player on the planet can not win a championship by himself, you are only as good as your supporting cast. You could say Flacco and Ngata are the most important, after all, they get paid the most. Or you could say Torrey and Jimmy are the most valuable, after all, they get paid meager wages yet produce much. Who's the most athletic? That doesn't really matter when you're in the trenches with your 300 lbs. Hell, you could look at the Ravens and say we don't have any stars at all on this team....just a roster full of above average football players that make us one heck of team.

 

The top players on this team are the 11 on the field when the whistle sounds. They get my vote.

Go Ravens

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Not saying he's our third best player but his skills provide the third most impact on a game. Considering returns and big pass plays.

He makes splash plays, but not enough to be the third most impacting player on a game

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He makes splash plays, but not enough to be the third most impacting player on a game

I agree, theres no way JJ has a bigger impact than either of the Smiths. He has a big play every now and then in a return or big play but he isnt to be relied upon to do so, he's pretty one dimensional as far as we've seen, a speedster and going deep is just what he does and every now and then we get lucky and he'll be open

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Ay, all I'm saying is if I was in charge of the madden rankings Tucker would be like a 98 lol

I dunno. I personally think kicker is an undervalued position. They could be the difference between wins and losses so I might be a little biased because I know I seem to be in the minority of thinking that. 

 

He's got be a 98 lol. I agree w/ that .. So often the Kicker does make the difference in a win. We don't win that Monday Nighter in Detroit without Tucker, and that had a huge impact on our playoff hopes at the time. Cant undervalue a player who puts points on the board most ever game. 

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He's got be a 98 lol. I agree w/ that .. So often the Kicker does make the difference in a win. We don't win that Monday Nighter in Detroit without Tucker, and that had a huge impact on our playoff hopes at the time. Cant undervalue a player who puts points on the board most ever game.

Also no Super Bowl 35 without Stover. Patriots dynasty could've looked way different.
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Marlon Brown comes in at #18. Not sure what nutcase ranked him in the Top 10.

 

I'd have to say #1 is going to be either Suggs or Yanda. Both guys had some issues with injuries so it could be anyone really. Maybe Flacco or Monroe.

 

No. 18: Marlon Brown

Position: Wide receiver

Total points: 52.

Highest ranking: No. 10. Lowest ranking: Not ranked.

What you need to know: Brown was the best rookie on offense last season, making 49 receptions and catching seven touchdown passes after going undrafted. He won't have to start after the Ravens signed Steve Smith in free agency, but Brown is the favorite to be the team's No. 3 wide receiver.

Where Brown should be ranked: I was one of the seven voters who didn't have Brown in their top 20. Brown has a strong upside, but I don't see him matching the numbers he put up as a rookie. Steve Smith, Torrey Smith, Dennis Pitta and even Owen Daniels should get more passes thrown their way than Brown.

File this away: Brown tied a rookie franchise record with seven touchdowns last season and became the first rookie in team history to score a touchdown in his first two games.

What the Ravens are saying about Brown: “He's a big, strong guy with body control and catch radius. Joe [Flacco] can put the ball around him, and he can make an adjustment and go make the catch, and that's really valuable in the red zone.” -- coach John Harbaugh

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/10824/ravens-2014-player-rankings-no-18

Edited by Bullrush
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Pretty cool idea. My list would be:

 

1. Joe Flacco

2. Eugene Monroe

3. Terrell Suggs

4. Marshall Yanda

5. Lardarius Webb

6. Elvis Dumervil

7. Haloti Ngata

8. Dennis Pitta

9. Jimmy Smith

10. Torrey Smith

11. Daryl Smith

12. Steve Smith

13. Justin Tucker

14. Kelechi Osemele

15. Chris Canty

16. Ray Rice

17. Arthur Brown

18. Matt Elam

19. Owen Daniels

20. Bernard Pierce

 

I'm not putting any rookies in the top 20 until I have seen them actually play. Jeremy Zuttah is probably in there too, but I haven't seen enough of him to give a fair assessment.

 

It's funny that I have all the Smiths bunched together. That wasn't intentional.

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He's got be a 98 lol. I agree w/ that .. So often the Kicker does make the difference in a win. We don't win that Monday Nighter in Detroit without Tucker, and that had a huge impact on our playoff hopes at the time. Cant undervalue a player who puts points on the board most ever game. 

I'd make him a 99 tbh. 

Edited by ravensnick
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Pretty cool idea. My list would be:

1. Joe Flacco

2. Eugene Monroe

3. Terrell Suggs

4. Marshall Yanda

5. Lardarius Webb

6. Elvis Dumervil

7. Haloti Ngata

8. Dennis Pitta

9. Jimmy Smith

10. Torrey Smith

11. Daryl Smith

12. Steve Smith

13. Justin Tucker

14. Kelechi Osemele

15. Chris Canty

16. Ray Rice

17. Arthur Brown

18. Matt Elam

19. Owen Daniels

20. Bernard Pierce

I'm not putting any rookies in the top 20 until I have seen them actually play. Jeremy Zuttah is probably in there too, but I haven't seen enough of him to give a fair assessment.

It's funny that I have all the Smiths bunched together. That wasn't intentional.

Jimmy is miles ahead of Torrey though. He is the only blue chip Smith.
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I'd make him a 99 tbh. 

 

Haha, I won't disagree with that lol. It's impressive to see that Tucker has gotten league wide recognition for being a top Kicker in the league after 2 seasons. That is a rare feat, and I just love that we have a franchise Kicker like that. 

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Jimmy is miles ahead of Torrey though. He is the only blue chip Smith.

I wouldn't say miles. I'd like to see a stretch of play from him longer than 8 games where he is consistently shutting down WRs.

 

The biggest take away I have from this list is that the Ravens overall talent level isn't that great. After the first 12-13 it was kind of ugly.

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I wouldn't say miles. I'd like to see a stretch of play from him longer than 8 games where he is consistently shutting down WRs.

 

The biggest take away I have from this list is that the Ravens overall talent level isn't that great. After the first 12-13 it was kind of ugly.

8 games? I'd like to see Torrey consistently beating WRs two snaps in a row. Jimmy is not complete yet but Torrey is not the guy you go back to throw after throw. He's more of a once-in-a-while threat. Once he catches a big pass, the defense goes on alert and he is gone the rest of the game. 

 

I think if you look at most teams you'll see the same thing. A crop of blue-chip/high red-chip players who are on big contracts, then the crop of average to above average vets (Canty, Jacoby, Daryl Smith) on multi-million dollar deals, and then all rookie/vet minimum deals. To have 5 guys in the blue chip range and another 5 red-chip players is good. Then you just have to expect the unproven rookies to perform.

 

Look at stacked teams and you see they're getting good returns on their rookies - we need to start seeing that and I expect we will.

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8 games? I'd like to see Torrey consistently beating WRs two snaps in a row. Jimmy is not complete yet but Torrey is not the guy you go back to throw after throw. He's more of a once-in-a-while threat. Once he catches a big pass, the defense goes on alert and he is gone the rest of the game. 

 

I think if you look at most teams you'll see the same thing. A crop of blue-chip/high red-chip players who are on big contracts, then the crop of average to above average vets (Canty, Jacoby, Daryl Smith) on multi-million dollar deals, and then all rookie/vet minimum deals. To have 5 guys in the blue chip range and another 5 red-chip players is good. Then you just have to expect the unproven rookies to perform.

 

Look at stacked teams and you see they're getting good returns on their rookies - we need to start seeing that and I expect we will.

I definitely think that Jimmy is a better player than Torrey at this juncture, but he isn't that much better. He hasn't done it consistently. To this point Torrey has had much more success in the NFL, but he also is inconsistent. I give the edge to Jimmy in talent which is why I have him rated higher.

 

Your last point is spot on. The Ravens haven't had a great draft since 2008 and it shows. 

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Matt Elam comes in at #17. I'm sure next season he will be inside the top 10 possibly.

 

Position: Strong safety

Total points: 74.

Highest ranking: No. 9. Lowest ranking: Not ranked.
 

What you need to know: Elam was the only rookie draft pick to start last season, but he didn't consistently make plays because he played out of position at free safety. The 2013 first-round pick has moved to strong safety during the offseason practices and has embraced a leadership role.

Where Elam should be ranked: This is a fair ranking for Elam. I had him at No. 17 because he should make more plays by switching to his natural position. But he doesn't deserve to be any higher until he makes more of an impact.

File this away: In his final three games, Elam recorded 26 tackles and made his only interception of the season.

What the Ravens are saying about Elam: "The person who is just really growing is Matt Elam. From last year to this year, I see a big jump with his leadership, with him controlling the back end and just being that safety, controlling the calls. I just really like where I see him going.” -- cornerback Lardarius Webb

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/10827/ravens-2014-player-rankings-no-17

Edited by Bullrush
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Doss had a return TD in limited tries and a 100 yard game against Green Bay, and he was let go. Jacoby isn't a huge improvement over that. You could say Koch has a huge impact on the game too, it's just that it's not difficult to find a specialist.

What is your point here? One big play on an entire career? That didn't win us a game? Jacoby beat the steelers in our Super Bowl year. Then came up and made a play when we needed him most against Denver and San fransisco. That is a damn valuable player. A piece needed for championship success.

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He makes splash plays, but not enough to be the third most impacting player on a game

Splash plays and crucial times is an important piece to any championship team. Big players making big plays in big games.

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I wouldn't say miles. I'd like to see a stretch of play from him longer than 8 games where he is consistently shutting down WRs.

The biggest take away I have from this list is that the Ravens overall talent level isn't that great. After the first 12-13 it was kind of ugly.

I agree jimmy hasn't far exceeded Torrey's production. Both have put together stretched of big time production and other stretches not so much. The smiths are all close.

I agree it's pretty fair to middling after the top 10-12 players. But how many teams league wide are any different? It's the era.

You see ngata being that good still? I question that.

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What is your point here? One big play on an entire career? That didn't win us a game? Jacoby beat the steelers in our Super Bowl year. Then came up and made a play when we needed him most against Denver and San fransisco. That is a damn valuable player. A piece needed for championship success.

Doss had the highest punt return average of all players last year, and the fact that his TD came on a day where we won by more than 7 points is irrelevant. Jacoby also muffed a kickoff against Denver and dropped a critical 3rd down on the drive previous to the TD that could've lost us the game. 

 

So maybe Jacoby is a damn valuable player if you act like everything on his stat sheet is purely his doing and not the credit to his blockers or the guy throwing him the ball. He's a guy who drew interest from a whopping two teams as a free agent and was offered a small veteran contract. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Maybe you can put him on your own best all time list behind David Tyree but you'd be alone.

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