Ray Rice Suspended 2 Games

[lgcs27288]

Well you guys have fun, Im going to eat my veggies and go to bed. I cant feed the troll anymore. Have a good night!

[5aiah]

You still failed to answer the question. You stated you don't believe he did the extreme so why should he punish himself with another 2-4 game suspension? Or why should the Ravens? 

 

It most certainly IS the book in NFL terms outside an indefinite ban or season suspension. For something you've stated you don't believe he did. Again - for appearances. Not justice or right or wrong. Just appearances. Ridiculous.

I never failed to answer the question, I answered it in like 3 different ways. I believe he should punished himself with an extra 4 games because of the message the entire ordeal sent. The drama and embarrassment, the outrage, the distraction, the misconception that you can get away with hitting a woman if you are famous/talented/rich. I believe if he went about it this way and stuck with a more responsibility assuming(without needing his wife) tone the entire time and immediately going about and making up for the incident none of this would have ever happened. No real backlash against the Ravens or the NFL(well maybe a little) and for once the Ravens would be taking the moral high ground instead of every incident looking like we just stick by whoever can dominate regardless of what they are accused of. I kinda just wanted to see the Ravens really take a stand against DV in a way the NFL refuses to. Maybe in a way most people refuse to period.   

[5aiah]

I find it astounding that somehow, someway we are always wrong about your assessments and opinions. If that is the case, how about you try to be a little less ambiguous with what you are saying.

Also, thanks for trying to put words in my mouth and saying I was turning this into a sexist thing. You are missing the points of everything, nitpicking the discussion and taking things out of context.

You said "It's more about lessening the bias, whether it's a raven fan or a patriot one, a woman who looks at football or doesn't."

I said it doesnt matter who it is, their opinion would still be the same. There is no straw man in that. (Insult removed).

You have no idea what i was talking about, I actually thought you might have a point about me being ambiguous but the fact of the matter is you just can't comprehend. 2 other members understood what i was saying fine and agreed. Even fly understood like the 3rd time around yet you still can't. It's funny how the people who disagree make it seem like im speaking a foreign language. People just don't know how to read anymore.

Well you guys have fun, Im going to eat my veggies and go to bed. I cant feed the troll anymore. Have a good night!

Yes because calling for a higher standard of morality is trolling, oh wait in today's age it just might be.

[flynismo]

Well you guys have fun, Im going to eat my veggies and go to bed. I cant feed the troll anymore. Have a good night!

Good night. Going to be making a trip back down to FL next month for some Adventure Island action....I'll be the guy in the bloodstained Rice jersey and tin foil hat

[5aiah]

Good night. Going to be making a trip back down to FL next month for some Adventure Island action....I'll be the guy in the bloodstained Rice jersey and tin foil hat

So you really gonna keep the jersey, smh. 

 

 

j/k

[ravensdfan]

I never failed to answer the question, I answered it in like 3 different ways. I believe he should punished himself with an extra 4 games because of the message the entire ordeal sent. The drama and embarrassment, the outrage, the distraction, the misconception that you can get away with hitting a woman if you are famous/talented/rich. I believe if he went about it this way and stuck with a more responsibility assuming(without needing his wife) tone the entire time and immediately going about and making up for the incident none of this would have ever happened. No real backlash against the Ravens or the NFL(well maybe a little) and for once the Ravens would be taking the moral high ground instead of every incident looking like we just stick by whoever can dominate regardless of what they are accused of. I kinda just wanted to see the Ravens really take a stand against DV in a way the NFL refuses to. Maybe in a way most people refuse to period.   

 

Do you understand that if he didn't do the extreme it isn't a stand against anything? And in fact, is a stand for injustice?

 

You also didn't answer any of the other questions listed.

[flynismo]

I'm not clueless at all as to how it works, and if only you knew, such irony. I've been out my backyard, to get discriminated against by the BPD because of my skin color, to be locked up for "humbles" such as spitting on the curb, and had stuff planted on me. What do you mean its stupid to ask black about their struggles, all I was saying was that regardless of what I've faced its just not the same as someone who grew up with less in a bad neighborhood. I can relate to a certain degree but I'll never fully know what it was like so I might not feel the same way about problems that affected them. But of course i don't know a thing,lol. The same would go with women because it happens the same way, some women deal with sexist BS a lot more often than others, some rarely do at all and that's why some say we don't have as many celebrity feminists, or being a feminist is a dirty word. Because in whatever bubble they live in it's not as big a deal to them as the everyday woman. Sucks you had to try to attack me that way, guess im just some sheltered little kid.

I should have been asleep an hour ago.....so on that note, I'll just say this in the kindest of ways....you have a good heart, but the world around you does not. Learn to live in it, not in the world you want it to be, and then you will see where we are coming from on this Rice matter. It's cool to have ideals and higher standards. But the world does not care about your ideals and standards, it only cares about it's own.

And that is the lesson that you should have taken from the way the Ravens handled this situation with Rice. They were going to get hammered publicly no matter what, thanks to Janay and Ray's actions. But they knew two things from the get go -- this was a no-win situation, and no matter what, someone was going to be pissed. That's the world we live in. So if you need an ideal to cling on to, there it is. Unbridled, unapologetic support for the people you allow in your world. Be proud of that.

[52520Andrew]

I'm not sure this thread will ever die.

It will eventually. All things must come to an end at some point although this thread may end up locked before people move on from the topic.

 

Of course this thread could rise up and take the board down with it. We must be the watchers on the boards and hope our correction officers can lend us aid in surviving the winter and the storm that is to come. 

[5aiah]

You still failed to answer the question. You stated you don't believe he did the extreme so why should he punish himself with another 2-4 game suspension? Or why should the Ravens? 

 

It most certainly IS the book in NFL terms outside an indefinite ban or season suspension. For something you've stated you don't believe he did. Again - for appearances. Not justice or right or wrong. Just appearances. Ridiculous.

 

You throw around a lot of buzzwords, and fail to actually answer any questions at all.

 

1. what is just one of these great reasons the NFL would have to protect Rice?

2. why did they not exercise (or don't they) this great control you claim they have to shut up all the haters?

3. why do you keep insinuating that Janay was "forced" to apologize? There is zero evidence to even support such a ludicrous claim.

4. if Janay did start the altercation, why shouldn't she apologize for her part in it? Which is all she did.

5. Rice has stated numerous times the fault is his. What do you want? Him to write it in blood?

 

Because most of your questions have little to do with my original point but off on some other tangent while I'm debating 3-4 people at once. But here we go:

1. Well for one the NFLPA and the Ravens stand behind him, there's two right there. The Raven's stood behind Ray Lewis when they knew what he did, it certainly wasn't murder but he wasn't totally innocent. The NFL would have to battle those two to end ray rice's career effectively, certainly a messy battle. 

2. What haters, that's too broad, so many hate the NFL. If you mean the leakers, TMZ, I would say there is no stopping a man who hates the elite of society getting away with things the common man can't. If you believe the reports, that's what fueled the guy who runs TMZ. If you are talking about feminists blasting the NFL I would say that they aren't that powerful to just shut down places like jezebel, but no one is. You can't stop everyone and trying to do so looks worse, what you can do is have everyone under your thumb, toe the company line. Remember I spoke of the NFL as a growing media power because you claimed they weren't the media or going on over and over about the big bad media(when the NFL is technically a part of that). I never said they were William Randolph Hearst.

3. That's not my claim, my claim is that she was likely half to blame but Ray Rice should have shouldered all of the responsibility being that so many believe her to be a assault victim. The focal point should have been about him delivering a powerful apology to her and everyone else, not the "victim" apologizing and ray rice's horrible choice of words. Remember I'm not debating the absolute truth because i do not claim to know it, simply that the crisis control should have done things a lot differently. Some women, especially those who have been victims of domestic violence wonder if she was forced or persuaded into apologizing, again bad management that could have been avoided. Regardless of whether she did or didn't, again Ray Rice should have assumed 100% responsibility even if she makes it clear she had a hand in it. Instead the crisis control went for a 50/50 deal, and maybe this is where we agree and disagree, but i have no doubt this was drawn up and rehearsed with CC. It was very tactical in my opinion.

4. Touched on this above. Ray Rice is the one who does the damage here, regardless of how she ended up on the floor.

5. The 50/50 thing didn't do it for me and it infuriated others, it's not what I want, it's what i think he should have done to prevent another mess. 

[5aiah]

I should have been asleep an hour ago.....so on that note, I'll just say this in the kindest of ways....you have a good heart, but the world around you does not. Learn to live in it, not in the world you want it to be, and then you will see where we are coming from on this Rice matter. It's cool to have ideals and higher standards. But the world does not care about your ideals and standards, it only cares about it's own.

And that is the lesson that you should have taken from the way the Ravens handled this situation with Rice. They were going to get hammered publicly no matter what, thanks to Janay and Ray's actions. But they knew two things from the get go -- this was a no-win situation, and no matter what, someone was going to be pissed. That's the world we live in. So if you need an ideal to cling on to, there it is. Unbridled, unapologetic support for the people you allow in your world. Be proud of that.

 

 

And don't ask rich black men stupid questions!

I'm not that idealistic nor is my heart as good as it sounds, im well aware of the world and where you are coming from. I strive for higher standards and ideals but i fully understand the difference between what i believe in and the cultures I inhabit. At the end of the day originally I was advocating for a more calculating approach that would have given better results. They got hammered publicly mainly do to not clarifying what happened. It then intensified with the press conference, which should have been finessed, instead of jamming the 50/50 down people's throats. The suspension was a golden opportunity to say Ray didn't do what everyone thinks, he's innocent in that regard but guilty of lesser crimes. Rice continues to claim all responsibility and acknowledges the fact that his suspension doesn't match what people believed him to be guilty of and takes an extra 4 while the Ravens, Janay and the NFL all back him up in a subtle manner that he was mostly innocent. Come week 6 a fresh Ray Rice(fresh off of working to combat domestic violence and the grey area surrounding it) hops on to the field for the first time with a lot less heat then he has right now. Instead of some phony forced redemption story there is a real one and those outside of ravens nation possibly start to forgive him.

[tygRrr]

I never failed to answer the question, I answered it in like 3 different ways. I believe he should punished himself with an extra 4 games because of the message the entire ordeal sent. The drama and embarrassment, the outrage, the distraction, the misconception that you can get away with hitting a woman if you are famous/talented/rich. I believe if he went about it this way and stuck with a more responsibility assuming(without needing his wife) tone the entire time and immediately going about and making up for the incident none of this would have ever happened. No real backlash against the Ravens or the NFL(well maybe a little) and for once the Ravens would be taking the moral high ground instead of every incident looking like we just stick by whoever can dominate regardless of what they are accused of. I kinda just wanted to see the Ravens really take a stand against DV in a way the NFL refuses to. Maybe in a way most people refuse to period.   

 

This is not an attack on you, and I see where you're coming purely from a (somewhat flawed) PR perspective, but why should he condemn himself for something he didn't necessarily do? Just to appease the public only goes so far, what's the point of being a martyr of your image when the new image you're portraying is worse than the one you sacrificed? The public would just condemn him even more and make him even more unforgivable, admitting to a crime he may not have committed seems a bit illogical to me. I agree with your desire to see the NFL take a stand against DV, but I don't think Ray's case is the appropriate one to do that.

 

I've been a Ravens fan since 2000, have been lurking on this forum since 2011, and finally decided to post in this thread to throw in my 2 cents and some perspective.

 

There have been valid points from all sides of the discussion here. The way I see it, the NFL itself has its own PR problems, the way they've handled DV charges against players in the past - okay I can see the outrage, but the bottom line is, I don't think Ray Rice should be the posterboy for the NFL for domestic violence, it just isn't the right case for it, and RR doesn't deserve it IN THIS CASE. Unfortunately, his case was attached with video footage (that still shows no evidence of actual violence from either party, at least released to the public) and that is what sticks in everyone's minds more than anything else, this is what people will remember - concrete images that led to assumptions that were not held up in the court of law. Goodell was stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to figure out a "fair" punishment for a first-time offender with an exemplary public image, whose now-wife had been charged with the same crime as he had. 

 

The general public and the media (excluding NFL/Ravens..) are quick to vilify without knowing all of the details of each case and every situation just to grab that sensational headline. The fact is for RR he was a first-time offender with a clean record and a clean image and has done all the right legal and publicly personal actions so far to make amends for his assumed horrible act, what more can you ask/expect from the guy? 

 

Even as a last-ditch effort to save his image, I don't think sacrificing himself for 4 more games would be a good career move and I think the public would see through it immediately. I understand that sometimes accepting full responsibility might ingratiate you to the public, but in cases like these, owning responsibility in a criminal case for a situation he wasn't fully responsible for, doesn't seem like a smart legal or PR decision to me. Talking immediately after the league suspension decision's would've just made people even more skeptical and less receptive to anything Rice would've had to say. The best strategy is to lay low and let this blow over and allow the public to cool down until he's ready to speak, in my opinion.

[Moderator 2]

I am what y'all call a 'brainwashed' female. I think for Ray Rice to take himself out of 4-6 games is ludicrous. I know many PSL holders would be irate for the dog and pony show the other way. I have read where the lawyer suggested the Ray is protecting Janay, which is why I think she is with him at the botched presser and the visit to see Roger. It's not like he beat up other women, This is RR only infraction FOR ANYTHING since he joined the NFL. Ben had multiple ' bad boy' incidents.

Punishment -- RR has lost endorsements which could have doubled his money, his 'Brand' -- he may not be able to retire at 30 as he has been known to say. His baby daughter win we taunted with this when she hits the dreadful Tweens. Loss of locker cred and many other things I honestly can think at this time in the morning.

I have all sons--3 of mine, a stepson and a grandson-- they have always been told they may defend them selves and they will face the wrath of mom if I hear otherwise.

Welcome to the forums tygRrr.

[ravensdfan]

Because most of your questions have little to do with my original point but off on some other tangent while I'm debating 3-4 people at once. But here we go:

1. Well for one the NFLPA and the Ravens stand behind him, there's two right there. The Raven's stood behind Ray Lewis when they knew what he did, it certainly wasn't murder but he wasn't totally innocent. The NFL would have to battle those two to end ray rice's career effectively, certainly a messy battle. 

2. What haters, that's too broad, so many hate the NFL. If you mean the leakers, TMZ, I would say there is no stopping a man who hates the elite of society getting away with things the common man can't. If you believe the reports, that's what fueled the guy who runs TMZ. If you are talking about feminists blasting the NFL I would say that they aren't that powerful to just shut down places like jezebel, but no one is. You can't stop everyone and trying to do so looks worse, what you can do is have everyone under your thumb, toe the company line. Remember I spoke of the NFL as a growing media power because you claimed they weren't the media or going on over and over about the big bad media(when the NFL is technically a part of that). I never said they were William Randolph Hearst.

3. That's not my claim, my claim is that she was likely half to blame but Ray Rice should have shouldered all of the responsibility being that so many believe her to be a assault victim. The focal point should have been about him delivering a powerful apology to her and everyone else, not the "victim" apologizing and ray rice's horrible choice of words. Remember I'm not debating the absolute truth because i do not claim to know it, simply that the crisis control should have done things a lot differently. Some women, especially those who have been victims of domestic violence wonder if she was forced or persuaded into apologizing, again bad management that could have been avoided. Regardless of whether she did or didn't, again Ray Rice should have assumed 100% responsibility even if she makes it clear she had a hand in it. Instead the crisis control went for a 50/50 deal, and maybe this is where we agree and disagree, but i have no doubt this was drawn up and rehearsed with CC. It was very tactical in my opinion.

4. Touched on this above. Ray Rice is the one who does the damage here, regardless of how she ended up on the floor.

5. The 50/50 thing didn't do it for me and it infuriated others, it's not what I want, it's what i think he should have done to prevent another mess. 

 

 

I'm not that idealistic nor is my heart as good as it sounds, im well aware of the world and where you are coming from. I strive for higher standards and ideals but i fully understand the difference between what i believe in and the cultures I inhabit. At the end of the day originally I was advocating for a more calculating approach that would have given better results. They got hammered publicly mainly do to not clarifying what happened. It then intensified with the press conference, which should have been finessed, instead of jamming the 50/50 down people's throats. The suspension was a golden opportunity to say Ray didn't do what everyone thinks, he's innocent in that regard but guilty of lesser crimes. Rice continues to claim all responsibility and acknowledges the fact that his suspension doesn't match what people believed him to be guilty of and takes an extra 4 while the Ravens, Janay and the NFL all back him up in a subtle manner that he was mostly innocent. Come week 6 a fresh Ray Rice(fresh off of working to combat domestic violence and the grey area surrounding it) hops on to the field for the first time with a lot less heat then he has right now. Instead of some phony forced redemption story there is a real one and those outside of ravens nation possibly start to forgive him.

 

lol so on the one hand you're saying the press conference was rehearsed while on the other saying it wasn't finessed - so wasn't rehearsed. 

 

You talk out of both sides of your mouth - no I don't think Rice did the extreme but by golly gee he should have taken the punishment like he did.

 

It was a 50/50 deal - but let's lie to the world because apparently they can't handle the truth and the truth ticked them off. 

 

Outside of Ravens' world they will never forgive him - did you not learn that with Ray Lewis? That was 15 odd years of good works and it didn't matter one iota. But let's punish Rice anyway because public perception is everything. Not right and wrong.

 

I disagree with fly. You don't have high ideals. You expect Rice to be punished for something even you claim you don't believe he actually did. What kind of ideal is that? That isn't a world I want to live in.

 

lmao the NFLPA really??? And the Ravens??? Really??? Give me a break. That's never stopped them before. Ever. 

 

I am referring to ESPN and NFLN that you said they have "great" control over. Guess not so much huh?

 

The common man in this case would, all things being equal, would have gotten less. The law probably would have treated it the same, but he would have gone on with his life without being attacked and being vilified in the public square.

 

Why should anyone have to kowtow to public perception? Just because she is perceived to be a victim and not a partner in the assault does not make that a fact. If all your neighbors think you're a thief, broke into their houses and stole valuable possessions do you have to kowtow to public perception and do 10 years for breaking and entering and grand larceny? Do you comprehend how ridiculous that is?

 

Who are you to say it is a phony forced redemption story? I mean it is pretty much public record that they did and still are in counseling. Public apology by Rice and Janay for her part in it. Rice didn't appeal anything, said the suspension and loss of pay, etc were brought about by his own actions. All parties personally involved have stood behind them both. What is phony and forced about it?

 

I don't understand how Janay uttering one sentence that she was sorry for her part in it is jamming anything down people's throats. Not to mention, if someone can't handle the truth, then that is pretty much their issue. Like I said - media making it out to be what it isn't.

[ravensdfan]

A lot of varying opinions of the Rice incident have been voiced in this thread and this isn't going to be the first or last opinion on the issue, we all know that.  As I am understanding, Rice is slated to take questions in this Thursday's presser after practice.  Whether he will be advised to take any questions on this issue I am not sure about at this time. But let's take a break from this for a day or two and reopen the discussion in another thread after he has had a chance to speak.

 

Thanks.

 

Sorry. didn't see your post until after I answered the other one. 

[Grapple Raven]

Sorry. didn't see your post until after I answered the other one. 

No problem ravensdfan!

[Grapple Raven]

A lot of varying opinions of the Rice incident have been voiced in this thread and this isn't going to be the first or last opinion on the issue, we all know that.  As I am understanding, Rice is slated to take questions in this Thursday's presser after practice.  Whether he will be advised to take any questions on this issue I am not sure about at this time. But let's take a break from this for a day or two and reopen the discussion in another thread after he has had a chance to speak.

 

Thanks.