Ray Rice Suspended 2 Games

[ravensdfan]

I do not know how to stress this enough, the NFL is part of the media. They have their own channel, analysts, writers, and website. They enjoy a great amount of control over ESPN and what's said there as well. Under your definition or use of "media", the NFL is the media. Sure it's very possible(maybe even likely) that they are privy and made the right decision, but the MEDIA(NFL) has succeeded in disarming you from seriously considering the alternative, or at least it seems so when you start that sentence off like that. I'm not wearing a tin foil hat, just staying objective and showing you how it goes both ways. 

 

 

I do not know how to stress this enough: 

 

The NFL is a BRAND. They are all about making money. Why would they go easy on Rice? "oh it's the Ravens, we'll just give him 2. It's all good." Is that how you think it went?

 

Or maybe "oh who cares about women. We don't need them. I'm glad he hit her. 2 games is good."

 

You and your "war on women" conspiracy that does not exist and is a ridiculous notion for a league that has already demonstrated it is all about making coin.

 

After everyone that had a right to view ALL the evidence - the law gave him PBJ, meaning any charges will dismissed after one year, the NFL gave him a 2 game suspension, loss of 1/2 million in pay and a $50,000 fine and the Ravens have stood behind him.

 

Yet, you know more than all of them right? You're right and they're wrong even though you don't have any access to all the evidence? Get a grip.

 

Not to mention, after all they've done to draw women into the NFL - the women's shirts, the pink, the breast cancer campaign - they're going to just throw it all away because they have some what? secret vendetta?

[MTRavensFan]

 

On the forum, really, that's who you want to ask. Female football fans of the Ravens are of course more likely to forgive and rationalize(Ravens PR showcased that) but many women I know who aren't fans of the Ravens or of football have spoken out against this specifically because of how similar it feels to other problems facing women these days. If you genuinely want to see a different perspective try reading what everyday women are saying about it or if they aren't blind ravens fans, talk to them in person.

Really?

 

So my opinion isn't good enough for you?

Because I happen to be a Ravens fan, I'm no longer an "everyday woman"? Or my brain has been mysteriously compromised, and I've suddenly lost the ability to form an educated opinion ?

 

Because you're going to tell me how I'm "more likely to think"???

[ravensdfan]

Really?

 

So my opinion isn't good enough for you?

Because I happen to be a Ravens fan, I'm no longer an "everyday woman"? Or my brain has been mysteriously compromised, and I've suddenly lost the ability to form an educated opinion ?

 

Because you're going to tell me how I'm "more likely to think"???

 

No our opinion doesn't count. We're just women - we don't know how to think beyond our affinity for Ravens football. 

[5aiah]

I'm not sure what questions need to be asked regarding that. If you are suggesting that their attitudes towards those issues will make them naturally more disposed one way or the other regarding my open-ended question, perhaps that is true, maybe not, but it seems to me to be very irrelevant. Unless I am missing something. According to you, I am very skilled at missing your points, so....yeah. lol

Uh it just kinda gives insight as to how aware they are of problems facing women, problems that they aren't familiar with possibly that add context to this situation. I would ask the same type of questions to a wealthy african american who might not understand all the different struggles of a working class one. These things affect empathy and understanding.

[flynismo]

here it comes ...  

[5aiah]

Really?

 

So my opinion isn't good enough for you?

Because I happen to be a Ravens fan, I'm no longer an "everyday woman"? Or my brain has been mysteriously compromised, and I've suddenly lost the ability to form an educated opinion ?

 

Because you're going to tell me how I'm "more likely to think"???

That's not what I said at all but thanks for trying to turn that on me. It's just that anyone should be able to admit Ravens fans are more likely to be biased, that's really all I'm saying. Talking to a wider range of women including Ravens fans is going to get one better results than just talking to Ravens fans.

 

No our opinion doesn't count. We're just women - we don't know how to think. 

Again this is just bad smokescreen solely to take away from my point. 

[flynismo]

Uh it just kinda gives insight as to how aware they are of problems facing women, problems that they aren't familiar with possibly that add context to this situation. I would ask the same type of questions to a wealthy african american who might not understand all the different struggles of a working class one. These things affect empathy and understanding.

It's an amazing coincidence that you bring that up.

I was born in Cape Town, South Africa, to a very wealthy mixed race family. And I can pretty much guarantee you that you would get shot in the back of the head for asking a successful black man there silly questions like that.

[ravensdfan]

That's not what I said at all but thanks for trying to turn that on me. It's just that anyone should be able to admit Ravens fans are more likely to be biased, that's really all I'm saying. Talking to a wider range of women including Ravens fans is going to get one better results than just talking to Ravens fans.

 

Again this is just bad smokescreen solely to take away from my point. 

 

And you don't think there is bias among women who aren't Ravens' fans? I mean - are you going to include Steeler fans? Patriot fans? Denver fans? They despise us you know right?

 

To think someone cannot have empathy for a situation they are not in is ridiculous. Those of us who aren't calling for Rice's head understand that we were not there, do not know all the facts and accept that those who have seen all the evidence made a sound judgement.

 

Unlike you who seem to believe you are in some better position to know what is right and proper without all the facts.

[flynismo]

That's not what I said at all but thanks for trying to turn that on me. It's just that anyone should be able to admit Ravens fans are more likely to be biased, that's really all I'm saying. Talking to a wider range of women including Ravens fans is going to get one better results than just talking to Ravens fans.

 

Again this is just bad smokescreen solely to take away from my point. 

 

No man, I even told you that it was a very bad idea to make that remark. Be like Ray and take it on the chin, don't justify it.

[lgcs27288]

here it comes ...  

You never cease to make me laugh dude. lol

[flynismo]

You never cease to make me laugh dude. lol

Glad to hear I am doing something right! Just stick around a minute, I get the feeling more laughs are headed our way

[lgcs27288]

Glad to hear I am doing something right! Just stick around a minute, I get the feeling more laughs are headed our way

I did a quick check on that guys profile and saw he was friends with RBates and I said nope, Im not getting into this anymore.

[5aiah]

I do not know how to stress this enough: 

 

The NFL is a BRAND. They are all about making money. Why would they go easy on Rice? "oh it's the Ravens, we'll just give him 2. It's all good." Is that how you think it went?

 

Or maybe "oh who cares about women. We don't need them. I'm glad he hit her. 2 games is good."

 

You and your "war on women" conspiracy that does not exist and is a ridiculous notion for a league that has already demonstrated it is all about making coin.

 

After everyone that had a right to view ALL the evidence - the law gave him PBJ, meaning any charges will dismissed after one year, the NFL gave him a 2 game suspension, loss of 1/2 million in pay and a $50,000 fine and the Ravens have stood behind him.

 

Yet, you know more than all of them right? You're right and they're wrong even though you don't have any access to all the evidence? Get a grip.

 

Not to mention, after all they've done to draw women into the NFL - the women's shirts, the pink, the breast cancer campaign - they're going to just throw it all away because they have some what? secret vendetta?

It's a brand and part of the media whether you like it or not.

Once they were sure of the rest of the tape not being leaked I'm sure its just not that hard protect Rice after that. It could have been done for any number of reasons, not that I even believe he did the extreme. 

Im not even sure you know what i claim to know. What is my claim? I make a point of saying I don't have evidence. This was never my point. The "war on women" doesn't have anything to do with my point on the NFL in particular, just that the acknowledgement of it, by a man or woman, lends them more credibility. The whole reason this debate has dragged out so long is because people have refused to see opposing sides stemming from exactly this. The secret vendetta stuff is absurd and not part of my point.

[flynismo]

I did a quick check on that guys profile and saw he was friends with RBates and I said nope, Im not getting into this anymore.

Cmon now, Master RBates isn't here to defend himself lol

[MTRavensFan]

That's not what I said at all but thanks for trying to turn that on me. It's just that anyone should be able to admit Ravens fans are more likely to be biased, that's really all I'm saying. Talking to a wider range of women including Ravens fans is going to get one better results than just talking to Ravens fans.

 

Again this is just bad smokescreen solely to take away from my point. 

 

It may not be what you meant, but it is EXACTLY what you said. That as a female Ravens fan, I am more likely to be biased, or to think a certain way, therefore my opinion is less valid than that of "a wider range of (everyday) women".

 

You have also stated numerous times that the Ravens should have not allowed Janay to offer an apology at the press conference, an apology she made of her own free will. In essence, you are advocating that the team should have silenced her voice.

 

For someone who's throwing around feminist rhetoric like "rape culture" and "war on women", that's sounding awfully sexist to me.

[flynismo]

It's a brand and part of the media whether you like it or not.

Once they were sure of the rest of the tape not being leaked I'm sure its just not that hard protect Rice after that. It could have been done for any number of reasons, not that I even believe he did the extreme. 

Im not even sure you know what i claim to know. What is my claim? I make a point of saying I don't have evidence. This was never my point. The "war on women" doesn't have anything to do with my point on the NFL in particular, just that the acknowledgement of it, by a man or woman, lends them more credibility. The whole reason this debate has dragged out so long is because people have refused to see opposing sides stemming from exactly this. The secret vendetta stuff is absurd and not part of my point.

 

Well, the thing is, you mentioned strawmen earlier. What do you call the bolded text? Old timers would know it by the name red herring....today we call it s_______n

[5aiah]

I did a quick check on that guys profile and saw he was friends with RBates and I said nope, Im not getting into this anymore.

Have no idea who you are talking about. I don't know how to use friends function on here.

 

Glad to hear I am doing something right! Just stick around a minute, I get the feeling more laughs are headed our way

Most of this stuff is missing the point, its not really about what I was saying. Somehow getting informed people to question is irrational.

 

No man, I even told you that it was a very bad idea to make that remark. Be like Ray and take it on the chin, don't justify it.

Lmao. The remark had to be made, I stay rational throughout. 

 

And you don't think there is bias among women who aren't Ravens' fans? I mean - are you going to include Steeler fans? Patriot fans? Denver fans? They despise us you know right?

 

To think someone cannot have empathy for a situation they are not in is ridiculous. Those of us who aren't calling for Rice's head understand that we were not there, do not know all the facts and accept that those who have seen all the evidence made a sound judgement.

 

Unlike you who seem to believe you are in some better position to know what is right and proper without all the facts.

 

It's not like I was saying just pick from our rivals lol. Also I guess you missed my point about already discussing this with different groups so as to avoid bias. I said nothing about people not being able to have empathy just because they aren't in the situation, but that some aren't because they aren't near or fully aware of said situations.

It's an amazing coincidence that you bring that up.

I was born in Cape Town, South Africa, to a very wealthy mixed race family. And I can pretty much guarantee you that you would get shot in the back of the head for asking a successful black man there silly questions like that.

Totally off point and I could care less, what in the world does that have to do with my point? I was obviously speaking on african americans and the different obstacles faced when one comes from money and the other doesn't.

[ravensdfan]

It's a brand and part of the media whether you like it or not.

Once they were sure of the rest of the tape not being leaked I'm sure its just not that hard protect Rice after that. It could have been done for any number of reasons, not that I even believe he did the extreme. 

Im not even sure you know what i claim to know. What is my claim? I make a point of saying I don't have evidence. This was never my point. The "war on women" doesn't have anything to do with my point on the NFL in particular, just that the acknowledgement of it, by a man or woman, lends them more credibility. The whole reason this debate has dragged out so long is because people have refused to see opposing sides stemming from exactly this. The secret vendetta stuff is absurd and not part of my point.

 

What reasons? What? Why? Name one valid reason out of "all sorts of reasons" that they'd endanger their brand among women for.

 

They aren't the media. They have a website and a channel. Ever watch it? They many times are not very flattering to the NFL and Roger Goodell. If they truly had all this control you claim - there certainly wouldn't be all this stuff about how they just said women don't matter would there? I mean, they'd nip that right in the bud.

 

How do you know who didn't want the video leaked? If it contains what all reports from those who did see it say - then it is Janay starting it and being sloppy drunk. Perhaps, Rice feels that regardless he was out of line and there is no reason to embarrass his wife. 

 

I see the opposing side and it is illogical and irrational. There is no rhyme or reason for Goodell to protect Rice or be lenient. Therefore, there must be something in that evidence we don't know about.

 

Or something lacking in that evidence, such as the extreme. If you don't believe he did the extreme why do you even think he should have gotten more than 2 games? For appearances sake? Forget about justice - let's just throw the book at him.

[flynismo]

Totally off point and I could care less, what in the world does that have to do with my point? I was obviously speaking on african americans and the different obstacles faced when one comes from money and the other doesn't.

 

This response is precisely my point. You keep throwing around these buzzwords like war on women, equality, etc....and yet.....you are absolutely clueless as to how it works in the real world. It's like you learned these terms in school, but have never been out of your own backyard to experience what you heard the teacher say.

 

Do you even realize how stupid it is to ask any black person, poor or wealthy, what they know about obstacles and struggling? What am I saying....of course you don't.

 

But carry on....just like the entire world handled the Rice situation wrong, now everyone is misunderstanding your conspiracy theories and all the women who support our team are brainwashed into whatever Ozzie and Goodell feeds them.

[lgcs27288]

Guys c'mon. It's painfully clear, whether we are male or female,  we have no idea what is going on here. (I think any female would have the best opinion on this matter, Ravens fan or not.) All of our opinions are wrong and ignorant. We cant form our own opinion because we are not qualified.

 

But 5aiah, if 5aiah tells me to finish my vegetables, you bet your bottom dollar Im finishing them.

[ravensdfan]

Guys c'mon. It's painfully clear, whether we are male or female,  we have no idea what is going on here. (I think any female would have the best opinion on this matter, Ravens fan or not.) All of our opinions are wrong and ignorant. We cant form our own opinion because we are not qualified.

 

But 5aiah, if 5aiah tells me to finish my vegetables, you bet your bottom dollar Im finishing them.

 

Somehow we missed the big conspiracy. We took our tin foil hats off too soon.

[5aiah]

It may not be what you meant, but it is EXACTLY what you said. That as a female Ravens fan, I am more likely to be biased, or to think a certain way, therefore my opinion is less valid than that of "a wider range of (everyday) women".

 

You have also stated numerous times that the Ravens should have not allowed Janay to offer an apology at the press conference, an apology she made of her own free will. In essence, you are advocating that the team should have silenced her voice.

 

For someone who's throwing around feminist rhetoric like "rape culture" and "war on women", that's sounding awfully sexist to me.

1.Oh absolutely, just saying you're kinda making it seem like I was saying that only in terms of women. I've said the same thing all day about men, the ones I've been in discussion with. Yes as a Ravens fan all of us are more likely to be biased and i would always go outside of that to find non bias.

2.Not really true, I was merely saying that Ray Rice should have been front and center apologizing and that due to her apologizing it kinda seemed like she was shielding him. It's just not likely that they did all that themselves, but that there was coaching from the ravens. It fits with their hardcore stance that Ray Rice was in no way fully responsible alone. My main point was that there was criticism from women who thought it was abhorrent for her to be made to apologize, based on what they think they know, and what little they actually saw. Perception was always front and center for me in this.

[lgcs27288]

1.Oh absolutely, just saying you're kinda making it seem like I was saying that only in terms of women. I've said the same thing all day about men, the ones I've been in discussion with. Yes as a Ravens fan all of us are more likely to be biased and i would always go outside of that to find non bias.

2.Not really true, I was merely saying that Ray Rice should have been front and center apologizing and that due to her apologizing it kinda seemed like she was shielding him. It's just not likely that they did all that themselves, but that there was coaching from the ravens. It fits with their hardcore stance that Ray Rice was in no way fully responsible alone. My main point was that there was criticism from women who thought it was abhorrent for her to be made to apologize, based on what they think they know, and what little they actually saw. Perception was always front and center for me in this.

First of all, any woman, Ravens fan or not should and would be appalled by Ray Rice if they knew 100% that he struck his wife. Anybody would be.

 

I think you are just stuck in this world where you think Rice did 100% strike his wife and is solely responsible for this. If he did, then I am with you.

 

However, the evidence and rulings do not agree with this. His wife apologized because she felt just as guilty for this situation, not because she was trying to protect him, but maybe, just maybe she legitimately felt partly responsible. I think this goes back to the whole "black and white" conversation you guys had earlier. There is definitely gray in this and you are stuck in the black or white.

[5aiah]

This response is precisely my point. You keep throwing around these buzzwords like war on women, equality, etc....and yet.....you are absolutely clueless as to how it works in the real world. It's like you learned these terms in school, but have never been out of your own backyard to experience what you heard the teacher say.

 

Do you even realize how stupid it is to ask any black person, poor or wealthy, what they know about obstacles and struggling? What am I saying....of course you don't.

 

But carry on....just like the entire world handled the Rice situation wrong, now everyone is misunderstanding your conspiracy theories and all the women who support our team are brainwashed into whatever Ozzie and Goodell feeds them.

I'm not clueless at all as to how it works, and if only you knew, such irony. I've been out my backyard, to get discriminated against by the BPD because of my skin color, to be locked up for "humbles" such as spitting on the curb, and had stuff planted on me. What do you mean its stupid to ask black about their struggles, all I was saying was that regardless of what I've faced its just not the same as someone who grew up with less in a bad neighborhood. I can relate to a certain degree but I'll never fully know what it was like so I might not feel the same way about problems that affected them. But of course i don't know a thing,lol. The same would go with women because it happens the same way, some women deal with sexist BS a lot more often than others, some rarely do at all and that's why some say we don't have as many celebrity feminists, or being a feminist is a dirty word. Because in whatever bubble they live in it's not as big a deal to them as the everyday woman. Sucks you had to try to attack me that way, guess im just some sheltered little white kid. 

 

What reasons? What? Why? Name one valid reason out of "all sorts of reasons" that they'd endanger their brand among women for.

 

They aren't the media. They have a website and a channel. Ever watch it? They many times are not very flattering to the NFL and Roger Goodell. If they truly had all this control you claim - there certainly wouldn't be all this stuff about how they just said women don't matter would there? I mean, they'd nip that right in the bud.

 

How do you know who didn't want the video leaked? If it contains what all reports from those who did see it say - then it is Janay starting it and being sloppy drunk. Perhaps, Rice feels that regardless he was out of line and there is no reason to embarrass his wife. 

 

I see the opposing side and it is illogical and irrational. There is no rhyme or reason for Goodell to protect Rice or be lenient. Therefore, there must be something in that evidence we don't know about.

 

Or something lacking in that evidence, such as the extreme. If you don't believe he did the extreme why do you even think he should have gotten more than 2 games? For appearances sake? Forget about justice - let's just throw the book at him.

 

I've gone over that ad nauseum. Also 4-6 games is hardly the book, and again what point of him doing it himself don't people understand, I said the league should have given him 2.

Guys c'mon. It's painfully clear, whether we are male or female,  we have no idea what is going on here. (I think any female would have the best opinion on this matter, Ravens fan or not.) All of our opinions are wrong and ignorant. We cant form our own opinion because we are not qualified.

 

But 5aiah, if 5aiah tells me to finish my vegetables, you bet your bottom dollar Im finishing them.

It's more about lessening the bias, whether it's a raven fan or a patriot one, a woman who looks at football or doesn't. You're trying to make this into a sexist thing when it's not. 

[lgcs27288]

I'm not clueless at all as to how it works, and if only you knew, such irony. I've been out my backyard, to get discriminated against by the BPD because of my skin color, to be locked up for "humbles" such as spitting on the curb, and had stuff planted on me. What do you mean its stupid to ask black about their struggles, all I was saying was that regardless of what I've faced its just not the same as someone who grew up with less in a bad neighborhood. I can relate to a certain degree but I'll never fully know what it was like so I might not feel the same way about problems that affected them. But of course i don't know a thing,lol. The same would go with women because it happens the same way, some women deal with sexist BS a lot more often than others, some rarely do at all and that's why some say we don't have as many celebrity feminists, or being a feminist is a dirty word. Because in whatever bubble they live in it's not as big a deal to them as the everyday woman. Sucks you had to try to attack me that way, guess im just some sheltered little white kid. 

 

 

I've gone over that ad nauseum. Also 4-6 games is hardly the book, and again what point of him doing it himself don't people understand, I said the league should have given him 2.

It's more about lessening the bias, whether it's a raven fan or a patriot one, a woman who looks at football or doesn't. You're trying to make this into a sexist thing when it's not. 

No I am not trying to make this into a sexist conversation at all. This is where you fault and where you keep faulting. You fail to realize any of our arguments because you are caught up in your own instead of an open mind.

 

I am simply saying, FOR ANY WOMAN, there would be no bias! Why the heck would any woman want to cheer for a woman beater whether they play for their favorite team or not? That's just silly dude. GET REAL.

[5aiah]

First of all, any woman, Ravens fan or not should and would be appalled by Ray Rice if they knew 100% that he struck his wife. Anybody would be.

 

I think you are just stuck in this world where you think Rice did 100% strike his wife and is solely responsible for this. If he did, then I am with you.

 

However, the evidence and rulings do not agree with this. His wife apologized because she felt just as guilty for this situation, not because she was trying to protect him, but maybe, just maybe she legitimately felt partly responsible. I think this goes back to the whole "black and white" conversation you guys had earlier. There is definitely gray in this and you are stuck in the black or white.

Sighhhhhhhhhhhh. No matter what i say the fact that I think he should take full responsibility somehow gets misconstrued as i think he struck his wife. I don't even think the man struck his wife. Earlier you quoted an older post of mine, how come you couldn't see the numerous times I said I don't think he hit her but I have no real clue? Now I feel like you have no idea what I've been talking about after this and are mainly reacting to my thoughts on unbiased questioning of women. I really meant no offense, but I stick by what I said, its only rational. 

[5aiah]

No I am not trying to make this into a sexist conversation at all. This is where you fault and where you keep faulting. You fail to realize any of our arguments because you are caught up in your own instead of an open mind.

 

I am simply saying, FOR ANY WOMAN, there would be no bias! Why the heck would any woman want to cheer for a woman beater whether they play for their favorite team or not? That's just silly dude. GET REAL.

How many times must I correct this lol. No one is saying this, why the straw man?

[ravensdfan]

I've gone over that ad nauseum. Also 4-6 games is hardly the book, and again what point of him doing it himself don't people understand, I said the league should have given him 2.

It's more about lessening the bias, whether it's a raven fan or a patriot one, a woman who looks at football or doesn't. You're trying to make this into a sexist thing when it's not. 

 

You still failed to answer the question. You stated you don't believe he did the extreme so why should he punish himself with another 2-4 game suspension? Or why should the Ravens? 

 

It most certainly IS the book in NFL terms outside an indefinite ban or season suspension. For something you've stated you don't believe he did. Again - for appearances. Not justice or right or wrong. Just appearances. Ridiculous.

 

You throw around a lot of buzzwords, and fail to actually answer any questions at all.

 

1. what is just one of these great reasons the NFL would have to protect Rice?

2. why did they not exercise (or don't they) this great control you claim they have to shut up all the haters?

3. why do you keep insinuating that Janay was "forced" to apologize? There is zero evidence to even support such a ludicrous claim.

4. if Janay did start the altercation, why shouldn't she apologize for her part in it? Which is all she did.

5. Rice has stated numerous times the fault is his. What do you want? Him to write it in blood?

[lgcs27288]

I find it astounding that somehow, someway we are always wrong about your assessments and opinions. If that is the case, how about you try to be a little less ambiguous with what you are saying.

Also, thanks for trying to put words in my mouth and saying I was turning this into a sexist thing. You are missing the points of everything, nitpicking the discussion and taking things out of context.

You said "It's more about lessening the bias, whether it's a raven fan or a patriot one, a woman who looks at football or doesn't."

I said it doesnt matter who it is, their opinion would still be the same. There is no straw man in that.

You still failed to answer the question. You stated you don't believe he did the extreme so why should he punish himself with another 2-4 game suspension? Or why should the Ravens?

It most certainly IS the book in NFL terms outside an indefinite ban or season suspension. For something you've stated you don't believe he did. Again - for appearances. Not justice or right or wrong. Just appearances. Ridiculous.

Thank you, this further justifies the ambiguity 5aiah is keeping while nitpicking and taking things out of context.

The real straw man.

Just silly. I honestly believe he does not understand what he is saying anymore.

[flynismo]

You still failed to answer the question. You stated you don't believe he did the extreme so why should he punish himself with another 2-4 game suspension? Or why should the Ravens?

Actually, he did answer that. The answer is because we should be sending a strong message against DV so as not to offend the women who cannot decide for themselves how to interprete what is going on, as well to get the mouthbreathing sensationalists (media) off our backs.

 

hey....I didn't say it was a good answer, just that he answered it.