Ray Rice Suspended 2 Games

[D-Rey]

A lot of what I was discussing wasn't my opinion, I separated the two as often as possible. I was in fact speaking on the side that most in the thread refuse to see, while remaining objective between the two. Before you quote someone you should actually know what they are saying.

You haven't been objective. You're on one side stating your opinion. Some things you said have been objective. But most of what you said have been your opinion.

"3. The Ravens and Ray Rice agree for him to miss more games(maybe 4 more for a total of 6) while maintaining that while it's not as bad as everyone thought, it just wasn't acceptable behavior(especially for a Raven) regardless and deserves more than just 2 games. Maybe Ray Rice spends the extra time off doing things to raise awareness of domestic violence and the "grey area" that exists around it. Ray Rice bringing his personal story to the debate would be good for society and he would be forgiven by much more than just Ravens fans hoping he can run for 2k yards"

This is opinion, not objective. Not to mention, its not Rice's job to punish himself. It was the NFL's job. They punished him as they thought was fair. It was a harsher punishment than any other first time offender. Honestly I thought it should of been 4 games. But it's not like those two or four extra games would of changed anything for anyone. Its not going to make a Rice any more or less violent in the future. Rice knows what he did was wrong. He doesn't need to suspend himself longer to realize it. That makes zero sense.

[flynismo]

1. If you think they were sensitive then you aren't following the bigger discussion or ignorant of it. This is what i mean about you not being able to comprehend.

2. I thought we didn't know who hit who? You saw the video? You've been talking up the "she hit first" angle while I've reiterated my belief that don't believe he even hit her, but that I recognize I know nothing of what transpired. That's what I mean about a straw man btw.

3. It certainly riled people up to see the alleged victim apologizing during what was surely a planned out conference, that was pretty stupid. Fact

4. it's not about selling him out, its about a organization used to these big controversies, screwing up one of the easier ones they were faced with for an epic misfire that just won't die. It's still going on in national discussion how big a screw up this is in terms of crisis control. The conversation is no longer about what transpired, but about how bad(and hilarious) the Ravens PR is. It's a fact that no organization want's to continue dealing with this, and my point was that they didn't have to. 

5.There are facts and opinions in my arguments, the difference between us is that I actually know the difference.

Obviously you do not know the difference between your opinion and reality.

 

Rice and Janay were both the victims. That is a fact, since they were both charged with the same crime. So that is partly what I talk about when I say "public ignorance" rather than public opinion. People expected Rice to take the bullet for everyone when the woman sitting directly next to him was at least as much, if not more, to blame for this whole mess.

 

What crysis are you still going on about? Are the Ravens getting banned from the NFL? Are fans boycotting our games? No? Or is the "crysis" simply appeasing a bunch of mouthbreathing sensationalists who are looking for any angle possible to tear Rice down? Screw that. I think you are the one creating strawmen arguments here, talking about nonsense like "our image is taking a hit" as if we were some well loved team or something. People hated us before this, and they hate us now. So I am glad they did not sell Ray Rice out just for the sake of gratifying a bunch of people who don't give a crap about us in the first place.

[flynismo]

The difference here in regards to the media is the message(one of many) sent to women in our society that they don't matter and abuse will be treated lightly, especially if its an athlete. 

 

That is complete and utter horse crap. So basically, according to you, Ray Rice screwed up in the way he handled this, the team screwed up, the league screwed up...everyone is wrong but you?

 

Let's ask the women here on the forum.

 

WOMEN ONLY PLEASE.

 

Do you feel that, due to the way things have been handled, you now feel like the team and/or the league think you do not matter, and abuse will be treated lightly? Is that what you girls get out of this?

 

And if you do feel that way, you will get no debate from me -- it is not my place to tell you how you should feel.

[KDUBB44]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11282439/espn-takes-stephen-smith-air-one-week

 

 

 

Not the biggest fan of these two bigots, however I agreed with Stephen's position and argument on Ray's suspension. Now ESPN has decided to give Stephen a week break. Wow wanna talk about a complete overreaction by the country and media? I'm not going to go into the nucleus of Smith's argument and the whole background of what happened with Rice but this is getting pathetic. 

[flynismo]

Agreed but it was someone on your point about if women strike first, etc. Like essentially what he said is that sometimes women can be the ones that start stuff, and they start swinging thus provoking men to do something back. If they are with the wrong person, that man is going to do something to them. It's kinda like, if a woman hits a man, nobody bats an eye. If a man hits a woman, arrest him and put him in jail, it doesn't even matter if the woman started it and provoked him, he hit her and everyone woman starts crying for him to be thrown in jail.

No doubt, but he should just have worded it a bit more gently. It's easy for me to say that; this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people, and even tougher since he has witnessed that BS first-hand, but still...he should have known to use softer words. I'm actually a little surprised by it; he is usually very quick on his feet and very well-spoken and articulate

[A Fish Called Yanda]

The media has been calling us thugs, calling Ray Lewis a murderer, calling Joe Flacco a bum, and so on and so on forever and a day now. 

 

Let them think what they want, say what they want. Who cares? No matter how it's handled they're going to make him out to be horrible anyway. 

 

As Ravens' fans I'd think we'd have thicker skin by now as far as what the media wants to say or think. I think it is way more important that right now, the organization and fans showed support for one of their own, just as they did Ray Lewis for all those years.

 

He's certainly going to take enough abuse on the road this season - don't think he needs more of the same at home.

 

I'm proud they did it, I'm proud this site isn't scared to report about it. Media can go to a nice hot place.

 

I don't mind the general hatred that we feel we get from the media, but why is this website playing into their hand?  We're making a bad situation worse, and its just plain stupid.  After the suspension was given out, there was obviously going to be backlash, but the story would die decently quickly.  All we're doing is adding fuel to the fire and extending a distraction that our team doesn't need.

[flynismo]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11282439/espn-takes-stephen-smith-air-one-week

 

 

 

Not the biggest fan of these two bigots, however I agreed with Stephen's position and argument on Ray's suspension. Now ESPN has decided to give Stephen a week break. Wow wanna talk about a complete overreaction by the country and media? I'm not going to go into the nucleus of Smith's argument and the whole background of what happened with Rice but this is getting pathetic. 

The real tragedy is .... look at the comment section below the video! It appears everyone knows what was meant, and yet the media blew this up and got Smith a week suspension.

[ravensdfan]

Ray Lewis' situation was handled pretty well though it seems especially after listening to Billick's version of it. This wasn't and if handled differently wouldn't be this horrible at all. A lot of the backlash is over the handling afterwards. With all the whining about the media not sure if most ravens fans will ever have tougher skin if they don't have it by now. The difference here in regards to the media is the message(one of many) sent to women in our society that they don't matter and abuse will be treated lightly, especially if its an athlete. 

 

As one around at the time - no it wasn't handled any differently at all. They supported Lewis throughout everything. Exactly as they've done Rice. They did not let the media determine it for them - they talked to their player - they made their decision based off of that. 

 

Why was this not handled well? I don't get why you make that claim at all. They made no statement other than in support of their player and to wait while the law and the league conducted their own investigation. Exactly like they did with Lewis.

 

Why shouldn't Janay apologize for her part in it? All reports of that second video say she struck first. Sure, Rice used a poor choice of words at one point - but really? You didn't know what he meant? So did everyone else that made a big deal about it. They knew exactly what he meant. It was making something out of nothing.

 

The message that women don't matter is from the media. That is not coming from the Ravens organization, the NFL, the fans or Ray Rice himself. If it is the message that bothers you - complain to the media that is out trumping that message. 

 

I'm female and I am not getting that message at all from a 2 game suspension. Now, I guess if I were to let the media tell me what I'm supposed to think, instead of using my own brain to understand the mitigating factors, then perhaps I'd hear that message. But it would still be coming from the media - and not anyone else.

[Gordo52]

Yeah, it truly was an idiotic way to word it, because well, it's easy to see why some people may misinterpret it, even though it doesn't take more than a few brain cells to understand what was really being said. I don't disagree with the suspension at all, Smith should have been more articulate -- it's his job!

Agreed but I think it was more of Beadles response that got him suspended.

[5aiah]

You haven't been objective. You're on one side stating your opinion. Some things you said have been objective. But most of what you said have been your opinion.

"3. The Ravens and Ray Rice agree for him to miss more games(maybe 4 more for a total of 6) while maintaining that while it's not as bad as everyone thought, it just wasn't acceptable behavior(especially for a Raven) regardless and deserves more than just 2 games. Maybe Ray Rice spends the extra time off doing things to raise awareness of domestic violence and the "grey area" that exists around it. Ray Rice bringing his personal story to the debate would be good for society and he would be forgiven by much more than just Ravens fans hoping he can run for 2k yards"

This is opinion, not objective. Not to mention, its not Rice's job to punish himself. It was the NFL's job. They punished him as they thought was fair. It was a harsher punishment than any other first time offender. Honestly I thought it should of been 4 games. But it's not like those two or four extra games would of changed anything for anyone. Its not going to make a Rice any more or less violent in the future. Rice knows what he did was wrong. He doesn't need to suspend himself longer to realize it. That makes zero sense.

You listed some subjective things I've said, sure but just as many things I've said have been either objective or the opinion of women I've discussed this with. You just listing my opinions doesn't make most of what I said personal opinion, you just picked those out from the many points I've made. What I highlighted of your response is an opinion that goes against what many have said in that his suspension rubs them the wrong way or the writers/commentators who have blasted the NFL for this. Like I said it adds to a bigger narrative, it all matters. Realizing that the message he has created is harmful and suspending himself while subtlety getting his point across of being innocent of the extreme makes a lot of sense. We are seeing the backlash for the forced/early redemption story now. 

 

Obviously you do not know the difference between your opinion and reality.

 

Rice and Janay were both the victims. That is a fact, since they were both charged with the same crime. So that is partly what I talk about when I say "public ignorance" rather than public opinion. People expected Rice to take the bullet for everyone when the woman sitting directly next to him was at least as much, if not more, to blame for this whole mess.

 

What crysis are you still going on about? Are the Ravens getting banned from the NFL? Are fans boycotting our games? No? Or is the "crysis" simply appeasing a bunch of mouthbreathing sensationalists who are looking for any angle possible to tear Rice down? Screw that. I think you are the one creating strawmen arguments here, talking about nonsense like "our image is taking a hit" as if we were some well loved team or something. People hated us before this, and they hate us now. So I am glad they did not sell Ray Rice out just for the sake of gratifying a bunch of people who don't give a crap about us in the first place.

You call it public ignorance but the fact remains that its an ignorance Rice and company created when they decided to stop the release of the full video, regardless of reason for doing so. He didn't have to take the bullet just move out the way without looking like he was using his fiancee as a shield. Me talking of our image taking a hit is not a straw man, we are widely respected despite this ridiculous inferiority complex Ravens Nation has. Sure a few people always crack about "stabby stab stab" and stuff like that, but its usually in good fun, no one is laughing about this, except at the Ravens PR. Again it's not about gratifying people who don't care about us as much as it is showing sensitivity and not being tone deaf in today's society.

 

That is complete and utter horse crap. So basically, according to you, Ray Rice screwed up in the way he handled this, the team screwed up, the league screwed up...everyone is wrong but you?

 

Let's ask the women here on the forum.

 

WOMEN ONLY PLEASE.

 

Do you feel that, due to the way things have been handled, you now feel like the team and/or the league think you do not matter, and abuse will be treated lightly? Is that what you girls get out of this?

 

And if you do feel that way, you will get no debate from me -- it is not my place to tell you how you should feel.

On the forum, really, that's who you want to ask. Female football fans of the Ravens are of course more likely to forgive and rationalize(Ravens PR showcased that) but many women I know who aren't fans of the Ravens or of football have spoken out against this specifically because of how similar it feels to other problems facing women these days. If you genuinely want to see a different perspective try reading what everyday women are saying about it or if they aren't blind ravens fans, talk to them in person. As for everyone being wrong but me, what does that have to do with Rice/Ravens/NFL screwing this up. I'll be the first to admit I'm mainly using the power of hindsight, at the same time I tie in what Billick said about sensitivity to show that they could have used that same technique but adapt it for this situation, which they failed to do and which resulted in this entire mess. 

[1/28/01]

Are you implying he wasn't?

Wonder what good ol' Skip has been saying about this

There was a 30 second clip of him being passed something, but no evidence if he accepted, pushed it away or took a puff. Given his past history, I assume he pushed it away.

[ravensdfan]

I don't mind the general hatred that we feel we get from the media, but why is this website playing into their hand?  We're making a bad situation worse, and its just plain stupid.  After the suspension was given out, there was obviously going to be backlash, but the story would die decently quickly.  All we're doing is adding fuel to the fire and extending a distraction that our team doesn't need.

 

 

Flashback Tuesday:

 

2001 report:

 

But even if he was cleared of all murder charges, a stigma remained. NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue fined Lewis $250,000 for ''tainting'' the league's image, and in stadiums around the league, he was often fair game for opposing fans. They heckled him whenever given the chance, but the more they did, the more the 6-foot-1, 245-pound Lewis seemed to elevate his game.

Lewis led the league's best defense with 184 tackles during the regular season, and in doing so, drew the loudest cheers at Baltimore's PSINet Stadium.

''It's amazing,'' Lewis said on Thursday. ''If you ever came to one of our games, you would know how the fans feel. It really is amazing.''

 

Soooooo we can cheer Ray Lewis 7 months removed from being charged with murder and pleading guilty to trying to cover it up - even though cleared of actual murder charges. But, we can't cheer Ray Rice for a mutual altercation, for which he's apologized, entered counseling and everyone that it affects personally has forgiven him for?  

 

How quickly we forget.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Flashback Tuesday:

2001 report:

But even if he was cleared of all murder charges, a stigma remained. NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue fined Lewis $250,000 for ''tainting'' the league's image, and in stadiums around the league, he was often fair game for opposing fans. They heckled him whenever given the chance, but the more they did, the more the 6-foot-1, 245-pound Lewis seemed to elevate his game.

Lewis led the league's best defense with 184 tackles during the regular season, and in doing so, drew the loudest cheers at Baltimore's PSINet Stadium.

''It's amazing,'' Lewis said on Thursday. ''If you ever came to one of our games, you would know how the fans feel. It really is amazing.''

Soooooo we can cheer Ray Lewis 7 months removed from being charged with murder and pleading guilty to trying to cover it up - even though cleared of actual murder charges. But, we can't cheer Ray Rice for a mutual altercation, for which he's apologized, entered counseling and everyone that it affects personally has forgiven him for?

How quickly we forget.

I did not say that the fans cheering for Rice was wrong. I said that its stupid for this website to promote something like that when it can be so easily twisted by the media and misconstrued by the general public.

I've already discussed my thoughts about the whole Rice assault situation numerous times in the thread. I'm not going to rehash that conversation, all I am saying is that BR.com promoting a story like that is just plain stupid.

[ravensdfan]

I can't quite tell if you're delusional, or just not bothering to read my posts.

 

I did not say that the fans cheering for Rice was wrong.  I said that its stupid for this website to promote something like that when it can be so easily twisted by the media and misconstrued by the general public.

 

I've already discussed my thoughts about the whole Rice assault situation numerous times in the thread.  I'm not going to rehash that conversation, all I am saying is that BR.com promoting a story like that is just plain stupid.

 

Last I checked, this was a Ravens' forum. Why should they not promote it? This isn't ESPN.

[flynismo]

There was a 30 second clip of him being passed something, but no evidence if he accepted, pushed it away or took a puff. Given his past history, I assume he pushed it away.

I see what you did there. lol

[ravensdfan]

Sooooo who will be our go-to guy for the first two weeks?

 

New rookie guy who broke a window while drunk - or BP?

[BmoreBird22]

have u any links to him pushing rather than hitting her? Never read any of that apart from what you've said here

I can try to find it, but most of what's out there now is about the suspension.

Still, highly unlikely he hits her and she receives no bruises or medical treatment. Think about it

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Last I checked, this was a Ravens' forum. Why should they not promote it? This isn't ESPN.

 

I'm not going to bother to retype what I've already said.

[JO_75]

Somewhat related to this topic but Dailysnark has created a petition on the Whitehouse Website that has 30 days to get 100K signatures and the White House has to respond. This petition..........

 

Impeach Roger Goodell based upon.....

 

In light of the seemingly mind bogglingly contradicting discipline rulings on Ray Rice, Josh Gordon, and Jim Irsay, we created a petition in effort to force a vote of forceful resignation under the basis of the following. “In light of seemingly corrupt decisions, a relatively incompetent Roger Goodell has hindered the NFL in his implementiation of new rules, as well as inconsistent rulings for the discipline of NFL players and management.”

 

http://dailysnark.com/petition-impeach-roger-goodell/

[ravensdfan]

Somewhat related to this topic but Dailysnark has created a petition on the Whitehouse Website that has 30 days to get 100K signatures and the White House has to respond. This petition..........

 

Impeach Roger Goodell based upon.....

 

http://dailysnark.com/petition-impeach-roger-goodell/

 

What a waste of time. No the WH does not have to respond because they have no authority. They only have to respond to things that actually pertain to things within their realm of responsibility.

 

The NFL is not a government entity. 

[A Fish Called Yanda]

What a waste of time. No the WH does not have to respond because they have no authority. They only have to respond to things that actually pertain to things within their realm of responsibility.

 

The NFL is not a government entity. 

 

They are a tax exempt organization, however.  How that flies, I'll never understand.

[flynismo]

 

On the forum, really, that's who you want to ask. Female football fans of the Ravens are of course more likely to forgive and rationalize(Ravens PR showcased that) but many women I know who aren't fans of the Ravens or of football have spoken out against this specifically because of how similar it feels to other problems facing women these days.

 

Alright, I'm sure you are tiring of going around in circles, because that's what we are doing at this point, so I'll just respond to this part.... yes, I want to ask the women here. Why? Not because of the reasons you gave.

If what we (the team/league) are doing is TRULY sending out the message you claim, the women here will know it --- and I have yet to meet a woman who puts football over their dignity. Furthermore, it is more than likely due to public ignorance that those women you know feel that way.

Now that is not a dig at those women, especially the ones who dont care about football anyway. But consider this:

 

You have said that you do not even think Rice hit Janay, correct?

Personally, I think Rice probably did at the very least slap her. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened.

Just our opinions....and we both agree that we neither of us know the truth, this is just our personal opinions, correct?

 

Okay...so about these women you are talking about. Be honest here....I'll get straight to the point. I bet you those women "know for a fact" that Rice laid Janay out. Or something very similar to that. Am I right?

 

And that is why I want to ask the women here, because as fans of this team, they will actually have paid attention to what is going on. Just so you know, it is actually quite insulting to the women here to suggest that they will look the other way towards this alleged message you say the league/team is sending -- that they have little value and the league will not really care about DV.

[flynismo]

Somewhat related to this topic but Dailysnark has created a petition on the Whitehouse Website that has 30 days to get 100K signatures and the White House has to respond. This petition..........

 

Impeach Roger Goodell based upon.....

 

http://dailysnark.com/petition-impeach-roger-goodell/

Speaking of public ignorance....

[5aiah]

As one around at the time - no it wasn't handled any differently at all. They supported Lewis throughout everything. Exactly as they've done Rice. They did not let the media determine it for them - they talked to their player - they made their decision based off of that. 

 

Why was this not handled well? I don't get why you make that claim at all. They made no statement other than in support of their player and to wait while the law and the league conducted their own investigation. Exactly like they did with Lewis.

 

Why shouldn't Janay apologize for her part in it? All reports of that second video say she struck first. Sure, Rice used a poor choice of words at one point - but really? You didn't know what he meant? So did everyone else that made a big deal about it. They knew exactly what he meant. It was making something out of nothing.

 

The message that women don't matter is from the media. That is not coming from the Ravens organization, the NFL, the fans or Ray Rice himself. If it is the message that bothers you - complain to the media that is out trumping that message. 

 

I'm female and I am not getting that message at all from a 2 game suspension. Now, I guess if I were to let the media tell me what I'm supposed to think, instead of using my own brain to understand the mitigating factors, then perhaps I'd hear that message. But it would still be coming from the media - and not anyone else.

1. When you just throw out the word media as a catchall, it kinda makes you sound like you belong in the tea party.

2. I linked to Billick's article and video when he spoke of the need to be sensitive because of the situation. There is no doubt that was key in the crisis control. In today's world we are all linked by technology and the public is a much smaller place with all of us squeezed into it. When Billick spoke of the need to not upset family and friends of the victims, I tied this into the current need to be sensitive to women in today's world. 

3. Continuing to blame the media for this is absurd, its all on the way the evidence was handled and then hidden alongside the conference and suspension. TMZ is partly to blame if they have the rest of the video and refuse to show it because they were paid off, they have a "vault" for these types of things. Regardless, at the end of the day that's on Ray and the inability to view it can be construed anyway by anyone.

4. The Ravens and the NFL are part of the media, which is why some of your points don't make sense. They both sent the message that "we've seen what we need to see and you don't need to know but everything isn't as bad and so get back to buying stuff". 

5. Again about the media, The Ravens and NFL have sent their messages to you, I'm just not sure you know it because you don't consider them the media. The 2 game suspension you speak of, was itself was a message.....

[ravensdfan]

I'm not going to bother to retype what I've already said.

 

 

Whatever covering the cheering causes it won't be worse than the following:

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/060700/spb_3248450.html

 

A snippet:

 

Go ahead, Baltimore. Cheer Ray Lewis. Give him a standing ovation. Make sure he knows how much you love him for what he is:

A liar, a stool pigeon, an obstructor of justice and a man who hangs out with convicted felons and potential murderers.

You must be very proud, Baltimore.

 

It gets worse.

 

They are a tax exempt organization, however.  How that flies, I'll never understand.

 

I don't know how that works either - but they still can't fire or impeach Goodell. 

[ravensdfan]

1. When you just throw out the word media as a catchall, it kinda makes you sound like you belong in the tea party.

2. I linked to Billick's article and video when he spoke of the need to be sensitive because of the situation. There is no doubt that was key in the crisis control. In today's world we are all linked by technology and the public is a much smaller place with all of us squeezed into it. When Billick spoke of the need to not upset family and friends of the victims, I tied this into the current need to be sensitive to women in today's world. 

3. Continuing to blame the media for this is absurd, its all on the way the evidence was handled and then hidden alongside the conference and suspension. TMZ is partly to blame if they have the rest of the video and refuse to show it because they were paid off, they have a "vault" for these types of things. Regardless, at the end of the day that's on Ray and the inability to view it can be construed anyway by anyone.

4. The Ravens and the NFL are part of the media, which is why some of your points don't make sense. They both sent the message that "we've seen what we need to see and you don't need to know but everything isn't as bad and so get back to buying stuff". 

5. Again about the media, The Ravens and NFL have sent their messages to you, I'm just not sure you know it because you don't consider them the media. The 2 game suspension you speak of, was itself was a message.....

 

 

The media is the media. I don't know why you think it's a catchall. They do this with everything. Every news channel does it. Every news blogger does it. They thrive on controversy so if one doesn't really exist - they create one.

 

Um..what was hidden? And why do you have a right to see it? 

 

The NFL is in the business of making money. So you really think they're going to alienate a bunch of women with a 2 game suspension if they don't have some intel we don't have? Really? And Goodell has never been easy on any player. Only owners get that right from him.

 

The NFL is not the media. They are the NFL. A brand. Which is why it is absurd to believe they would take any chances with their brand if there was not more to the story than we, as fans, know.

 

The 2 game suspension is a message to any logical mind that I am not privy to all the information and there is more to this story than the media is telling me.

[5aiah]

Alright, I'm sure you are tiring of going around in circles, because that's what we are doing at this point, so I'll just respond to this part.... yes, I want to ask the women here. Why? Not because of the reasons you gave.

If what we (the team/league) are doing is TRULY sending out the message you claim, the women here will know it --- and I have yet to meet a woman who puts football over their dignity. Furthermore, it is more than likely due to public ignorance that those women you know feel that way.

Now that is not a dig at those women, especially the ones who dont care about football anyway. But consider this:

 

You have said that you do not even think Rice hit Janay, correct?

Personally, I think Rice probably did at the very least slap her. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened.

Just our opinions....and we both agree that we neither of us know the truth, this is just our personal opinions, correct?

 

Okay...so about these women you are talking about. Be honest here....I'll get straight to the point. I bet you those women "know for a fact" that Rice laid Janay out. Or something very similar to that. Am I right?

 

And that is why I want to ask the women here, because as fans of this team, they will actually have paid attention to what is going on. Just so you know, it is actually quite insulting to the women here to suggest that they will look the other way towards this alleged message you say the league/team is sending -- that they have little value and the league will not really care about DV.

1. We agree on something, lol, its pretty late.

2. I think it could have been a push back where she just ended up hitting her head or just plain falling out drunk, sure. Also yes I admit to not truly knowing a thing of what transpired.

3. It's not just women I know personally, but also discussions on the topic online, so I was thinking that would give me a wider coverage. I've seen them discuss the facts and the lack of real knowledge and a lot of points still stand. Sure I'll admit there are plenty that automatically claim he knocked her out.

4. I just think nearly everyone here is a bit too close to it and is willing to rationalize a bit too easily. But sure if enough women responded we could see exactly how they felt about the aftermath, but at the same time, questions regarding its place in today's "rape culture" or  "war on women" would need to be asked as well. 

[5aiah]

The NFL is in the business of making money. So you really think they're going to alienate a bunch of women with a 2 game suspension if they don't have some intel we don't have? Really? And Goodell has never been easy on any player. Only owners get that right from him.

 

The NFL is not the media. They are the NFL. A brand. Which is why it is absurd to believe they would take any chances with their brand if there was not more to the story than we, as fans, know.

 

The 2 game suspension is a message to any logical mind that I am not privy to all the information and there is more to this story than the media is telling me.

I do not know how to stress this enough, the NFL is part of the media. They have their own channel, analysts, writers, and website. They enjoy a great amount of control over ESPN and what's said there as well. Under your definition or use of "media", the NFL is the media. Sure it's very possible(maybe even likely) that they are privy and made the right decision, but the MEDIA(NFL) has succeeded in disarming you from seriously considering the alternative, or at least it seems so when you start that sentence off like that. I'm not wearing a tin foil hat, just staying objective and showing you how it goes both ways. 

[flynismo]

1. We agree on something, lol, its pretty late.

2. I think it could have been a push back where she just ended up hitting her head or just plain falling out drunk, sure. Also yes I admit to not truly knowing a thing of what transpired.

3. It's not just women I know personally, but also discussions on the topic online, so I was thinking that would give me a wider coverage. I've seen them discuss the facts and the lack of real knowledge and a lot of points still stand. Sure I'll admit there are plenty that automatically claim he knocked her out.

4. I just think nearly everyone here is a bit too close to it and is willing to rationalize a bit too easily. But sure if enough women responded we could see exactly how they felt about the aftermath, but at the same time, questions regarding its place in today's "rape culture" or  "war on women" would need to be asked as well. 

 

I'm not sure what questions need to be asked regarding that. If you are suggesting that their attitudes towards those issues will make them naturally more predisposed one way or the other regarding my open-ended question, perhaps that is true, maybe not, but it seems to me to be very irrelevant. Unless I am missing something. According to you, I am very skilled at missing your points, so....yeah. lol

[flynismo]

I do not know how to stress this enough, the NFL is part of the media. They have their own channel, analysts, writers, and website. They enjoy a great amount of control over ESPN and what's said there as well. Under your definition or use of "media", the NFL is the media. Sure it's very possible(maybe even likely) that they are privy and made the right decision, but the MEDIA(NFL) has succeeded in disarming you from seriously considering the alternative, or at least it seems so when you start that sentence off like that. I'm not wearing a tin foil hat, just staying objective and showing you how it goes both ways. 

Ugh, here we go with the conspiracy theory again....bringing up outlandish alternatives does not make one objective!

I'll ask again, why cover up for Rice, but not many, many other players?