Ray Rice Suspended 2 Games

[1/28/01]

he said women cause domestic violence from what I read, but he didn't articulate what he meant well

Ha, nope. Definitely didnt say women cause DV.

[rmw10]

he said women cause domestic violence from what I read, but he didn't articulate what he meant well

 

This.  He basically said that women shouldn't provoke men into battering them, essentially blaming all women.  That wasn't his intention though.  He's just always been one of those guys that gets on his rants and ends up saying something stupid.  Regardless of intent, ESPN pretty much had to suspend him.

[Grapple Raven]

There is an old Southern expression I used to hear my grandmama say, "If you weren't the pillow or the bolster, you don't know."  Meaning that if you were not there to witness it, it is all just gossip/speculation. 

 

The Justice system and the NFL have had their say, you may agree or disagree but it isn't going to change anything at this point. Its just time to move on, imho.

 

 

FYI, a bolster is a long pillow that spans the width of a bed.

[flynismo]

that last sentence is where our oponions differ. You believe he should be allowed to defend himself if she hit first, I believe a man his size, with his strength, on someone as petite as her, hitting her is excessive force in my eyes.

I strongly believe I could have restrained her, let alone rice. Thats where I differ from you. Yes?

 Yes, that's where we disagree, somewhat. I believe man or woman, you should always try to leave the situation first....ideally. However, I teach my children to NEVER EVER throw the first punch, but if anyone, no matter who, puts their hands on them, they have every right to defend themselves if they choose to.

 

And I'll say what I have said all along -- Rice SHOULD have wrestled her to the ground or something. But....heat of the moment, people been drinking, trapped in an elevator so there is nowhere to go...well, whether Ray slapped her, punched her, pushed her, whatever it is he did, I'll bet Janay thinks twice before she feels the need to assault someone ever again.

 

Now.... IF Rice hit her first? All this goes out the window, I take back every word I said about Rice. I would still root for him as a person, because he clearly regrets this ever happened -- he isn't some punk off the street like Rolando (for example). But I would be outraged that he got off so easy.

 

However, since we don't actually know what really happened, clearly Rice has earned the benefit of the doubt, given his background. After all, Janay is the one with the prior criminal record, not him.

[1/28/01]

Yes, that's where we disagree, somewhat. I believe man or woman, you should always try to leave the situation first....ideally. However, I teach my children to NEVER EVER throw the first punch, but if anyone, no matter who, puts their hands on them, they have every right to defend themselves if they choose to.

And I'll say what I have said all along -- Rice SHOULD have wrestled her to the ground or something. But....heat of the moment, people been drinking, trapped in an elevator so there is nowhere to go...well, whether Ray slapped her, punched her, pushed her, whatever it is he did, I'll bet Janay thinks twice before she feels the need to assault someone ever again.

Now.... IF Rice hit her first? All this goes out the window, I take back every word I said about Rice. I would still root for him as a person, because he clearly regrets this ever happened -- he isn't some punk off the street like Rolando (for example). But I would be outraged that he got off so easy.

However, since we don't actually know what really happened, clearly Rice has earned the benefit of the doubt, given his background. After all, Janay is the one with the prior criminal record, not him.

Perfection.

[flynismo]

how can you be certain it's his mistake and not yours though?

By the very fact that I am far from alone in my opinion of a man hitting a woman in self defense....that is the very definition of "gray area"....there is no consensus. We all agree it is wrong to murder or rape....that is black and white; but this? Very fuzzy area.

[K-Dog]

It is my right to know. We fans pay his freaking salary, duh. 

Nope.  Not even a little bit.

 

Do you really believe what you do on your own time, your boss has the right to know ?

[arnie_uk]

Ha, nope. Definitely didnt say women cause DV.

thats what it's being reported he said, if it's not care to correct that?

[arnie_uk]

Yes, that's where we disagree, somewhat. I believe man or woman, you should always try to leave the situation first....ideally. However, I teach my children to NEVER EVER throw the first punch, but if anyone, no matter who, puts their hands on them, they have every right to defend themselves if they choose to.

 

And I'll say what I have said all along -- Rice SHOULD have wrestled her to the ground or something. But....heat of the moment, people been drinking, trapped in an elevator so there is nowhere to go...well, whether Ray slapped her, punched her, pushed her, whatever it is he did, I'll bet Janay thinks twice before she feels the need to assault someone ever again.

 

Now.... IF Rice hit her first? All this goes out the window, I take back every word I said about Rice. I would still root for him as a person, because he clearly regrets this ever happened -- he isn't some punk off the street like Rolando (for example). But I would be outraged that he got off so easy.

 

However, since we don't actually know what really happened, clearly Rice has earned the benefit of the doubt, given his background. After all, Janay is the one with the prior criminal record, not him.

i agree entirely with that, I just still believe he should be able to restrain her easily given the size and strength differences, but the rest I agree with, especially defending yourself.

[Tank 92]

so how 'bout dem O's hon!

[5aiah]

My point exactly. So clearly, there is some semblance of a moral code in a civilized society. And there are shades of gray, not just black and white. And with that all being said, you seem to believe that Rice's incident falls into the black area, not gray area, and that's what your mistake is.

All my posts say otherwise, most are exactly about the gray area of both the incident and the aftermath. Just because you need a straw man or are actually completely unable to comprehend the points made, doesn't excuse your hilarious attempt to paint what I've been saying, as the complete opposite of what I've been saying. 

[5aiah]

If the public mess ends up helping put an awareness on the prevelance of domestic abuse and leads to measures to help prevent it, then I'm in favor of the mess.

Sure, it's just that it didn't have to be this big hurtful mess that changes the way people look at the Ravens/Rice, in order to do all that. It's just a blown opportunity.

[1/28/01]

thats what it's being reported he said, if it's not care to correct that?

In short, he was saying woman shouldnt engage in an act that could anger ANYONE to the point where physical violence is used, or retaliation in general. His wording was poor, but he wanted to say (from my understanding and being intelligent enough to know his intentions) that there are two participants in SOME DV cases. Not all, but those where violence or other forms of abuse are met with retaliation, two parties share blame to an extent.

[flynismo]

All my posts say otherwise, most are exactly about the gray area of both the incident and the aftermath. Just because you need a straw man or are actually completely unable to comprehend the points made, doesn't excuse your hilarious attempt to paint what I've been saying, as the complete opposite of what I've been saying. 

Your points were weak, and I addressed them several times.

[5aiah]

Your points were weak, and I addressed them several times.

No they just had to do with more than football but societal issues(which you either don't understand or don't care), so you set up straw men to argue against or otherwise just flat out went off point. But no need for us to speak on this further, the posts are there.

[arnie_uk]

In short, he was saying woman shouldnt engage in an act that could anger ANYONE to the point where physical violence is used, or retaliation in general. His wording was poor, but he wanted to say (from my understanding and being intelligent enough to know his intentions) that there are two participants in SOME DV cases. Not all, but those where violence or other forms of abuse are met with retaliation, two parties share blame to an extent.

alright, understand that. Some reports saying that he said women start them or something by mistake

[flynismo]

No they just had to do with more than football but societal issues(which you either don't understand or don't care), so you set up straw men to argue against or otherwise just flat out went off point. But no need for us to speak on this further, the posts are there.

 

You mean like this one?

 

 

I don't think most people believe he started going mike tyson on her, its just that given the current social climate and the rapes(especially by football players), shootings, and objectification at an all time high in the news and minds of women, the absolute lack of sensitivity displayed by all three parties involved in both the suspension and press conference is appalling and created another hurdle the Ravens organization has to overcome. You would think by now they have so much experience with this stuff they would be versatile. Whether or not the public perception is warranted or not, none of us really know, the point is the Raven's could have saved themselves another(of many) black eye if they just balanced the need for ray rice vs the needs of the public. This isn't as much about "right or wrong" as much as it is "this or that". Some say the public isn't giving ray a fair shake, and others will say football fans are too close to see its about more than football. 

 

This is another example of what I mean by making weak points.

 

There was ZERO insensitivity shown by the people involved.  That is, unless you are one of those people who think women can hit men, but not vice versa, or think Rice was supposed to publicly kiss Janay's rear.

 

And I respect the Ravens for evaluating the situation, and showing 100%  support for one of their own as a result; public ignorance be damned, rather than selling him out just to save face.

 

In fact, you're not even making any points, you are just throwing opinions out there.

[hawkprey]

This.  He basically said that women shouldn't provoke men into battering them, essentially blaming all women.  That wasn't his intention though.  He's just always been one of those guys that gets on his rants and ends up saying something stupid.  Regardless of intent, ESPN pretty much had to suspend him.

It really annoys me how touchy everyone is. This is why most reporters called the suspension too short. If you even hint that it was "just right" or "too long", people will assume you're anti-women. Why does the media feel the need to come to the aid of dummies who take everything literally?

 

It's the same with the Rice quote about getting up after you're knocked down. Who cares if a few idiots use that to somehow come to the conclusion that Rice likes to beat women? Why does it matter what goes on in their irrelevant little heads?

[flynismo]

alright, understand that. Some reports saying that he said women start them or something by mistake

The media would never make an outrageous claim or make something out of nothing....would they?

 

I just watched what the Steve Smith clip, and 1/28/01 is exactly right about what was really said.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Why is it not a good idea?

 

The man has been vilified in the media, the court of public opinion, terrorized on twitter, lost 1/2 a million dollars in penalties when all is said and done. If he was a regular Joe, with his background of community service and being a first time offender - he'd have gotten PBJ or nothing but a fine and/or community service hours (nothing near 1/2 million dollars) and went about his life. 

 

This is the only manner fans have to say "we're willing to give you another chance, in light of all you've done for the city and the community".

 

Please let's not act like those fans were cheering him for hitting his wife. That is just absurd.

 

Uhh, have you missed the reaction to that video (and to the fact that Ravens organization is promoting it) from the general public?

 

Obviously the fans were not cheering him for hitting his wife.  I did not say that, and it would be utterly idiotic to say that.  That being said, the way that things are skewed in the media, and the way soundbites are used nowadays drives public opinion on a matter.  The general public's opinion of Ray Rice is already terrible, because they mostly get their information from news stories like the Bleacher Report vomited out today.  It will be spun as if we are cheering him for hitting his wife - or completely ignoring what happened.  It looks terrible for our organization - thats not how PR works.  It was an idiotic move to post that video and promote it via social media.

 

Pushing out stuff like this will only further allow the media to vilify him.

[arnie_uk]

The media would never make an outrageous claim or make something out of nothing....would they?

 

I just watched what the Steve Smith clip, and 1/28/01 is exactly right about what was really said.

I've seen a direct quote from it now as well. I think they over emphasised the title a bit to attract readers but had the direct quote linked in

[jimjim5]

In short, he was saying woman shouldnt engage in an act that could anger ANYONE to the point where physical violence is used, or retaliation in general. His wording was poor, but he wanted to say (from my understanding and being intelligent enough to know his intentions) that there are two participants in SOME DV cases. Not all, but those where violence or other forms of abuse are met with retaliation, two parties share blame to an extent.

I think it's a good point he made. I have witnessed this scenerio often where a women provokes a man to the worst degree with the assumption that the man will not do anything to her because 1) He is a man. 2) She can just make up a story to jail the man. - I met two women that were like this and admitted they would do these type of things. It is a negative thing in a subset of a culture that most of the people on this board can't relate to and have never fathomed that there are many women that do these type of things.

These women are NOT sugar and spice and everything nice. Think Love and Hip-Hop, Real Housewives, Jersey Shore. That wild stuff is real in the hood. These type of women are hyper emotional powder kegs.

[flynismo]

I've seen a direct quote from it now as well. I think they over emphasised the title a bit to attract readers but had the direct quote linked in

Yeah, it truly was an idiotic way to word it, because well, it's easy to see why some people may misinterpret it, even though it doesn't take more than a few brain cells  to understand what was really being said. I don't disagree with the suspension at all, Smith should have been more articulate -- it's his job!

[5aiah]

You mean like this one?

 

 

 

This is another example of what I mean by making weak points.

 

There was ZERO insensitivity shown by the people involved.  That is, unless you are one of those people who think women can hit men, but not vice versa, or think Rice was supposed to publicly kiss Janay's rear.

 

And I respect the Ravens for evaluating the situation, and showing 100%  support for one of their own as a result; public ignorance be damned, rather than selling him out just to save face.

 

In fact, you're not even making any points, you are just throwing opinions out there.

1. If you think they were sensitive then you aren't following the bigger discussion or ignorant of it. This is what i mean about you not being able to comprehend.

2. I thought we didn't know who hit who? You saw the video? You've been talking up the "she hit first" angle while I've reiterated my belief that don't believe he even hit her, but that I recognize I know nothing of what transpired. That's what I mean about a straw man btw.

3. It certainly riled people up to see the alleged victim apologizing during what was surely a planned out conference, that was pretty stupid. Fact

4. it's not about selling him out, its about a organization used to these big controversies, screwing up one of the easier ones they were faced with for an epic misfire that just won't die. It's still going on in national discussion how big a screw up this is in terms of crisis control. The conversation is no longer about what transpired, but about how bad(and hilarious) the Ravens PR is. It's a fact that no organization want's to continue dealing with this, and my point was that they didn't have to. 

5.There are facts and opinions in my arguments, the difference between us is that I actually know the difference.

[5aiah]

Uhh, have you missed the reaction to that video (and to the fact that Ravens organization is promoting it) from the general public?

 

Obviously the fans were not cheering him for hitting his wife.  I did not say that, and it would be utterly idiotic to say that.  That being said, the way that things are skewed in the media, and the way soundbites are used nowadays drives public opinion on a matter.  The general public's opinion of Ray Rice is already terrible, because they mostly get their information from news stories like the Bleacher Report vomited out today.  It will be spun as if we are cheering him for hitting his wife - or completely ignoring what happened.  It looks terrible for our organization - thats not how PR works.  It was an idiotic move to post that video and promote it via social media.

 

Pushing out stuff like this will only further allow the media to vilify him.

Someone that gets it.....

[ratedr]

Uhh, have you missed the reaction to that video (and to the fact that Ravens organization is promoting it) from the general public?

Obviously the fans were not cheering him for hitting his wife. I did not say that, and it would be utterly idiotic to say that. That being said, the way that things are skewed in the media, and the way soundbites are used nowadays drives public opinion on a matter. The general public's opinion of Ray Rice is already terrible, because they mostly get their information from news stories like the Bleacher Report vomited out today. It will be spun as if we are cheering him for hitting his wife - or completely ignoring what happened. It looks terrible for our organization - thats not how PR works. It was an idiotic move to post that video and promote it via social media.

Pushing out stuff like this will only further allow the media to vilify him.

Exactly. When it happened I thought to myself "I hope the Ravens idiotic PR department doesn't post a story about this." Well...

It's like the Ravens want to write a redemption story for him without Ray having actually done anything yet. Nothing has acknowledged the gravity of the situation, just a bunch of puff pieces essentially saying "why can't the world see what an amazing guy Ray Rice is?" Uh, because what the world sees with Rice is the image of him dragging his fiancee out of an elevator. Now isn't the time to push his good guy image, you tell him to lay low, let the story recede, and then gradually attempt to rebuild his image (assuming his play improves as well). This is PR 101, and it's just shocking how poorly the organization has handled it.

And count of me as one who doesn't feel the need to "rally for Rice." I didn't boo him yesterday, but I'm definitely not cheering for him just for coming out. Not enough words to express my disappointment at that reception, especially given the chilly reception Flacco received just moments earlier.

[baroquenspirit]

yeah, and some learn from their mistakes and some don't. 

Obviously you are not talking about Ben, since you didn't pay any attention to his case. 

[ravensdfan]

Uhh, have you missed the reaction to that video (and to the fact that Ravens organization is promoting it) from the general public?

 

Obviously the fans were not cheering him for hitting his wife.  I did not say that, and it would be utterly idiotic to say that.  That being said, the way that things are skewed in the media, and the way soundbites are used nowadays drives public opinion on a matter.  The general public's opinion of Ray Rice is already terrible, because they mostly get their information from news stories like the Bleacher Report vomited out today.  It will be spun as if we are cheering him for hitting his wife - or completely ignoring what happened.  It looks terrible for our organization - thats not how PR works.  It was an idiotic move to post that video and promote it via social media.

 

Pushing out stuff like this will only further allow the media to vilify him.

 

The media has been calling us thugs, calling Ray Lewis a murderer, calling Joe Flacco a bum, and so on and so on forever and a day now. 

 

Let them think what they want, say what they want. Who cares? No matter how it's handled they're going to make him out to be horrible anyway. 

 

As Ravens' fans I'd think we'd have thicker skin by now as far as what the media wants to say or think. I think it is way more important that right now, the organization and fans showed support for one of their own, just as they did Ray Lewis for all those years.

 

He's certainly going to take enough abuse on the road this season - don't think he needs more of the same at home.

 

I'm proud they did it, I'm proud this site isn't scared to report about it. Media can go to a nice hot place.

[JO_75]

Yeah, it truly was an idiotic way to word it, because well, it's easy to see why some people may misinterpret it, even though it doesn't take more than a few brain cells  to understand what was really being said. I don't disagree with the suspension at all, Smith should have been more articulate -- it's his job!

 

Agreed but it was someone on your point about if women strike first, etc. Like essentially what he said is that sometimes women can be the ones that start stuff, and they start swinging thus provoking men to do something back. If they are with the wrong person, that man is going to do something to them. It's kinda like, if a woman hits a man, nobody bats an eye. If a man hits a woman, arrest him and put him in jail, it doesn't even matter if the woman started it and provoked him, he hit her and everyone woman starts crying for him to be thrown in jail.

[5aiah]

The media has been calling us thugs, calling Ray Lewis a murderer, calling Joe Flacco a bum, and so on and so on forever and a day now. 

 

Let them think what they want, say what they want. Who cares? No matter how it's handled they're going to make him out to be horrible anyway. 

 

As Ravens' fans I'd think we'd have thicker skin by now as far as what the media wants to say or think. I think it is way more important that right now, the organization and fans showed support for one of their own, just as they did Ray Lewis for all those years.

 

Ray Lewis' situation was handled pretty well though it seems especially after listening to Billick's version of it. This wasn't and if handled differently wouldn't be this horrible at all. A lot of the backlash is over the handling afterwards. With all the whining about the media not sure if most ravens fans will ever have tougher skin if they don't have it by now. The difference here in regards to the media is the message(one of many) sent to women in our society that they don't matter and abuse will be treated lightly, especially if its an athlete.