Brandon Flowers

[rmw10]

I'd still rather have flowers over all of them with Florence as a second choice

 

I think everyone would rather have Flowers lol.  But yeah, Florence is probably my second choice as well.

[Ravenskid52752]

ok idk if it's a apocalypse happen soon and the ravens want all the CB they can get before it goes down. lol

[BloodRaven]

Have you seen him in press?  It's not pretty.

 

Either way, I think this is getting a little off topic.  The point still remains that Flowers can fit scheme wise, but maybe not money wise.

 

The point is thats why he was drafted, but now that twitter says we're raiding the scrapheap for tryouts I'm assuming Chykie is no longer seen as viable. Even if Pees sticks with mixed coverages Jimmy Smith is limited when we're in zone and Flowers is limited in man.

[The Raven]

That applies to every team out there...

 

 

How does that make sense what you just said? Our best corner is built for press coverage and yet you say we're not built for press coverage at all? You have any numbers to back up those claims? % Wise how do we stack up against the rest in the NFL? And don't you think it had anything to do with us not having a decent safety back there to cover deep? That we were forced to play off a lot because of that and not because Jimmy is so great at it? Our safeties were horrible covering deep, we got beat like a drum with deep balls, that's why we played off, not because Jimmy excels in off coverage. He doesn't. If he did and if we played it so often he'd have around 10 interceptions by now. He's the furthest thing from a good off corner. Guys like that need tremendous instincts & awareness, a lot of experience and a natural feel for routes and being able to read QB's. That's not what Jimmy does.

 

And you just basically pointed out the obvious. Jimmy is a press specialist. What exactly is the point of not playing press with a guy like that? Yes, we play off here and there like everybody else in the NFL (mainly because we had to, in my opinion), we don't just play ONE coverage 100% of the time. But that's our bread & butter. Jimmy is not an off corner, he's built to play press with his size, his long arms, how strong he is and his lack of experience/instincts to excel in zone or in off coverage. You sprinkle in some off coverages to balance it out a little here and there to help your safeties a little maybe, but anything more than that is a waste of talent and skill. Look, if we had Earl Thomas back there or a prime Ed Reed we definitely would have rarely played off coverage, and even then it would have not been played because our corners excel in off coverage but because we have to balance things out and keep offenses on their toes.

 

I guess you didn't know this, but typically you have between four and six cornerbacks on the roster. Jimmy is the only guy we have I trust full time in press. That's why we're not built for press.

 

Also, Jimmy is actually quite good in off man. He improved greatly in that area.

[The Raven]

Have you seen him in press?  It's not pretty.

 

Either way, I think this is getting a little off topic.  The point still remains that Flowers can fit scheme wise, but maybe not money wise.

 

I wouldn't say he's bad in press. I'd say he's hit or miss, literally and figuratively.

 

Once his technique is worked out I think he'll make a fine press corner.

 

The point is thats why he was drafted, but now that twitter says we're raiding the scrapheap for tryouts I'm assuming Chykie is no longer seen as viable. Even if Pees sticks with mixed coverages Jimmy Smith is limited when we're in zone and Flowers is limited in man.

 

 

I don't think it's that. I think the coaches just really want more bodies. How many CBs do we have? Four, and two of them aren't exactly starter material yet.

[rmw10]

I wouldn't say he's bad in press. I'd say he's hit or miss, literally and figuratively.

 

Once his technique is worked out I think he'll make a fine press corner.

 

He certainly has his moments.  I've just seen way too many times where he's too slow off the line and doesn't even get a chance to engage before his guy is behind him.

 

Chykie is your true up and down player.

[Willbacker]

The point is thats why he was drafted, but now that twitter says we're raiding the scrapheap for tryouts I'm assuming Chykie is no longer seen as viable. Even if Pees sticks with mixed coverages Jimmy Smith is limited when we're in zone and Flowers is limited in man.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's that. I think the coaches just really want more bodies. How many CBs do we have? Four, and two of them aren't exactly starter material yet.

Chykie's got to have some competition and we need to bring in a vet. I still believe they have confidence in Brown. If Brown and Asa perform well with possibly one of the RFAs performing well also then you can cut the vet. Flowers tho will be too much money.

[BloodRaven]

I wouldn't say he's bad in press. I'd say he's hit or miss, literally and figuratively.

 

Once his technique is worked out I think he'll make a fine press corner.

 

I don't think it's that. I think the coaches just really want more bodies. How many CBs do we have? Four, and two of them aren't exactly starter material yet.

 

I was expecting competition, but by competition I mean an upgrade. Chykie isn't the most consistent but he doesn't get torched any more than the bums we're bringing in.

[BmoreBird22]

I was expecting competition, but by competition I mean an upgrade. Chykie isn't the most consistent but he doesn't get torched any more than the bums we're bringing in.

That's because he's hardly on the field

[flynismo]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000358894/article/brandon-flowers-reportedly-contacted-by-10-teams

We are one of the teams talking to him

[BloodRaven]

That's because he's hardly on the field

 

He's played 500 snaps over his career, enough for a rough indication of his consistency.

[757RavensFan]

And another one...

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet

Along with CB Drayton Florence, #Ravens are also bringing in Marquice Cole, former #Patriot & #Jet, to try out for #Ravens during minicamp

 

This has to be demoralizing for Chykie and Asa!  They're bringing in almost every available CB to possibly play over these two. 

[1/28/01]

This has to be demoralizing for Chykie and Asa! They're bringing in almost every available CB to possibly play over these two.

And sadly, they should be doing just that.

[rmw10]

This has to be demoralizing for Chykie and Asa!  They're bringing in almost every available CB to possibly play over these two. 

 

I doubt we sign more than 1 of them though.  It's all on a tryout basis.

[The Raven]

I doubt we sign more than 1 of them though.  It's all on a tryout basis.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Chykie and Asa knew we would be signing some CBs soon. I mean... we only have four under contract. 

 

I doubt they're demoralized. It's competition and it makes the team better. They know that, and they know they will still be given a chance.

[BmoreBird22]

He's played 500 snaps over his career, enough for a rough indication of his consistency.

Awesome, he played half of the amount of snaps that Jimmy played all last year. Those are all defensive, no special teams as well?

Anyway, he's playing ten snaps a game (and it is possible that a fair amount are run plays), where as Jimmy and Webb and those "bums" are playing roughly 60. Tell me which of those guys has a higher chance of getting targeted or beat.

[rmw10]

Also, I'm pretty sure Chykie and Asa knew we would be signing some CBs soon. I mean... we only have four under contract. 

 

I doubt they're demoralized. It's competition and it makes the team better. They know that, and they know they will still be given a chance.

 

Yeah if we sign any of these guys, both Chykie and Asa still have a good chance to win the #3 job.  Brandon Flowers is probably the only CB out there that would mean Chykie and Asa have no chance of winning the nickel spot.

[The Raven]

Repeating for emphasis: These guys are most likely being brought in for quality depth and to bring more veteran experience to a very young secondary. These guys will be given a shot for the number three CB spot, but I still think Asa or Chykie pull away with it.

[rmw10]

Repeating for emphasis: These guys are most likely being brought in for quality depth and to bring more veteran experience to a very young secondary. These guys will be given a shot for the number three CB spot, but I still think Asa or Chykie pull away with it.

 

Also important to emphasize:

 

We need depth in case of injury.  If Webb or Jimmy were to get hurt, our #2-4 CBs would be Chykie, Asa, and a UDFA.  It's good to have veteran depth.

[BmoreBird22]

Repeating for emphasis: These guys are most likely being brought in for quality depth and to bring more veteran experience to a very young secondary. These guys will be given a shot for the number three CB spot, but I still think Asa or Chykie pull away with it.

I think if they sign Florence or Flowers, it's their job. A guy like Ross or Thomas should win it, but injury history is a concern. The rest, up for grabs

[BloodRaven]

Repeating for emphasis: These guys are most likely being brought in for quality depth and to bring more veteran experience to a very young secondary. These guys will be given a shot for the number three CB spot, but I still think Asa or Chykie pull away with it.

 

Thats a good point, a guy like Asa may have "experience" entering his 3rd season but I don't think he's dressed very often let alone made the statline.

[JetLife94]

I getting flowers would make this defence top 5 automatically. Still iffy on FS

[sflegend89]

Definitely hoping we can pull Brandon Flowers but Florence would make a nice consolation prize if he signs elsewhere. Glad were interested in Flowers though, shows we're serious about putting together the best football team possible.

[dhstandard]

But I'm not talking about playing time. I realize that in today's NFL the nickel corner is playing a lot, just like slot receivers do. But in the classical sense it's a backup job, because you don't line up out there 90-95% of the time. The #1 or #2 corner does. The starting safeties do. The nickel corner only makes it on the field in sub packages, when they substitute players, to match the offense if they line up with more than 2 receivers or a TE split out wide for instance. That's not a true starting job and you know that. Darren Sproles is getting a lot of playing time but he's a backup, he's not a true starting tailback. A backup is not just somebody that doesn't get ANY playing time (Tyrod). To me it's somebody who doesn't line up out there all the time, 90-95% of the time maybe, and only makes it on the field in certain situations. Nickel back, slot receiver, pass rushing specialists (Suggs as a rookie, just because he got a lot of playing time doesn't mean he was a starter), run stuffer (Cody) and so on. Pride is what will keep Flowers from accepting a job as a 3rd corner. But we will see I guess.

 

It is a "true starting job".  That's like saying Suggs isn't a starter because he sits on the sidelines for a lot of plays.  A backup is a reserve player in case someone goes down.  Being a nickel corner is NOT a backup job.  Especially with all the great slot receivers as mentioned before.

[Bullrush]

It is a "true starting job".  That's like saying Suggs isn't a starter because he sits on the sidelines for a lot of plays.  A backup is a reserve player in case someone goes down.  Being a nickel corner is NOT a backup job.  Especially with all the great slot receivers as mentioned before.

 

That's about as silly a comparison as I've ever heard. You might want to look up the definition/meaning of the word "starter". What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

[dhstandard]

That's about as silly a comparison as I've ever heard. You might want to look up the definition/meaning of the word "starter". What you just said makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Regardless of the comparison you are still totally incorrect.  A backup position means you backup the player in case they go down.  The nickel spot is it's own position.  The same way a Will linebacker is not really the backup for the Mike linebacker.  They are largely separate positions.  

 

You have two outside corners and a nickel corner.  The rest are backups.  You don't equate playing time to whether a player is a starter.  

[Bullrush]

Regardless of the comparison you are still totally incorrect.  A backup position means you backup the player in case they go down.  The nickel spot is it's own position.  The same way a Will linebacker is not really the backup for the Mike linebacker.  They are largely separate positions.  

 

You have two outside corners and a nickel corner.  The rest are backups.  You don't equate playing time to whether a player is a starter.  

 

Regardless of the comparison? That was your whole point. A backup is somebody who usually doesn't see the field unless it is in specific situations or as you already mentioned it without realizing, in case somebody (the starter) goes down. The typical starting lineup in the NFL consists of two starting cornerbacks. That's where that term comes from. It doesn't come from who is getting how many snaps. You are confusing these two things. All that is scheme-related. If we play a team that doesn't have a QB who can throw which forces them to run the ball 50 times, I'll put some run stuffers on the field in response to that and they'll get most of the snaps. That doesn't mean they're "starters".

 

Cody is not a starter just because somebody decides to run the ball a lot on us and we have to keep him out there. I don't know why I'm even pointing these things out, it's so obvious. And you still haven't answered my question why nickel corners are NOT eligible for Pro Bowls, why the NFL will not allow you or anybody to vote a nickel corner in. Nickel corners get a lot of playing time in most teams, nobody is arguing that. But it is situational, no team lines up with 3 corners unless they have to. The typical starting formation consists of 2 receivers and 2 corners, those are the starters. If you line up with 3 receivers the defense will send out their sub package, a nickel formation with pass rushing D-Linemen on the field as well as an additional corner instead of a linebacker to defend the pass. That doesn't mean they're "starters". And I guarantee you that no cornerback who thinks highly enough of himself, who has been a #1 or #2 corner his entire career, will consider a nickel job a starting position. It's a demotion to a backup role. It'd be like us now asking Ngata to only enter the field in obvious running situations. He'll still get plenty of playing time but ask him if that's a starting job. Either way, I'm done with this. This has been going on forever.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Regardless of the comparison? That was your whole point. A backup is somebody who usually doesn't see the field unless it is in specific situations or as you already mentioned it without realizing, in case somebody (the starter) goes down. The typical starting lineup in the NFL consists of two starting cornerbacks. That's where that term comes from. It doesn't come from who is getting how many snaps. You are confusing these two things. All that is scheme-related. If we play a team that doesn't have a QB who can throw which forces them to run the ball 50 times, I'll put some run stuffers on the field in response to that and they'll get most of the snaps. That doesn't mean they're "starters".

Cody is not a starter just because somebody decides to run the ball a lot on us and we have to keep him out there. I don't know why I'm even pointing these things out, it's so obvious. And you still haven't answered my question why nickel corners are NOT eligible for Pro Bowls, why the NFL will not allow you or anybody to vote a nickel corner in. Nickel corners get a lot of playing time in most teams, nobody is arguing that. But it is situational, no team lines up with 3 corners unless they have to. The typical starting formation consists of 2 receivers and 2 corners, those are the starters. If you line up with 3 receivers the defense will send out their sub package, a nickel formation with pass rushing D-Linemen on the field as well as an additional corner instead of a linebacker to defend the pass. That doesn't mean they're "starters". And I guarantee you that no cornerback who thinks highly enough of himself, who has been a #1 or #2 corner his entire career, will consider a nickel job a starting position. It's a demotion to a backup role. It'd be like us now asking Ngata to only enter the field in obvious running situations. He'll still get plenty of playing time but ask him if that's a starting job. Either way, I'm done with this. This has been going on forever.

Yea that bum of a "backup" Dumervil... Don't know how we got him here with a demotion.

If he gets paid like a starter, plays like a starter, then he's a starter. And I'm sure Flowers would love to get paid the same to play a little less. I think you're way over valuing ego in the equation - money has a way helping players overlook silly designations like "starter" and "backup."

The question isn't if flowers would come here and be ok in a 3 man rotation... The question is whether we'd pony up the coin for a 3rd starter knowing what we've already got invested in our top 2 with Jimmy's pay day not having really come yet. I guarantee Flowers would tattoo "ravens backup" on his forehead and play nickel for $5-6 million.

Oh and by the same logic that Cody's not a starter even if he actually starts (huh????) just because another team decides to run the ball - Flowers then is a starter by talent level or production or whatever designation you're choosing to use regardless because it would just be the ravens making a choice to invest in 3 starters at that position. It's a stupid definition.

Try this on for size... Whichever 11 players actually "start" a game on the field are the "starters" for that game on that unit. You're arguing talent level, production, or effectiveness. "Starter" and "backup" aren't proper designations for the argument you're trying to have.

[Bullrush]

I getting flowers would make this defence top 5 automatically. Still iffy on FS

 

I wouldn't mind bringing him in to play FS here. He's got a little bit of Ed Reed in him in terms of their playing style. Good tackler, physical, great in zone, leadership, he's rather short, has decent ball skills & instincts. Not in the same league as Reed or even close to Reed obviously but he could make a good center fielder if the FO doesn't have faith in Brooks getting it done as a rookie.

[Ravensfan23]

I wouldn't mind bringing him in to play FS here. He's got a little bit of Ed Reed in him in terms of their playing style. Good tackler, physical, great in zone, leadership, he's rather short, has decent ball skills & instincts. Not in the same league as Reed or even close to Reed obviously but he could make a good center fielder if the FO doesn't have faith in Brooks getting it done as a rookie.

Not really directing this at you, more in general. Why do so many people seem to think it's just so easy for a CB to convert into a FS. Being a good FS is about way more then just playing center field and being a good tackler.

As far the CB situation, i like Franks for some reason. I was a big fan of his coming out of the draft in 2010 but didn't follow him at all in ATL. He's still pretty young and has good size/speed combo. I think he'd be a good option to compete with Brown and Ajax. I think who ever they sign will have to be a solid ST guy.