Brandon Flowers

[Inqui]

I am talking about playing time. Again, I'd rather be a "back-up" that plays 70%+ of snaps than a "starter" who gets rotated out heavily. Sure, maybe he won't see the field on 90% of snaps, but 70% of snaps isn't something to scoff at. 

Cody was technically a starter in his second year.

I can see that conversation in Ozzie's office.

Ozzie: So Brandon, I'm pleased we could do business together. I think this contract suits us both, and all you have to do is sign it and you're a Baltimore Raven.

Brandon: Sweet, so I'll be able to play like 90% of the snaps?

Ozzie: Not exactly, sorry. We can rotate you between outside and nickel CB. We can see you being on the field for about 70% of those snaps, maybe more depending on your quality of play and how everyone else keeps up.

Brandon: Well, this is awkward...

[BmoreBird22]

I can see that conversation in Ozzie's office.

Ozzie: So Brandon, I'm pleased we could do business together. I think this contract suits us both, and all you have to do is sign it and you're a Baltimore Raven.

Brandon: Sweet, so I'll be able to play like 90% of the snaps?

Ozzie: Not exactly, sorry. We can rotate you between outside and nickel CB. We can see you being on the field for about 70% of those snaps, maybe more depending on your quality of play and how everyone else keeps up.

Brandon: Well, this is awkward...

It's like you have a hidden camera in that office...

[Bullrush]

To build on the point Bullrush made we have two corners that play over 90% of the defensive snaps, Corey Graham played 63%. Does anyone seriously think Flowers would want to be a backup when he could be a starter for a cover 2 team? oh yeah, he also doesn't like to play the slot.

 

I can always count on you to step up and make sense. Appreciate it.

[BloodRaven]

Heres another problem I see with Flowers on our defense, even if you move Webb to slot Flowers is more limited than Chykie is man press coverage, which along with single high safety is what our defense is geared towards, we brought in Huff and now Brooks to replace Reed in deep alignment, and big press corners in Jimmy and Chykie who are projected to pair up on the outside. You could throw Flowers in the mix (ignoring that he doesn't want to be a backup) and a lot more cover 2-3-4 looks but that wouldn't be playing to our strengths.

[rmw10]

Heres another problem I see with Flowers on our defense, even if you move Webb to slot Flowers is more limited than Chykie is man press coverage, which along with single high safety is what our defense is geared towards, we brought in Huff and now Brooks to replace Reed in deep alignment, and big press corners in Jimmy and Chykie who are projected to pair up on the outside. You could throw Flowers in the mix (ignoring that he doesn't want to be a backup) and a lot more cover 2-3-4 looks but that wouldn't be playing to our strengths.

 

We play a lot more off man than press man.

[BloodRaven]

I can always count on you to step up and make sense. Appreciate it.

 

This place is a madhouse whenever someone is cut, any known name regardless of if the guy is a good fit or not. It reminds me of Laker fans, "Oh man we gon get Lebron, Melo, Love, Durant, Rose, Griffin..."

[443hurricane]

Found this information on a vikings blog

I think maybe Flowers should still be given a call, but I wouldn't offer him more than a dumervilsque type of deal.

 

 

They made a call to a player who, despite his Pro Bowl selection in 2013, was rated last year as among the worst corners in the league by Pro Football Focus. They made a call to a player who arguably is not a good fit in Mike Zimmer’s scheme with its press-man looks.

 

This is why you call Brandon Flowers fellas

 

Why call Brandon Flowers at all? Because you looked at your depth chart and realized that you are still in some difficulty.

[BloodRaven]

We play a lot more off man than press man.

 

Because we were limited and haven't found a replacement for Reed, cover 1 is typically man to man. On paper the pieces we have fit, Flowers doesn't.

[Ravenslifer]

Depends on his asking price - we have two excellent starting corners despite the fact that both have had injury concerns in the past.  Flowers would be asked to take a role behind them, and should expect to be compensated as such if he comes here.

[Ozzsome]

Because we were limited and haven't found a replacement for Reed, cover 1 is typically man to man. On paper the pieces we have fit, Flowers doesn't.

Cover 1 man to man by no means means press coverage.

The problem I have if you want to call it back up or nickel corner or whatever I don't care but if Flowers has to decide between playing 100% of the snaps as a #1,#2 corner or play like 65% as a nickel/#3/back up corner, he'll most likely take the first option. Everybody would do that.

[rmw10]

Because we were limited and haven't found a replacement for Reed, cover 1 is typically man to man. On paper the pieces we have fit, Flowers doesn't.

 

Can't argue with the first part, but Flowers still fits.  Our defense would still have plenty of zone and off man coverages even with a true single high safety.  Single high safeties aren't exactly the easiest to find either.  Brooks could be it but we haven't even got to see him play yet.

[BloodRaven]

Can't argue with the first part, but Flowers still fits.  Our defense would still have plenty of zone and off man coverages even with a true single high safety.  Single high safeties aren't exactly the easiest to find either.  Brooks could be it but we haven't even got to see him play yet.

 

I'm not advocating that we only play press thats just the way we're built at the moment. With that said Chykie is still unproven and we probably should upgrade the depth but I'd prefer someone with a more rounded skillset.

[rmw10]

I'm not advocating that we only play press thats just the way we're built at the moment. With that said Chykie is still unproven and we probably should upgrade the depth but I'd prefer someone with a more rounded skillset.

 

No, we're not built for press at all.  Jimmy is a press specialist, but he's more than adequate in off man.  If we were built for press man, we'd play it a lot more often than we do.

[BmoreBird22]

No, we're not built for press at all.  Jimmy is a press specialist, but he's more than adequate in off man.  If we were built for press man, we'd play it a lot more often than we do.

Pees is a pretty big user of off man coverage from what I remember, anyway

[rmw10]

Pees is a pretty big user of off man coverage from what I remember, anyway

 

He certainly has been in his time here.  I can't speak for his NE days.

[BmoreBird22]

He certainly has been in his time here.  I can't speak for his NE days.

I think he did from what I remember. His defensive philosophies are very similar to what they were in NE

[B-more Ravor]

Canty is going nowhere this year despite the 2M.  Besides, we need him to help our rookies (Urban and Lewis-Moore) to learn how to play the position before we turn them lose.  I don't think he will be back next year, because cutting him makes more sense with a savings of 2.6M that can be used to sign other players.  Hopefully by then we will have a clear idea if one of these other 2 guys are ready to step in to fill the job or we will have already gone out and gotten another FA.

Oh, I agree. People keeping throwing his name around as a guy who is going to be (or could be) cut, but if that was the case, they would have done so before paying him the $500K roster bonus.

[gabefergy]

Why are people talking about us playing a lot of press? We rarely press, maybe 15-20% at most. Mostly off man with a lot of cover 2 and cover 3.

 

Here's what really matters. Flowers is going to sign with whoever pays him the most. If anything thinks he is going to take less money to play more snaps they are fooling themselves.

[rmw10]

Why are people talking about us playing a lot of press? We rarely press, maybe 15-20% at most. Mostly off man with a lot of cover 2 and cover 3.

 

Here's what really matters. Flowers is going to sign with whoever pays him the most. If anything thinks he is going to take less money to play more snaps they are fooling themselves.

 

People questioning the fit.  A lot people seem to think we play a lot of press because we have Jimmy but that's entirely false.

 

As you said though, it all comes down to the money.  If we want him and are willing to pay him, we'll find a way to get him here.

[gabefergy]

I think that's pretty much his point; starters, regardless of position, don't only play 70% of their teams snaps.

But I think it is pointless to argue over semantics; I think it just comes down to the money...same story as always; will he take a little less to come here, because another team will almost certainly offer him more cash, regardless of whether they view him as a starter or "just a nickel"

DL and LB rotate all the time, does that mean none of them are starters? 

 

Last year Corey Graham played 703 snaps. Chris Canty played 579. Arthur Jones played 530. Haloti Ngata played 714. Does that mean that none of them are starters because they are taken off the field a lot?

 

What matters is what you said at the end. It's all going to come down to the money.

[Tenacious Faulker]

I;m not sure it's been said in the previous 9 pages of text, but Flowers was cut b/c he was going to be paid $5.25M and wasn't a hit in dead money.  From the last spotrac.com assessment the Ravens have about $5.5M in cap space.  Someone of his abilities may be worth too much on the open market unless he willing to take a lower deal because coming ere is what he wants.  If that happens I can see The Wiz cutting few dead branches to have him here, but he he'd have to know he'd be our new Samari Rolle - not the top guy and an every-down CB in a role playing capacity.

 

The Ravens really are more likely to net a guuy like Chris Johnson recent cut from the Lions because of injury.  He's a similar caliber player about the same age and experience, but can be had for much less in a "prove it" one year, low-cost deal like Daryl Smith.

[B-more Ravor]

I;m not sure it's been said in the previous 9 pages of text, but Flowers was cut b/c he was going to be paid $5.25M and wasn't a hit in dead money. From the last spotrac.com assessment the Ravens have about $5.5M in cap space

Spotrac is not the most reliable source when it come to the a Ravens Cap. Over The Cap is a much better source, but they are also a little off for the Ravens.

The Ravens are currently $4.3M under the Cap.

[Bullrush]

People questioning the fit.  A lot people seem to think we play a lot of press because we have Jimmy but that's entirely false.

 

As you said though, it all comes down to the money.  If we want him and are willing to pay him, we'll find a way to get him here.

 

That applies to every team out there...

 

No, we're not built for press at all.  Jimmy is a press specialist, but he's more than adequate in off man.  If we were built for press man, we'd play it a lot more often than we do.

 

How does that make sense what you just said? Our best corner is built for press coverage and yet you say we're not built for press coverage at all? You have any numbers to back up those claims? % Wise how do we stack up against the rest in the NFL? And don't you think it had anything to do with us not having a decent safety back there to cover deep? That we were forced to play off a lot because of that and not because Jimmy is so great at it? Our safeties were horrible covering deep, we got beat like a drum with deep balls, that's why we played off, not because Jimmy excels in off coverage. He doesn't. If he did and if we played it so often he'd have around 10 interceptions by now. He's the furthest thing from a good off corner. Guys like that need tremendous instincts & awareness, a lot of experience and a natural feel for routes and being able to read QB's. That's not what Jimmy does.

 

And you just basically pointed out the obvious. Jimmy is a press specialist. What exactly is the point of not playing press with a guy like that? Yes, we play off here and there like everybody else in the NFL (mainly because we had to, in my opinion), we don't just play ONE coverage 100% of the time. But that's our bread & butter. Jimmy is not an off corner, he's built to play press with his size, his long arms, how strong he is and his lack of experience/instincts to excel in zone or in off coverage. You sprinkle in some off coverages to balance it out a little here and there to help your safeties a little maybe, but anything more than that is a waste of talent and skill. Look, if we had Earl Thomas back there or a prime Ed Reed we definitely would have rarely played off coverage, and even then it would have not been played because our corners excel in off coverage but because we have to balance things out and keep offenses on their toes.

[codizzle]

Wow.. Making this sound a lot harder than it really is

[jazz1988]

That applies to every team out there...

 

 

How does that make sense what you just said? Our best corner is built for press coverage and yet you say we're not built for press coverage at all? You have any numbers to back up those claims? % Wise how do we stack up against the rest in the NFL? And don't you think it had anything to do with us not having a decent safety back there to cover deep? That we were forced to play off a lot because of that and not because Jimmy is so great at it? Our safeties were horrible covering deep, we got beat like a drum with deep balls, that's why we played off, not because Jimmy excels in off coverage. He doesn't. If he did and if we played it so often he'd have around 10 interceptions by now. He's the furthest thing from a good off corner. Guys like that need tremendous instincts & awareness, a lot of experience and a natural feel for routes and being able to read QB's. That's not what Jimmy does.

 

And you just basically pointed out the obvious. Jimmy is a press specialist. What exactly is the point of not playing press with a guy like that? Yes, we play off here and there like everybody else in the NFL (mainly because we had to, in my opinion), we don't just play ONE coverage 100% of the time. But that's our bread & butter. Jimmy is not an off corner, he's built to play press with his size, his long arms, how strong he is and his lack of experience/instincts to excel in zone or in off coverage. You sprinkle in some off coverages to balance it out a little here and there to help your safeties a little maybe, but anything more than that is a waste of talent and skill. Look, if we had Earl Thomas back there or a prime Ed Reed we definitely would have rarely played off coverage, and even then it would have not been played because our corners excel in off coverage but because we have to balance things out and keep offenses on their toes.

 

Our best corner may be bulit for press man coverage  but that doesn't mean all the rest of our cornerbacks are. How does one cornerback determine all ?. I don't consider Ladarius Webb as a press man cornerback but can he be a effective press man cornerback from time to time ? Yeah but he really excels in off man coverage and zone coverage.

 

I really don't believe we completely  use zone/off man coverage just because we don't have  a solid free safety. It's really something we like to overall use and we like to be versatile . I think Jimmy Smith skills in  off man coverage  looked very much improved last year. I can really tell he's been working on his game to be more than just a press man cover cornerback but does that mean he  doesn't excel in press man ? No .

[Alexir]

What do you think Webb plays?

 

Well as you replied to my original post where I clearly stated that WEBB was OUR SLOT GUY, I think you know what I think...Im just trying to find your point but like everyone else, struggling to find out what you are trying to get at...2 WR set, Webb plays outside. 3 wide sets, Webb could play either Slot or outside and Flowers vice versa.....

[BmoreBird22]

Well as you replied to my original post where I clearly stated that WEBB was OUR SLOT GUY, I think you know what I think...Im just trying to find your point but like everyone else, struggling to find out what you are trying to get at...2 WR set, Webb plays outside. 3 wide sets, Webb could play either Slot or outside and Flowers vice versa.....

Flowers would be an outside nickelback

[BmoreBird22]

That applies to every team out there...

 

 

How does that make sense what you just said? Our best corner is built for press coverage and yet you say we're not built for press coverage at all? You have any numbers to back up those claims? % Wise how do we stack up against the rest in the NFL? And don't you think it had anything to do with us not having a decent safety back there to cover deep? That we were forced to play off a lot because of that and not because Jimmy is so great at it? Our safeties were horrible covering deep, we got beat like a drum with deep balls, that's why we played off, not because Jimmy excels in off coverage. He doesn't. If he did and if we played it so often he'd have around 10 interceptions by now. He's the furthest thing from a good off corner. Guys like that need tremendous instincts & awareness, a lot of experience and a natural feel for routes and being able to read QB's. That's not what Jimmy does.

 

And you just basically pointed out the obvious. Jimmy is a press specialist. What exactly is the point of not playing press with a guy like that? Yes, we play off here and there like everybody else in the NFL (mainly because we had to, in my opinion), we don't just play ONE coverage 100% of the time. But that's our bread & butter. Jimmy is not an off corner, he's built to play press with his size, his long arms, how strong he is and his lack of experience/instincts to excel in zone or in off coverage. You sprinkle in some off coverages to balance it out a little here and there to help your safeties a little maybe, but anything more than that is a waste of talent and skill. Look, if we had Earl Thomas back there or a prime Ed Reed we definitely would have rarely played off coverage, and even then it would have not been played because our corners excel in off coverage but because we have to balance things out and keep offenses on their toes.

I'm on mobile so I can't shorten this post, but off man coverage on probably the most popular in the NFL

[CapoRocky]

The main article I read about Flowers getting cut named potential landing spots for him and the Ravens weren't one of them.  I think that he would be a long-shot at best.  The injury bug would definitely be a factor in determining how we use our remaining cap money.

[MTRavensFan]

The main article I read about Flowers getting cut named potential landing spots for him and the Ravens weren't one of them.  I think that he would be a long-shot at best.  The injury bug would definitely be a factor in determining how we use our remaining cap money.

 

I agree.

After what happened with Pitta last year, I don't see us spending any of our cap until well into training camp.