Where do you stand on Dean Pees as our DC and why?

[CalvinSmoke]

Pees has done well with average athletes, there hasn't been a lot of speed in our front 7 or secondary. Let's see how we look this time around

[jdynamite]

Pees is a bit of a polarizinI have defdended Pees succeeg figure with Ravens fans.  He's had 2 seasons as DC, helps win a Super Bowl by duct taping a raged-tag, injured defense (Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Webb) together and then follows up 2013 with a dud after losing Lewis and Reed.  Some have said he's worse that Greg Mattison and some of the defensivce stats indicate that.  However, Pees is a product of New England and as such does not think like a typical AFC North coach.  Under Belichick's system he learned to be practical, pragmatic and opportunististic.  He focuses on reducing red zone scores, 3rd down conversion and takeaways as opposed to yardage-stingy top 5 ranked defenses.

 

I understand he not Rex Ryan or Chuck pagano.  It is my belief he was brought in to imitate somewhat of the Patriots do to free up cap space for Joe and other playmakers especially in light of the fact that the 19 teams in the NFL spend more money of defense by average salary:

In the top 32 averages salaries the Ravens have only 1 player (Ngata).

In the top 50 they have only 2 (Webb)

In the top 100 they have only 3 (Sizzle)

In the top 150 they have only 4 (Dumervil)

In the top 200 they have only 5 (D. Smith)

 

The Ravens aren't spending big money overall on defense, and the Ravens don't have many of the 200 most valuable defenders.  Yet we expect it to be a top 5 defense.

 

What is YOUR take on Pees performance?  Should he be on the hot seat for last year's defense or given a pass because it was the first year without the on field vision of Lewis and Reed?

 

First things first, while the not having many of 200 most valuable defenses looks good going forward, that list dramatically changed when Suggs signed his extension. Suggs, Ngata, Webb were among our highest contracts last season, and if I remember correctly Ngata and Suggs both counted more against cap than Flacco last season, Historically speaking we have never really paid offensive players. Lets not forget Boldin's 6M salary was essentially split up to pay for various defensive pieces. We also tried to restock the defense with talent along the way with draft picks that either didn't pan out for various reasons(Kindle, Cody) or took too long to develop and played out their rookie contract (Kruger basically had 1 good year where he was a pass rush specialist and then got paid.  Art Jones always showed great promise but didn't put it all together until his contract year also. If the salary cap hadn't been stagnant for 2 years, maybe we could have afforded to extend one of those guys.

 

And on Pees and Belicheck System, the Patriots defense of the last 6 r 7 years is not one to model itself on in fact its been a defense that Belicheck has highly criticized but could tolerate due to Tom Brady and the offense masking their deficiencies and the defense making the occasional big stop in critical situations.  Belicheck's defenses have always been aggressive yet complex, going back to the Giants, Browns and the Patriot title years. Looking at the Patriots defense decline there are a few very important factors that contributed to their rapid decline: A.Thomas signed to big deal but did very little for them, Veterans continuing to age,decline, or retire, Vrabel,  Bruscki, Harrison, Seau, and not extending Seymour, which gave that defensive front flexibility. They drafted young guys to fill defensive voids most of them just didn't meet expectations, they didn't convert their system into a flexible bend but don't break system. They just lacked talent and Brady and the offense often controlled games early and often. 

[jdynamite]

Mattison was clueless.  He had a top 2 defense and put up top 10 stats.  He caused a 3 game slide trying to switch back to a 4-3.  He couldn't manage the hybrid scheme Rex put in place.  Mattison also had better talent around him too than Pees. 

 

The metrics for success have changed.  Who cares about the yardage or another score per game if you're tighting down on the red zone, the 3rd down conversions, and increasing take aways?  Let the Steelers keep their stingy, old-school defense.  Its about the W's, not the stats.  As long as it does enough to let the offense win.  That's what got the Patriots to the Super Bowl 5 times in 11 years.

 

...and that's something that Pees hasn 't had.  He got Lewis and Reed but late in their careers.  Suggs and Webb coming off severe injuries.  Then in 2013 Reed and Lewis are out and their is a leadership void.  You can't underestimate the power that Lewis brought to that lockerroom especially for that SB run.  Pure emotional drive.  They didn't have that after he left and it showed at times.  Pees may find his firey on-field and lockerroom leader yet.  Canty and D. Smith reportedly are mentors and motivators.  Suggs is more of a "swagger" guy.

 

However, as long as they have Flacco's contract ballooning over the next few years, they'll need to continue to pinch pennies on defense the way New England did after giving Brady a mega-deal.  Pees understands that philopsophy and will money-ball that defense.  I don't ever think we get back to the ridiculous top defense we've grown accustomed to.  We're going to see something like New England - pragmatic, opportunistic, smartly called - and doing just enough to let the offense win.

 

I wouldn't think of the defense as being bad lately, it's different and reflects the teams overall philosophy moving forward.

 

For me Pees got a mulligan on year one, due to first year as DC and various injuries. Suggs missed the first 6 games then played partially hurt. However even before Ray and Webb went down our run D was atrocious including giving up a Raven record rushing yards versus the Cowgirls on my Bday when Ray and Webb both got hurt in. I felt like towards the end of the season the defense had become much more respectable even before the Superbowl run.

 

He did nice last year like I said with the exception of some late half collapses.

 

BTW , Patriots offense got the Patriots to their last 2 Superbowls that they did not win. The other 3 Superbowls were more defensive minded teams as Brady began to mature more and more as a passer. The Patriots defense were not pushovers for the entire Belicheck tenure its pretty much just the last 4 or 5 seasons.

[RaineV1]

To me, Pees is a pretty solid DC. Probably top ten. I like how he stressed fundemtally sound play over athletics. Wanting everyone to stay in their place, perform the role they're supposed to on that play, don't over pursue, and don't miss the tackle. He is a little too conservative at times, but If Brooks works out as a rangy free safety and Smith continues to show that he can shut down his side, Pees might be willing to take more chances in the future. The only way I'd replace him is if the team truly believed that other person could be among the best of the best DCs in the league.

[ravensnick]

For me Pees got a mulligan on year one, due to first year as DC and various injuries. Suggs missed the first 6 games then played partially hurt. However even before Ray and Webb went down our run D was atrocious including giving up a Raven record rushing yards versus the Cowgirls on my Bday when Ray and Webb both got hurt in. I felt like towards the end of the season the defense had become much more respectable even before the Superbowl run.

 

He did nice last year like I said with the exception of some late half collapses.

 

BTW , Patriots offense got the Patriots to their last 2 Superbowls that they did not win. The other 3 Superbowls were more defensive minded teams as Brady began to mature more and more as a passer. The Patriots defense were not pushovers for the entire Belicheck tenure its pretty much just the last 4 or 5 seasons.

They got a top 5 defense now (on paper). Scary to think what they can do if Gronk stays healthy and another WR emerges.

[JetLife94]

Solid defensive coordinator. I think that describes him best. Would I hire Wade Phillips over him? Yes.

Unless he wanted to take a break from coaching, I'm amazed no one has taken him yet. I'd love to have him on the staff.

[Bltravens]

Not sure but i do know Elam was much better suited to play FS then Digg. I think we'll see plenty of Elam around the LOS this season. I hope we see both Jimmy and Webb shadow guys this year. I like the fact that both Elam and Brooks can play FS and SS, even matching up with guys in the slot or TEs.

I think Pees will definitely get creative this year.

Ya I think that obviously a huge part of it.  Just when you see the impact Elam had on that game, against a team with a premier WR in Megatron, I don't know why you don't try it again against other teams.  Unless a team has a burner you're worried about, Elam's contribution in that Lions' game was huge.

Just from my own point of view, I'm a huge proponent of putting guys in the best place for them to succeed and while that may not have been FS for Ihedigbo, I think Elam's play around the LOS would have done more for the team than him being slightly better in CF than Ihedigbo.

[Inqui]

Ya I think that obviously a huge part of it.  Just when you see the impact Elam had on that game, against a team with a premier WR in Megatron, I don't know why you don't try it again against other teams.  Unless a team has a burner you're worried about, Elam's contribution in that Lions' game was huge.

Just from my own point of view, I'm a huge proponent of putting guys in the best place for them to succeed and while that may not have been FS for Ihedigbo, I think Elam's play around the LOS would have done more for the team than him being slightly better in CF than Ihedigbo.

I think a better way of looking at it is to take the combination. So instead of Ihedigbo or Elam at SS, it was about the pairing of Digs at SS and Elam at FS, or Elam at SS and Digs (and someone like Omar Brown) at FS.

[Guest RBates]

Pees is a very boring D Coordinator.  He is as plain jane as it gets. 

He is average at best.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Pees is an enigma to me. It's the first time that I can remember us not having truly transcendent talent on defense. So many variables took place at the same time as the decline of our defense that it's really tough to say whether it's Pees, aging core players, loss of long-term leadership, too much turnover, or injuries.

TBD. Can't say Pees has necessarily gotten the most out of a talentless unit or out-performed expectations (other than in short stretches) but he hasn't gotten nothing out of a vastly talented roster or fallen far short of expectations (other than in short stretches).

It's maddeningly mundane. Nothing overtly negative but really nothing to hang the hat on either.

[Ravensfan23]

Pees is an enigma to me. It's the first time that I can remember us not having truly transcendent talent on defense. So many variables took place at the same time as the decline of our defense that it's really tough to say whether it's Pees, aging core players, loss of long-term leadership, too much turnover, or injuries.

TBD. Can't say Pees has necessarily gotten the most out of a talentless unit or out-performed expectations (other than in short stretches) but he hasn't gotten nothing out of a vastly talented roster or fallen far short of expectations (other than in short stretches).

It's maddeningly mundane. Nothing overtly negative but really nothing to hang the hat on either.

I feel great players make coaches look good, but by the same coin great coaching makes above average laughed players look even better. I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I think we've had success on both sides of the fence. Rex was a great DC imo. He found ways to get the best out of guys like AD and Bart when they probably otherwise would've had a shot. Imo Marvin was just a good DC who had great talent around him and didn't waste it. Those two would be the best of both examples and i feel Pees falls in the middle.

I think Pees is a heck of a teacher and coach. Given great talent like i think we've added over the last 2 drafts, he could look like a great coach and probably get offered a HC position some where. Pees is more of a line up and beat your man type of coach, who since being in Baltimore has started to adjust his style. I think he now has the players to blend his more bend but don't break style in with an aggressive attacking style. I expect to see more blitzing from Art and CJ. With a group of interchangeable safeties now, i expect to see those guys play around the LOS a lot more. With Webby back to being 100% and Jimmy coming into his own as a top flight CB, i expect Pees to be more comfortable taken chances up front with the rush. With the athletic dline we now have, i hope to see a lot more twist, stunts and games up front.

[BmoreBird22]

Pees is a very boring D Coordinator.  He is as plain jane as it gets. 

He is average at best.

He actually has some pretty good and complex coverage schemes, if I'm not mistaken, but those are harder to recognize and not as exciting as an exotic blitz, so fans will see him as bland and not creative

[Tenacious Faulker]

I feel great players make coaches look good, but by the same coin great coaching makes above average laughed players look even better. I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I think we've had success on both sides of the fence. Rex was a great DC imo. He found ways to get the best out of guys like AD and Bart when they probably otherwise would've had a shot. Imo Marvin was just a good DC who had great talent around him and didn't waste it. Those two would be the best of both examples and i feel Pees falls in the middle.

I think Pees is a heck of a teacher and coach. Given great talent like i think we've added over the last 2 drafts, he could look like a great coach and probably get offered a HC position some where. Pees is more of a line up and beat your man type of coach, who since being in Baltimore has started to adjust his style. I think he now has the players to blend his more bend but don't break style in with an aggressive attacking style. I expect to see more blitzing from Art and CJ. With a group of interchangeable safeties now, i expect to see those guys play around the LOS a lot more. With Webby back to being 100% and Jimmy coming into his own as a top flight CB, i expect Pees to be more comfortable taken chances up front with the rush. With the athletic dline we now have, i hope to see a lot more twist, stunts and games up front.

Maybe that's the crux of the matter.  Rex was a good DC and had the talent around him to make him great because he could bum rush the QB practically every play and get away with it because having 5 AP All Stars can adjust to make the play if it starts to break down.  Pees on the other hand has subtly and complexity.  His understanding of the X's and O's of the game make ordinary role players looks like stars and he can do just enough to let the offense win.

 

Injuries plagued Pees last season and it was ugly at times especially ion the 4th quarters.  Ironically, when Rex had his bad moments it was in the 4th quarter too as his blitzing packages got torched for the big plays at inopportune times to lose the game.

[DomMcRaven]

Time to "wake" this thread up again lol.

[BMORE21]

We need to hire Wade Phillips to the defensive staff immediately

[Ravensuperfan1]

The Patriots defense hasn't been the same since Pees left. I like him as our Coordinator. He's one of the smarter coordinators in the game. A lot of the big yards given up was due to a rookie SS playing FS, Webb recovering from his knee injury, and Ngata playing non motivated for most of the season. I can only remember 1 time I cursed him out through the TV screen and that was the 4th down play against Miami. Other then that he's been very solid.

 

meh   

 

 Patriots have't been the same since Spygate 

[SecretAgentMan]

We need to hire Wade Phillips to the defensive staff immediately

You know. I'd get behind that. Phillips is pretty good and is aggressive. Might as well become the Bmore texans

[kassaiscool]

I don't feel like Pees is a big motivator. The D seems to have no edge. Under Pagano, Rex and some others I felt like the D was pissed off about the other team getting a first down let alone a TD. With this defense I get the feeling they don't mind offenses moving the ball on them, only if they can keep them out the endzone. The best defenses throughtout history defend every yard and make it diffcult every play. I don't have that feeling with the Ravens D these past few years even though they have solid rankings.

[sflegend89]

Pees is very vanilla as far as blitz schemes and line stunts go, I would say he's average compared to the 31 other DC's in the league. For some teams that's good enough but to me personally he's not up to Ravens standards. Maybe we're spoiled from the years under Rex and Pags but this is the Baltimore Ravens we're talking about after all, when anyone thinks about our team the first thing that comes to mind is great defenses and it should stay that way.

 

Strictly from a technique and teaching stand point I like Pees, he knows what he's talking about and he's good at getting players to do their job and play within the scheme. Where he falls short is from a motivation stand point and I think unfortunately for us that's a lot more important for a DC than an OC. It's something that Rex and Pags had in spades and you can honestly see how it's hurt our defense since they left. We aren't as physical as we used to be, we don't play with the same swagger, front 7 are sitting back and letting the play come to them instead of firing off the ball and getting after guys.

 

At the end of the day I just don't feel like Pees has his guys buying in 100%, our defense needs to get their swagger back.

[sflegend89]

You know. I'd get behind that. Phillips is pretty good and is aggressive. Might as well become the Bmore texans

 

I would be happy if he was on the defensive staff. I never thought Wade fit as a HC, he's always been so much better as a coordinator where he can put all his focus on the defense and has the time to teach individually. Phillips is probably one of the best guys in the NFL as far as a 1 on 1 teacher on that side of the ball. Kind of similar to Pees though in the motivation department, not exactly the rah rah high energy type.

 

I really want another DC cut from the same cloth as Rex and Pagano, that's the type of coach that can get the defense to play Ravens football. I was hoping Rex would get canned from NYJ after last season so he could come back to Baltimore but it was not to be. Also too bad Pettine got the HC gig in Cleveland, he's a guy that's fits the bill perfectly for us as a DC but I suppose he wanted to move up and be a HC so it didn't really matter where he ended up.

[daylt8dollashort]

I've never like Pees as a DC. seems as though like Spagunolo they are here more so because of relationships with the Harbaugh FAMILY and not because of their expertise. Vic Fangio was an asst DC here but this regime let him get away to SF. Raheem Morris would have looked better with these cornerbacks then Spags, and then they're trying to force players like Stewart and 6 games suspended Hill as players that could help. Stewart has not looked well in pre-season games and communication between he and Elam at times result in big plays down the middle. Brooks is still a rookie and what I don't understand is why Omar Brown is not getting more run. I don't want to hear about OTA's and other camps where they were in shorts. Brown has been here for 3 years only seeing action in late pre-season games and the last games of the season. How do you evaluate players like that? but yet they keep re-signing him to one year deals. Far too much Pees seems content to play off coverage. He's just not aggressive as Rex, nor Marvin nor Pagano. And if for some reason the team starts off slow because of a lack of pass rush or run defense allowing teams to gash them, what are they going to do?

[The Raven]

I've never like Pees as a DC. seems as though like Spagunolo they are here more so because of relationships with the Harbaugh FAMILY and not because of their expertise. Vic Fangio was an asst DC here but this regime let him get away to SF. Raheem Morris would have looked better with these cornerbacks then Spags, and then they're trying to force players like Stewart and 6 games suspended Hill as players that could help. Stewart has not looked well in pre-season games and communication between he and Elam at times result in big plays down the middle. Brooks is still a rookie and what I don't understand is why Omar Brown is not getting more run. I don't want to hear about OTA's and other camps where they were in shorts. Brown has been here for 3 years only seeing action in late pre-season games and the last games of the season. How do you evaluate players like that? but yet they keep re-signing him to one year deals. Far too much Pees seems content to play off coverage. He's just not aggressive as Rex, nor Marvin nor Pagano. And if for some reason the team starts off slow because of a lack of pass rush or run defense allowing teams to gash them, what are they going to do?

 

1. Pees' defense just got three sacks and a pick against the Redskins in the first half alone. The Redskin starters were held to just 40 yards of offense in a half.

 

2. Spags is a good coach. That's a fact Jack. Pees has a solid track record too. Btw, most coaches hire coaches they know. There's this thing called "networking."

 

3. Omar Brown has looked terrible this preseason, and that's why he's not getting more play time.

 

4. Pees has played mostly press man this preseason if you've been paying attention.

 

5. How about we blame the guys rushing the passer for not getting a good pass rush?

[The Raven]

Repeating this for emphasis: Our defense held the Redskin starters to 40 yards of offense in the first half. We sacked Bob three times and picked him once. In just one half of football

 

Pees sucks, he's soft, yadda yadda yadda....

 

It's proven. When the players do their job, Pees' system works beautifully like it did last night.

[1/28/01]

Repeating this for emphasis: Our defense held the Redskin starters to 40 yards of offense in the first half. We sacked Bob three times and picked him once. In just one half of football

Pees sucks, he's soft, yadda yadda yadda....

It's proven. When the players do their job, Pees' system works beautifully like it did last night.

No, no and no. Its always the dude on the sideline or in the booth. NOT the fellas on the field making or not making the plays. Duh!!!

[Bltravens]

I've never like Pees as a DC. seems as though like Spagunolo they are here more so because of relationships with the Harbaugh FAMILY and not because of their expertise. Vic Fangio was an asst DC here but this regime let him get away to SF. Raheem Morris would have looked better with these cornerbacks then Spags, and then they're trying to force players like Stewart and 6 games suspended Hill as players that could help. Stewart has not looked well in pre-season games and communication between he and Elam at times result in big plays down the middle. Brooks is still a rookie and what I don't understand is why Omar Brown is not getting more run. I don't want to hear about OTA's and other camps where they were in shorts. Brown has been here for 3 years only seeing action in late pre-season games and the last games of the season. How do you evaluate players like that? but yet they keep re-signing him to one year deals. Far too much Pees seems content to play off coverage. He's just not aggressive as Rex, nor Marvin nor Pagano. And if for some reason the team starts off slow because of a lack of pass rush or run defense allowing teams to gash them, what are they going to do?

Still mad Fangio left to goto Stanford with the other Harbaugh.  Im convinced Fangio would have been hired after Rex left and would still be our DC now to this day.  He's not quite as good as Pagano, In my opinion, but he does alot of the same stuff, especially with the Dline games, that Pagano used to such great effect.

[RavensFan34950]

There's no game planning in the preseason. Harbs and Pees always put our corners in 1 on 1 battles with WR's to see what we they can do. Its been like that for as long as I can remember. It's comical how much hate Pees is getting in the preseason. But then our players play lights out for 1 game and everybody is back on the Pees bandwagon LOL. He knows how to call a good defensive game, Its the players who determines weather the play works or not. Give the man a beak.

[ravens533]

Pees and the defense did an excellent job last night. And I thought that our secondary did really well considering who we had left to play. I was never on the Pees has to go bandwagon and I will not be this season either. The defense may not be flashy but they DO get the job done. And it should be a better year for getting off the field on 3rd downs since we have more quality in our front 7 rotating than we have had in a while. Mosely will get better this year and then we will have two awesome middle linebackers.

[ravensfan160]

I don't say this to be funny or take a jab at Pees but the best part about him is we won't have to worry about replacing our DC every couple years. That gets old after awhile.

[edthehead]

Ol' Danny boy gets allot of love here,probably to much  for my liken, I have always said he is good NOT above average just average,the many excuses you all make for his lack luster stats,past DC would have done allot more with less,they took their strengths and put them in position to make a play,they did not say play this position and go make that play,even though you can not tackle,or know the schemes ,,, it is kinda like the zone block, if they players do not match that style it will not work, SO either way you would have to put it on DANNY BOY,either he do not have the correct players for what he is doing or he lacks the intellect to implement schemes,,,, you all are very smart so why do this DC get the love he do not deserve,,,,,,,,,,