Where do you stand on Dean Pees as our DC and why?

[Ravenseconbeast]

I thought our defense last year has been the most impressive since pees got to our organization.

I think Pees has a great ability to utilize players ability. He put in a system that caters to teamwork in defense, instead of making superstars. Everyone has a shot to get in the field and have a role, so that when next year comes around you have players that can fill in and be effective when someone goes down.

I expect few of our year2 role players to really shine this year. Maybe find Tyson, John & Brandon to come out and be the next 'Art Jones'

[Bltravens]

Pees is about as good as you're going to get in this league right now.  There's not too many great DCs right now that last long term.  A new guy will go to a new team, switch things up for a year and then once the shock value is gone the defense returns to what it normally was/is.  Pees is what he is, a good, not great DC.  I'm ok with that until we can breed another "mad scientist" of types.

One thing Pagano did that can't be overstated was often and how well timed our Dline movements were executed.  We played Dline games inside the actual football game to setup Olineman so it wasn't just a matter of a guy beating another guy, but he found ways to have 4 guys or 5 guys confuse 5 offensive lineman.  Look at how many of Suggs' sacks that year were off a stunt and he's just untouched.

[Stephenjr]

I miss the days of organized chaos.

[bMore Heathen]

Pees is about as good as you're going to get in this league right now.  There's not too many great DCs right now that last long term.  A new guy will go to a new team, switch things up for a year and then once the shock value is gone the defense returns to what it normally was/is.  Pees is what he is, a good, not great DC.  I'm ok with that until we can breed another "mad scientist" of types.

We will find out this year. Our next "mad scientist" was Terryl Austin IMO, and he will get his shot with the Lions this year. Wish we could have held on to him. He was defiantly a strength on our coaching staff and his contributions to our CBs was huge. Jimmy, Corey, and even Carry played unbelievable under Austin and Pagano. I know Carry was hated on these boards, but he was actually a really good corner. A big part of him getting beat from time to time was more related to Ed Reed guessing and not being where he was supposed to be.

[flynismo]

Where do I stand on Pees? Usually his throat

[Tenacious Faulker]

I miss the days of organized chaos.

Unfortunately Pees doesn'tg have the same caliber of players Rex did with Lewis, Reed, Thomas, and McAlister on defense.  I think Rex's organized chaos with the 2014 roster would just be chaos.

 

I don't like his style - his is way too passive overall.

 

Let me put it this way - we just gave him our top 3 picks last season and our top 3 picks this season plus FA additions last year in Smith and Dumerville.

 

So yeah, I expect a Top 5 defense this season. I expected better than out of the Top 10 last season.

 

Anything out of the Top 8 though means he has failed IMO.

I can understand disliking the style.  Bend-don;t-break is very different from our original smashmouth style.  But it works.  It worked well enough for a Super Bowl run and not so well in 2013 without Lewis' player leadership presence on field.  That may be the one thing that Pees is lacking is a that firely personality that Pagano and Rex have.  However, I think that Suggs, Canty and D.Smith are all now assuming various veteran leaderrship roles and building a new identity without Lewis and Reed.

[52520Andrew]

Yeah not a fan of the style but I think he is a good DC overall, we were usually in the right situations on defense. Now we just have to hope that Kubiak puts our offense in the right situations lol

[TDubbs]

Last season our offense had horrible Time of Possession. Far too many times we went 3 and out in the blink of an eye. I remember many games where the defense kept the score pretty low but got gassed in the 2nd half. Kubiaks offense is built to dominate time of possession. It will be interesting to see how Pees can run the defense when the players are a little more fresh. 

[BirdWatcher]

Last season our offense had horrible Time of Possession.

That isn't true. The TOP was nearly even for the year, and that includes our defense giving up several long 4th quarter drives.

[BmoreBird22]

Without reading all of the posts because I'm far too lazy, the gassed excuse is a bad one. If you look at the individual games and not just the stats presented by ESPN, the Ravens usually led in TOP. I remember the Steelers game that the Ravens lost by a FG. The Ravens led by like 4 or 5 minutes in TOP, but the defense let up a seven minute drive. They led against the Browns when they allowed a final drive by Campbell. They actually led against the Packers until the final Packers drive. It's an awful excuse.

Now, if you said it's demoralizing for the offense to not put up points after the defense makes stops, I'd buy that a little more, but they weren't gassed. Stop that argument right there.

Now, as far as Pees goes, he's never been a coordinator that limits yardage, but like you said, he limits third downs, points, and gets takeaways. I'd love to see him be more aggressive, but if you look at what he's had to work with, he's had lots of young guys and injuries. He hasn't exactly had a defense that was experienced enough or had enough pieces to get creative with. This year, the defense has been together for a year and has the chemistry. This year he'll likely be able to dial up some more creative packages.

You also have to consider that all Pees can do is call the play. He cannot make sure the player makes the tackle or gets that interception. He may be conservative, but he's usually got a fairly good play called, but lack of execution is a big problem. I blame that on the CBA.

[BmoreBird22]

That isn't true. The TOP was nearly even for the year, and that includes our defense giving up several long 4th quarter drives.

I touched on it, but the Ravens usually led by at least five minutes in several games before giving up long, long drives in games such as Cleveland, Green Bay, and the Steelers. People look at that ESPN stat, but that doesn't tell the whole story

[BmoreBird22]

Forgot to mention this and I hope I can find the source, but the Ravens were a top 10 (maybe top 5, can't remember) defense in the first half. They were outstanding.

Coming out of half, they dropped into the middle of the pack, and I don't think the defense is getting gassed after a 15 minute break. In the fourth, they were one of the absolute worst.

I'm not sure if that's other teams making better adjustments or the Ravens not making enough, but that actually does worry me

[The Raven]

I like Dean Pees because if the players do the little things right you win easy. It's ALL about the little things. Get pressure, pursue, make tackles, and keep the play in front of you. If you do that in a Pees defense, you win. Simple as that.

 

The problem that most people don't see is that our players suck in pursuit and, overall, they suck at making tackles. The thing people just don't understand is that when you do the little things wrong, the defense falls apart. Since Pees' defense is so reliant on the little things, it simply fails when the players fail.

 

The only downside is that it relies too much on getting pressure with four. But the coverage schemes are so complicated, well-disguised, and intricate that you don't even need the pressure all the time. 

 

EDIT: I think the complaints about "style" are unfounded. Our philosophy in 2000 was actually quite similar to what Pees' philosophy is. Admittedly, I haven't seen every game from that season, but what I saw showed that we relied on a four man rush, not a lot of blitzes, and we used a good bit of zone shells. Pees' philosophy and the 2000 philosophy are very very similar. The difference is the players. Our current lineup lacks the toughness that the 2000 guys had.

[TDubbs]

That isn't true. The TOP was nearly even for the year, and that includes our defense giving up several long 4th quarter drives.

 

Fair enough. I'm going off of memory of what I saw this year. We certainly did have a lot of 3 and outs though that put our defense right back out there. My main point was a Kubiak offense generally ranks pretty highly in TOP. In 2012 Houston was #1 and in 2013 they were still top 10. With increased TOP on offense, Pees' defense surely will improve. 

[jdynamite]

Pees just has to sure up late half and late game situations. Whether it be a form of prevent defense or defensive collapses we seemed to give up too many points late in halves. ( but also there were plenty of times the offense failed to give the defense a couple rest with a few first downs. ).

Statistically these 2 years have been bad. Mattison had a top 10 stats defense but he just frustrated me so much with the conservative approach and predictable blitzes.

[jdynamite]

I like Dean Pees because if the players do the little things right you win easy. It's ALL about the little things. Get pressure, pursue, make tackles, and keep the play in front of you. If you do that in a Pees defense, you win. Simple as that.

The problem that most people don't see is that our players suck in pursuit and, overall, they suck at making tackles. The thing people just don't understand is that when you do the little things wrong, the defense falls apart. Since Pees' defense is so reliant on the little things, it simply fails when the players fail.

The only downside is that it relies too much on getting pressure with four. But the coverage schemes are so complicated, well-disguised, and intricate that you don't even need the pressure all the time.

EDIT: I think the complaints about "style" are unfounded. Our philosophy in 2000 was actually quite similar to what Pees' philosophy is. Admittedly, I haven't seen every game from that season, but what I saw showed that we relied on a four man rush, not a lot of blitzes, and we used a good bit of zone shells. Pees' philosophy and the 2000 philosophy are very very similar. The difference is the players. Our current lineup lacks the toughness that the 2000 guys had.

Current NFL is not like 2000 however. In 2000 we ran a predominantly 4-3. Had 2 big hogs Goose and Adams in middle to take on blockers keep Lineman off of Ray Lewis to shut down Run first. While McCrary Burnett played the edges and Boulware was mostly a pass rusher but was solid in coverage wen asked to do so. Sharper was really good in coverage.

Starks and Mcallister were great in man coverage.

Boulware played with his hand on ground a lot too.

We had 3 guys that could beat their men for sacks at any given time.

[Static]

Way too early to tell or call for Peas head. Lets see what he does this year with some talent.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Pees just has to sure up late half and late game situations. Whether it be a form of prevent defense or defensive collapses we seemed to give up too many points late in halves. ( but also there were plenty of times the offense failed to give the defense a couple rest with a few first downs. ).

Statistically these 2 years have been bad. Mattison had a top 10 stats defense but he just frustrated me so much with the conservative approach and predictable blitzes.

Mattison was clueless.  He had a top 2 defense and put up top 10 stats.  He caused a 3 game slide trying to switch back to a 4-3.  He couldn't manage the hybrid scheme Rex put in place.  Mattison also had better talent around him too than Pees. 

 

The metrics for success have changed.  Who cares about the yardage or another score per game if you're tighting down on the red zone, the 3rd down conversions, and increasing take aways?  Let the Steelers keep their stingy, old-school defense.  Its about the W's, not the stats.  As long as it does enough to let the offense win.  That's what got the Patriots to the Super Bowl 5 times in 11 years.

 

Current NFL is not like 2000 however. In 2000 we ran a predominantly 4-3. Had 2 big hogs Goose and Adams in middle to take on blockers keep Lineman off of Ray Lewis to shut down Run first. While McCrary Burnett played the edges and Boulware was mostly a pass rusher but was solid in coverage wen asked to do so. Sharper was really good in coverage.

Starks and Mcallister were great in man coverage.

Boulware played with his hand on ground a lot too.

We had 3 guys that could beat their men for sacks at any given time.

...and that's something that Pees hasn 't had.  He got Lewis and Reed but late in their careers.  Suggs and Webb coming off severe injuries.  Then in 2013 Reed and Lewis are out and their is a leadership void.  You can't underestimate the power that Lewis brought to that lockerroom especially for that SB run.  Pure emotional drive.  They didn't have that after he left and it showed at times.  Pees may find his firey on-field and lockerroom leader yet.  Canty and D. Smith reportedly are mentors and motivators.  Suggs is more of a "swagger" guy.

 

However, as long as they have Flacco's contract ballooning over the next few years, they'll need to continue to pinch pennies on defense the way New England did after giving Brady a mega-deal.  Pees understands that philopsophy and will money-ball that defense.  I don't ever think we get back to the ridiculous top defense we've grown accustomed to.  We're going to see something like New England - pragmatic, opportunistic, smartly called - and doing just enough to let the offense win.

 

I wouldn't think of the defense as being bad lately, it's different and reflects the teams overall philosophy moving forward.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

 

The Ravens aren't spending big money overall on defense, and the Ravens don't have many of the 200 most valuable defenders.  Yet we expect it to be a top 5 defense.

 

 

Where are you getting that from?According to spotrac we ranked third last year in cap spaced used on defense.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/2013/defense/

 

We used $42,593,129 on offense and $55,511,815 of cap space on defense in 2013 and used our first three draft picks on defense.That's why we expected the defense to be somewhere near the top 5.We also used all of our free agent money on defensive players last year.

[display name]

Way too early to tell or call for Peas head. Lets see what he does this year with some talent.

He's been our DC coordinator for 2 seasons now-I think that's enough time to start having a serious discussion about him.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

As far as Dean Peas goes,I think he's like a 40 degree day.Nobody cares about a 40 degree day.Nobody remembers a 40 degree day and he's giving us WAY too many 40 degree day's!!

[display name]

Pees is like Greg Mattison. Similar in style (as previously mentioned), neither one was so crappy that he had to be fired right away, but at the same time the fans were longing for the coordinator before him who left to get a head coaching job. And we also know that there are plenty of better guys around the league.

[Ozzsome]

Pees is a bit of a polarizinI have defdended Pees succeeg figure with Ravens fans.  He's had 2 seasons as DC, helps win a Super Bowl by duct taping a raged-tag, injured defense (Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Webb) together and then follows up 2013 with a dud after losing Lewis and Reed.  Some have said he's worse that Greg Mattison and some of the defensivce stats indicate that.  However, Pees is a product of New England and as such does not think like a typical AFC North coach.  Under Belichick's system he learned to be practical, pragmatic and opportunististic.  He focuses on reducing red zone scores, 3rd down conversion and takeaways as opposed to yardage-stingy top 5 ranked defenses.

 

I understand he not Rex Ryan or Chuck pagano.  It is my belief he was brought in to imitate somewhat of the Patriots do to free up cap space for Joe and other playmakers especially in light of the fact that the 19 teams in the NFL spend more money of defense by average salary:

In the top 32 averages salaries the Ravens have only 1 player (Ngata).

In the top 50 they have only 2 (Webb)

In the top 100 they have only 3 (Sizzle)

In the top 150 they have only 4 (Dumervil)

In the top 200 they have only 5 (D. Smith)

 

The Ravens aren't spending big money overall on defense, and the Ravens don't have many of the 200 most valuable defenders.  Yet we expect it to be a top 5 defense.

 

What is YOUR take on Pees performance?  Should he be on the hot seat for last year's defense or given a pass because it was the first year without the on field vision of Lewis and Reed?

 

I think he has done a good enough job, but personally I love to watch a fast agressive head hunting defense, a Ryan/Pagano defense was great to watch. So personally I don't like him as much because of his playing style but he has done a good enough job to earn a position in this league

[Tank 92]

I touched on it, but the Ravens usually led by at least five minutes in several games before giving up long, long drives in games such as Cleveland, Green Bay, and the Steelers. People look at that ESPN stat, but that doesn't tell the whole story

 

 

Even if we weren't leading, The D folded at the end of many games, especially the ones you mention.  But that's not the fault of Pees or the system, it's on the players. 

[BmoreBird22]

Even if we weren't leading, The D folded at the end of many games, especially the ones you mention.  But that's not the fault of Pees or the system, it's on the players.

I was just saying it's not on the offense, either.

It is very much the players. I have seen several missed tackles, poor reads, and just bad fundamentals at the end of tight games

[Tank 92]

I was just saying it's not on the offense, either.

It is very much the players. I have seen several missed tackles, poor reads, and just bad fundamentals at the end of tight games

 

 

Right, sorry I didn't read the whole conversation.  Our personnel, especially O line and TE left much to be desired(read sucked).

[Bltravens]

We will find out this year. Our next "mad scientist" was Terryl Austin IMO, and he will get his shot with the Lions this year. Wish we could have held on to him. He was defiantly a strength on our coaching staff and his contributions to our CBs was huge. Jimmy, Corey, and even Carry played unbelievable under Austin and Pagano. I know Carry was hated on these boards, but he was actually a really good corner. A big part of him getting beat from time to time was more related to Ed Reed guessing and not being where he was supposed to be.

I think Austin was a year or two away personally.  He was a DC in college for a single year and 3 years as a secondary coach in the NFL.  Think it may have been beneficial to him to have another year seeing how the NFL works.  But that's just me.  He was a phenomenal secondary coach.

[Ravensfan23]

I think Pees is doing a heck of a job. I tend to look big moments as an indicator. Other then the opener last year, which to do with new players then anything, Pees has done a really strong job against some of the games best. Brady has looked like trash most times, Manning has struggled, Rodgers only made a handful of plays to win the game last year and for the most part we didn't have good offense as was mentioned. I thought the Lions game was huge and not so much the performances, but more so the decisions that were made. Allowing Jimmy to play like a true shut down CB was huge imo and something we should see often this year. The decision to turn Elam lose in that game was huge.

People say Pees isn't aggressive but that's not true, he's just not overly aggressive like Rex and Chuck. I think the last 2 years was so hard to be aggressive because so many injuries and new players. This year should be much better. I think the talent on defense has been subpar the last couple years. I think Ozzie did right by drafting defense the last 2 years. Players make coaches great imo. Pees has been solid with solid players, can't wait to see him when these young guys come into their own

[Bltravens]

I think Pees is doing a heck of a job. I tend to look big moments as an indicator. Other then the opener last year, which to do with new players then anything, Pees has done a really strong job against some of the games best. Brady has looked like trash most times, Manning has struggled, Rodgers only made a handful of plays to win the game last year and for the most part we didn't have good offense as was mentioned. I thought the Lions game was huge and not so much the performances, but more so the decisions that were made. Allowing Jimmy to play like a true shut down CB was huge imo and something we should see often this year. The decision to turn Elam lose in that game was huge.

People say Pees isn't aggressive but that's not true, he's just not overly aggressive like Rex and Chuck. I think the last 2 years was so hard to be aggressive because so many injuries and new players. This year should be much better. I think the talent on defense has been subpar the last couple years. I think Ozzie did right by drafting defense the last 2 years. Players make coaches great imo. Pees has been solid with solid players, can't wait to see him when these young guys come into their own

His best game by far, which begged the question, why wasn't it done more often?  Ihedigbo made some plays but he wasn't like Elam was in that Lions game, in any game.

[Ravensfan23]

His best game by far, which begged the question, why wasn't it done more often?  Ihedigbo made some plays but he wasn't like Elam was in that Lions game, in any game.

Not sure but i do know Elam was much better suited to play FS then Digg. I think we'll see plenty of Elam around the LOS this season. I hope we see both Jimmy and Webb shadow guys this year. I like the fact that both Elam and Brooks can play FS and SS, even matching up with guys in the slot or TEs.

I think Pees will definitely get creative this year.