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Tenacious Faulker

Where do you stand on Dean Pees as our DC and why?

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Pees is a bit of a polarizinI have defdended Pees succeeg figure with Ravens fans.  He's had 2 seasons as DC, helps win a Super Bowl by duct taping a raged-tag, injured defense (Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Webb) together and then follows up 2013 with a dud after losing Lewis and Reed.  Some have said he's worse that Greg Mattison and some of the defensivce stats indicate that.  However, Pees is a product of New England and as such does not think like a typical AFC North coach.  Under Belichick's system he learned to be practical, pragmatic and opportunististic.  He focuses on reducing red zone scores, 3rd down conversion and takeaways as opposed to yardage-stingy top 5 ranked defenses.

 

I understand he not Rex Ryan or Chuck pagano.  It is my belief he was brought in to imitate somewhat of the Patriots do to free up cap space for Joe and other playmakers especially in light of the fact that the 19 teams in the NFL spend more money of defense by average salary:

In the top 32 averages salaries the Ravens have only 1 player (Ngata).
In the top 50 they have only 2 (Webb)
In the top 100 they have only 3 (Sizzle)
In the top 150 they have only 4 (Dumervil)
In the top 200 they have only 5 (D. Smith)

 

The Ravens aren't spending big money overall on defense, and the Ravens don't have many of the 200 most valuable defenders.  Yet we expect it to be a top 5 defense.

 

What is YOUR take on Pees performance?  Should he be on the hot seat for last year's defense or given a pass because it was the first year without the on field vision of Lewis and Reed?

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I'm not the biggest Pees fan. But he's not entirely at fault for the defenses struggles. The defense had it's moments last year. Suggs and Dumervil were at times, mainly the beginning of the year, VERY effective..... Only to get gassed by the end of the game due to an incompetent offense.

Yeah, not everything was his fault. If the offense sucks, the defense is gonna get tired. I guarentee you, if we has a semi decent offense who could stay on the field, the defense would've been better in the fourth.

I do think Pees is ultra conservative, but he's not entirely to blame

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I see him as a serviceable DC... I sure wish Pags didn't get that head coaching gig though!

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Pees has the experience and knowledge of the game that we need. I believe his best trait as a coach is our redzone defense, it's been great the last 2 years. I think he's done a solid job with what he's had. Ideally, I'd like the Jets to fire Rex Ryan after this season and we bring him back as the DC ... but that's a pipe dream lol. 

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I see him as a serviceable DC... I sure wish Pags didn't get that head coaching gig though!

 

I still would like to see Rex back. However, Pees did a good job, when consider what a tough spot he was put in with all the injuries he had to deal with at the begining of his carreer as the DC of the Ravens and than the rebuilding phase following the SB win. That's alot of young talent he needs to coach. I think he's one of the better DC's the Ravens had. I still miss Rex, though. :)

 

Our offense will be better this year and our defense should be better this year, so for me it's TBD....

 

I agree, our offense put alot of pressure on the defense, the way they couldn't stay on the field. If Kubiak manages to work his magic with Flacco, though, we might have a top 10 offense to complement our top 10 defense. I know, it's premature, but I can dream, right?

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Pees is a bit of a polarizinI have defdended Pees succeeg figure with Ravens fans.  He's had 2 seasons as DC, helps win a Super Bowl by duct taping a raged-tag, injured defense (Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Webb) together and then follows up 2013 with a dud after losing Lewis and Reed.  Some have said he's worse that Greg Mattison and some of the defensivce stats indicate that.  However, Pees is a product of New England and as such does not think like a typical AFC North coach.  Under Belichick's system he learned to be practical, pragmatic and opportunististic.  He focuses on reducing red zone scores, 3rd down conversion and takeaways as opposed to yardage-stingy top 5 ranked defenses.

 

I understand he not Rex Ryan or Chuck pagano.  It is my belief he was brought in to imitate somewhat of the Patriots do to free up cap space for Joe and other playmakers especially in light of the fact that the 19 teams in the NFL spend more money of defense by average salary:

In the top 32 averages salaries the Ravens have only 1 player (Ngata).

In the top 50 they have only 2 (Webb)

In the top 100 they have only 3 (Sizzle)

In the top 150 they have only 4 (Dumervil)

In the top 200 they have only 5 (D. Smith)

 

The Ravens aren't spending big money overall on defense, and the Ravens don't have many of the 200 most valuable defenders.  Yet we expect it to be a top 5 defense.

 

What is YOUR take on Pees performance?  Should he be on the hot seat for last year's defense or given a pass because it was the first year without the on field vision of Lewis and Reed?

Interesting points, and if our offence takes off in the way we've wanted it to in the past couple of years I wouldn't mind him sticking around. If you have two very aggressive styles you end up like the Houston Oilers pre-salary cap, and I do think we want our offence to be the big aggressor (yeah I know the drafts haven't really shown it, but I think it's more complex than that).

 

I think Pees is there so our defence can keep a lid on things, but that relies on the offence taking over games. And a perfect example of that working would be the SB run. We don't let our defence get torched (hold them to FGs, etc) and the offence wins the games. But this past season didn't really see that, so I'm happy to give him another shot and jump in with the TBD group. Wouldn't mind seeing some more blitzes and making life difficult for opposing QBs though (especially rookie ones).

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I'm not the biggest Pees fan. But he's not entirely at fault for the defenses struggles. The defense had it's moments last year. Suggs and Dumervil were at times, mainly the beginning of the year, VERY effective..... Only to get gassed by the end of the game due to an incompetent offense.

Yeah, not everything was his fault. If the offense sucks, the defense is gonna get tired. I guarentee you, if we has a semi decent offense who could stay on the field, the defense would've been better in the fourth.

I do think Pees is ultra conservative, but he's not entirely to blame

To be fair, the time of possession was very slightly against us this past season (we had the ball for 30:20 a game and our opponents had it for 30:38).

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Not as good as most of our past coordinators, but solid.

Is he? He doesn't have near the talent to work with that the other guys did.....Rex's organized chaos would simply be chaos with the cast we had the past two years

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I'm content with Pees. I'm not overly elated that's he's our guy there, but I'm not really frustrated with him, either. I think this year will tell us a lot, so I might choose an actual side of the fence come next offseason depending on what I see this time around.

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Pees has the experience and knowledge of the game that we need. I believe his best trait as a coach is our redzone defense, it's been great the last 2 years. I think he's done a solid job with what he's had. Ideally, I'd like the Jets to fire Rex Ryan after this season and we bring him back as the DC ... but that's a pipe dream lol.

Yes, he is a good d DC, but I miss the pressure packages. This is why people compare him to Mattison. When we have guys like Suggs and Doom to draw attention, we need to be bringing pressure from other spots. With the speed we now have at the LB and S spots, I really want to see us start to get aggressive. But, I don't see that happening with Pees as DC.

As for Rex, I doubt he would ever return after we passed on him for Harbs. Too bad because he was a great DC, and will be again once the Jets give him the boot, but I don't think there would be any way he would do it here.

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Solid defensive coordinator. I think that describes him best. Would I hire Wade Phillips over him? Yes.

Unless he wanted to take a break from coaching, I'm amazed no one has taken him yet. I'd love to have him on the staff.

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So far I'm a fan.  There weren't really any times where his play calling was total crap in my opinion.  Not like Mattison and the memorable 3 man rush trying to finish out games.

 

Belichick is a defensive genius so whatever he learned in New England I am fine with.  Our legendary 2000 defense wasn't even ranked 1st in yards that season.  It's all about points.  

 

Looking at our group of players I don't fault Pees at all.  A lot of young guys and a lot of turnover.  I recall last season most of the mistakes being the players fault.  Not playing the ball correctly, poor coverage, missed tackles.  Haven't really seen any problems I can directly put on Pees.

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Yes, he is a good d DC, but I miss the pressure packages. This is why people compare him to Mattison. When we have guys like Suggs and Doom to draw attention, we need to be bringing pressure from other spots. With the speed we now have at the LB and S spots, I really want to see us start to get aggressive. But, I don't see that happening with Pees as DC.

As for Rex, I doubt he would ever return after we passed on him for Harbs. Too bad because he was a great DC, and will be again once the Jets give him the boot, but I don't think there would be any way he would do it here.

We have used a few pressure moves this past season - particularly from Arthur Brown and Daryl Smith - but I agree it'd be nice to see a few more, to keep an OL honest. With Mosley brought in and Elam getting closer to the LoS, I could see a few more fun moves in the future. But we'll see.

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i think pees is pretty damn good and i dont get why so many dont like him. he may be "conservative" in the sense that he doesnt bring that heavy blitz consistently, but he keeps it mixed up, and his situational play calling is pretty spot on, he has his slip ups, but that can also be a lack of execution, but for the most part, when the chips are down, he knows what play call to make and he does it well, last year was a matter of not executing in crucial moments

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I like Pees, his defense isn't about athleticism but more on positioning and reads. Works well with the veterans we have, and also forces our young guys to learn the game. I'm fine with him.

 

He's shown us that he can game plan very well, we just struggle sometimes with adjustments, but I don't know who to blame for that. 

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imho,,he is serviceable he is good he would not be my top 5 DC,I like those aggressive chaotic defenses,, we have a patriot type def,it is OK ,,,    

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I wish he would be a bit more aggressive outside the redzone but he has a good redzone defense which helps. As said, he has a similar style to that of the Pats old defenses. I think he is a good DC but I wouldn't go call him some great mastermind. He does a good job and the defense is respectable. Hopefully with the talent on that squad now, he can make this defense even better(should also throw in an improved offense to control TOP even though it wasn't that lopsided to start).

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I stand where I stand with all the other defensive coordinators....meaning this defense was built/made by legendary players.

 

Ray Lewis ,Ed Reed etc etc.  And those players got a lot of coaches jobs over the years.

 

Marvin Lewis:

Mike Nolan:

Rex Ryan:

Chuck Pagano:

 

all seem like solid coaches but considering they had several all time greats playing for them.

 

This will really be a test for Dean Pees, considering Suggs and Ngata are near the end. Elvis isn't getting any younger. We got to see which young stud is going to emerge as an elite playmaker.

 

Look Dean Pees had success in New England so he was accomplished before coming to Baltimore.  I think last year showed Dean Pees is doing a solid job. He's a little more conservative than Rex like Pagano was, but still solid.

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There are many interesting points made here so far.  The term "conservative" to me needs to be defined better.  I may be just used to the NFC North style of smash mouth football and that to me is "conservative", i.e. being the norm.  Our departure from that in recent years (even under Pagano/Matgtison) I think is a reflection now of the fact that they have their franchise QB who'll soon strart costing them an arm ana leg in the salary cap.  They very deftly tailored high priced veteran their contracts to be as cap friendly as possible and that meant using the "best practices" of another successful team they had to emulate in order to compete with - the Patriots. They used rookies, cast-offs, criminals and washed up vets to fill roles (on both sides) and it works.  Pees was an insider in that system for years and after a year of learning the Ravens-way he got his shot and began remodling the defense in a similar fashion to the Patriots the those reasons. 

 

He's had two years, lost is leadership after the first year and had a newer/younger roster for his second.  He didn;t have the talent that Rex or Pagano had with super stars in or very close to their prime.  He did what they do in New England and filled the rest with role players and new how to read offenses to game them situationally.  Late year wasn;t his year, but again, I don;tfault him as much as Caldwell for letting the offense fall off the map.  

 

Being "conservative" to me means a departure from high pressure, smashmouth to a finesseful, intellectual game.  The Ravens seem to actually prefer smart players to athletic freaks these days because they can pick up the reads to outwit rather than outrun or hit.

 

Having Kubiak will only help Pees out.  I don't expect a repeat of last year even with potential injuries.  But it seems to me there are many fans and even some radio show hosts that really do a disservice to the man.   

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Another factor I expect to get heat for is that I think we overstated Pagano's impact a bit.

 

In 2011, aside from Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, we faced Colt McCoy, a rookie Andy Lolton (the third-year guy's bad enough), Matt Schaub, Blaine Gabbert, Mat Hasselbeck, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith (with a porous line, no less), Kevin Kolb, Tarvaris Jackson and Curtis Painter or whoever the Colts used (Wiki tells me it was Dan Orlovsky. My point exactly). We also had much better personnel on defence than 2012.

 

In 2012, we did face Schaub and Dalton again, and the Browns upgraded to Brandon Weeden (lol). We also had Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Tony Romo (not throwing a game-losing interception), Eli Manning and RGKnee at his peak. Chuck in the guys we lost in the prior offseason and injury struggles and it shouldn't have been a surprise that our defence was that dreadful - especially after looking so dominant the year before. We did face our share of useless QBs, but there weren't 13 of them in the season.

 

I liked Pagano, but it'd be interesting to see how he'd have done in 2012. And I wonder if his dominant year skewed our views on Pees a little.

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Our D lacked a true FS and ILB running mate for Smith

Suggs, Doom, Canty and Webb were coming off injuries or injured themselves and Ngata just isnt the force he used to be. We drafted a ton on D and that needs to come to light this year, because it didnt manifest last year. They will be an impressive unit and Pees will be part of that.

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Yes, he is a good d DC, but I miss the pressure packages. This is why people compare him to Mattison. When we have guys like Suggs and Doom to draw attention, we need to be bringing pressure from other spots. With the speed we now have at the LB and S spots, I really want to see us start to get aggressive. But, I don't see that happening with Pees as DC.

As for Rex, I doubt he would ever return after we passed on him for Harbs. Too bad because he was a great DC, and will be again once the Jets give him the boot, but I don't think there would be any way he would do it here.

 

Pees is that middle ground between Mattison and Rex or even Pagano, so I don't mind him as the DC. I do truly miss those insane pressure packages though. I don't see a return to that with Pees either, which is unfortunate. That was a huge part of our identity. However, I do not think Pees has aspirations to be a HC, so it is nice to have stability for the young players.

 

As for Rex, I actually think he would return if given the chance. I believe him and Harbaugh are on good terms and he can see why we chose John. I'd love to get him back in Bmore, he's the best DC in the game IMO. 

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Pees is that middle ground between Mattison and Rex or even Pagano, so I don't mind him as the DC. I do truly miss those insane pressure packages though. I don't see a return to that with Pees either, which is unfortunate. That was a huge part of our identity. However, I do not think Pees has aspirations to be a HC, so it is nice to have stability for the young players.

 

As for Rex, I actually think he would return if given the chance. I believe him and Harbaugh are on good terms and he can see why we chose John. I'd love to get him back in Bmore, he's the best DC in the game IMO. 

 

I agree with everything you stated, except the last part. Rex Ryan is one prideful man, and I don't think he'd be happy to return to a team that passed him up for a different coach who was completely unrelated to the team. In order to do that, he would have to eat a huge amount of crow, and a prideful guy just does not do that. Am I faulting him for that? Heck no, but that's just the way it is.

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I agree with everything you stated, except the last part. Rex Ryan is one prideful man, and I don't think he'd be happy to return to a team that passed him up for a different coach who was completely unrelated to the team. In order to do that, he would have to eat a huge amount of crow, and a prideful guy just does not do that. Am I faulting him for that? Heck no, but that's just the way it is.

Rex would prefer to keep is job as the Jets HC, but if he was to be fired I think he would accept just about any coaching position that was offered to him. Coming back here might be a slightly embarrassing, but he would not refuse a job offer if he was out of one.

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Rex would prefer to keep is job as the Jets HC, but if he was to be fired I think he would accept just about any coaching position that was offered to him. Coming back here might be a slightly embarrassing, but he would not refuse a job offer if he was out of one.

I don't see it that way. If he was fired, teams would line up for him as a DC. It's not like we would be the only team interested. And we would have to fire Pees because as someone else stated, he has no desire to be a HC. I just don't see a situation where Rex would be back with us.

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The Patriots defense hasn't been the same since Pees left. I like him as our Coordinator. He's one of the smarter coordinators in the game. A lot of the big yards given up was due to a rookie SS playing FS, Webb recovering from his knee injury, and Ngata playing non motivated for most of the season. I can only remember 1 time I cursed him out through the TV screen and that was the 4th down play against Miami. Other then that he's been very solid.

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I don't like his style - his is way too passive overall.

 

Let me put it this way - we just gave him our top 3 picks last season and our top 3 picks this season plus FA additions last year in Smith and Dumerville.

 

So yeah, I expect a Top 5 defense this season. I expected better than out of the Top 10 last season.

 

Anything out of the Top 8 though means he has failed IMO.

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