Harbs/Tyrod question

[The Raven]

Close the thread!

 

Let's put it this way... You want to compare how good they were in college? 

Flacco was a first rounder, and was good enough to have a team trade to get him. Tyrod almost went undrafted.

 

Let's take that a step further!!! Flacco was good enough to get drafted in the first round out of a small D1 school, not a well-known place like Virginia Tech. This isn't about their college performance, though.

[SecretAgentMan]

Let's take that a step further!!! Flacco was good enough to get drafted in the first round out of a small D1 school, not a well-known place like Virginia Tech. This isn't about their college performance, though.

Yeah. I've made it known I don't like Tyrod.... I think he'd excel in a Chip Kelly esq scheme(as a backup), but even with Keith "sucking" atm, I think he actually might win the job. 

[rmw10]

Yeah. I've made it known I don't like Tyrod.... I think he'd excel in a Chip Kelly esq scheme(as a backup), but even with Keith "sucking" atm, I think he actually might win the job. 

 

I don't see us going with Wenning as the only backup.  It's either Tyrod or a cut Texans QB in my opinion.

[Willbacker]

I don't see us going with Wenning as the only backup.  It's either Tyrod or a cut Texans QB in my opinion.

You think Kubiak would want either Yates or Keenum. They got him fired.

 

The problem with Tyrod is you gotta run a whole different offense for him.

[rmw10]

You think Kubiak would want either Yates or Keenum. They got him fired.

 

The problem with Tyrod is you gotta run a whole different offense for him.

 

Yes I do.  They know the system and could play in emergency situations without missing a beat.  Are they all that good?  Nope, but at least they fit better as a backup than Tyrod. 

[Willbacker]

Yes I do.  They know the system and could play in emergency situations without missing a beat.  Are they all that good?  Nope, but at least they fit better as a backup than Tyrod. 

I'd be very surprized if Tyrod makes the team. Right now the Texans do have 4 QBs with all of them taking some 1st team reps. One of them will be let go(imo Yates) barring injury but I'd be worried having Wenning as the only backup but you never know. Just not big on the Texans QBs but I'm sure choices will be limited.

[rmw10]

I'd be very surprized if Tyrod makes the team. Right now the Texans do have 4 QBs with all of them taking some 1st team reps. One of them will be let go(imo Yates) barring injury but I'd be worried having Wenning as the only backup but you never know. Just not big on the Texans QBs but I'm sure choices will be limited.

 

Remember that it's only the backup QB though.  Except for rare instances, if your starting QB goes down, you're pretty much done.  The reality is that if Yates or Keenum are cut, they know the system.  They both have a better understanding of the offense than every QB on our roster does right now.  At the end of the day, there aren't even enough quality starting QBs let alone backup QBs.  We might as well go with someone that knows the system and can at least put up a fight and help the transition, assuming Yates or Keenum are cut.  I see Yates as the one who's cut as well, for what it's worth.  Neither are great QBs, but they are better than Tyrod, and like you said, I don't see Wenning being the only backup.  We've been saying for awhile that we'd like to carry 3 QBs.  I see this year as the year.

[Militant X 1]

Guess what? Tyrod isn't a college QB anymore. He's an NFL QB. His college stats are pathetically irrelevant. But if you do want to talk about college stats, Flacco's numbers trump Tyrod's in almost every category. 

 

I really don't care how great a passer you think he was in college. The fact is he's a horrible passer now and the numbers prove it. It's not even like he has the wins or the clutch comebacks either. Tyrod is a bum in the NFL. No way around it.

 

Tyrod is in the NFL?  Really?  Duh!  C'mon Raven!  Don't just jump into the conversation and add your 2 cents and miss the whole point of it and then derail it and take it somewhere that it wasn't going!  Ravensdfan mentioned that Tyrod was an inaccurate passer his entire college career, and I came back and showed how he actually improved on his passing and TD's thrown his last 2 years in college.  That's it!  Nothing more than that!  I said absolutely NOTHING about comparing Tyrod's college stats to Joe Flacco's.  Stop the madness man!  Smh!

 

#Mili

[Bltravens]

Why do you guys even bother with this topic every 6 months?  Tyrod won't see the field unless Flacco gets hurt because the guys who make millions of dollars every year and have forgotten more about football than we even know, made the decision that Flacco was a better QB.

 

Frankly I'm more inclined to trust them.  Considering they've done a pretty damn good job over the last 5 years.

[BmoreBird22]

I wouldn't say Tyrod was inaccurate in college, just eratic. He had lots of talent around him, which helped mask deficiencies.

He's got inconsistent touch, has inconsistent velocity, trusts his arm too much to make difficult throws, doesn't progress through his reads, and is far too ready to scramble. Shoddy mechanics with sloppy footwork likely lead to inconsistent velocity and touch.

These are probably things that could improve if he got a chance to get significant snaps, but he's not a good quarterback right now

[52520Andrew]

Lol, I just got the Seinfeld joke. I guess, it's not the same without the voice.

 

 

I wouldn't say that. Steve Young, Elway, Staubach. There have been plenty of great mobile QBs, but all them played with great pocket passers at the same time in the same league. I don't see why one would have to make the other obsolete. "Mobile QBs are taking over" is yet another sports analyst "catch phrase", just like the whole "elite" discussion. An argument that can not and will never be answered.

In the end the QB position is very demanding mentally as the athelete needs to be able to recover from mistakes quickly and deal with alot of pressure making a bunch of split second decisions. If you have a QB like that, no matter if he's mobile or a pocket passer, you take him. That's it.

 

Fran Tarkenton as well if we are going mobile QBs from the past. Couldn't let you not mention him lol

[ravensdfan]

Remember that it's only the backup QB though.  Except for rare instances, if your starting QB goes down, you're pretty much done.  The reality is that if Yates or Keenum are cut, they know the system.  They both have a better understanding of the offense than every QB on our roster does right now.  At the end of the day, there aren't even enough quality starting QBs let alone backup QBs.  We might as well go with someone that knows the system and can at least put up a fight and help the transition, assuming Yates or Keenum are cut.  I see Yates as the one who's cut as well, for what it's worth.  Neither are great QBs, but they are better than Tyrod, and like you said, I don't see Wenning being the only backup.  We've been saying for awhile that we'd like to carry 3 QBs.  I see this year as the year.

 

Depends on what you mean by down. If you only need a back-up to win a few games until your starter is back - then you're not done for the season.  Certainly there are those rare instances that a back-up rolls in and performs above all expectations, but in reality - your back-up is there to get a few wins and keep you in the playoff hunt if your starter is out for a couple weeks.

[rmw10]

Depends on what you mean by down. If you only need a back-up to win a few games until your starter is back - then you're not done for the season.  Certainly there are those rare instances that a back-up rolls in and performs above all expectations, but in reality - your back-up is there to get a few wins and keep you in the playoff hunt if your starter is out for a couple weeks.

 

Exactly.  I was referring to the season there, but what you said was also my point, although it wasn't as clear as you stated it.  Having someone that knows the system can certainly come in and hopefully win a few games.  I'd like to think one of them has a better chance than Tyrod.

[ravensdfan]

Guess what? Tyrod isn't a college QB anymore. He's an NFL QB. His college stats are pathetically irrelevant. But if you do want to talk about college stats, Flacco's numbers trump Tyrod's in almost every category. 

 

I really don't care how great a passer you think he was in college. The fact is he's a horrible passer now and the numbers prove it. It's not even like he has the wins or the clutch comebacks either. Tyrod is a bum in the NFL. No way around it.

 

To be fair, Mili wasn't suggesting that Tyrod was better than Flacco or should become the starter over Flacco.

 

He's just a fan of the kid and believes on another team he can be a successful QB in the NFL. I happen to disagree. No big deal. People are entitled to their opinions.

[hawkprey]

Tyrod's most important job is to play the opposing QB in practice. Sometimes it calls for a QB with great arm strength or mobility. That's why Tyrod's around. 

Plus we ALMOST beat the Bengals with him at QB. We could probably field a good rushing team with him as a wildcat QB, but not a good offense. He'd need McCown receivers to look good with his arm. Didn't do too bad last preseason though.

[Militant X 1]

I wouldn't say Tyrod was inaccurate in college, just eratic. He had lots of talent around him, which helped mask deficiencies.

He's got inconsistent touch, has inconsistent velocity, trusts his arm too much to make difficult throws, doesn't progress through his reads, and is far too ready to scramble. Shoddy mechanics with sloppy footwork likely lead to inconsistent velocity and touch.

These are probably things that could improve if he got a chance to get significant snaps, but he's not a good quarterback right now

 

And that he was!  Especially in his freshman and sophomore years.  I like your assessment of Tyrod here and I completely agree that IF he was getting significant reps and utilized in games more than as a "gimmick" that he'd do well!  Again, he needs to be on a team that may be able to use him more than what the Ravens have.  I'd like to see what becomes of him elsewhere.

 

To be fair, Mili wasn't suggesting that Tyrod was better than Flacco or should become the starter over Flacco.

 

He's just a fan of the kid and believes on another team he can be a successful QB in the NFL. I happen to disagree. No big deal. People are entitled to their opinions.

 

Thank you ravensdfan!

 

#Mili

[ravensdfan]

 

 

Thank you ravensdfan!

 

#Mili

 

No problem.

 

I would have no issue being proven wrong in my assessment of Tyrod either. He's there every day, puts in the work and never complains. He's just not allowed to have a successful day if his future team is playing the Ravens.

[BmoreBird22]

And that he was!  Especially in his freshman and sophomore years.  I like your assessment of Tyrod here and I completely agree that IF he was getting significant reps and utilized in games more than as a "gimmick" that he'd do well!  Again, he needs to be on a team that may be able to use him more than what the Ravens have.  I'd like to see what becomes of him elsewhere.

 

 

Thank you ravensdfan!

 

#Mili

Yeah, I honestly feel bad for him because he is truly raw and has some kinks to work out, but he's not really being given the best chance to work it out.

[ravensfan520]

You think Kubiak would want either Yates or Keenum. They got him fired.

The problem with Tyrod is you gotta run a whole different offense for him.

The problem with that statement is that there are some reports that Taylor looks good in camp running the offense and its Flacco that is still coming along with his footwork and struggling with his accuracy and leading wrs. (Posted in another thread)We will see who grasps the offense better once the preseason starts and pads are on. They are both starting a new system and this system could also be a great system for Taylor. Flacco was drafted for Cams system and Taylor was drafted for... well who knows because Harbaugh likes running qbs... Troy, Taylor etc.

[ravensfan520]

I wouldn't say Tyrod was inaccurate in college, just eratic. He had lots of talent around him, which helped mask deficiencies.

He's got inconsistent touch, has inconsistent velocity, trusts his arm too much to make difficult throws, doesn't progress through his reads, and is far too ready to scramble. Shoddy mechanics with sloppy footwork likely lead to inconsistent velocity and touch.

These are probably things that could improve if he got a chance to get significant snaps, but he's not a good quarterback right now

Flacco has the same flaws... but when he messes up because it's everyone else fault... When was the last time Taylor played a stretch of games with the ones and had success or failure... well there is none... Taylor may have got a play here or there but in his one game against the Bengals he played with the backups and we expect him to Excel with that. When Flacco played with a group of BACKUPS we missed the playoffs and he threw 22 ints.

[BmoreBird22]

Flacco has the same flaws... but when he messes up because it's everyone else fault... When was the last time Taylor played a stretch of games with the ones and had success or failure... well there is none... Taylor may have got a play here or there but in his one game against the Bengals he played with the backups and we expect him to Excel with that. When Flacco played with a group of BACKUPS we missed the playoffs and he threw 22 ints.

Flacco does not have all of those problems. He has his own problems, but those are not them.

I would also consider New England a fair amount of snaps. We saw how that turned out for him.

During the Bengals game it was a mix of backups and starters, if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure they sat the veterans, but let some of the younger guys stay in

[PolishRifle]

The problem with that statement is that there are some reports that Taylor looks good in camp running the offense and its Flacco that is still coming along with his footwork and struggling with his accuracy and leading wrs. (Posted in another thread)We will see who grasps the offense better once the preseason starts and pads are on. They are both starting a new system and this system could also be a great system for Taylor. Flacco was drafted for Cams system and Taylor was drafted for... well who knows because Harbaugh likes running qbs... Troy, Taylor etc.

 

You're right. The writing's on the wall. Flacco will get benched for Taylor. Tyrod gets plenty of chances during training to shine in front of the coaches. He clearly never did stand out (even got called out by Harbs for it) and he will not start over Joe. Just stop.

[ravensfan520]

You're right. The writing's on the wall. Flacco will get benched for Taylor. Tyrod gets plenty of chances during training to shine in front of the coaches. He clearly never did stand out (even got called out by Harbs for it) and he will not start over Joe. Just stop.

I never said he will start I am just saying that by having him run practice everyday with the 2 and 3 in a system built for Joe or as a scout offense hasn't done him any justice but Kubiaks system is brand new for both and if it can be run by Schuab why can't it be run by Taylor. The NFL is a what have u done for me lately and they should be coming in every year battling for the starting spot... that's always been the problem with Flacco and why he hasn't improved as much as we should want... He was giving the starting job from day 1 with no competition even Bulger was just collecting a check. Flacco showed us last year without the right tools he can falter too. No qbs can succeed without the right weapons around him so why do we think Taylor can't get better if he is in the right system or surrounded by starters. Look I understand he won a super bowl but so did dilfer and so has many other qbs without High pedigrees. Again not saying Taylor is better just saying don't just right him off because of your love for Flacco. He is currently a Raven and u should want him to succeed.

[ravensfan520]

Flacco does not have all of those problems. He has his own problems, but those are not them.

I would also consider New England a fair amount of snaps. We saw how that turned out for him.

During the Bengals game it was a mix of backups and starters, if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure they sat the veterans, but let some of the younger guys stay in

Yeah that was the first time we got to see what our future was going to look like at center... and our wrs were Thompson Dickson Doss and some of Jones...Pierce was the main back with allen. The Bengals played basically their starting d because I remember the int Taylor threw was to the guy who signed a big contract this off season. And the Patriots game... how well was it going for Flacco that game... was he lighting it up.

[arnie_uk]

I never said he will start I am just saying that by having him run practice everyday with the 2 and 3 in a system built for Joe or as a scout offense hasn't done him any justice but Kubiaks system is brand new for both and if it can be run by Schuab why can't it be run by Taylor. The NFL is a what have u done for me lately and they should be coming in every year battling for the starting spot... that's always been the problem with Flacco and why he hasn't improved as much as we should want... He was giving the starting job from day 1 with no competition even Bulger was just collecting a check. Flacco showed us last year without the right tools he can falter too. No qbs can succeed without the right weapons around him so why do we think Taylor can't get better if he is in the right system or surrounded by starters. Look I understand he won a super bowl but so did dilfer and so has many other qbs without High pedigrees. Again not saying Taylor is better just saying don't just right him off because of your love for Flacco. He is currently a Raven and u should want him to succeed.

how about the fact he's an awful passer?

[ravensfan520]

how about the fact he's an awful passer?

He worked with a qbs coach this off season to work on his throws and Flacco isn't the most accurate guy either. Completion percentages can be misleading it can look better if the wr makes a remarkable catch or bad if they drop an easy ball. But if you watched last year you can't say that Flacco looked like he was on target all the time. But of course we will chalk it to the line and forget the pre snap reads and looking off coverages or saying the wr should have caught the ball he threw into triple coverage.

[Inqui]

He worked with a qbs coach this off season to work on his throws and Flacco isn't the most accurate guy either. Completion percentages can be misleading it can look better if the wr makes a remarkable catch or bad if they drop an easy ball. But if you watched last year you can't say that Flacco looked like he was on target all the time. But of course we will chalk it to the line and forget the pre snap reads and looking off coverages or saying the wr should have caught the ball he threw into triple coverage.

If you look at the tape, Joe's a significantly better thrower than Tyrod too. I'd love to see Tyrod succeed, but there's no way he can even do something like this.

 

And that's before you get into the more complex or difficult stuff. Joe definitely has his flaws, but your new system argument doesn't really say why Tyrod will get the nod over #5.

[PolishRifle]

I never said he will start I am just saying that by having him run practice everyday with the 2 and 3 in a system built for Joe or as a scout offense hasn't done him any justice but Kubiaks system is brand new for both and if it can be run by Schuab why can't it be run by Taylor. The NFL is a what have u done for me lately and they should be coming in every year battling for the starting spot... that's always been the problem with Flacco and why he hasn't improved as much as we should want... He was giving the starting job from day 1 with no competition even Bulger was just collecting a check. Flacco showed us last year without the right tools he can falter too. No qbs can succeed without the right weapons around him so why do we think Taylor can't get better if he is in the right system or surrounded by starters. Look I understand he won a super bowl but so did dilfer and so has many other qbs without High pedigrees. Again not saying Taylor is better just saying don't just right him off because of your love for Flacco. He is currently a Raven and u should want him to succeed.

 

First of all, the offense doesn't have to adjust to a backup. You build around your starting QB.

 

Secondly,Flacco was thrown into the starting QB position in his rookie year. Nobody waited until the offense was "just right for him".

 

Thridly, stop it with the "even Trent Dilfer won it" crap. Flacco is way better than Dilfer (it's not even close) and the teams Joe was on were way worse than the 2000 Ravens. We never came even close to replicating that team. So stop treating the 2008-2012 Ravens like the 2000 team, just because they both happen to have Ray Lewis on it.

 

Fourth-ly? (Is that even a word?) Are we sure Tyrod is as good as Schaub? Because I would dispute that.

[PurpleCityLights]

Neither do I Fly! And it wasn't all on Tyrod! Just like cats love to say that our horrible offense last year wasn't all on Joe. Bottom line to me is that Tyrod needs to be on another team that may be able to utilize his skill set and athleticism better than the Ravens have. He has been reduced to "gimmicks" on this team. And now, that is all anyone sees! It's a shame!

#Mili

THIS^^^^.

Mike Preston was on 105.7 the Fan & said Tyrod was safe for now.

[flynismo]

First of all, the offense doesn't have to adjust to a backup. You build around your starting QB.

 

Secondly,Flacco was thrown into the starting QB position in his rookie year. Nobody waited until the offense was "just right for him".

 

Thridly, stop it with the "even Trent Dilfer won it" crap. Flacco is way better than Dilfer (it's not even close) and the teams Joe was on were way worse than the 2000 Ravens. We never came even close to replicating that team. So stop treating the 2008-2012 Ravens like the 2000 team, just because they both happen to have Ray Lewis on it.

 

Fourth-ly? (Is that even a word?) Are we sure Tyrod is as good as Schaub? Because I would dispute that.

 

What? Who the heck said Tyrod is as good as Schaub? That's just insane. Schaub had one bad year. Granted, even at his best Schaub was never anything special, but that's a joke to compare Tyrod to him.