most surprising draft pick in ravens history?

[flynismo]

Go back and watch games from the first quarter to half of the season. Oher was better than KO, McKinnie, Yanda, Shipley, Gradkowski. KO, McKinnie. They  (K.O., Yanda, Shipley, Gradkowski) were terrible. The only player to hold his own during that time was Oher, regardless of the various reasons the other players sucked to high heaven.

All you are saying is that Oher played  better than Gino, Shipley and a hurt Yanda and KO for small part of a season. Not exactly a ringing endorsement there...

[jimjim5]

All you are saying is that Oher played  better than Gino, Shipley and a hurt Yanda and KO for small part of a season. Not exactly a ringing endorsement there...

 

I am endorsing Oher as a capable player.

[The Raven]

Go back and watch games from the first quarter to half of the season. Oher was better than KO, McKinnie, Yanda, Shipley, Gradkowski. KO, McKinnie. They  (K.O., Yanda, Shipley, Gradkowski) were terrible. The only player to hold his own during that time was Oher, regardless of the various reasons the other players sucked to high heaven.

 

Hahahahahahaha.

[flynismo]

Hahahahahahaha.

I still don't think he understands the humor of what he is saying.....sigh

[flynismo]

I am endorsing Oher as a capable player.

 

I guess we have different definitions of capable then. He is below average, at best, as far as I can see. And saying that he played better than two injured guys and two scrubs for a portion of the seas -- not even a whole year -- it is not a very confident endorsement of the guy

[jimjim5]

I still don't think he understands the humor of what he is saying.....sigh

 

 

I guess we have different definitions of capable then. He is below average, at best, as far as I can see. And saying that he played better than two injured guys and two scrubs for a portion of the seas -- not even a whole year -- it is not a very confident endorsement of the guy

 

I understand clearly what I am saying.

 

And no offense, but you guys have made a lot of evaluations and observations of schemes or players that were completely incorrect in the recent past. I'll trust my eyes over yours.

 

You gotta remember that the Ravens are not the best at developing/nurturing/blossoming/exploiting offensive talent. I will put Oher, Dickson, Bolden, Clayton on that list.

 

Oher is a bit better than serviceable. He is capable.

[Inqui]

Oher is a bit better than serviceable. He is capable.

I agree, and switching him from one side of the line to the other didn't do him any great favours.

 

He wasn't flash but he was a solid RT for us. Probably not an ideal long-term guy, but not nearly as bad as people here are making out.

[jimjim5]

I agree, and switching him from one side of the line to the other didn't do him any great favours.

 

He wasn't flash but he was a solid RT for us. Probably not an ideal long-term guy, but not nearly as bad as people here are making out.

 

The thing is that if he wasn't moved all around and was in a stable, credible offense/offensive line scheme for a steady amount of time, I think he would be MUCH, MUCH better. I remember Oher just bullying players on the line in his rook year and into his second season. Then the powers that be (coaches) started moving him and being critical of his play.... Crazy thing about that is while Oher wasn't "performing or adapting well" the coaching staff wasn't either. Harbs and team were learning to be adaptable as they went along, but no one remembers or acknowledges that FACT. Harbs was clueless when it came to match-ups and scheming. He was dependent on inept offensive coaches . However, Harbs has been forgiven because he's has the blessing of ownership because he righted a lot of wrong things in the Castle. Therefore, he has been afforded the time to learn and correct his mistakes. A player does not have that luxury, whether the issue that causes the player to not perform optimally is the coach's fault or solely his fault.

 

Most people need consistency to learn and blossom, I see Oher as that guy. Isn't that the story of his life?? If the Ravens didn't see that , shame on them, because there were MANY reports out on Oher about this exact issue. but we know that the Ravens like to square leg things on offense. The Kubiak move was the first time I think I have witnessed the Ravens addressing this management deficiency correctly.

[jimmypowder]

Mark Clayton. I just didn't see a lot of talent here .what was he a first or second rounder ?

[ravensnick]

Mark Clayton. I just didn't see a lot of talent here .what was he a first or second rounder ?

First (ugh). Just to make it worse, we took him over Aaron Rodgers and Roddy White.

[The Raven]

I understand clearly what I am saying.

 

And no offense, but you guys have made a lot of evaluations and observations of schemes or players that were completely incorrect in the recent past. I'll trust my eyes over yours.

 

You gotta remember that the Ravens are not the best at developing/nurturing/blossoming/exploiting offensive talent. I will put Oher, Dickson, Bolden, Clayton on that list.

 

Oher is a bit better than serviceable. He is capable.

 

That must be why the FO is so confident in dumping him for a pair of late round offensive linemen, one of which is undersized for an NFL RT. 

[ravensnick]

That must be why the FO is so confident in dumping him for a pair of late round offensive linemen, one of which is undersized for an NFL RT. 

We would have resigned him for the right price, but the Titans gave him huge money. The one good thing I could say about Oher is he was versatile and never injured.

[The Raven]

We would have resigned him for the right price, but the Titans gave him huge money. The one good thing I could say about Oher is he was versatile and never injured.

 

I'll definitely give him credit for that. He was a workhorse.

[ravensnick]

I'll definitely give him credit for that. He was a workhorse.

Not many players would be able to constantly move from RT to LT and back again. That said, he was a penalty factory and never put in all together. 

[mhead66]

Oher was an average RT - yes, he was generally healthy, but he wasn't an outstanding talent... and he committed FAR too many penalties.

 

Everyone's complaint about Oher is that he was an average player drafted in the 1st round, when first-rounders are expected to be Pro-Bowl talent... and it's usually only LTs that warrant 1st round selection.  Guards, Centers and RTs selected in the first round are - usually - only high caliber, Pro-Bowl level talent... which Oher wasn't.

[jimjim5]

Mark Clayton. I just didn't see a lot of talent here .what was he a first or second rounder ?

 

Mark Clayton was a YAC guy. He was a YAC guy at Oklahoma, so why did they think he game would deviate much? He should  have been used as a slot type receiver that caught more shallow crosses, bubble screens, deep outs in defensive soft spots. If he was in an offense that was based on timing and exploiting mismatches, he would have been fine.

 

Not to go off topic, but Clayton's inability to excel in Baltimore's offense shows Mason's brilliance. Mason would be a HOF candidate if he played some were else. His route running and hands were marvelous. Also, IMO playing in Baltimore has hurt Bolden's HOF candidacy.

[jimjim5]

Oher was an average RT - yes, he was generally healthy, but he wasn't an outstanding talent... and he committed FAR too many penalties.

 

Everyone's complaint about Oher is that he was an average player drafted in the 1st round, when first-rounders are expected to be Pro-Bowl talent... and it's usually only LTs that warrant 1st round selection.  Guards, Centers and RTs selected in the first round are - usually - only high caliber, Pro-Bowl level talent... which Oher wasn't.

 

Yes, a first round guy is expected to be an immediate starter.

 

A 15-20 draft pick is expected to be a high-level starter.

A 1-10  maybe a 1-15 pick (depending on the draft class) is expected to be high impact player.

A 1-5, 1-7 picks are looked at as the Elite future stars. 

 

So you are correct to a degree. However, I think your Pro-Bowl talent level expectation for all first round picks is a bit lofty when you consider that Oher was drafted #23 in the draft. Yes, I think a 20-32 or 25-32 guy is expected to be an impact guy. They should solidify their position for the team that picks them. That's having a positive impact on the team. If they deliver to become a Pro-bowl or All-Pro player, then the team that picked him got a gem  (or high-impact player, if you will). This is more the norm of expectation than every first-rounder being Pro-Bowl level player for there team. Just do the numbers and compound the years of first round draft picks that enter the league year after year. I'd say 1/4 of those become high impact players. A half of those guys become solid 4 year guys (that is an impact player). Somewhere up to 1/3 of those guys become first round busts (not being exact, but you get the point).

 

Oher wasn't a bust. Oher wasn't an elite guy, but he was an impact guy. A solid, capable, contributing 4 year starter that showed his flashes of high-level ability (and his anticipation issues showing as his weakness too). Oher did his job and filled those holes on the line. That is what you expect from a first round guy.

[flynismo]

Oher was an average RT - yes, he was generally healthy, but he wasn't an outstanding talent... and he committed FAR too many penalties.

 

Everyone's complaint about Oher is that he was an average player drafted in the 1st round, when first-rounders are expected to be Pro-Bowl talent... and it's usually only LTs that warrant 1st round selection.  Guards, Centers and RTs selected in the first round are - usually - only high caliber, Pro-Bowl level talent... which Oher wasn't.

Nah, Oher has incredible physical talent, his problem is that he's not much smarter than _______ <insert inanimate object>

[jimjim5]

Mark Clayton. I just didn't see a lot of talent here .what was he a first or second rounder ?

 

He was a first rounder that should have been a 2-3 rounder. I have no clue what the Ravens were thinking picking him so high.

[Gordo52]

First (ugh). Just to make it worse, we took him over Aaron Rodgers and Roddy White.

Also Heath Miller, Logan Mankins, Michael Roos, Later that draft we took Dan Cody over Vincent Jackson, Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, Evan Mathis and a few other players that would've made way bigger impacts than Clayton & Cody.

[flynismo]

He was a first rounder that should have been a 2-3 rounder. I have no clue what the Ravens were thinking picking him so high.

The homer in me wants to point out the fact that Clayton was a consensus 1st among media and most fans.....however, it sounds like you and I weren't quite as high on him. I thought he was a easy 2nd rounder, and possibly (ironically) the next Derrick Mason. Boy was I wrong...

point is, whether we view him as a 1st or 2nd, either way clearly there are big expectations for the guy being drafted so high....he was just as big a bust if we took him in the 2nd

[Poes Crows]

Without question Cleats Elam.

[flynismo]

Without question Cleats Elam.

I dunno, Flacco isn't far behind Cleats in being a bust. No matter, Mosley is sure to make this topic moot as bad as he will prove to be.

[ravensnick]

Also Heath Miller, Logan Mankins, Michael Roos, Later that draft we took Dan Cody over Vincent Jackson, Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, Evan Mathis and a few other players that would've made way bigger impacts than Clayton & Cody.

Just said Rodgers and White because those were two place at positions we needed.

[Poes Crows]

I dunno, Flacco isn't far behind Cleats in being a bust. No matter, Mosley is sure to make this topic moot as bad as he will prove to be.

 

You certainly understand that Joe Flacco has great attributes. He is however purely a System Guy.  He can win more Championships with the right tools around him.  Further interference from the Offices could thwart that.

 

Without being tongue in cheek, I have staked out a position that Mosley will turn out to be an exceedingly mediocre Raven.  Certainly not worth where we drafted him.  Ozzie Newsome on the other hand has once again called his first round selection  quote: "A Top 5 Player".  We'll see who is more correct, the venerable Oz or this Fan. 

 

Now Oz said the same about Cleats Elam, who is playing his very best right now, of course that's only because there is no football currently.

[BmoreBird22]

I dunno, Flacco isn't far behind Cleats in being a bust. No matter, Mosley is sure to make this topic moot as bad as he will prove to be.

You just had to get him going...

[Gordo52]

Just said Rodgers and White because those were two place at positions we needed.

Was just saying

[Gordo52]

You certainly understand that Joe Flacco has great attributes. He is however purely a System Guy. He can win more Championships with the right tools around him. Further interference from the Offices could thwart that.

Without being tongue in cheek, I have staked out a position that Mosley will turn out to be an exceedingly mediocre Raven. Certainly not worth where we drafted him. Ozzie Newsome on the other hand has once again called his first round selection quote: "A Top 5 Player". We'll see who is more correct, the venerable Oz or this Fan.

Now Oz said the same about Cleats Elam, who is playing his very best right now, of course that's only because there is no football currently.

Why you so salty?

[ravensnick]

Why you so salty?

Those words describe everything he says lol.

[ravensnick]

You certainly understand that Joe Flacco has great attributes. He is however purely a System Guy.  He can win more Championships with the right tools around him.  Further interference from the Offices could thwart that.

 

Without being tongue in cheek, I have staked out a position that Mosley will turn out to be an exceedingly mediocre Raven.  Certainly not worth where we drafted him.  Ozzie Newsome on the other hand has once again called his first round selection  quote: "A Top 5 Player".  We'll see who is more correct, the venerable Oz or this Fan. 

 

Now Oz said the same about Cleats Elam, who is playing his very best right now, of course that's only because there is no football currently.

Elam played well, considering he was a rookie thrust early into a role that wasn't his natural position.