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Hardbaugh

Feeling good about the Flacco/Kubiak relationship

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I guess we just have a difference in opinion. I view a big play as demoralizing but I view being able to get consistent gains even more so, especially in the running game because the defense knows it is coming and can still do nothing as the offense slowly goes down the field.

I think I can draw out my argument like this:

 

Say the big play offense is the all-or-nothing risk, and say it's equivalent to the standard "consistent play", meaning in either case you'll win the same amount of games. You're just as good a team, it's just your choice of play.

 

If your team isn't stacked with talent, the difficult games (and this applies directly to our 2012 run) will require more than just your average output to win. That means the only way you could win is by being a risky offense and succeeding. The Patriots are the classic "methodical drive" team, and they've consistently beat weaker teams but haven't won the Super Bowl in a decade. That might be why.

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I think I can draw out my argument like this:

 

Say the big play offense is the all-or-nothing risk, and say it's equivalent to the standard "consistent play", meaning in either case you'll win the same amount of games. You're just as good a team, it's just your choice of play.

 

If your team isn't stacked with talent, the difficult games (and this applies directly to our 2012 run) will require more than just your average output to win. That means the only way you could win is by being a risky offense and succeeding. The Patriots are the classic "methodical drive" team, and they've consistently beat weaker teams but haven't won the Super Bowl in a decade. That might be why.

 

It really depends on the situation but I think that if you get consistent gains, then you keep doing that and maybe go for a big play counter to it once the defense adjusts to stop it. If you can't get consistent gains, then big plays are all you really have. 

 

I guess it all really depends on the game situation as well. I just know that in a vaccum, I would take the consistent gains because it allows you to build off of it.

 

One of my favorite Ravens drives of all time was in 2008 against the Redskins when we had McClain and Neal run the ball every play on the drive and got consistent 4-5 yard gains each play. The more plays we ran, the more frustrated the defense became and they eventually tried to load up the box to try to stop it. Once they loaded the box, we called a pass over their heads that went for 6. You can build off of consistent gains, big plays can get a bit fluky. 

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As far as Kubiak and the "relationship", I'm feeling really positive also.  First of all, I think he's the most accomplished OC we've ever had.  Secondly, its his offense and he is the unquestioned final word.  And that seems to be sitting well with Joe.  Joe seems quick (in interviews) to defer to Kubiak's expertise.  There's a clearly implied respect and authority given to the coach.  The way it sounds there is also a clear right and wrong decision to be made when executing this offense.  I think Joe referred to it as pretty black and white, which minimizes indecision and facilitates quicker decisions.  Hoping it pans out that way anyway.

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I will wait for on the field results and do hope it works out but it still have to be proven. Confidence is good but results are better and results are what we don't yet have.

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So I read this on the BaltimoreSun website:

 

"Just a hunch here, but it seems as though quarterback Joe Flacco is not having fun, not like a year ago. Maybe it's because he has to learn a new offense and has new assistant coaches around him again.

I also think Jersey Joe is struggling a little bit with the foot work in dropping back because his passes have been off. In these OTAs, the foot work is stressed more than just about anything else."

 

I know, it's Mike Preston, but Joe has been picked off a couple of times and some have pointed out, that he looked "off" in recent practices. So maybe, that's something to worry about? I dunno, I really want Joe to improve from last season and pre-season is still so far away. -_- 

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So I read this on the BaltimoreSun website:

 

"Just a hunch here, but it seems as though quarterback Joe Flacco is not having fun, not like a year ago. Maybe it's because he has to learn a new offense and has new assistant coaches around him again.

I also think Jersey Joe is struggling a little bit with the foot work in dropping back because his passes have been off. In these OTAs, the foot work is stressed more than just about anything else."

 

I know, it's Mike Preston, but Joe has been picked off a couple of times and some have pointed out, that he looked "off" in recent practices. So maybe, that's something to worry about? I dunno, I really want Joe to improve from last season and pre-season is still so far away. -_- 

that was my concern with the kubiak offense, was the footwork.  joe is sort of heavy footed, and planted downfield.  The bootleg is fine, but that quick pocket work worries me.

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that was my concern with the kubiak offense, was the footwork.  joe is sort of heavy footed, and planted downfield.  The bootleg is fine, but that quick pocket work worries me.

 

It's not like he's built like Russel Wilson. Joe's 6foot6, so it's no surprise he isn't exactly nimble in the pocket. I agree, that Joe won't have a problem with rolling out of the pocket, but I bet it will take Joe some time to get used the footwork neccasry to pull of the WO (I still take the durablity, that Joe's big body brings over in-pocket-mobility, though).

 

I've got faith in Joe, but that is bothering me a little. I hope he gets over that, because I don't want to see any INTs or passes, that are a little short (according to russelstreet, anyway) in real games.

Wait and see, I guess. Pre-season starts in 2 months. Hopefully that's enough time for Joe to adjust.

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I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more pistol this year. The pistol is great for us because it allows long and tall QBs like Joe to get set quick while still preserving the threat of the run, unlike the shotgun. This is the situation the pistol was meant for. Joe gets a quick easy drop, and the run game isn't compromised. 

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At the risk of sounding like I'm making excuses, the guy is about 2 weeks into a new offense after spending the last 6 in a completely different offense. Right now the offense is probably doing more thinking then reacting. Also the entire unit is learning the offense so the trust between QB and WR, oline etc.. I honestly don't know why anyone wouldn't expect growing pains. It's not even training camp yet, let alone time to play a game. Coughlin just said his newoffense looks like his sons little league soccer team because guys are struggling to line up right and don't really know what to do.

Also the he's not having fun comment is unnecessary imo. It seems to imply that Flacco isn't happy with the offense and/or coaching and i don't think that's the case. Anytime you learn something new you go through an adjustment phase that's uncomfortable. The offense is learning on the fly while the defense knows exactly what it wants to do.

Now if there was a report that said Flacco looks like the worse QB on the field, I'd be worried

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At the risk of sounding like I'm making excuses, the guy is about 2 weeks into a new offense after spending the last 6 in a completely different offense. Right now the offense is probably doing more thinking then reacting. Also the entire unit is learning the offense so the trust between QB and WR, oline etc.. I honestly don't know why anyone wouldn't expect growing pains. It's not even training camp yet, let alone time to play a game. Coughlin just said his newoffense looks like his sons little league soccer team because guys are struggling to line up right and don't really know what to do.

Also the he's not having fun comment is unnecessary imo. It seems to imply that Flacco isn't happy with the offense and/or coaching and i don't think that's the case. Anytime you learn something new you go through an adjustment phase that's uncomfortable. The offense is learning on the fly while the defense knows exactly what it wants to do.

Now if there was a report that said Flacco looks like the worse QB on the field, I'd be worried

Give everyone some slack. It's the offseason, we have to talk about SOMETHING. :P

 

Personally I'm excited about the new offence, but I'm reserving judgement until at least the preseason.

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I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more pistol this year. The pistol is great for us because it allows long and tall QBs like Joe to get set quick while still preserving the threat of the run, unlike the shotgun. This is the situation the pistol was meant for. Joe gets a quick easy drop, and the run game isn't compromised. 

no man, the pistol was made for rg3 and kaepernickle to run wild, duh.

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no man, the pistol was made for rg3 and kaepernickle to run wild, duh.

 

The option is just one of the wonderful things made easier by the pistol, but I'm almost certain that it wasn't invented with that sole purpose in mind. Historically, the pistol was also been used by QBs struggling with mobility. For example, the Steelers used it while Ben was battling an ankle injury.

 

And regardless of what you think it was invented for, it would still help us out in this situation.

 

EDIT: Actually, I'm right. According to this and this, it was invented for an immobile QB, as well as to preserve a good running game while giving the QB an easy drop back.

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The option is just one of the wonderful things made easier by the pistol, but I'm almost certain that it wasn't invented with that sole purpose in mind. Historically, the pistol was also been used by QBs struggling with mobility. For example, the Steelers used it while Ben was battling an ankle injury.

 

And regardless of what you think it was invented for, it would still help us out in this situation.

 

EDIT: Actually, I'm right. According to this and this, it was invented for an immobile QB, as well as to preserve a good running game while giving the QB an easy drop back.

dude I was being 100% sarcastic and I thought it was blatantly obvious lol

 

please note: "kaepernickle" lol

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dude I was being 100% sarcastic and I thought it was blatantly obvious lol

 

please note: "kaepernickle" lol

 

Flacco topics are serious business.

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Give everyone some slack. It's the offseason, we have to talk about SOMETHING. :P

 

Personally I'm excited about the new offence, but I'm reserving judgement until at least the preseason.

Oh no doubt, I'm excited as well. I think i wanted those practice highlights like 10 times each. I can't wait to see this offense with my own eyes because i don't like taking someone else's opinion without seeing it.

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dude I was being 100% sarcastic and I thought it was blatantly obvious lol

 

please note: "kaepernickle" lol

My bad brotha. Was tired as all hell and somehow didn't notice that

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So I read this on the BaltimoreSun website:

 

"Just a hunch here, but it seems as though quarterback Joe Flacco is not having fun, not like a year ago. Maybe it's because he has to learn a new offense and has new assistant coaches around him again.

I also think Jersey Joe is struggling a little bit with the foot work in dropping back because his passes have been off. In these OTAs, the foot work is stressed more than just about anything else."

 

I know, it's Mike Preston, but Joe has been picked off a couple of times and some have pointed out, that he looked "off" in recent practices. So maybe, that's something to worry about? I dunno, I really want Joe to improve from last season and pre-season is still so far away. -_- 

 

I think it should be expected for Flacco to in counter some  problems  because this  is a totally new offensive system .He's being asked to do new things and  there are going to be some grow pains. I'm pretty sure we are going to notice some mess ups here and there during the early part of the regular season.

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As for Kubiak... I wasn't too impressed with their passing game in Houston.  Definitely wasn't impressed by Schaub.  And he had Andre Johnson.

I admit the running games typically looked good in Houston.  But are the Ravens really built for that?  They've been spending the last few years trying so hard to build a passing offense because that's typically how you win games in the NFL's new rules.  At least until late playoffs and Super Bowl time.

So I can see the Ravens running more.  And playing more ball-control.  I'm not sure I understand how throwing less will help Flacco "improve" as far as stats go.  It might help cut down on chances for mistakes.  But it also leaves less opportunity to make plays.

And also, this will be Flacco's first time learning a completely new playbook with terminology and all... since his rookie season.

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As for Kubiak... I wasn't too impressed with their passing game in Houston.  Definitely wasn't impressed by Schaub.  And he had Andre Johnson.

I admit the running games typically looked good in Houston.  But are the Ravens really built for that?  They've been spending the last few years trying so hard to build a passing offense because that's typically how you win games in the NFL's new rules.  At least until late playoffs and Super Bowl time.

So I can see the Ravens running more.  And playing more ball-control.  I'm not sure I understand how throwing less will help Flacco "improve" as far as stats go.  It might help cut down on chances for mistakes.  But it also leaves less opportunity to make plays.

And also, this will be Flacco's first time learning a completely new playbook with terminology and all... since his rookie season.

 

Joe Flacco passed  the ball 614 times last year which is a career high for him but I don't think The Ravens want to have him pass the ball that much and the only reason why he passed the ball so often last year was because our running game was terrible. A good running game is a  quarterback friend and I see nothing wrong with Flacco passing the ball  544 times like Matt Shaub did in 2012 in which his former team were ranked 11th in passing that year . I can only imagine what he can do with  better a quarterback in Joe Flacco with loads of  solid  receivers such as Owen Daniels, Torrey Smith, Steve Smith, Jacoby Jones, Marlon Brown, Dennis Pitta, and etc. I do expect growing pains but hey maybe Gary Kubiak will have  Flacco  pass the ball more than we think.

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It's not like he's built like Russel Wilson. Joe's 6foot6, so it's no surprise he isn't exactly nimble in the pocket. I agree, that Joe won't have a problem with rolling out of the pocket, but I bet it will take Joe some time to get used the footwork neccasry to pull of the WO (I still take the durablity, that Joe's big body brings over in-pocket-mobility, though).

 

I've got faith in Joe, but that is bothering me a little. I hope he gets over that, because I don't want to see any INTs or passes, that are a little short (according to russelstreet, anyway) in real games.

Wait and see, I guess. Pre-season starts in 2 months. Hopefully that's enough time for Joe to adjust.

Joe ain't nimble at all, but he does share something with fellow giant Big Ben. He has great pocket awareness. Joe feels the biltz well most the time and can escape pretty well.

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As for Kubiak... I wasn't too impressed with their passing game in Houston.  Definitely wasn't impressed by Schaub.  And he had Andre Johnson.

I admit the running games typically looked good in Houston.  But are the Ravens really built for that?  They've been spending the last few years trying so hard to build a passing offense because that's typically how you win games in the NFL's new rules.  At least until late playoffs and Super Bowl time.

So I can see the Ravens running more.  And playing more ball-control.  I'm not sure I understand how throwing less will help Flacco "improve" as far as stats go.  It might help cut down on chances for mistakes.  But it also leaves less opportunity to make plays.

And also, this will be Flacco's first time learning a completely new playbook with terminology and all... since his rookie season.

 

You do know that he coached a number one passing game with SCHAUB as his QB, right?

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As for Kubiak... I wasn't too impressed with their passing game in Houston.  Definitely wasn't impressed by Schaub.  And he had Andre Johnson.

I admit the running games typically looked good in Houston.  But are the Ravens really built for that?  They've been spending the last few years trying so hard to build a passing offense because that's typically how you win games in the NFL's new rules.  At least until late playoffs and Super Bowl time.

So I can see the Ravens running more.  And playing more ball-control.  I'm not sure I understand how throwing less will help Flacco "improve" as far as stats go.  It might help cut down on chances for mistakes.  But it also leaves less opportunity to make plays.

And also, this will be Flacco's first time learning a completely new playbook with terminology and all... since his rookie season.

I don't know of many other offenses that are more explosively balanced then Kubiak's. I'm definitely interested in hearing why you have been so unimpressed with his passing offense.

The biggest misconception about Kubiak's offense is that he runs more than pass imo. Just not true. As i mentioned before, this offense is explosively balanced. The numbers show that Kubes runs the ball about 30 times while passing about 35. 35 attempts is more then enough for Flacco go put up great numbers. 2010 was probably the best indicator of what Kubes wants from this offense production wise and that year was 35:26 pass to run pre game.

Over the last 3 seasons Flacco has averaged exactly 35 attempts pre game and those numbers were inflated by his 600+ attempts last season. So Flacco will actually be asked to pass more, not less. Also numbers wise Schaub has out performed Flacco, so there shouldn't be an issue with Flacco improving his numbers.

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Joe Flacco passed  the ball 614 times last year which is a career high for him but I don't think The Ravens want to have him pass the ball that much and the only reason why he passed the ball so often last year was because our running game was terrible. A good running game is a  quarterback friend and I see nothing wrong with Flacco passing the ball  544 times like Matt Shaub did in 2012 in which his former team were ranked 11th in passing that year . I can only imagine what he can do with  better a quarterback in Joe Flacco with loads of  solid  receivers such as Owen Daniels, Torrey Smith, Steve Smith, Jacoby Jones, Marlon Brown, Dennis Pitta, and etc. I do expect growing pains but hey maybe Gary Kubiak will have  Flacco  pass the ball more than we think.

So many people have complained about Ozzie not adding to the offense, but i really think this offense is really stacked, especially for the system we are running. Kubes has so many options and for a creative guy like him, that's deadly. I think this is the perfect marriage between Kubes and the Ravens. I just hope it comes together quickly avg and builds that trust early. I think the oline is a strength this year. Imo we are upgraded at every position because of addition or health except LT and Monroe will be even better in year two. This will lead to the running game being much stronger andthat will lead to the play action moving the LBs and Safeties creating a lot of space for the pass game.

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You do know that he coached a number one passing game with SCHAUB as his QB, right?

 

Guys like Schaub and Vick are the reason stats are so stupid for evaluating a player. Half the board thought Schaub was as good or better than Flacco a couple years ago; and thought Vick was 2x the player Flacco was. Funny how that has worked out...

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Guys like Schaub and Vick are the reason stats are so stupid for evaluating a player. Half the board thought Schaub was as good or better than Flacco a couple years ago; and thought Vick was 2x the player Flacco was. Funny how that has worked out...

Yea what ever happened to those thoughts?

I guess now we can prepare to hear how just like the RB position, Kubiak can make any QB look like a pro bowler just look at what he's done with guys like Schuab and Flacco.

I remember Sapp saying Freeman was head and shoulders better then Flacco and would actually win MVP. I remember Casserly saying Blaine Gabbert was much better then Flacco as a rookie. I remember Dukes saying Flacco and Sanchez were the same exact player. Thinking back to all the foolish things said about Flacco is actually fun.

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i'm looking forward to see how good Gary Kubiak and Flacco can work together but like I was  saying on another Ravens site I am concerned about how well Flacco will be able to work with his new quarterback coach Rick Dennison. I have my concerns  because Dennison doesn't have any previous history of coaching quarterbacks and has mainly been offensive line coach for most of his career.

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Yea what ever happened to those thoughts?

I guess now we can prepare to hear how just like the RB position, Kubiak can make any QB look like a pro bowler just look at what he's done with guys like Schuab and Flacco.

I remember Sapp saying Freeman was head and shoulders better then Flacco and would actually win MVP. I remember Casserly saying Blaine Gabbert was much better then Flacco as a rookie. I remember Dukes saying Flacco and Sanchez were the same exact player. Thinking back to all the foolish things said about Flacco is actually fun.

Critics are like STDs. You have to keep treating them or they'll come back. Even after you teat them, they'll still be a little sore. Last year we gave them time to grow back.

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Critics are like STDs. You have to keep treating them or they'll come back. Even after you teat them, they'll still be a little sore. Last year we gave them time to grow back.

Lol i agree. Last year was so bad but may have been the best thing for us. Without last year we probably don't have Kubes as our coach. Even if Caldwell left we'd probably just promote Hos.

I think the few years will really say a lot about the critics of Flacco. In this offense he'll put up great numbers to go along with his normal success of winning games. Right now critics have a decent reason not to like Joe, although it's often over the top, there is still good reason to have pause towards Joe. He's nowhere as consistent as he could be. I strongly feel it was the system and glad we're moving to a system that allows him to showcase his full potential. It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say once Joe starts putting up the numbers as well.

i'm looking forward to see how good Gary Kubiak and Flacco can work together but like I was  saying on another Ravens site I am concerned about how well Flacco will be able to work with his new quarterback coach Rick Dennison. I have my concerns  because Dennison doesn't have any previous history of coaching quarterbacks and has mainly been offensive line coach for most of his career.

I don't think it'll be an issue because Kubes will be in Joe's ear more then anyone. Plus Joe is in learn mode this year so he'll be open to Denison because he knows the system. I really think the purpose of Dennison at QB coach is to really allow him and Flacco to build a relationship so if Kubes does leave next year, Rick is the OC in waiting and will already have that close relationship with Joe.

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I don't think it'll be an issue because Kubes will be in Joe's ear more then anyone. Plus Joe is in learn mode this year so he'll be open to Denison because he knows the system. I really think the purpose of Dennison at QB coach is to really allow him and Flacco to build a relationship so if Kubes does leave next year, Rick is the OC in waiting and will already have that close relationship with Joe.

I just hope Dennison doesn't take off with Kubiak. Or if he does, we know what we're doing with these college coaches.

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Flacco is not elite, but he can make things happen when he needs to. He doesn't have the football IQ to put up numbers like peyton and arod

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