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Torrey Smith

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i am a Torrey Smith fan, but lets keep this short an to the point. Lets look at let say Antonio Bryant when he came in the league all he did was catch screens and deep routes now he's transformed into a special all around player who can do more than just catch screens and deep passes. That's what Torrey Smith needs he gotta work on his route running and become more of a polished receiver instead of only being able to catch deeps passes. I agree he is a good player but i think he got 1000 yards by default because we didn't have another receiver to throw to. Again i do think he's capable of being a number one receiver but he has to take the next step an learn how to get open on short routes. and work on his route running.

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I think you're right.  That was his problem at MD, and in his draft profile.  They claimed that his routes weren't crisp.  With a new WR coach, maybe we'll see some changes in him.

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I thought he made a lot of improvement in his route running and YAC. He can be a lot better though. Like Mom Gene said, I hope the new WR coach helps him develop more.

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exactly i feel like if teams take away his deep routes than he disappear from the game...that's what happen alot last year after the deep game was taken away we didn't have no one to throw to cause he dosent know how to get open an doesnt run good routes.

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I don't think he's calling his own plays or routes. He's used to open stuff up for guys underneath on a lot of plays I think.

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I'm really excited about the potential Torrey Smith has. He has real #1 potential, and I think that may very well shine this year with Engram as his new WR coach and an unmentioned addition that could really benefit Torrey--Smith Sr.

 

It's true that Hostler wasn't a very good WR coach. Hell, IMO, he wasn't even average. I was calling for his head for years, at least since 2010. I'm so happy to not see him here anymore. I think he held Torrey back. I recall an article I read where Hostler stated he didn't think Torrey would amount to much and he surprised him. That's not very good, IMO. I'd like the coaches to have more confidence in the players than that.

 

As for Steve Smith Sr, I think his game is something Torrey could emulate more than Anquan's, which is why I really like the signing. Smith will really teach Torrey a lot, IMO, and I think he could very well help Torrey take the next step in his development. I know people will say Torrey didn't have a good year, but I think he did have a good year last year. Sure, he needed to secure more of his catches, but he did display an evolving route tree by working some short routes into his repertoire.

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In 2012, Torrey was really only a deep threat, and with Joe at the helm, that worked really well.  Last year he definitely ran far more varied routes with some success, but with the offense being lackluster as a whole, I don't think it would have worked either way.

 

I think this year we'll see a continuation of this trend.  Torrey is a great deep threat, and that gives him the ability to shake off his defender and get open in the middle of the field.  There were quite a few plays last year where he showed his strength getting some quality YAC.  With Kubiak at OC, I think Torrey is going to excel both down the field as a deep threat, and in the middle of the field w/ quality route running.

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He's progressing like he should and I'm sure he works hard. From first yr to second he worked on catching with his hands vs trapping the ball. Last year he ran more routes than the yr before but at the end of the day we didn't have anyone pulling attention away from Torrey so defenses were able to bracket him.

He will work on other routes and his hands again but now we should also have better play calling so his route won't be as predictable

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To be fair our offensive staff has been below average for a long time. Here's hoping we improved in this regard this offseason.

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The best quality Torrey has is his work ethic and positive attitude, he could definitely step his game up in the next year or 2 into something much better than what we see now. He wont be a dominant number 1 but he could still put up #1 stats and give us a good reliability factor even though in a lot of ways he already has. He definitely has to get stronger and more physical and continue to work on his route running...but I think he has shown some steady improvement over the first 3 seasons after his god awful pre season debut and has some room left for improvement. I have a lot of hope for Torrey and hope he gets a contract extension with us.

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You have to consider the offense he's been in since he got to Baltimore. Cam Cameron ran Torrey on Go Routes all day long because that's what Cam does, and the offense never changed under Caldwell. Torrey has progressed every year, and his hands have gotten 100% better. Under a Kubiak offense, I'am excited for his future. 

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Not disagreeing at all with the OP's sentiment but Bobby Engram will have Torrey balling this year on that full route tree, wait and see (as well as all of our other young receivers). So much better to have a wide receivers coach who was, you know actually a wide receiver who was a good route runner, as opposed to Hostler who obviously never was.

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i agree with you all, i super excited to see him develop more. I'm just hoping like everyone else that he takes the next step..He has to master his route running an being able to get open in short routes.....i hoping engram can teach that with all our your WR's. I see other teams young WR developing so i know our can as well. I was really hoping Deonte Thompson would develop into something Special we be will see.

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Anyone who's been around here since before Smith was drafted, I'm sure remembers how much I hated us drafting him. As a matter of fact, I distinctly said all he did was catch fly routes or short screens and was extremely limited in his route tree.

 

Torrey proved me wrong, and I admitted to that in my own thread after his rookie season (or during it, I can't remember). I can say that he was very much a deep threat guy his rookie year, but he didn't need to do much more than that his rookie year when he had Anquan to tear it up underneath. Remember, we traded for Lee Evans that year to really play the role that Torrey ended up playing in the offense.

 

Honestly, I think it was evident last season that Torrey made some real strides in his routes. He wasn't just running fly routes, there were quite a few slants (finally), drags, and so on. Sure, they weren't those beautiful come backs that Mason ran for years here, but you can't deny Smith made some real improvement. He's still young, and still learning. I think he's still reaching his full potential and entering his prime. I've always admired (which I said this even when I was ripping everything else about him apart when we drafted him) his dedication to bettering himself and willingness to learn, and that was very evident to me last year.

 

Three years later, and I still very much believe in Torrey's full potential and am a huge fan of his.

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Anyone who's been around here since before Smith was drafted, I'm sure remembers how much I hated us drafting him. As a matter of fact, I distinctly said all he did was catch fly routes or short screens and was extremely limited in his route tree.

Torrey proved me wrong, and I admitted to that in my own thread after his rookie season (or during it, I can't remember). I can say that he was very much a deep threat guy his rookie year, but he didn't need to do much more than that his rookie year when he had Anquan to tear it up underneath. Remember, we traded for Lee Evans that year to really play the role that Torrey ended up playing in the offense.

Honestly, I think it was evident last season that Torrey made some real strides in his routes. He wasn't just running fly routes, there were quite a few slants (finally), drags, and so on. Sure, they weren't those beautiful come backs that Mason ran for years here, but you can't deny Smith made some real improvement. He's still young, and still learning. I think he's still reaching his full potential and entering his prime. I've always admired (which I said this even when I was ripping everything else about him apart when we drafted him) his dedication to bettering himself and willingness to learn, and that was very evident to me last year.

Three years later, and I still very much believe in Torrey's full potential and am a huge fan of his.

I wouldn't say he made significant strides. Boldin's departure thrust Torrey into a role in which he had to do more than run a fly or catch a screen. He did his best in that new role, that's about all we can say about that...other than he didn't run crisp routes or show the ability to get open without relying on his speed.

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I wouldn't say he made significant strides. Boldin's departure thrust Torrey into a role in which he had to do more than run a fly or catch a screen. He did his best in that new role, that's about all we can say about that...other than he didn't run crisp routes or show the ability to get open without relying on his speed.

 

I'm not saying he did turn into a reliable route runner, but no matter what he's going to use his speed to get open. That's his natural skill set, just like Anquan was never quick and used his routes and physicality to get open. All I'm saying is Torrey showed some improvement in his routes, not that he approached some level of channeling Boldin or Mason. Not that he made some huge step towards mastering the art of the route tree. After all, he came into the NFL behind the learning curve since he had been running the same sort of go-or-screen sort of gameplan during his time at Maryland also.

 

Had Boldin not been around in Smith's first two seasons, I don't think he'd see any sort of the success he had last year with anything other than just flies and screens. But it's also like I said in that Smith is still young, and is a hard worker, I see him getting more adept at running cleaner routes, even though I think no matter how good they get, he'll always depend on his speed first.

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I believe Torrey will have a 1,300+ season this year. We had an offensive scheme in place last season that used Torrey's speed to our disadvantage and an offensive line that never gave the 5 and 7 step drop-back a chance. We forced teams to take away the top but didn't have anyone underneath to exploit it. With Kubiak you're going to see Torrey used in a lot of new ways, more efficient ways, which should result in Joe connecting with him on a plethora of big plays, especially with all the well-designed play action fakes Gary implements. 

 

This offense is going to force defenses to play honestly instead of always stacking the box and scheming Torrey out of the play. Joe Flacco was sacked 48 times last year and Torrey still managed to put up 1,128 yards on only 65 receptions.. Imagine if the O-line afforded Joe 10 extra passes to Torrey, What would that have done to his stats last year? 100+ more yards and a few more TDs would've pushed Torrey into Pro Bowl consideration...

 

I believe Kubiak's play calling will immediately elevate the level of play from our stars. If the offensive line gets coordinated properly this is going to be an extremely tough team to beat on both sides of the ball. Expect Ray Rice to get back to form, Flacco to finally exceed 4,000 yds through the air and Pitta and Torrey to be in contention for a roster spot in the Pro Bowl this year. 

 

There's more to getting open then just route running. The right play has to be called but more importantly the timing of when it's called - which always seemed to be out of sync last year. Torrey should be a top 3 WR in the AFC this season. Assuming we don't acquire Andre Johnson ;)

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Not Joe bashing, but the accuracy of the QB is an issue. I've seen Joe just completely miss an open Torrey. His numbers and contributions to the team and its success would be improved b/c of that, IMO...Along with play-calling.

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Not Joe bashing, but the accuracy of the QB is an issue. I've seen Joe just completely miss an open Torrey. His numbers and contributions to the team and its success would be improved b/c of that, IMO...Along with play-calling.

I agree somewhat. The accuracy on the deep balls was inconsistent, which did Torrey no favors at all. But a huge part of that comes back to the OL...we know what Joe can do if you give him a half decent pocket.

But it's also not like Joe was all over the place on short or intermediate passes, either. His accuracy was fine then. I think it would be fair to question some of the decisions Joe made, like forcing it to Torrey even when he was covered like a wet blanket, that didn't help Torrey's stats either.

But really, I don't want to blame Joe for that, even though it would be fair to do so. You can only throw away so many passes, take so many sacks each game before you feel you need to make something happen.

Anyway, as Ravens fans, let's all collectively try to erase 2013 from our memories

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I believe Torrey will have a 1,300+ season this year. We had an offensive scheme in place last season that used Torrey's speed to our disadvantage and an offensive line that never gave the 5 and 7 step drop-back a chance. We forced teams to take away the top but didn't have anyone underneath to exploit it. With Kubiak you're going to see Torrey used in a lot of new ways, more efficient ways, which should result in Joe connecting with him on a plethora of big time plays this year, especially with all the well-designed play action fakes Gary implements.

This new offense is going to force defenses to truly play honest instead of always just stacking the box and scheming Torrey out of the play. Joe Flacco was sacked 48 times last year and Torrey still managed to put up 1,128 yards on only 65 receptions.. Imagine if the O-line afforded Joe with 10 more passes to Torrey, What would that have done to his stats last year? 100+ more yards and a few more TDs would've pushed Torrey into Pro Bowl consideration...

I believe Kubiak's play calling will immediately elevate the level of play from our stars. If the offensive line gets coordinated properly this is going to be an extremely tough team to beat on both sides of the ball. Expect Ray Rice to get back to form, Flacco to finally exceed 4,000 yds through the air and Pitta and Torrey to be in contention for a roster spot in the Pro Bowl this year.

There's more to getting open then just route running. The right play has to be called but more importantly the timing of when it's called, which always seemed to be out of sync last year...Torrey should be a top 3 WR in the AFC this season. Assuming we don't acquire Andre Johnson ;)

1300 yards would not surprise me at all --- if the OL performs adequately.

then again, if everyone does their jobs on offense, I think that nobody will put up huge stats. Assuming good health, and that S Smith and Daniels play well for us, we will be spreading the ball a ton, and will have a lot of guys with good numbers....so guys will get less opportunities individually, they absolutely must make the most of each opportunity they get if they want to stand out

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1300 yards would not surprise me at all --- if the OL performs adequately.

then again, if everyone does their jobs on offense, I think that nobody will put up huge stats. Assuming good health, and that S Smith and Daniels play well for us, we will be spreading the ball a ton, and will have a lot of guys with good numbers....so guys will get less opportunities individually, they absolutely must make the most of each opportunity they get if they want to stand out

 

The thing with Gary's offense is it creates mismatches down field via the run. It's not really a spread attack. Defenses have to commit to stopping the RB first and foremost, which in turn allows speed to get behind them. Enter Torrey. Pitta will become the possession WR/TE over the middle drawing the attention of linebackers away from Steve, who will garner plenty of attention on the intermediate routes forcing safeties to pick their poison. This kind of attack will open up the field for Torrey in ways that he's not accustomed to seeing.

 

Before teams would double Torrey or keep a safety over the top, roll cover to his side and live with the other Wr's having to beat them. Now they have to play Torrey straight up or risk being picked apart. This is going to cause a lot of friendly mismatches deep and Joe and Torrey already speak the same language when it comes to the deep ball..

 

Also, some of Gary's play action fakes will leave Torrey open by 15-20 yards at a time - give him that kind of field to work with and no one is catching him, which = TDs. It puts a lot of pressure on secondaries to adjust and stay true to their assignments. No more cheating on Torrey's coverage. The other part to Gary's scheme - and really one of the most important, is the motion. Torrey's speed coming off the motion is going to cause a lot of headaches for defenses this year. If we start spreading the ball around it means the o-line is still having growing pains and the run game isn't where we expected it to be.

 

Mind you Torrey reached 1,100+ yds on 65 receptions. Or in other words 4 catches a game with an average of 17.3 yds per catch. Add just 1 more catch per game and Torrey's number inflate to 1,405 yards. Add into the mix a balanced attack which allows Torrey to see less coverage and you have yourself the makings of a Pro Bowl Wr.  

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What I'd like to see the most is a major increase in the number of midrange completions.  There just isn't that many opportunities to burn a defense long during a game.  The short passes will go to Smith Sr., Pitta, Owens, Rice, and Juice, et. al.  It's pretty obvious that when JJ comes on the field that they are sending the 2 wides longs.  We need to get away from predictability and back to burning them with the unexpected.  Keep the defenses guessing.  No one was surprised when the Ravens took the field last season.  They started to read Flacco's passes better and jump routes more often resulting in more turnovers.  Sacks must decrease to buy time for the receivers to get open on the long plays but you can dink and dunk all day over a blitz package.

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Prediction: Torrey stays the same yard wise (1,100-1,200 ish yards) but pulls in around 8 TDs. 

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Prediction: Torrey stays the same yard wise (1,100-1,200 ish yards) but pulls in around 8 TDs.

This I could see..

I don't see his yards going too much higher this year.

He's going to be opponents number one threat as rice was for past few years. He'll get a ton of attention which means I think a healthy pitta will have a monster year in kubiak's offense.

Especially if oline is halfway decent

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I had some free time to kill so.....

 

WRs that will make the roster are:

 

1. Torrey Smith 

2. Steve Smith 

3. Jacoby Jones

4. Marlon Brown

5. Michael Campanaro - is a developmental WR for long term plans. It's going to be hard for another WR to supplant him. 

-----------------------------

6. I believe we'll wind up carrying 6 wideouts on the roster this year. (just a hunch) The 6th Wr still being on another team... ;)

 

If you breakdown each WR:

 

Torrey Smith - #1 WR, in the sense that defenses will spend more time focusing on him out of fear of getting beat deep. His role is to stretch the field and present a constant vertical threat to keep safeties out of the box.

 

Steve Smith - #2 WR, but will also be moved around in the slot. Provides an outlet to Joe as a possession WR but not the #1 target per se.

 

Marlon Brown - #3a WR, is a mismatch slot receiver on 3rd down and a #1 / #2 WR in the Redzone. Will continue to grow as developmental #2 and spell (interchange with) Steve Smith as the X receiver.

 

Jacoby Jones - #3b WR, is a situational 3rd wideout and backup #2, who's role is to spread the defense vertically and provide a big play presence.

 

Michael Campanaro - has to earn his keep but will have opportunities to get on the field as a punt/kick returner. Will be developed as a slot WR for the future and will basically be red-shirted his freshmen season.

 

What we're still missing is a big, physical play-maker after the catch, who can be a consistent go-to option on 3rd down. It's widely believed that Steve Smith will assume that role but keep in mind he's 35 yrs old, isn't as quick as he once was and has lost about 2 steps. If we get a true #1 (i.e. Andre Johnson), S. Smith would move from the X to the Y and instantly see less playing time, which would prolong his career. Torrey would alternate from the Z to the X and Andre would become the #1 WR. However, with that lineup, we would probably play Torrey more often as the motion (Z) and keep Andre fixated on the right side as the X.

 

For those that don't understand what X,Y,Z mean:

 

X - WR, always lines up on the line of scrimmage. He's usually split out furthest from the offensive line, which is where we get the term "split end" and is not allowed to come in motion. This is normally your #2 WR (more physical, stronger due to the press-man he normally sees). He is fixated until the snap. X usually aligns on the left side of the formation but isn't limited to either side.

 

Y - WR, is the "slot" receiver or the player aligned closest/tightest to the offensive line aka "tight end". Depending on which side of the formation he aligns usually determines whether or not he plays "on" the line of scrimmage or "off". When between the X-receiver and the offensive line he always plays off. When aligned between the offensive line and the Z-receiver, he usually plays on the line of scrimmage (but not always).

 

Z - WR, is similar to the X-receiver, in the sense that he too typically "splits" wide from the offensive line, but unlike the "split end" the Z-receiver (aka the flanker) aligns 1-2 yards off the the line of scrimmage and is allowed to be motioned from side-to-side. The #1 WR is typically the Z receiver in most schemes because of the extra space he has to work with (being a yard back from the line). His speed and athleticism combined with the extra spacing between his defender creates a better opportunity to beat his man and make a play. Usually the faster, smaller receivers play this role.

 

H-Back, is really just a more athletic version of a TE/FB that plays a similar role but aligns behind the TE. (He's consider a back because he's "set-back" from the line of scrimmage, or in the "backfield"... (Quarterback, Fullback, Running Back)

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Torrey-X------------------------------------Monroe, Osemele, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner, Pitta-Y

---------------------Steve-Y----------------------------------------Flacco-----------------------------------------------------Andre-Z

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Rice

 

 

 

Andre-X------------------------------------- Monroe, Osemele, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner, Pitta-Y

--------------Torrey-Z-----------------------------------------------Flacco-------------------------------Juice-H

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Rice

 

 

Having a true #1 WR would instantly elevate Torrey's game to a entirely new level, a Pro Bowl level. It would turn him into a weapon like no other team has. A deadly weapon, a game breaker, it would completely change the dynamic of our offense and make it extremely difficult to defend, Acquiring Andre Johnson would 1.) Give us the best WR duo in the league, 2.) Give us the best WR Trio in the league, 3.) Gives us the best WR corps in the league. That's how special of a move we're about to make...well, i mean how special it would be assuming "we made it" ;)

 

ok, im done. I have no idea where i was going with this post...sometimes typing just soothes the soul. Beer.

Edited by 0_o
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We are not getting Andre. We don't have the cap unless we move Ngata. We won't give up a first rounder.

We are basically done unless someone gets cut

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I won't say we are pretty much done until week 1 lol. We will probably add a couple guys in TC and probably sign a couple post june 1st. As for Andre, I haven't heard anymore talk of the Texans trading him so unless that changes, I wouldn't get too wrapped up into it at this point although I would be intrigued if the Texans start listening to offers.

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I won't say we are pretty much done until week 1 lol. We will probably add a couple guys in TC and probably sign a couple post june 1st. As for Andre, I haven't heard anymore talk of the Texans trading him so unless that changes, I wouldn't get too wrapped up into it at this point although I would be intrigued if the Texans start listening to offers.

I agree with that, but I'd be surprised if anyone we bring in will really shake the roster up beyond competing for depth spots (and I'd be doing cartwheels if we added Andre, but I'd also be stunned into not talking for a week. So if it does happen and I don't post for a while, you have a vague idea of what will have happened...).

 

Although I did choose those words carefully because I know Ozzie has a nose for opportunity - had it occurred to me a year ago I'd have said I'd be surprised if we swapped a 4th and 5th rounder for a franchise LT.

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I agree with that, but I'd be surprised if anyone we bring in will really shake the roster up beyond competing for depth spots (and I'd be doing cartwheels if we added Andre, but I'd also be stunned into not talking for a week. So if it does happen and I don't post for a while, you have a vague idea of what will have happened...).

 

Although I did choose those words carefully because I know Ozzie has a nose for opportunity - had it occurred to me a year ago I'd have said I'd be surprised if we swapped a 4th and 5th rounder for a franchise LT.

 

That is true lol but we generally make a couple moves post June 1st. I could see us getting another CB or going the Winston route. Nothing huge but we could certainly add some competition at a couple positions

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im just hoping he works on getting open, and short and medium range route running. i remember even when we had Boldin some games none of the receivers were getting open and Flacco would have to just forced it to Boldin cause he was good at using his size the make the catch even in traffic...But Flash forward, Torrey still has a little trouble losing corner backs on his route running alone and getting open. Yes He's great when Flacco has time and Torrey runs a go route straight down field,,But what happens when we face teams that blitz a lot and Flacco doesn't have time???? what happens is and it happens every year is Flacco is forced to throw check down passes to Rice cause receivers are not getting open, we can't be satisfied with that all the time, and because of that  we are going 2-3 3 an outs in a quarter cause we cant pick up enough yards....Yes flacco has to be ALOT more accurate which was a disaster last year an he was exposed for not being a accurate QB. .  but we see Flacco use rice alot in the passing game because yes he can catch but also cause Torrey can't lose corners on his routes and thats what kills drives for us. Like i said im a Smith fan but im tired of us going like 2-3 3 and outs in a quarter simply because the receivers can't get open and there no one to pass it to..

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im just hoping he works on getting open, and short and medium range route running. i remember even when we had Boldin some games none of the receivers were getting open and Flacco would have to just forced it to Boldin cause he was good at using his size the make the catch even in traffic...But Flash forward, Torrey still has a little trouble losing corner backs on his route running alone and getting open. Yes He's great when Flacco has time and Torrey runs a go route straight down field,,But what happens when we face teams that blitz a lot and Flacco doesn't have time???? what happens is and it happens every year is Flacco is forced to throw check down passes to Rice cause receivers are not getting open, we can't be satisfied with that all the time, and because of that we are going 2-3 3 an outs in a quarter cause we cant pick up enough yards....Yes flacco has to be ALOT more accurate which was a disaster last year an he was exposed for not being a accurate QB. . but we see Flacco use rice alot in the passing game because yes he can catch but also cause Torrey can't lose corners on his routes and thats what kills drives for us. Like i said im a Smith fan but im tired of us going like 2-3 3 and outs in a quarter simply because the receivers can't get open and there no one to pass it to..

We will see plenty of saavy route running and the ability to seperate in all areas of the field from smith this year, not Torrey but Steve. Hopefully he can pass on some of that knowledge to the younger guys but I fully expect Steve to be joes go to receiver for the next two years.

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If Joe Flacco plays this year like he played in 4 games in 2012, we will be a great team. But, was that the real Flacco or was it an anomaly? Therein lies our fortune, not in who is our #1 receiver....

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I agree somewhat. The accuracy on the deep balls was inconsistent, which did Torrey no favors at all. But a huge part of that comes back to the OL...we know what Joe can do if you give him a half decent pocket.

But it's also not like Joe was all over the place on short or intermediate passes, either. His accuracy was fine then. I think it would be fair to question some of the decisions Joe made, like forcing it to Torrey even when he was covered like a wet blanket, that didn't help Torrey's stats either.

But really, I don't want to blame Joe for that, even though it would be fair to do so. You can only throw away so many passes, take so many sacks each game before you feel you need to make something happen.

Anyway, as Ravens fans, let's all collectively try to erase 2013 from our memories

I hear you and can't disagree with your points. And definitely all about balling up last season and tossing it away. Let's get after it this year!!! GO Blackbirds!!

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If Joe Flacco plays this year like he played in 4 games in 2012, we will be a great team. But, was that the real Flacco or was it an anomaly? Therein lies our fortune, not in who is our #1 receiver....

you want flacco to play like Joe Montana all year?
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Yes please

I think the fans in the forum under estimate how good Flacco's postseason was. It was one of the greatest postseason runs in NFL history. So basically the fate of the ravens relies on Joe Flacco playing at a Hall of Fame level.
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I think the fans in the forum under estimate how good Flacco's postseason was. It was one of the greatest postseason runs in NFL history. So basically the fate of the ravens relies on Joe Flacco playing at a Hall of Fame level.

It was probably the greatest run in history, for sure.

I think people acknowledge that, but simply underestimates what he does on a regular basis. For starters, I don't think he is nearly as inconsistent as people make him out to be. Not even close, when you compare him to other top QBs. I had this convo before, did a bit of research, and found two things -- one, not surprisingly, Rodgers and Manning are nearly inhuman in their week to week consistency. Not productivity, that is something different, but consistency in playing on a high level nearly every single week. That probably doesn't surprise anyone here.

What might surprise people is that those two guys are head and shoulders above every other QB in the league, including Brady, Brees, etc. The surprising part to some here is that Flacco's week to week consistency is right on par with Brady and Brees -- and all three of them are right around the league average.

Flacco's annual production is the model of consistency, in fact it is almost eery.

The only inconsistency I can see is in game. Flacco often has one great half and one crap half. But that's a lot of QBs, and isn't necessarily all about the QB, too many variables come into play.

But understating Flacco seems to have always been the cool thing to do, lol

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Moderator comment:  Topic has been hijacked.  This thread is entitled Torrey Smith, it is not a Joe Flacco thread....  We are not discussing Joe's development or his QB ratings or the fact that he needs to be a better QB. 

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Moderator comment:  Topic has been hijacked.  This thread is entitled Torrey Smith, it is not a Joe Flacco thread....  We are not discussing Joe's development or his QB ratings or the fact that he needs to be a better QB. 

 

Torrey needs to run better routes and cut a little better to gain more separation from the defender.

Edited by The Mom Gene
Changed Flacco to Torrey... :)
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Torrey isn't physical enough to me... He goes down with little contact very often. I still see him being able to catch 60-70 balls and have 1150 yards or so.

As for him having more td's... Not sure on that! Usually RBs get the TD's in Kubiaks system.

Edited by H8R
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I believe Torrey has improved greatly on his route running but unfortunately the system often turned him into a one-trick pony.

Example Torrey was constantly sent out on streaks, deep curls, on the rare occasion he got to run a slant or drag route he caught the ball and gained decent yac. This constantly frustrated me to see him, become a playmaker gain yac. Then never use him in that fashion again.

He can still improve route running, hand-play to create space for a release from the defender.

I truly believe Torrey will flourish, due to opportunities with having pre-snap motions, more play-action passes different route combinations.

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Torrey and Marlon will both improve exponentially this year with having a new WR coach and a player of Steve Smith Sr. around to guide them. I look forward to watching their progress this year. I think all of our receivers (rather TE or WR) will benefit under the new offense. Our running backs will also see more receiving yards. What I am waiting to find out is how well all of them will do with YAC. 

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I don't think he's calling his own plays or routes. He's used to open stuff up for guys underneath on a lot of plays I think.

I agree with you here. Also, with no other receiver options to fear last year and no time for Joe to wait, teams began playing Torrey more aggressively. And with Anquan gone, Dennis out, Jacoby out (for a while), why not shut Torrey down? Regard of what people have said, I have seen no reason to doubt or criticize his route running ability. Like you, I believe his routes are designed to open the underneath. Aside from catching, one could say that's his primary job.

Edited by HoldingCall
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Regard of what people have said, I have seen no reason to doubt or criticize his route running ability. Like you, I believe his routes are designed to open the underneath. Aside from catching, one could say that's his primary job.

 

Over the last couple of seasons, we've heard that our receivers are having trouble getting separation from the defenders far too often. In Torrey's case, he has great long speed and more than enough quickness to be to able separate in theory, yet he too often struggles with separating from defenders, along with the other members of our receiving corps in years past.

 

To me, the only issue you can pinpoint would be his route running. Maybe there were some awful route combinations/plays mixed in there, but route running should be to blame just as often, if not more. That's a key attribute that makes great receivers great: their ability to run crisp routes, separate from defenders and get open.

 

Hopefully with a competent receiver coach for the first time, Torrey, Marlon and the other young guys can work on developing that all-important ability to separate from defenders by running crisp, clean routes.

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Over the last couple of seasons, we've heard that our receivers are having trouble getting separation from the defenders far too often. In Torrey's case, he has great long speed and more than enough quickness to be to able separate in theory, yet he too often struggles with separating from defenders, along with the other members of our receiving corps in years past.

 

To me, the only issue you can pinpoint would be his route running. Maybe there were some awful route combinations/plays mixed in there, but route running should be to blame just as often, if not more. That's a key attribute that makes great receivers great: their ability to run crisp routes, separate from defenders and get open.

 

Hopefully with a competent receiver coach for the first time, Torrey, Marlon and the other young guys can work on developing that all-important ability to separate from defenders by running crisp, clean routes.

 

I heard the same argument and complaint over and over that Boldin couldn't get separation. It was a problem that echoed off this board until the SB run showed a different side. And we know what happen last season in SF, he put up the most yard since before coming to Baltimore. I remind us of that because I believe it's more about timing than anything between Joe and Torrey. In other words, when is the ball arriving at the receiver and where within the catch radius? For one receiver it's perfect, for the next it's a problem. Overlooked chemistry has a lot to do with everything there.

 

I am not saying that Torrey is as good as he can be in his skill set but I read comments that a few agree on and chuckle because it is suddenly viewed as fact. That's OK! It's what the board is for but considering last season and problems of the offense including the back field, OL and the lack of receiving choices all around, I have to disagree about it being a Torrey problem.

 

Joe ran for his life while hoping to see a completed route. Ray Rice and Pierce had trouble getting the ball in hand before getting hit. That was the problem, not route running. 

 

Look, Torrey is Torrey, Joe is Joe, there are things they will do better than others and things not as good as others. It is who they are. We'll be a better team by building and planning around their strengths. Heck, Ray Rice should be faster, Ed Reed should be younger, and I should be taller but I don't want to wait on it. 

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but there is one fact, Torrey Never was a great route runner and its something he MUST work on if he want s to be consider a top receiver, and he can't just be a two trick pony..slants and deep passes...he MUST develope more to his game that is a FACT ..

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but there is one fact, Torrey Never was a great route runner and its something he MUST work on if he want s to be consider a top receiver, and he can't just be a two trick pony..slants and deep passes...he MUST develope more to his game that is a FACT ..

That is a fact? Where is that a fact? I am not trying to be facetious, but I agree with HoldingCall in that just because opinions grow on a board does not make them fact. Torrey was critiqued for not having as much route experience coming out of college, but I would assume with his work ethic that he has been developed into a much better route runner. Of course there is room to grow, but I would say racking up 1k+ yards with no running game, no pass protection, and not a solid/consistent complementary receiver is impressive.

 

I also think Kubiak's system will help him become more of a complete receiver. Will he ever be a top 5 receiver in this league? My guess is no, but top 10-15 would not be a stretch.

 

BTW, re: the two trick pony comment; read this: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1777626-why-torrey-smith-is-a-more-complete-wr-than-you-think

 

Yes, it is Bleacher Report, but it does give 'factual evidence' that Torrey runs more than deep patterns. I believe pictures and graphs and stats more as fact.

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