The Flacco's Next Record To Break

[Tank 92]

Bottom line is, there is no way anyone can convince me that having the ability to make plays with their feet does not increase(s) a QBs value.

 

 

That's a true statement, but it often leads to missed games and a shortened career, especially for smallish QBs.

[ravensdan]

Guys like Newton, Griffin, and Wilson might be runners that are asked to run the ball and score for their teams, but that doesn't exactly mean they're top tier quarterbacks for it. Andrew Luck is the most efficient runner in the entire NFL, but he's not running the ball 100 times a season. Point being, it may add another dimension, but most quarterbacks in the league are not what Michael Vick was with his legs. Remember, Mike Vick had over 1000 yards rushing in a season.

I wouldn't compare Wilson to Newton or griffin or kap. Or Vick. He already understands the mental aspects of the game better than those guys. He runs in a smart way. Not dissimilar to luck or flacco or Rodgers. He just has more quickness and elusiveness than those guys. I don't believe he's reached his potential as a passer yet. Although he is very good now. I don't believe he can make the transcendent throws the last Three I mentioned can. But when you add in his superior elusiveness and smarts when using it he could be just behind or equal to those guys. I'd say after this year I could see him there. He's kind of a superior version of mcnabb

[flynismo]

Then most quarterbacks in the league outside of a select few have increased value

 

Not really, but think of it like this.

Take a garbage QB like Dalton, and now give him Newton / RG 3 / Vick's ability to move. Is he now a better player?

[ravensdan]

Bottom line is, there is no way anyone can convince me that having the ability to make plays with their feet does not increase a QBs value.

Depends on what you mean by that. Rodgers and Flacco and Luck all have the ability to make plays on the move. The ravens in particular took the most advantage of this in the mike high game. Flacco moved all around avoiding pass rushers and making plays downfield.

[ravensdfan]

25 passing touchdowns?  Oh you don't count the rushing Td's. I almost forgot that not a stat for a QB......What was i thinking.

 

Basically they take the place of a RB. Does Flacco get credit for Rice's TDs? That is how the option offense works. Otherwise, they'd be handing the ball off to a RB instead of running.

[Guest RBates]

Bottom line is, there is no way anyone can convince me that having the ability to make plays with their feet does not increase a QBs value.

Wow this coming from FLY ..........You have to be kidding me.   I said this before the young guns came into the league. 

[Guest RBates]

Basically they take the place of a RB. Does Flacco get credit for Rice's TDs? That is how the option offense works. Otherwise, they'd be handing the ball off to a RB instead of running.

Not true.  Alfred Morris still gets his touches.  As does Marshawn lynch  both guys in Carolina and Frank gore.  The read offense is a deceptive offense because every player including the quarterback is involved in the running and passing play.  You don't know which is getting the ball so you have to spy the quarterback and take a man out of your defense. 

 

The designed quarterback run is much different then a goal-line QB sneak. This is why they have hundreds of rushing yards and more than a few touchdowns with their legs. 

[Tank 92]

As we saw last year, the read/option and designed QB runs are already being used less and less. No doubt those types of plays will remain, but will be used sparingly.  It's an idea born in the college game where the opposing D, as a whole, is less physical and the hits are much softer.   

 

There's no doubt the game has gotten faster and the NFL QB must be more agile and athletic than in the past. But it remains that the ideal QB is one that can thrive in the pocket and make plays with his arm. That ain't gonna change. 

 

Sooooo, what is the next record The Flacco will break?      

[BmoreBird22]

I wouldn't compare Wilson to Newton or griffin or kap. Or Vick. He already understands the mental aspects of the game better than those guys. He runs in a smart way. Not dissimilar to luck or flacco or Rodgers. He just has more quickness and elusiveness than those guys. I don't believe he's reached his potential as a passer yet. Although he is very good now. I don't believe he can make the transcendent throws the last Three I mentioned can. But when you add in his superior elusiveness and smarts when using it he could be just behind or equal to those guys. I'd say after this year I could see him there. He's kind of a superior version of mcnabb

No, he's got less of a run first mentality than all the aforementioned guys, but like the aforementioned guys, he still is learning when to run and when to just move around and stand in there to make the pass play. I don't think he'll ever be able to make every single throw like a Flacco, Luck, or Rodgers, but he's smart enough to make the safe throws and keep the ball from getting turned over. He just needs to continue to develop the cerebral aspect of the game.

[BmoreBird22]

Not really, but think of it like this.

Take a garbage QB like Dalton, and now give him Newton / RG 3 / Vick's ability to move. Is he now a better player?

It really depends. I don't think you understand how much it can hurt. Running quarterbacks with an amazing ability to run are far less willing to work through their progressions, usually, and will look to run rather than pass if their first couple of options aren't open. Let's say the fourth option is pretty wide open, but the first two aren't and pressure is coming. Rather than stand in there, one of those quarterbacks is likely to run. Probably won't pick up the yardage that a pass would, and it adds injury risk for your quarterback.

WIth a running ability comes another dimension to reign in and learn an entirely new mental aspect that many quarterbacks don't master. 

[flynismo]

It really depends. I don't think you understand how much it can hurt. Running quarterbacks with an amazing ability to run are far less willing to work through their progressions, usually, and will look to run rather than pass if their first couple of options aren't open. Let's say the fourth option is pretty wide open, but the first two aren't and pressure is coming. Rather than stand in there, one of those quarterbacks is likely to run. Probably won't pick up the yardage that a pass would, and it adds injury risk for your quarterback.

WIth a running ability comes another dimension to reign in and learn an entirely new mental aspect that many quarterbacks don't master. 

 

 

If we are talking hypotheticals and generalities such as the above, then I would say even if it were true that running qbs have a tendency to run first before passing, it's almost irrelevant, since the offense will have been designed for the QB ( see: read option  ).

 

And as for your example, the fourth option (if there even is one) is almost always going to be a checkdown, or in other words, the play has pretty much already broken down by that point. So it's typically going to be a good thing if your QB gets out of the pocket and extends the play or takes off running (in fact, I recall many of us here wishing that Flacco would use his athleticism more often and scramble)

[flynismo]

The designed quarterback run is much different then a goal-line QB sneak.

 

That is what people fail to understand. It's one thing for a play to break down and a QB taking off running. When the play was designed for the QB to run, it is not only much more effective, but also mitigates a lot of the safety concerns.

[flynismo]

As we saw last year, the read/option and designed QB runs are already being used less and less. No doubt those types of plays will remain, but will be used sparingly.  It's an idea born in the college game where the opposing D, as a whole, is less physical and the hits are much softer.   

 

There's no doubt the game has gotten faster and the NFL QB must be more agile and athletic than in the past. But it remains that the ideal QB is one that can thrive in the pocket and make plays with his arm. That ain't gonna change. 

 

Sooooo, what is the next record The Flacco will break?      

 

The most threads picking apart his decision to install toilet paper "underneath" rather than the more conventional "over the top"?

[BmoreBird22]

If we are talking hypotheticals and generalities such as the above, then I would say even if it were true that running qbs have a tendency to run first before passing, it's almost irrelevant, since the offense will have been designed for the QB ( see: read option  ).

 

And as for your example, the fourth option (if there even is one) is almost always going to be a checkdown, or in other words, the play has pretty much already broken down by that point. So it's typically going to be a good thing if your QB gets out of the pocket and extends the play or takes off running (in fact, I recall many of us here wishing that Flacco would use his athleticism more often and scramble)

It was an exaggeration to make a point, but quarterbacks like Kaep and RGIII who use the read option often only have a read or two before they take off running. 

 

Sure, there are designed quarterback runs in that offense, but does that mean every single one, or even two-thirds, are actually designed? No

[BMORE21]

I don't see Flacco breaking anytime of record that requires him throwing the ball, but I do see him getting the most wins

[Tank 92]

The most threads picking apart his decision to install toilet paper "underneath" rather than the more conventional "over the top"?

 

 

[flynismo]

I don't see Flacco breaking anytime of record that requires him throwing the ball, but I do see him getting the most wins

 

I agree; we aren't built like that. Whether or not we think Flacco has the talent to throw for 5,500+ yards is a moot point; we'll never throw the ball enough for him to have the chance to do it anyway.

[ravensdfan]

Not true.  Alfred Morris still gets his touches.  As does Marshawn lynch  both guys in Carolina and Frank gore.  The read offense is a deceptive offense because every player including the quarterback is involved in the running and passing play.  You don't know which is getting the ball so you have to spy the quarterback and take a man out of your defense. 

 

The designed quarterback run is much different then a goal-line QB sneak. This is why they have hundreds of rushing yards and more than a few touchdowns with their legs. 

 

Yes it is a deceptive offense because it gives you another RB option and you still have to defend the pass as well. Still, the QB IS the RB when they choose to take off with the ball. Less mobile QBs are going to hand the ball off to their RBs more often so IMO counting rushing TDs does not prove they are a better QB.

 

Just as mobility adding value does not make them a more talented QB. Value and talent are not the same things. Just as atheticism and talent are not the same things. Mobility only adds value when it is combined with actual passing skills as well - when the QB in question actually stays in the pocket to make throws, can do so accurately and doesn't take off at the drop of a hat.

 

I actually like Wilson a lot - I just don't believe he's shown enough at the QB position to be in the top tier. He's taking advantage of a stellar defense, an excellent running game and not making crucial mistakes. There is a lot to be said for him doing that in his first two years, no doubt. But that doesn't rank him talentwise up there in the top tier yet.

[ravensdfan]

The most threads picking apart his decision to install toilet paper "underneath" rather than the more conventional "over the top"?

 

Well clearly that shows his lack of football knowledge and inability to read defenses.

[Rodgers_To_Nelson]

Hey Raven fans just stopping by to wish you the best in 2014 as the season approaches. Thanks for being classy to us last year when we talked Raven Packer football back in week 5 of last year. You guys have a great football team. Best wishes.

[flynismo]

Hey Raven fans just stopping by to wish you the best in 2014 as the season approaches. Thanks for being classy to us last year when we talked Raven Packer football back in week 5 of last year. You guys have a great football team. Best wishes.

We have to stay classy until we actually beat you guys. lol 

[SecretAgentMan]

We have to stay classy until we actually beat you guys. lol

At least we have that obligation unlike other crappy Bay Area fanbases

[BmoreBird22]

Hey Raven fans just stopping by to wish you the best in 2014 as the season approaches. Thanks for being classy to us last year when we talked Raven Packer football back in week 5 of last year. You guys have a great football team. Best wishes.

Off note, but the Packers and Aaron Rodgers are some of my favorite non Ravens

[1/28/01]

Part hammered and part stoked for 2014, but I think Flacco goes off this year. Big numbers, tons of wins and another SB maybe? Drunk. Yes!

[flynismo]

I'm not greedy. I'll be happy with 3600 yards, 20 TDs ........ and a Super Bowl

[Guest RBates]

Yes it is a deceptive offense because it gives you another RB option and you still have to defend the pass as well. Still, the QB IS the RB when they choose to take off with the ball. Less mobile QBs are going to hand the ball off to their RBs more often so IMO counting rushing TDs does not prove they are a better QB.

 

Just as mobility adding value does not make them a more talented QB. Value and talent are not the same things. Just as atheticism and talent are not the same things. Mobility only adds value when it is combined with actual passing skills as well - when the QB in question actually stays in the pocket to make throws, can do so accurately and doesn't take off at the drop of a hat.

 

I actually like Wilson a lot - I just don't believe he's shown enough at the QB position to be in the top tier. He's taking advantage of a stellar defense, an excellent running game and not making crucial mistakes. There is a lot to be said for him doing that in his first two years, no doubt. But that doesn't rank him talentwise up there in the top tier yet.

This part is well understood.  But in today's league they are throwing the football pretty well. Being a complete athlete behind center is always a better thing because it gives the defense more things they have to account for. 

 

Sorry to say i can't see the Flacco breaking the rushing mark for a QB. However I would like to see him rush for more yards than Boller. 

[Gordo52]

Joe Flacco is 81st in receiving yards in franchise history. 1 yard behind Troy Smith(78th) with 36 receiving yards.

Think he'll break it this season and become the Ravens QB with the most receiving yards of all time?

11 more yards and he'll pass LaQuan Williams who's 76th.

[codizzle]

Part hammered and part stoked for 2014, but I think Flacco goes off this year. Big numbers, tons of wins and another SB maybe? Drunk. Yes!

I was simply gonna ask what kind of scotch you were consuming even before seeing the Drunk. Yes! Part

[flynismo]

A little off topic, but I've always liked Kubiaks "10 different ways to run the same play" approach.

There's an idiom we use in the programming world...simplicity is better than complexity. And that's what Kubiaks approach brings.

[1/28/01]

I was simply gonna ask what kind of scotch you were consuming even before seeing the Drunk. Yes! Part

Twas a "girly" night. Redds Apple Ale. In fact, had a few today. Go Flacco!