Torrey Smith / Andre Johnson Value?

[flynismo]

I googled it and you are right, Andre apparently took less money than he would have gotten on the open market in multiple occasions to stay with Houston

He was talking about 'rumors' that we were possibly trading Torrey.

And who told you that? AJ was never within sniffing distance of hitting the open market, he signed an idiotic contract for a guy of his stature, then complained about it not even halfway through. Houston then gave him more money after he held out.

[gabefergy]

Way to state the obvious. Any player is tradeable for the right price. It's a matter of what that price is.

If your intent was to prove that some guy on the internet came up with the idea that maybe the Ravens would consider listening to offers for Torrey, you succeeded. Bravo!

Nope. You are wrong again. It's not a made up idea no matter how hard you want it to be. It's information coming from the castle.

[52520Andrew]

He was talking about 'rumors' that we were possibly trading Torrey.

 

I was talking about Andre complaining about more money or not. I saw nothing on him complaining about more money

[MTRavensFan]

There's a huge difference between "being willing to listen to offers" and actively shopping a player.

This inside source also said (in that same post) that Castillo and Jacoby were as good as gone.

 

It's not always about the money, as Jacoby, Pitta and Suggs have recently shown. Torrey has said he wants to be here long-term, that this team is like family to him. And he's got leadership intangibles and ties to the community that the organization highly values, I just can't see them giving that up in exchange for an expensive FA, no matter how good.

 

Makes much more sense to give him one more year to try and up his game, then negotiate a contract. Who knows, maybe that strategy might "backfire" the way it did with Flacco.

[flynismo]

Nope. You are wrong again. It's not a made up idea no matter how hard you want it to be. It's information coming from the castle.

Unless I missed something, I haven't read the whole thread yet, the only evidence of that was the link you posted earlier. And that does not qualify as evidence, that is a guy speculating. How do we know that is coming from the castle, other than that guy saying so

[gabefergy]

Unless I missed something, I haven't read the whole thread yet, the only evidence of that was the link you posted earlier. And that does not qualify as evidence, that is a guy speculating. How do we know that is coming from the castle, other than that guy saying so

He has a track record that's well established. He's broken multiple stories/signings etc well before it becomes public.

[Seseau]

I wouldn't trade for Andre Johnson at his age. 

 

I don't care what his production was last year.

 

If you had asked me this about 5 years ago sure but not now.

[flynismo]

He has a track record that's well established. He's broken multiple stories/signings etc well before it becomes public.

Ok, so it's because some guy says so. That's fine. As someone pointed out, he also broke the story about Castillo and Jacoby being as good as gone in the same post....we have no evidence that it came from the castle.

 

 For the record, who is this guy? I assume he is a reporter or something since you said he broke stories in the past.

[flynismo]

I was talking about Andre complaining about more money or not. I saw nothing on him complaining about more money

His uncle made comments publicly -- his uncle was also his agent -- and then AJ claimed it didn't come from him, his uncle said things of his own accord. Although I personally do not believe it, I have nothing solid to prove otherwise, so we have to take him at his word on that.....but considering how AJ likes to go to the media with his problems, I'm sure you can understand my skepticism.

At any rate, demanding more money then holding out is at the very least "complaining" about it, whether or not his uncles words came from him.

 

And reportedly, he was denied when he yet again demanded more money last year.

[flynismo]

It was actually signed in 2010 it was a contract extension that amounted to about $9M or $10M per year after he put up a crap ton of production and was the top WR in the NFL. When you look at Megatron who got $150M 2 years after AJ signed his and Larry Fitzgerald who got $130M in 2011 its microscopic in comparison.

Yes, that is correct, the extension was signed in 2010. My problem with him is his constant clamoring for money a couple years after signing a contract. It is rather annoying. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to put his name on the dotted line.

[flynismo]

Anyway, I think I've derailed the thread enough and made my opinions clear, so in recap: No way we trade for AJ

[Ravenseconbeast]

Nope. Andre can retire. I don't want a guy pondering retirement on a decline w/ a +10m cap

[MTRavensFan]

Yes, that is correct, the extension was signed in 2010. My problem with him is his constant clamoring for money a couple years after signing a contract. It is rather annoying. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to put his name on the dotted line.

Yeah, that kind of negotiating your contract in the media was hard enough to tolerate from Ed Reed.

[JoeyFlex5]

wow. the trolling is unreal. unless this guy is just.. completely out of his mind.

theres no debate that torrey is elite, he clearly isn't, never will be, an elite receiver is a very rare thing.

doesn't mean its worth trading such a high character, local product, who is a very hard worker, big community guy, and clear cut leader and very respected voice in the locker room, who isn't even in his prime yet.

outrageous idea.

[flynismo]

Yeah, that kind of negotiating your contract in the media was hard enough to tolerate from Ed Reed.

 

Yeah, tolerate is the right word for it. I remember quite a few fans being rubbed the wrong way with the way Ed handled himself in the media

[RavensNation14]

Don't know where else to talk about this, but I'm interested to see if Jerry Rice Jr. is going to at least be P-squad by us. 

[ravensdfan]

Makes much more sense to give him one more year to try and up his game, then negotiate a contract. Who knows, maybe that strategy might "backfire" the way it did with Flacco.

 

And we'll all be like "pay the man" and then complain about his contract stopping us from signing guys the next season

 

I'm all for that though!!! Bring on the backfire!

[Tru11]

torrey smith will be a raven for many years to come.

[PurpleCorsair]

For the record, through the first 3 years of Torrey and Andre's respective careers, their stats are nearly identical.

[RavensDE]

Do you mean Kubiak? I can see that you are opposed to signing Johnson, however this is a weak argument, because the fact is that this coach that he "believed in" is now with the Ravens. Wouldn't that be a reason for him to come here?

The biggest obstacle here is obviously money. I believe we have around $6 mil left in cap space, and we haven't even signed all our draft picks yet.

 You got me all wrong.  I'd love to get him.  He's great and could really help us.  Unless he's been cut though I don't see Andre having the ability to say "I want to go to the Ravens" and I don't see Oz paying very much (picks) for a player in decline, however great he may be.  

 

I love the guy I just don't think we get him.

[flynismo]

For the record, through the first 3 years of Torrey and Andre's respective careers, their stats are nearly identical.

AJ also struggled with drops at times early on, although probably not as badly as Torrey. That said, it's pretty safe to say Torrey will never be the player AJ is/was

[gabefergy]

For the record, through the first 3 years of Torrey and Andre's respective careers, their stats are nearly identical.

Andre Johnson had David Carr throwing him the ball.

[flynismo]

Andre Johnson had David Carr throwing him the ball.

I actually liked Carr. I feel he never had a real chance to succeed given that OL and not much else other than AJ to throw the ball to.

 

I think he would have been another Eli kinda player on a better team

[Bltravens]

First off, you are assuming that Andre is about to fall of a cliff. He's been one of the most productive WRs in the NFL for the past 2 years. He has several good years left. I would take Johnson over Torrey any day of the week. He's one of the best WRs to ever play in the NFL,  while Torrey is a fast dude who is not a complete player. 

 

Your second point is a stronger argument for why Torrey will likely resign, but we let Ellerbe go when we had no one to replace him. The only player behind Kruger was a Upshaw, who had shown nothing as a pass-rusher. We didn't have anyone proven to replace Graham or Jones either, yet they still walked.

I'm assuming at the end of his 3 years left on his contract he's going to fall off.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  He's not going to fall off before the first 2 of those 3 years.  His 3 year and final one of the contract he'll be 35.  I don't think he's going to be an impact player anymore.  For the next 2 years definitely, maybe the 3rd, AJ is obviously a far better WR than Torrey is.

With Upshaw though we at least had a guy that was playing on a regular basis behind Kruger.  He played more snaps than Kruger that year I believe.  The Ellerbe walk was a tough one to swallow, especially with Lewis retiring that year.  I think secretly they were hoping for McClain to be ready to go for the start of the next year.  Even though he wasn't.  With Graham we don't have anyone to exactly replace him, but Webb will slide back to the nickel with healthy knees again and moving Chykie, or whomever, outside will be better for the team than having an untested guy play the nickel.

[gabefergy]

I'm assuming at the end of his 3 years left on his contract he's going to fall off.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  He's not going to fall off before the first 2 of those 3 years.  His 3 year and final one of the contract he'll be 35.  I don't think he's going to be an impact player anymore.  For the next 2 years definitely, maybe the 3rd, AJ is obviously a far better WR than Torrey is.

With Upshaw though we at least had a guy that was playing on a regular basis behind Kruger.  He played more snaps than Kruger that year I believe.  The Ellerbe walk was a tough one to swallow, especially with Lewis retiring that year.  I think secretly they were hoping for McClain to be ready to go for the start of the next year.  Even though he wasn't.  With Graham we don't have anyone to exactly replace him, but Webb will slide back to the nickel with healthy knees again and moving Chykie, or whomever, outside will be better for the team than having an untested guy play the nickel.

The way I see it, I would rather have 2-3 years of Andre playing at a high level than 5 years of Torrey who may never be anything more than he is right now. The disparity between them is quite large imo, and while AJ will no longer the speed threat on the outside that Torrey is, he does so much better on the short to intermediate range it's not even close between them. AJ takes over games in a way that Torrey has rarely been able to do.

[beanfigger]

The way I see it, I would rather have 2-3 years of Andre playing at a high level than 5 years of Torrey who may never be anything more than he is right now. The disparity between them is quite large imo, and while AJ will no longer the speed threat on the outside that Torrey is, he does so much better on the short to intermediate range it's not even close between them. AJ takes over games in a way that Torrey has rarely been able to do.

Anyone who questions this is kidding themselves. The thing people have to decide is how much more money that production disparity is worth because that difference will be nearly as much. I would love AJ if we could afford him.

[SecretAgentMan]

Yeah.. The Texans want a first rounder....

 

Time to mess up their fax machine

[T3hRaven]

Yeah.. The Texans want a first rounder....

Time to mess up their fax machine

Yeah, that's not happening.

[SecretAgentMan]

Yeah, that's not happening.

I'm halfway through to hacking their network though

[SecretAgentMan]

***DISCLAIMER***

 

If he was in his prime, I'd totally trade a first for him. You wouldn't get a better WR in the draft