Torrey Smith / Andre Johnson Value?

[flynismo]

If you were a top 5 WR in the NFL  who has done nothing but lead the league in receiving, go to pro bowls, and straight up dominate for 1 team over the course of 11 years and had to deal with crummy QB after crummy QB, new system after new system, and a lot of losses....wouldnt you want to get the hell out of dodge?

 

This isnt about money...Andre Johnson has already made a crap ton of money on an underpaid contract ( $90M less than Megatron...$7M less per year, and $12M less guaranteed). Its about how terrible the Texans are as a team...he has done nothing but help them and lead them as a player and they continue to struggle. He has been getting thrown to by the likes of David Carr, Matt Schaub, Tj Yates, and Case Keenum...and still has put up 220 catches 3000 yards and 10 TDs the past 2 seasons. What more does he have to do for this team? He cant throw to himself...he is 33 now and is probably tired of watching the playoffs on his couch. He has had a very successful but mostly  wasted career being thrown to by bums...he could have been SO much better than Megatron had he actually had a great QB throwing to him or been in a pass heavy scheme like Detroit back when he was in his prime.

 

As I have said already, I was refering to past incidents. I realize that this time around, he is just miserable that his team sucks, and feels the need to announce it to the world

[Geving]

here ya go

 

http://www.baltimoresportsandlife.com/forum/index.php?/topic/7198-will-there-be-firings-at-year-end-after-the-pats-debacle/page-3#entry242928

Thanks. I truly believe he will be retained. But like you have said, I don't think Ozzie will overpay, and players usually follow the money, especially early in their careers. I think we will work it out, but no one can be 100% certain we do.

[AsianRice]

Since Houston had already shipped Jacoby, Pollar, and Leach to us, they might as well doing that with AJ....lol

 

 

But he is too expensive to retain....

[flynismo]

He really wasn't on a big contract. He was actually well underpaid and the Texans agreed because they gave him the extension he deserved.

 

8 years, $60M isn't a big contract? Especially considering it was signed in 2005, when $60M was astronomical for a WR.

[gabefergy]

As I have said already, I was refering to past incidents. I realize that this time around, he is just miserable that his team sucks, and feels the need to announce it to the world

The past incident where he was incredibly underpaid, held out of OTAs and was given the money he deserved. It's how the business works.

[gabefergy]

8 years, $60M isn't a big contract? Especially considering it was signed in 2005, when $60M was astronomical for a WR.

Yeah and in 2010 that's massively underpaying someone with his production.

[flynismo]

here ya go

 

http://www.baltimoresportsandlife.com/forum/index.php?/topic/7198-will-there-be-firings-at-year-end-after-the-pats-debacle/page-3#entry242928

 

sooooo.....some guy on some forum "thinks we MIGHT listen to offers for Torrey". Seems legit

[gabefergy]

sooooo.....some guy on some forum "thinks we MIGHT listen to offers for Torrey". Seems legit

He is legit. You don't have to believe if you don't want to

[Purple_ICE 81]

As far as I'm concerned this is completely hypothetical. There would be a lot of hoops to jump through to get AJ here. I'm more focused on the relative value of Torrey Smith, as a soon to be FA in comparison to an All-time great WR nearing the end of his prime.

Yea I doubt we trade Torrey...be it for Andre Johnson or a combination of draft picks from another team. Look at it from Ozzie's point of view...what has Torrey done to warrant a trade? He is coming off a career year and a superbowl run where he was a big part of our passing game. He is no dominant WR like A.J. Green or Dez Bryant but is an electric homerun hitter and will make a solid WR for us over the next 4-5 years. Ozzie knows how to get fair contracts done, and definitely wont overpay Torrey who will likely get something a long the lines of a 6yr/$35-40M contract. Eric Decker put up amazing stats in Denver but only got $7M per year, I see Torrey staying in Baltimore on a similar contract.

[gabefergy]

Yea I doubt we trade Torrey...be it for Andre Johnson or a combination of draft picks from another team. Look at it from Ozzie's point of view...what has Torrey done to warrant a trade? He is coming off a career year and a superbowl run where he was a big part of our passing game. He is no dominant WR like A.J. Green or Dez Bryant but is an electric homerun hitter and will make a solid WR for us over the next 4-5 years. Ozzie knows how to get fair contracts done, and definitely wont overpay Torrey who will likely get something a long the lines of a 6yr/$35-40M contract. Eric Decker put up amazing stats in Denver but only got $7M per year, I see Torrey staying in Baltimore on a similar contract.

I think it depends on whether or not they think they can resign him to a reasonable deal. Remember, he's a Rosenhaus client.

[flynismo]

He is legit. You don't have to believe if you don't want to

Maybe he is, I have no clue. But passing that off as a rumor that we considered trading Torrey is a bit much. Since you want us to trade for AJ, should I start a rumor that the Ravens are considering trading for him?

[Purple_ICE 81]

8 years, $60M isn't a big contract? Especially considering it was signed in 2005, when $60M was astronomical for a WR.

It was actually signed in 2010 it was a contract extension that amounted to about $9M or $10M per year after he put up a crap ton of production and was the top WR in the NFL. When you look at Megatron who got $150M 2 years after AJ signed his and Larry Fitzgerald who got $130M in 2011 its microscopic in comparison.

[RavensNation14]

He is legit. You don't have to believe if you don't want to

I just find it hard to believe that only one guy has mentioned this and no one else has brought it up. You would think it would be a bigger topic especially since he's our guy right now. I haven't seen anything else talking about us trading Torrey or factors that would lead us to not resign him. The only thing your saying is that he is going to demand more money than we offer him or were going to target someone else. Torrey knows he's not a true #1 receiver and so does our FO. He's going to get paid similar to how Eric Decker got paid and I see him being a big part of our offense this year. 

 

Personally I think Jimmy Smith has a better chance of leaving Baltimore than Torrey Smith does. Smith is on the rise and could command big money this year especially after what Haden got and what Peterson might want. 

[gabefergy]

I just find it hard to believe that only one guy has mentioned this and no one else has brought it up. You would think it would be a bigger topic especially since he's our guy right now. I haven't seen anything else talking about us trading Torrey or factors that would lead us to not resign him. The only thing your saying is that he is going to demand more money than we offer him or were going to target someone else. Torrey knows he's not a true #1 receiver and so does our FO. He's going to get paid similar to how Eric Decker got paid and I see him being a big part of our offense this year.

Personally I think Jimmy Smith has a better chance of leaving Baltimore than Torrey Smith does. Smith is on the rise and could command big money this year especially after what Haden got and what Peterson might want.

It didn't seem like a very likely thing to happen, just something to think about. You could be right about Jimmy too, but at least we have him for an extra year. If I had to choose bbetween the two I'd take Jimmy if it came down to it.

[Gordo52]

Same. He's been a top 5 WR in the NFL for like 9 years. He has 221 receptions and 3000 yards the past 2 seasons alone. That's decline?

Imagine if he had a great QB in his career.

[RavensNation14]

It didn't seem like a very likely thing to happen, just something to think about. You could be right about Jimmy too, but at least we have him for an extra year. If I had to choose bbetween the two I'd take Jimmy if it came down to it.

Yea I'd have to say I would as well. Don't get me wrong I love Torrey, but you could definitely find a guy to replace him. Jimmy on the other hand has the potential to be a true shutdown corner. He proved last year he's capable of doing it, he just has to do it on more of a consistent basis. I think it will help big time with Brooks back there because now we have a true FS which will make it easier on our CB's. I really hope we can lock both guys up for the long run though. I could see us cutting bait on Ngata next year, especially if he doesn't play better this year. I'd take the money we can get from cutting him and put it right towards Jimmy/Torrey. 

[ravensdan]

Just curious. Why McPhee? I don't think they'd ever want him.

I think McPhee had a much greater impact inside than at OLB, where the texans are very thin and the ravens are now stacked. Opposite watt on the other end with clowney and mercilus coming off the outside. That is deadly.

[Purple_ICE 81]

Imagine if he had a great QB in his career.

He would have averaged 130 catches, 1800 yards and 15TDs per season...but he kind of already did that except for the TD production.

[ravensdfan]

I'm not giving up Torrey for him.

 

At our current pattern we're only taking a WR above round 6 every 8 years or so and I don't think Andre Johnson or Steve Smith is going to be producing (or even playing) into their 40's.

 

Torrey might be a solid #2 but at least he's only 25.

[Inqui]

I think McPhee had a much greater impact inside than at OLB, where the texans are very thin and the ravens are now stacked. Opposite watt on the other end with clowney and mercilus coming off the outside. That is deadly.

To be fair, that's more about Watt/Clowney/Mercilus than McPhee.

[arnie_uk]

He is legit. You don't have to believe if you don't want to

whos he? What poster?

[rmw10]

This is fun.

[Inqui]

I'm not giving up Torrey for him.

 

At our current pattern we're only taking a WR above round 6 every 8 years or so and I don't think Andre Johnson or Steve Smith is going to be producing (or even playing) into their 40's.

 

Torrey might be a solid #2 but at least he's only 25.

Agree with this. AJ is the better player now, but I think we'll get more from Torrey after today (or starting this season. Whatever) than we would from Johnson. Finding a way to add him to the roster would have me doing cartwheels, but given a choice between the two I'd rather have Torrey.

[gabefergy]

whos he? What poster?

He's an insider who posts at bsl. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up considering how some people like to blow things way out of proportion. My point was it's not crazy to think the Ravens would consider moving Torrey for the right price. Some people can't handle that.

[RavensDE]

This is all crazy talk.  Since when does Oz sacrifice the long term for the short term?  Andre is great but he is also declining and expensive.  They won't trade him because they can't get value for him.  No one is trading a 1st or 2nd for Andre at this point.  If they do then believe me the Texans would take it.  

 

Andre is looking at a downgrade a QB from SHAUB!  On top of that he lost a coach he believed in and now looks up and sees a rebuilding Texans that look far less potent than a year ago. That is a pretty bad scenario.  They don't trade him unless he forces it.  He has to really burn his bridges with the Texans FO and fans to get out.  I love the guy and I love how much he loves football and understanding for what it takes to be great but if he comes our way we are getting him for cheap.  AKA we are not getting him.  #hopehescheap

[arnie_uk]

He's an insider who posts at bsl. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up considering how some people like to blow things way out of proportion. My point was it's not crazy to think the Ravens would consider moving Torrey for the right price. Some people can't handle that.

I found the one who said it, miller something.

I actually thought I heard that on this board as well. Or rsr as thats the only other board I go to, and im almost certain I heard that before now.

[display name]

This is all crazy talk.  Since when does Oz sacrifice the long term for the short term?  Andre is great but he is also declining and expensive.  They won't trade him because they can't get value for him.  No one is trading a 1st or 2nd for Andre at this point.  If they do then believe me the Texans would take it.  

 

Andre is looking at a downgrade a QB from SHAUB!  On top of that he lost a coach he believed in and now looks up and sees a rebuilding Texans that look far less potent than a year ago. That is a pretty bad scenario.  They don't trade him unless he forces it.  He has to really burn his bridges with the Texans FO and fans to get out.  I love the guy and I love how much he loves football and understanding for what it takes to be great but if he comes our way we are getting him for cheap.  AKA we are not getting him.  #hopehescheap

Do you mean Kubiak? I can see that you are opposed to signing Johnson, however this is a weak argument, because the fact is that this coach that he "believed in" is now with the Ravens. Wouldn't that be a reason for him to come here?

The biggest obstacle here is obviously money. I believe we have around $6 mil left in cap space, and we haven't even signed all our draft picks yet.

[RavensNation14]

Do you mean Kubiak? I can see that you are opposed to signing Johnson, however this is a weak argument, because the fact is that this coach that he "believed in" is now with the Ravens. Wouldn't that be a reason for him to come here?

The biggest obstacle here is obviously money. I believe we have around $6 mil left in cap space, and we haven't even signed all our draft picks yet.

We also only have 4 CB's and are thin at RT. We need that money to sign veterans in case an injury happens. As much as I would want Johnson I'd rather have that money to fill some of our other positions that we absolutely need some guys at. 

[52520Andrew]

Why don't you Google it.

 

I googled it and you are right, Andre apparently took less money than he would have gotten on the open market in multiple occasions to stay with Houston

[flynismo]

He's an insider who posts at bsl. I probably shouldn't have even brought it up considering how some people like to blow things way out of proportion. My point was it's not crazy to think the Ravens would consider moving Torrey for the right price. Some people can't handle that.

Way to state the obvious. Any player is tradeable for the right price. It's a matter of what that price is.

If your intent was to prove that some guy on the internet came up with the idea that maybe the Ravens would consider listening to offers for Torrey, you succeeded. Bravo!