edreedfromtheu

Torrey Smith / Andre Johnson Value?

245 posts in this topic

It's been debated whether or not Torrey Smith is an "elite" receiver.

I don't like to call guys "number 1s" or "number 2s" etc. 

But... for the sake of argument, I have a hypothetical for you:

Texans aren't going to compete this year, and Andre Johnson has earned the right to request a trade to a contender.

Do you trade Torrey Smith(and perhaps a mid-to-late round pick) for Andre Johnson?

I assume we all agree Andre Johnson is a upper-echelon receiver.  He probably only has 2-3 more good years left.  Meanwhile Torrey Smith is young and already has chemistry with Flacco.

Do you trade long-term security, for a chance at another title this year or next?  Torrey will eventually want to get paid.  He's still on his rookie deal.  Andre Johnson also already knows Kubiak's offense.  He blocks well(even though Torrey isn't horrible at it), which will help in the running game.

This isn't really for those who believe Torrey is a great receiver... it's more for those who have questioned whether he's that talented.  Those who feel he's really only a deep-threat guy.  Obviously if you already feel Torrey Smith is a great all-around receiver, then you're not going to sacrifice the next 7 years for the next 2.

-3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trade a guy who is still improving and yet to hit his prime for an expensive WR in decline? I think the answer is obvious.

19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre Johnson makes Torrey Smith look like Yamon Figurs, so I make that deal in a heart beat.  Let someone else be holding the bag when Torrey's speed goes and he becomes completely ineffective.

-5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And just to clarify, I am one of those guys who consider Torrey a "#2", whatever that means

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre Johnson's contract info - 

 

Cap Hit          Dead Money

 

12,144,583           11,964,166

16,144,583           7,319,583

14,675,000           2,675,000

 

I'll take what Torrey gives us and the player's we'd have to cut to make this work

Edited by jb22
4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should clarify though, is the trade a straight up player for player? I'm not sure HOU would go for it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, give Sacco an NFL line and he has proven he can get the ball where it needs to be. Unless Andre can play RT he is useless without blockers.

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a great sample size for Torrey but he averages more touchdowns per year.

Andre averages like twice the catches per year. Also it's not his fault Houston always runs the ball goal to go.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I deal could be struck without giving up Torrey. Someone like McPhee and a draft pick maybe. We'd have to sign him for multiple years to make a contract work. It would take done magic, but we haven't fleeced the texans this year. They're due.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been debated whether or not Torrey Smith is an "elite" receiver.

I don't like to call guys "number 1s" or "number 2s" etc. 

But... for the sake of argument, I have a hypothetical for you:

Texans aren't going to compete this year, and Andre Johnson has earned the right to request a trade to a contender.

Do you trade Torrey Smith(and perhaps a mid-to-late round pick) for Andre Johnson?

I assume we all agree Andre Johnson is a upper-echelon receiver.  He probably only has 2-3 more good years left.  Meanwhile Torrey Smith is young and already has chemistry with Flacco.

Do you trade long-term security, for a chance at another title this year or next?  Torrey will eventually want to get paid.  He's still on his rookie deal.  Andre Johnson also already knows Kubiak's offense.  He blocks well(even though Torrey isn't horrible at it), which will help in the running game.

This isn't really for those who believe Torrey is a great receiver... it's more for those who have questioned whether he's that talented.  Those who feel he's really only a deep-threat guy.  Obviously if you already feel Torrey Smith is a great all-around receiver, then you're not going to sacrifice the next 7 years for the next 2.

Just completely read this. No.  I would never trade Torrey now for Andre Johnson now. Look at what Stevie Johnson, he is in his prime and is a #1 receiver. He went for a 4th. Boldin went for a 6th. With his cap hit, Andre would be a 5th or lower for us.

Edited by ravensnick
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Andre Johnson is on the decline and would be too much of a cap hit. Plus you got to factor in locker room and player chemistry.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre Johnson coming off of a season where he caught 109 balls for 1400+ yards is on the decline? Some of ya'll crack me up.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre Johnson coming off of a season where he caught 109 balls for 1400+ yards is on the decline? Some of ya'll crack me up.

He's also 32, torrey is 25.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's also 32, torrey is 25.

It doesn't mean he is declining.

Torrey is also a FA with no guarantee he'll be back next year.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested in trying to get Andre Johnson, but we need that extra money to sign a veteran during camp incase a major injury happens. If Jimmy Smith or Ladarius Webb go down were not looking good at all in our secondary. I like Brooks and Elam, but both those guys are young and inexperienced. Our next CB up is Asa/Chykie and that is not something I want to deal with. 

 

Not to mention if one of our other players go down. We just signed Steve Smith for 3 years and were committed to him and the group we have now. Don't see it happening honestly. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't mean he is declining.

Torrey is also a FA with no guarantee he'll be back next year.

Not really a fan of having our #1 and #2 being 32 and 35. Those guys are declining faster than we know it and Andre has dealt with nagging hamstring injuries his entire career. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny part is Andre would be a huge upgrade. Yet when Andre and Jacoby were the Texans' 1 and 2 in 2011, they still felt receiver was their top need. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really a fan of having our #1 and #2 being 32 and 35. Those guys are declining faster than we know it and Andre has dealt with nagging hamstring injuries his entire career.

we probably still wouldn't draft a wr
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really a fan of having our #1 and #2 being 32 and 35. Those guys are declining faster than we know it and Andre has dealt with nagging hamstring injuries his entire career.

He's been pretty healthy as of late. It's not ideal to have older WRs, but I will take the talent over youth any day of the week.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As fly pointed out, Andre Johnson is already passed his prime, and probably doesn't have more than two 1,000 yard seasons left. Andre would definitely be the immediate upgrade, but Torrey is better long term. It's an interesting idea, but I  wouldn't make the trade.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As fly pointed out, Andre Johnson is already passed his prime, and probably doesn't have more than two 1,000 yard seasons left. Andre would definitely be the immediate upgrade, but Torrey is better long term. It's an interesting idea, but I wouldn't make the trade.

I wouldn't say past his prime, but hes going to be 33 this year, he will start declining any day now

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre averages like twice the catches per year. Also it's not his fault Houston always runs the ball goal to go.

 

83 to 55, not really double. We're also a zone run first offense.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

83 to 55, not really double. We're also a zone run first offense.

What kind of offense you think Andre has been playing in lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's been pretty healthy as of late. It's not ideal to have older WRs, but I will take the talent over youth any day of the week.

I just don't want to take that chance. Both of our guys would be old and you have to think how much chemistry Joe already has with Torrey. There's a lot more than that has to be taken into account then just shipping Torrey for Andre or trying to pursue Andre and not resigning Smith. 

 

At this point in time I'd take Torrey over Andre any day because Torrey has remained healthy and he's such a good guy in the community. He's definitely one of my favorite players and I think a lot of fans would be upset if we traded or didn't resign him. Major slap in the face to Torrey and I don't want to be the organization that does things like that. It just isn't professional and fair to the players. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't want to take that chance. Both of our guys would be old and you have to think how much chemistry Joe already has with Torrey. There's a lot more than that has to be taken into account then just shipping Torrey for Andre or trying to pursue Andre and not resigning Smith.

At this point in time I'd take Torrey over Andre any day because Torrey has remained healthy and he's such a good guy in the community. He's definitely one of my favorite players and I think a lot of fans would be upset if we traded or didn't resign him. Major slap in the face to Torrey and I don't want to be the organization that does things like that. It just isn't professional and fair to the players.

yeah, I mean Torrey will probably never be as good as AJ, but when you consider the salaries, AJs age and the other intangibles, it is a bad trade I think

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of offense you think Andre has been playing in lol

 

Scoring has always been the knock on Johnson, and you pointed the finger at the Texans offensive system but what that tells us is that he won't improve his numbers in our system, especially as he ages.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, I mean Torrey will probably never be as good as AJ, but when you consider the salaries, AJs age and the other intangibles, it is a bad trade I think

Very lopsided. It would be completely different if we sent a draft pick for him, but even then I doubt we would do that. We've used quite a few picks already in next year's draft and we all know how Ozzie love's his draft picks. Wouldn't make Steve Smith happy either and I don't want to see an angry Steve Smith in the Ravens locker room. 

 

I wonder who he might possibly be traded too though. Has to be a team that has some cap space and is a playoff caliber team. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Torrey under the new coaches should develop very well, Andre has nowhere to go but down in value at this point. Not a fan

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't buy the Lombardi, you have to build to it. Torrey is a solid building block in the Raven offense. He's never going to be "elite" (which is why I was hoping for OBJ) but he'll be worth the money we pay him in his next contract & he wants to be a Raven. We won't get stuck with any outlandish Torrey contract b/c there won't be any, just a valuable Raven.

Edited by Bruce_Almty
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scoring has always been the knock on Johnson, and you pointed the finger at the Texans offensive system but what that tells us is that he won't improve his numbers in our system, especially as he ages.

You wouldn't want 100+ catches for 1400+ yards?

It's not like Torrey is scoring tons of TDs either.

If you could tell me we would have Torrey for the next 5 years at a reasonable rate I would take it, but he's a FA after this season and he could be looking to get paid.

Edited by gabefergy
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be happy to take AJ on as another WR, but I'm not in favour of trading Torrey. Our WR situation is alright as it is, but depth is the main concern. Swap our WR in his prime for a declining guy with an injury history and depth becomes even more of a concern.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd absolutely love to have Johnson here, but I don't think it's a realistic possibility.  He has a large salary and is 32 years old.

 

I don't see any way that Torrey leaves anyways.  The FO has made it pretty known that he's a priority and I doubt they let him walk.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andre Johnson coming off of a season where he caught 109 balls for 1400+ yards is on the decline? Some of ya'll crack me up.

A closer parallel is randy miss who went for a fourth but Andre doesn't carry the baggage. I almost guarantee we are crunching the numbers on a potential deal. A third and McPhee I am thinking.

-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you trade long-term security, for a chance at another title this year or next?

Trade such as this one is not likely to determine our chances at winning another Super Bowl in next 2 years. If anything, chances should be better with Torrey, considering he is entering his prime and $ difference can be used to help getting good player elsewhere on the team.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny part is Andre would be a huge upgrade. Yet when Andre and Jacoby were the Texans' 1 and 2 in 2011, they still felt receiver was their top need. 

Because Jacoby is an absolutely terrible #2. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offence, but thats a Madden trade. Also, the title of 'Torrey Smith's Value' is misleading for a topic of conversation when the text is as such. I love Torrey Smith, his value to us is that of a #1 WR. Andre Johnson is an awesome WR with a proven track record who MAY be on the trading block. The trade that was presented would be ridiculous lol. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't buy the Lombardi, you have to build to it. Torrey is a solid building block in the Raven offense. He's never going to be "elite" (which is why I was hoping for OBJ) but he'll be worth the money we pay him in his next contract & he wants to be a Raven. We won't get stuck with any outlandish Torrey contract b/c there won't be any, just a valuable Raven.

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Hopefully we can land a number one somewhere down the road to suit up with Torrey, Pitta, Camp, and Brown as this looks like our future.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scoring has always been the knock on Johnson, and you pointed the finger at the Texans offensive system but what that tells us is that he won't improve his numbers in our system, especially as he ages.

Not only would it not improve, but it would likely drop quite a bit (assuming S Smith is still a good player and Marlon avoids a sophomore slump ); between AJ, Smith, Marlon, Pitta and Daniels -- as well as Rice, that's a lot of mouths to feed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're a fool if you trade Torrey Smith for Andre Johnson in the long term.  Which is what a GM is supposed to do.  Johnson will be in Steve Smith's position in 3 years whereas Torrey still has at least 7 years with which is speed will remain.  Not only that we're supposed to take on a 12mil cap hit this year, a 16 next year and 14 the next?

You can't be serious.  With how QB is these days Flacco will play until he's like 37 and still be a better than average QB because his arm strength won't deteriorate to poo arm levels.  You'd essentially be reverting back to our Derrick Mason WR days and bringing in old veterans to stop gap while we hope we can draft a WR that's even half decent.  Which has happened once, Torrey Smith.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A closer parallel is randy miss who went for a fourth but Andre doesn't carry the baggage. I almost guarantee we are crunching the numbers on a potential deal. A third and McPhee I am thinking.

If we gave up a 3rd, much less a 3rd AND McPhee for AJ, I would personally stomp into the castle and give Ozzie a swift kick in the beanbag

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we gave up a 3rd, much less a 3rd AND McPhee for AJ, I would personally stomp into the castle and give Ozzie a swift kick in the beanbag

You wouldn't give up a 3rd for Andre Johnson?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Torrey Smith and a mid round pick ... LOL, I don't understand the logic there. I would however give up a 2nd-4th rounder for Andre in a heartbeat! All he does is produce, keep clean off the field and has the desire to win. Torrey/Steve/Andre ... my god what a trio. Especially with Andre (and Daniels) history under Kubiak ... 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People don't understand a. how good Johnson is and b. Torrey is a free agent after 2014.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People don't understand a. how good Johnson is and b. Torrey is a free agent after 2014.

 

Apparently not.  Dude is a HoFer in my book.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently not. Dude is a HoFer in my book.

Same. He's been a top 5 WR in the NFL for like 9 years. He has 221 receptions and 3000 yards the past 2 seasons alone. That's decline?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now