Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

YashaYahu1

DE'S/LB'S

38 posts in this topic

PERNELL MCPHEE/ JOHN SIMON/ courtney Upshaw/Deangelo Tyson/ LEWIS-MOORE  KAPRONE

 

Where do they fit in? McPhee been there awahile now first at De now at LB i think he showd move back to DE and compete with CANTY.  Upshaw as well i think he can compete with canty at DE..We have depth and youth but the reality is Suggs is not coming off the field so when and where do they fit? A we just training them just to have another team give them an opportunity while we watch them have success for another team?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually I think most of those players will be in rotation. Hopefully John Simon shows improvement so he can get some playing time too. I'm a big fan. He's a hard worker with a great motor. I think he'll be a great player for Baltimore some day.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you going to make a thread like this for every positional group?

Where they fit will depend on what base defense the Ravens run. Upshaw is the starter at OLB in the 3-4 or starting DE in the 4-3. Tyson will be a solid role player in the 3-4 as a DE, or a DT in the 4-3. I think you'll see KPLM rotated in at DE in either defense to help prepare for a defense without Canty and Ngata. Simon will likely have to earn his role and position on the team as a special teams player

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where they fit will depend on what base defense the Ravens run. Upshaw is the starter at OLB in the 3-4 or starting DE in the 4-3.

 

yeah but you are leaving out dumerville...he is the starting olb not Upshaw...so that has taken alot of snaps away from Upshaw. So if he is barley getting on the field that mean even less snaps for the others..espesially  McPhee who i really like.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm hoping Lewis Moore and Jernigan show up big this year in the snaps they are given.

 

This is an important phase in our defense and maintaining it as the strength of our team. I love CJ mosley and the only worry I have is his durability. As a football player he is awesome. Don't compare him to rolando mclain (like some steeler fans are doing) who never had mosleys instincts in college. He was merely a thumper because of his excellent size. Mosely is  a superior player

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah but you are leaving out dumerville...he is the starting olb not Upshaw...so that has taken alot of snaps away from Upshaw. So if he is barley getting on the field that mean even less snaps for the others..espesially  McPhee who i really like.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Upshaw is the starter and played about an equal number of snaps as Dumervil. Upshaw is a far superior run defender than Elvis (who was the fourth worst run defender in Denver. That meant there were defensive backs who were better run stoppers than him.) So, Upshaw is the starter to handle the run and Dumervil acts as the pass rusher

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats whats killing me...why havn't anyone commented on how he looks? That's something that needs to be reports as much has it was how much weight  Ray rice lost...I want to know if Upshaw looks slimmer ??

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats whats killing me...why havn't anyone commented on how he looks? That's something that needs to be reports as much has it was how much weight  Ray rice lost...I want to know if Upshaw looks slimmer ??

 

Sometimes a report of nothing is a good thing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PERNELL MCPHEE/ JOHN SIMON/ courtney Upshaw/Deangelo Tyson/ LEWIS-MOORE  KAPRONE

 

Where do they fit in? McPhee been there awahile now first at De now at LB i think he showd move back to DE and compete with CANTY.  Upshaw as well i think he can compete with canty at DE..We have depth and youth but the reality is Suggs is not coming off the field so when and where do they fit? A we just training them just to have another team give them an opportunity while we watch them have success for another team?

Take Moore and Tyson out. They don't fit in the size/assignment of the others. Simon/McPhee/Upshaw are all 3-4 OLBs, 4-3 DEs. Tyson/Moore are 3-4 DEs/4-3 DT, they couldn't play OLB for their life.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats whats killing me...why havn't anyone commented on how he looks? That's something that needs to be reports as much has it was how much weight  Ray rice lost...I want to know if Upshaw looks slimmer ??

He was at the M&T draft party.  I stood right next to him.  He looked slim off the hoof.  certainly didnt look out of shape.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the pool of players is as follows (3-4 base):

 

OLB - Suggs & Upshaw Starters. Elvis & Mcphee as pass rushing rotation. Simon probably will not see the field much.

 

DE -  Canty will probably begin the season as the starter. I am predicting KLM to take his spot by end of season. Rotation of Tyson and possibly Urban. You may also see Jernigan in at DE in larger packages on early downs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that McPhee should move back primarily to DL to compete with Canty. He seems to have a bigger impact disrupting in tighter spaces as opposed to open space like an OLB. He has been productive, in his limited snaps going back to his rookie season, at getting after the QB so why worry about dropping back in coverage when we should be conditioning him to focus on his pass rush. McPhee is younger and has more upside than Canty, he should be motivated in his contract year too!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McPhee should put on another 10 pounds or so and become a full time DE. He could be Anthony Weaver like in terms of their playing style / size. He lacks the speed, agility, quickness to be an effective pass rushing LB. Unless he loses another 20 pounds or so.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McPhee should put on another 10 pounds or so and become a full time DE. He could be Anthony Weaver like in terms of their playing style / size. He lacks the speed, agility, quickness to be an effective pass rushing LB. Unless he loses another 20 pounds or so.

See his 2012 season where he tried that and his production dropped.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McPhee won't be moving back to DE.  He's sitting at 270ish right now.  Putting on weight only puts him at 280, nowhere near big enough to survive in the 3-4.  The reason he dropped weight in the first place is because his knees couldn't handle the constant beating in the trenches.  He'll stay at OLB in the 3-4 and rotate in on the DL in nickel situations.  The move to OLB was necessary to preserve his health.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See his 2012 season where he tried that and his production dropped.

 

What was his weight in 2012?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roughly 285-295. 

 

Well that's a pretty big gap if you go by guessing. He could have also been anywhere from 280-300 lbs. ;)

His listed weight is 280 right now and he didn't play all that well last season in hybrid DE/LB role either. He doesn't have the quickness to be an effective blitzing LB so I see him more of an every down lineman if he gains another 10-20 pounds.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's a pretty big gap if you go by guessing. He could have also been anywhere from 280-300 lbs. ;)

His listed weight is 280 right now and he didn't play all that well last season in hybrid DE/LB role either. He doesn't have the quickness to be an effective blitzing LB so I see him more of an every down lineman if he gains another 10-20 pounds.

 

Again... His performance severely dropped when he added weight... Not to mention his knees can't handle it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ravens have really strong talent and depth on the front 7. Its gonna be fun watching these young guys compete this year. I could really see Cody and Canty cut this year, maybe not Canty but definitely Cody.

In a perfect world it'd say Timmy and Tyson rotates DT/3tech Ngata and Williams at NT with Canty and Lewis-Moore at the DE/5tech. Now obviously it's not a perfect world and these guys will play up and down the dline which is even better. I think Mcphee needs to go back with his hand in the dirt. He needs to carve out his role amongst this group here. I don't think he can live outside.

With the OLBs i think the wildcard is Hamilton. He came in two years ago as a pass rusher only, but started to develop into amore complete player. He started getting better against the run but his development was cut short in the presesaon. I think Hamilton and Simon could be a really good pair in a few years. I really like our young talent at the LB positions. Hamilton, Simon, Upshaw, Mosley, and Brown. All though guys have a good combination of toughness and speed.

This defense is gonna be young fast and physical.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again... His performance severely dropped when he added weight... Not to mention his knees can't handle it.

 

Why do you keep going back to the weight when you don't even know what his weight was?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ravens have really strong talent and depth on the front 7. Its gonna be fun watching these young guys compete this year. I could really see Cody and Canty cut this year, maybe not Canty but definitely Cody.

In a perfect world it'd say Timmy and Tyson rotates DT/3tech Ngata and Williams at NT with Canty and Lewis-Moore at the DE/5tech. Now obviously it's not a perfect world and these guys will play up and down the dline which is even better. I think Mcphee needs to go back with his hand in the dirt. He needs to carve out his role amongst this group here. I don't think he can live outside.

With the OLBs i think the wildcard is Hamilton. He came in two years ago as a pass rusher only, but started to develop into amore complete player. He started getting better against the run but his development was cut short in the presesaon. I think Hamilton and Simon could be a really good pair in a few years. I really like our young talent at the LB positions. Hamilton, Simon, Upshaw, Mosley, and Brown. All though guys have a good combination of toughness and speed.

This defense is gonna be young fast and physical.

 

I'm really curious to see what happens with Hamilton this year.  If it wasn't for his injury, I believe he would have made the 53 man roster.  He looked great rushing the passer in the preseason last year.  I know he made one terrible play where he completely overran the ball carrier, but otherwise, he looked very good.  I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up a big fight again this year.  The tricky part is the fact that there are so many guys in front of him.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you keep going back to the weight when you don't even know what his weight was?

 

When the article came out about the McPhee shift to OLB, it was stated his weight was 285 when he was on the DL.  To move to OLB, he dropped into the 270 range.  Either way you cut it, 285 isn't big enough to survive in the trenches consistently unless you have supreme length like Watt or Keisel.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you keep going back to the weight when you don't even know what his weight was?

 

Because it's well documented that he gained roughly ten pounds after his rookie year in order to play better in the trenches. It backfired though and his performance declined. That's why the coaches then had him drop even more weight to play OLB. 

 

I don't know exactly what his weight was because not many websites list a player's exact playing weight for the 2012 season. Duh. But I do know he came into the league in the 275-280 range, and a simple math equation tells me he bulked up to 285-290. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the article came out about the McPhee shift to OLB, it was stated his weight was 285 when he was on the DL.  To move to OLB, he dropped into the 270 range.  Either way you cut it, 285 isn't big enough to survive in the trenches consistently unless you have supreme length like Watt or Keisel.

 

I think it has more to do with strength and overall athleticism than length. Justin Smith plays at an average 6'3" and 285 pounds. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it has more to do with strength and overall athleticism than length. Justin Smith plays at an average 6'3" and 285 pounds. 

 

Yeah there are definitely some outliers like Justin Smith.  Smith is so explosive, even at his age.  McPhee is explosive, but not enough to consistently survive.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the article came out about the McPhee shift to OLB, it was stated his weight was 285 when he was on the DL.  To move to OLB, he dropped into the 270 range.  Either way you cut it, 285 isn't big enough to survive in the trenches consistently unless you have supreme length like Watt or Keisel.

 

I'd like him to bulk up to 300 pounds and become an every down lineman. He has that strength/size to be effective as a run stopper and add some pass rush. I really don't see him as an effective pass rushing LB, he'd have to go all the way down do 260-270 for that to happen. He just looks more natural as a big guy to me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like him to bulk up to 300 pounds and become an every down lineman. He has that strength/size to be effective as a run stopper and add some pass rush. I really don't see him as an effective pass rushing LB, he'd have to go all the way down do 260-270 for that to happen. He just looks more natural as a big guy to me.

 

He can't.  His knees can't handle that weight.  That's the whole reason he was moved in the first place.  I don't think you realize how difficult it would be to add 30 lbs. to his frame in a healthy manner in such a short amount of time.  He's in the 270 range now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites