Young Dominant Defense in the Making

[BMORE21]

It would be nice for us to have a dominant defense, but you guys are going overboard with these guys skills when we haven't seen them play yet.

[ravensnick]

It would be nice for us to have a dominant defense, but you guys are going overboard with these guys skills when we haven't seen them play yet.

Well, the young guys have to step up eventually. Mosely, Brown, KLM, Jernigan, Williams, Brooks all should be starters very soon. I think we move Ngata to DE and play Canty, Williams, and Ngata for d-line. Ngata and Canty will be gone within 2 years, so some our starting line should be KLM/Tyson, Williams, Jernigan. Brooks and Mosely should start and Brown should be Smith's sub.

[KBoum]

This defense is going to be something big in the near future.

 

On the topic of scheme, I think that running a single gap 3-4 might be more likely than full on switch to a 4-3. This single gap scheme is basically a 4-3 but with 3-4 personnel. That's the really basic gist of it. Since none of defensive linemen are true two gappers, I just don't see us running a traditional style 3-4. The single gap version would get the most out of our guys. 

 

 

can you explain me how the singlegap works ? sounds a bit like 5-2 to me ? is it the hybrid 3-4 with a run stuffer OLB like the Ravens use ? do you have the D-Line shifted ? whos got what gap ?

 

If I understood correctly that gives the ILBs the inside gaps ? NT has left 1 gap that means RILB get the right 1 Gap ?

 

Thanks

Kboum

[ravensnick]

can you explain me how the singlegap works ? sounds a bit like 5-2 to me ? is it the hybrid 3-4 with a run stuffer OLB like the Ravens use ? do you have the D-Line shifted ? whos got what gap ?

 

If I understood correctly that gives the ILBs the inside gaps ? NT has left 1 gap that means RILB get the right 1 Gap ?

 

Thanks

Kboum

Basically, in the 3-4, the lineman take double teams to get the LBs free (in theory, this isn;t always the case). In the 4-3, the lineman each fight a single guy with maybe one with a double team.

[KBoum]

Basically, in the 3-4, the lineman take double teams to get the LBs free (in theory, this isn;t always the case). In the 4-3, the lineman each fight a single guy with maybe one with a double team.

yeah I knew that but I meant the difference between the 3-4 double gap and the 3-4 singlegap.. I mean I don't think I,ve seen the Ravens run 100% any of this. I saw them used single gap for most of the D-Line except the NT with doublegap and maybe Arthur Jones/Tyson.

 

I'm pretty sure Canty was single gap. Upshaw had the contain, outside gap. Ngata/Cody/Williams had the double inside gaps.

Ravens don't have the personnel to run a double gaps 3-4 thats for sure. Jernigan in the 3 tech would be a beast imo, please don't try to doublegap him thats not where he's great at. Same with  Canty. Ngata isnt the same he was against double team. 

 

so the hybrid 3-4 single gap/4-3 with Upshaw setting the edge and Ngata/Tyson/KLM - Ngata/Williams/Cody - Canty/Jernigan

pretty much what the Ravens used.

[ravensnick]

yeah I knew that but I meant the difference between the 3-4 double gap and the 3-4 singlegap.. I mean I don't think I,ve seen the Ravens run 100% any of this. I saw them used single gap for most of the D-Line except the NT with doublegap and maybe Arthur Jones/Tyson.

 

I'm pretty sure Canty was single gap. Upshaw had the contain, outside gap. Ngata/Cody/Williams had the double inside gaps.

Ravens don't have the personnel to run a double gaps 3-4 thats for sure. Jernigan in the 3 tech would be a beast imo, please don't try to doublegap him thats not where he's great at. Same with  Canty. Ngata isnt the same he was against double team. 

 

so the hybrid 3-4 single gap/4-3 with Upshaw setting the edge and Ngata/Tyson/KLM - Ngata/Williams/Cody - Canty/Jernigan

pretty much what the Ravens used.

Yep, that the basic concept, with a 5-2 and 4-2 that we use occasionally.

[JoeyFlex5]

He only had one year of experience at safety in college, that was the other thing that dropped him. I don't even know where opposing QB can throw on this secondary in 2-3 years once Brooks and Elam fully develop.

this is true but I believe a CB to FS transition should be a pretty easy switch to make, FS to CB seems like it would be harder, but im not a NFL player lol.

 

also I think that does nothing but show versatility and adaptability to be able to pick up a new position so quickly after so many years of being a CB.

 

in other words, I think Terrence brooks may just end up the steal of the draft if he can work on holding on to those passes instead of breaking them up

[RaineV1]

I think Jernigan is capable of dealing with double teams. He seemed to be the primary focus of blockers in college. He's much better off if the Ravens can scheme a way to keep him in one on one matchups though. However, putting him with big bull rushers like Williams and Ngata should solve that issue. Or simply having another lineman step up and also be disruptive like Jernigan, so the O-line has to choose who to double team.

[RaineV1]

this is true but I believe a CB to FS transition should be a pretty easy switch to make, FS to CB seems like it would be harder, but im not a NFL player lol.

 

also I think that does nothing but show versatility and adaptability to be able to pick up a new position so quickly after so many years of being a CB.

 

in other words, I think Terrence brooks may just end up the steal of the draft if he can work on holding on to those passes instead of breaking them up

I remember one analysis of Brooks called him a swiss army knife DB, since he's able to play FS, SS, and nickleback.

[BMORE21]

Lets hope Mosley don't end up like every other Bama player...

[ravensnick]

Lets hope Mosley don't end up like every other Bama player...

Marcell Dareus, Demeco Ryans, Julio Jones, Donte hightower are a few guys from bama who have panned out well, with ryans and hightower playing the same position. Bama actually has a decent LB pedigree. 

[arnie_uk]

Marcell Dareus, Demeco Ryans, Julio Jones, Donte hightower are a few guys from bama who have panned out well, with ryans and hightower playing the same position. Bama actually has a decent LB pedigree.

I wouldn't say high tower is special, nor ryans. Average, decent is how I'd describe those

[ravensnick]

I wouldn't say high tower is special, nor ryans. Average, decent is how I'd describe those

Ryans was a great player in houston and had a decent year with the eagles. Considering he was a 2nd rounder, great pick there. Hightower is a good, physical LB, excels at stopping the run and really fits well at the 4-3 MLB. Him, Mayo, and Collins are probably the top lb corp in the AFC (and maybe the league until Bowman returns to form and Aldon fixes his problems). Honestly, Mosely looks better than both. 

[SecretAgentMan]

I wouldn't say high tower is special, nor ryans. Average, decent is how I'd describe those

Ryans was great in a 4-3 and sucked in a 3-4.

Agreed with Hightower

[ravensnick]

Ryans was great in a 4-3 and sucked in a 3-4.

Agreed with Hightower

Wouldn't say sucked, but around average for Ryans. Hightower's a great thumper at 4-3 MLB. 

[arnie_uk]

Would say sucked, but around average for Ryans. Hightower's a great thumper at 4-3 MLB.

id like more than a thumper from a first round player. Same criticism as upshaw

[GrimCoconut]

id like more than a thumper from a first round player. Same criticism as upshaw

Honestly, the 2012 draft disappointed me. I didn't like Upshaw or Hightower. At the time, I wanted us to draft Jeffrey, Wagner, David, Trumaine Johnson, and Dwayne Allen before Upshaw. Just think for a moment. If we took Wagner or David ahead of Upshaw then we likely never would've needed Arthur Brown or even Mosley. It just baffles me, especially when even then I considered both players to be very good LB prospects. I know you were very much against us taking Upshaw

Hell, if we took Dwayne Allen maybe we would've done even better when we lost Pitta. I know Allen was considered a top TE protect.

[JoeyFlex5]

I wouldn't say high tower is special, nor ryans. Average, decent is how I'd describe those

ryans is pretty special, field general and solid is a severe understatement, consistent and fundamentally sound, smart player. hightower not as much, you seem to be underestimating ryans a bit tho

[arnie_uk]

ryans is pretty special, field general and solid is a severe understatement, consistent and fundamentally sound, smart player. hightower not as much, you seem to be underestimating ryans a bit tho

really only ever seen ryans in a 34 and he underwhelmed, so I may have never seen him in his suited formation much.

[arnie_uk]

Honestly, the 2012 draft disappointed me. I didn't like Upshaw or Hightower. At the time, I wanted us to draft Jeffrey, Wagner, David, Trumaine Johnson, and Dwayne Allen before Upshaw. Just think for a moment. If we took Wagner or David ahead of Upshaw then we likely never would've needed Arthur Brown or even Mosley. It just baffles me, especially when even then I considered both players to be very good LB prospects. I know you were very much against us taking Upshaw

Hell, if we took Dwayne Allen maybe we would've done even better when we lost Pitta. I know Allen was considered a top TE protect.

i too would have like Johnson, but Jeffrey was the one I wanted badly. Even in like January when many said upshaw would be a top 15 pick, I was adamant, he had no pass rush and would fall in the draft. I'm still adamant we could have got him where we took ok, allowing us to draft Glenn or Jeffrey where we took him.

What annoys me even more is how we can have a player like upshaw and then stark contrast in oher. Upshaw showing up overweight every year thus far, pisses the hell out of me.

But back to Hightower I'd expect more of a competent mlb, like Mosley to come from a first round pick. I mean we got ellerbe undrsfted and he's better than Hightower, or what about Bart scott, he offers everything Hightower does. Run stuffing linebackers shouldn't be praised as good players in this day and age. If you want a player with one strength, you want him as a mlb, to be able to defend the pass, or as a olb to rush the passer.

Run stuffers should be late round picks not late first early second round players. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, unfortunately, because Bart scott was one of my favourite players. Loved a guy that could blow up a full back and take a running back down for a loss, but they just don't have high value anymore.

[ravensnick]

i too would have like Johnson, but Jeffrey was the one I wanted badly. Even in like January when many said upshaw would be a top 15 pick, I was adamant, he had no pass rush and would fall in the draft. I'm still adamant we could have got him where we took ok, allowing us to draft Glenn or Jeffrey where we took him.

What annoys me even more is how we can have a player like upshaw and then stark contrast in oher. Upshaw showing up overweight every year thus far, pisses the hell out of me.

But back to Hightower I'd expect more of a competent mlb, like Mosley to come from a first round pick. I mean we got ellerbe undrsfted and he's better than Hightower, or what about Bart scott, he offers everything Hightower does. Run stuffing linebackers shouldn't be praised as good players in this day and age. If you want a player with one strength, you want him as a mlb, to be able to defend the pass, or as a olb to rush the passer.

Run stuffers should be late round picks not late first early second round players. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, unfortunately, because Bart scott was one of my favourite players. Loved a guy that could blow up a full back and take a running back down for a loss, but they just don't have high value anymore.

Wouldn't agree. Ellerbe looked good in our system but his injury prone and looked bad in Miami. I'm sure every team would like Jeffrey right now. 

[GrimCoconut]

i too would have like Johnson, but Jeffrey was the one I wanted badly. Even in like January when many said upshaw would be a top 15 pick, I was adamant, he had no pass rush and would fall in the draft. I'm still adamant we could have got him where we took ok, allowing us to draft Glenn or Jeffrey where we took him.

What annoys me even more is how we can have a player like upshaw and then stark contrast in oher. Upshaw showing up overweight every year thus far, pisses the hell out of me.

But back to Hightower I'd expect more of a competent mlb, like Mosley to come from a first round pick. I mean we got ellerbe undrsfted and he's better than Hightower, or what about Bart scott, he offers everything Hightower does. Run stuffing linebackers shouldn't be praised as good players in this day and age. If you want a player with one strength, you want him as a mlb, to be able to defend the pass, or as a olb to rush the passer.

Run stuffers should be late round picks not late first early second round players. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, unfortunately, because Bart scott was one of my favourite players. Loved a guy that could blow up a full back and take a running back down for a loss, but they just don't have high value anymore.

Yeah, I hear you. That's how I feel as well. I really wanted Alshon Jeffrey in that draft quite a bit, and now looking back on it I'm even angrier we took Upshaw over him. Granted, you never know how he would turn out here, but guaranteed he would've been better than Doss and probably would've made the transition from Boldin much smoother. I liked Johnson because I saw a good FS in him, and still do. And yeah, we could've just taken Glenn over KO, and then took someone else where we took KO, perhaps freaking Dwayne Allen to be that other TE. It just makes me mad when I think about it.

 

Hightower wasn't worth the 1st round grade. I remember adamantly discussing how he would be a poor pick for us, and I still believe that. He just isn't good in coverage. He's too freaking slow. He's like a tank out there. As you said, he's not worth a 1st round pick. I wouldn't take him until the 3rd. The value just isn't there.

[GrimCoconut]

Wouldn't agree. Ellerbe looked good in our system but his injury prone and looked bad in Miami. I'm sure every team would like Jeffrey right now. 

Arnie and myself were a part of a small group that advocated for us to draft Jeffrey. I understand that you wouldn't know that, since you weren't around then, but it's true. It's not about looking back when you have the foresight to say that you want Jeffrey over Upshaw.

[52520Andrew]

Lets hope Mosley don't end up like every other Bama player...

 

He won't, I guarantee it

[BmoreBird22]

i too would have like Johnson, but Jeffrey was the one I wanted badly. Even in like January when many said upshaw would be a top 15 pick, I was adamant, he had no pass rush and would fall in the draft. I'm still adamant we could have got him where we took ok, allowing us to draft Glenn or Jeffrey where we took him.

What annoys me even more is how we can have a player like upshaw and then stark contrast in oher. Upshaw showing up overweight every year thus far, pisses the hell out of me.

Run stuffers should be late round picks not late first early second round players. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, unfortunately, because Bart scott was one of my favourite players. Loved a guy that could blow up a full back and take a running back down for a loss, but they just don't have high value anymore.

I wanted Alshon Jeffrey or Cordy Glenn. When they traded back, I was sure both those two would get picked, and when they didn't, I was screaming for them to get picked. Very disappointed to have missed out on both of them. 

 

Have we heard anything about Upshaw yet, or has he not reported yet? He seemed pretty committed to fixing that mistake this year, so one can hope that he learned. 

 

I think as far as Upshaw goes, he's a lot better in coverage than I think people realize. He probably ever won't be a guy who can turn and run with those freakish athletic tight ends or running backs, but he can bully tight ends off the LOS and plays fairly well in zone. I would like to see him trim down, by a decent amount, to be able to gain more quickness as a pass rusher, but I've kinda wondered why the Ravens didn't consider switching Upshaw to ILB.

[JoeyFlex5]

I wanted Alshon Jeffrey or Cordy Glenn. When they traded back, I was sure both those two would get picked, and when they didn't, I was screaming for them to get picked. Very disappointed to have missed out on both of them. 

 

Have we heard anything about Upshaw yet, or has he not reported yet? He seemed pretty committed to fixing that mistake this year, so one can hope that he learned. 

 

I think as far as Upshaw goes, he's a lot better in coverage than I think people realize. He probably ever won't be a guy who can turn and run with those freakish athletic tight ends or running backs, but he can bully tight ends off the LOS and plays fairly well in zone. I would like to see him trim down, by a decent amount, to be able to gain more quickness as a pass rusher, but I've kinda wondered why the Ravens didn't consider switching Upshaw to ILB.

upshaw doesnt have the lateral quickness for ILB and that just about sums it up, unless theyre running directly up the middle with no chance of changing direction, then i dont think he would be a good fit there and i would guess the coaches know that. 

 

i was very upset with the upshaw pick, i wanted cordy glenn, looking back that probably wouldve been our best bet considering center last year was possibly the weakest position this franchise has ever had.

[arnie_uk]

upshaw doesnt have the lateral quickness for ILB and that just about sums it up, unless theyre running directly up the middle with no chance of changing direction, then i dont think he would be a good fit there and i would guess the coaches know that.

i was very upset with the upshaw pick, i wanted cordy glenn, looking back that probably wouldve been our best bet considering center last year was possibly the weakest position this franchise has ever had.

glenn is a tackle or guard not centre

[JoeyFlex5]

glenn is a tackle or guard not centre

really? who was the first round center that was recently linked to us late in the first?

[Willbacker]

I like the way the Ravens instead of reaching are grabbing best available which just happened to be defensive players for the last couple years. Our DLine is definitely getting a boost with youth and if a couple(Lewis-Moore,Jernigan,Urban or a UDFA) can get in the rotation and be forces you can see them taking places of guys like Canty and Ngata in the future. At least those 2 wouldn't have to play as much so they can always be at high energy. I firmly believe this is the most important part of the D cuz you need to wear out the opposing OLine to effect both aspects of the offense. I know. Capt Obvious. Thing is the rest of the D is able to feast only if the DLine plays well and I like the way Ozzie keeps infusing the youth on this particular part of the D.

[MTRavensFan]

really? who was the first round center that was recently linked to us late in the first?

Peter Konz?

A lot of mocks had him going to us, but he fell to Atlanta in the 2nd after we took Upshaw. They're not happy.