Barnes To Olb

[ravensfan160]

I think the Ravens should consider this. Not so much for this year but a year or two from now. Who knows how much longer Pryce will be here so we'll need to replace him. We also need to get more speed at linebacker. Lets face it our group is not going to win many track meets (Ray is still great but slow, Suggs fell to us in the draft because of how slow he is, JJ used to play DT). Bart Scott is our fastest and he'll probably be let go. We need more speed to be more effective blitzing and in pass coverage. What do you all think?

[Lancaster Raven]

I agree that we need to start recruiting some new defensive players. Ray Lewis is in his 13th season, and not to mention that his contract expires this year. Suggs is a great pass rusher, but his performance seems to be sporadic, and unpredictable. I really like Ngata's performance now, but a lot of it should be rearranged for next year.

[20ravens52]

[quote name='Lancaster Raven' post='106240' date='Dec 15 2008, 03:25 PM']I agree that we need to start recruiting some new defensive players. Ray Lewis is in his 13th season, and not to mention that his contract expires this year. Suggs is a great pass rusher, but his performance seems to be sporadic, and unpredictable. I really like Ngata's performance now, but a lot of it should be rearranged for next year.[/quote]


suggs' performances seem unpredictable because he is not always rushing the qb. He is also playing some dropback coverage, and he is doing an excellent job.

I think it would be smart to move Barnes to OLB based on the reasons stated. We need more speed at LB, and he is also very physical which is another plus especially on this D.

[52Kia Kaha92]

i was really impressed with barnes yesterday, he was in there quite a bit and was easily beating his blocks and getting to the qb, i counted 3 hurries for barnes and he nearly got a sack, he played really well yesterday and i think we should move JJ inside next season as he is very strong, great at shedding blocks but lucks the speed on the outside, he did great inside on the giants game, he blew right pass the guard to get a sack, so then we could have the speedy barnes on the outside

so next year it will look like this hopefully

Suggs - JJ- Lewis - Barnes
Ngata - Gregg - Pryce/Tyson Jackson??

that gives us a great linebcaker pass rush and on the outside we have someone that a big right tackle wont be able to contain as barnes is so fast.

Suggs could not surrive as a 3-4 end by the way, as i think thats what the ttitle implies

[Ravens52]

Do you guys realize how valuable Scott is? He'd be wayyyy harder to replace then Suggs. We have very limited depth to replace Scott's position but we have two studs in McClain and Barnes to take Suggs' place. Scott plays a different position then both of them therefore, they can't replace Scott. I say we drop Suggs' and keep Scott around for a much cheaper price.

[Lancaster Raven]

[quote name='20ravens52' post='106279' date='Dec 15 2008, 04:05 PM']suggs' performances seem unpredictable because he is not always rushing the qb. He is also playing some dropback coverage, and he is doing an excellent job.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say he was doing bad all around. I simply meant that when he does rush the passer, it seems unpredictable. Don't think I have anything against him. Suggs is one of their most impressive players, and is just as good as anyone on the defense.

[#1 D]

You know it's funny, because whenev i play madden online, i always put barnes in for OLB (switch w/suggs), switch haloti with suggs in RE and start suggs in Nose guard with bannan backing up. now that would be beastly!

[BringingtheBlitz]

I have the utmost faith in Antwan Barnes' development, he is going to be a mosnter in years to come. As soon as I heard that Ray had to tell him to slow it down during his rookie training camp, I knew he was going to be a vital part of our linebacking corps in the future. Let us not forget that we picked up Gooden, another product of the U, this past draft. I love Bart Scott, he is one of the players whose jerseys I own. If he is the player we choose not to sign out of Sizzle/Scott/Ray, I will be sad to see him go. If Sizzle is chosen as the one we are not going to keep, I will have similar feelings. These are guys that have grown up in the Ravens defensive system, players that we have cheered on for years. Both are excellent football players, but I know that if we are forced to part ways with either of them, our system has proven itself as being capable of crafting college talent into Pro Bowl caliber players, and we already have another up and comer ready to fill their shoes.

We should also keep in mind that we don't have Kelly Gregg this year, which I think is part of the reason in our sack numbers not being as high as we are used to. That is not to say that Banaan hasn't done an admirable job playing in Gregg's absence. But he is a Pro Bowl caliber NT (despite not being recognized as such, but thats a whole issue in itself), and its hard to replace his presence. I believe his absence allows our opponents' offense lines some more opportunity to focus on our blitzing LBs.

[52Kia Kaha92]

who cares about sacks when we lead the league in picks, i would rather have picks than sacks

[macbrak]

Don't forget run stopping, this comes at the loss of some sacks.

[RAVENOUS]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='106377' date='Dec 15 2008, 06:26 PM']who cares about sacks when we lead the league in picks, i would rather have picks than sacks[/quote]
Good point , and in a way pressuring the quarterback leads to picks so it compliments each other. no pick, he either threw it away or you got the sack, pressur'd the qb, he forces a bad throw, you get picks.

[BringingtheBlitz]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='106377' date='Dec 15 2008, 06:26 PM']who cares about sacks when we lead the league in picks, i would rather have picks than sacks[/quote]

What I forgot to write when I was talking about our sack numbers is that our INT numbers prove that we are obviously still successfully pressuring opposing QBs, as I think most can agree that a QB being under durress is the reason for the majority of INTs. And I don't think anyone would argue that an INT is generally more welcome than a sack, considering it means a change of possession.

[52Kia Kaha92]

^ fair enough lol

[macbrak]

They're getting lots of pressure, just can't seem to get that extra step most of the time.

[52Kia Kaha92]

^ thats because they are all slow, if it where barnes it would be a sack lol
we just need speed and well lead the league in sacks and ints

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='106401' date='Dec 15 2008, 06:45 PM']^ thats because they are all slow, if it where barnes it would be a sack lol
we just need speed and well lead the league in sacks and ints[/quote]
You're right and that was basically my point when I started this thread. Offensive tackles are too big and strong now to be consistently beat by brute strength. Neither Suggs or JJ has the speed to consistently get a step on and go around an offensive tackles. Sure they do sometimes but nowhere near the level of the top pass rushers in the league. You look at Lamar Woodley, James Harrison, and DeMarcus Ware and they get to the quarterback with speed. Speed isn't only important in pass rushing its important in coverage. I think if those guys were faster a lot of those short routes the Steelers ran on us either wouldn't have been completed or stopped before they could run for the first down. Bottom line we need more speed.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='52Kia Kaha92' post='106296' date='Dec 15 2008, 04:28 PM']i was really impressed with barnes yesterday, he was in there quite a bit and was easily beating his blocks and getting to the qb, i counted 3 hurries for barnes and he nearly got a sack, he played really well yesterday and i think we should move JJ inside next season as he is very strong, great at shedding blocks but lucks the speed on the outside, he did great inside on the giants game, he blew right pass the guard to get a sack, so then we could have the speedy barnes on the outside

so next year it will look like this hopefully

Suggs - JJ- Lewis - Barnes
Ngata - Gregg - Pryce/Tyson Jackson??

that gives us a great linebcaker pass rush and on the outside we have someone that a big right tackle wont be able to contain as barnes is so fast.

[b]Suggs could not surrive as a 3-4 end by the way, as i think thats what the ttitle implies[/b][/quote]
Why do you think Suggs wouldn't survive? He was a DE in college and we simply converted him to OLB. His biggest strength is his pure strength and ability to stop the run. In a 3-4 defense those are the 2 key attributes for a solid DE. In fact the key to the 3-4 is strength on the line and speed at linebacker. In fact I think Jarret Johnson should be moved to DE as well but with the personnel we have right now it doesn't fit. Right now nobody has a better combination of that than Pittsburg and thats why they are the best defense in the league.

As a side note for all you Madden gamers out there, Suggs rating as an OLB is 88 but if you reclassify him as a DE he improves to something in the low to mid 90's. Just something to think about. Obviously others feel the way I do.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='ravensfan160' post='106218' date='Dec 15 2008, 03:01 PM']I think the Ravens should consider this. Not so much for this year but a year or two from now. Who knows how much longer Pryce will be here so we'll need to replace him. We also need to get more speed at linebacker. Lets face it our group is not going to win many track meets (Ray is still great but slow, Suggs fell to us in the draft because of how slow he is, JJ used to play DT). Bart Scott is our fastest and he'll probably be let go. We need more speed to be more effective blitzing and in pass coverage. What do you all think?[/quote]
Barnes does play OLB sometimes, he also plays DE sometimes. The ravens have an official depth chart just for the sake of having a depth chart but we don't play our players at those positions every play. Rex has a ton of substitutions with guys playing everywhere. Thats why you see Suggs at DE and OLB and Barnes is used similarly, the difference is that Barnes is not on the field as much, because we have a lot of depth. Douglas comes in to play DE, Ngata will play DE sometimes and DT most of the time etc. I've even seen Ngata at LB a couple times.

We also have Tavares Gooden, a 3rd rd pick from miami, and i'm telling you this guy is going to be a huge surprise like Scott or AD was. We have a lot of depth at all of our positions, especially because these players can play multiple positions. So even if some of the players get up there in age, they won't be playing every single snap, allowing them to stay fresh. I think ozzie will take the best players on the board in the draft, not go looking to add depth at LB or DE or something.

[Flacco for President]

If suggs could consistently focus on his strength which is rushing the passer, and move someone else to LB, he would be extremely good, and with his athleticism and hands (ability to bat balls, and pluck touch passes from mid-air) he could compete with the aformentioned names like ware and harrison for sacks and tackles for loss, but he lacks the discipline to stop the run (gettin beat on the bounce out around the corner in the giants game multiple times).

If we keep anyone, I hope we keep Suggs as a rusher, Scott at his current LB spot and hope Ray can take a pay cut to play for a title.

[Fred Sanford]

[quote name='Ravens52' post='106316' date='Dec 15 2008, 04:56 PM']Do you guys realize how valuable Scott is? He'd be wayyyy harder to replace then Suggs. We have very limited depth to replace Scott's position but we have two studs in McClain and Barnes to take Suggs' place. Scott plays a different position then both of them therefore, they can't replace Scott. I say we drop Suggs' and keep Scott around for a much cheaper price.[/quote]

Eh, Jameel McClain plays the Mike and SaM positions. He's no replacement for Suggs, though he could be a Will. McClain, Gooden, even Greisen could step in for Scott. Barnes is fine to replace Suggs but he's no good making open field tackles, and is very up and down in his play. He makes good plays, he makes bad plays. Suggs only makes great, game changing plays, but he doesn't make them OFTEN enough, or make just your run of the mill sack. I wish every year could be like '06 for us, sack-wise. Quarterbacks always release it a microsecond before we get to them.

[T-Sizzle55]

[quote name='ravensfan160' post='106218' date='Dec 15 2008, 03:01 PM']I think the Ravens should consider this. Not so much for this year but a year or two from now. Who knows how much longer Pryce will be here so we'll need to replace him. We also need to get more speed at linebacker. Lets face it our group is not going to win many track meets (Ray is still great but slow, Suggs fell to us in the draft because of how slow he is, JJ used to play DT). Bart Scott is our fastest and he'll probably be let go. We need more speed to be more effective blitzing and in pass coverage. What do you all think?[/quote]

I agree, but that's why we got Antwan Barnes (fastest LB at the combine 4.45 40yrd , great first step), and Tavares Gooden (One of the fastest LBs at the combine 4.53 40yrd).

[52Kia Kaha92]

[quote name='ravensfan160' post='106652' date='Dec 16 2008, 09:32 AM']Why do you think Suggs wouldn't survive? He was a DE in college and we simply converted him to OLB. His biggest strength is his pure strength and ability to stop the run. In a 3-4 defense those are the 2 key attributes for a solid DE. In fact the key to the 3-4 is strength on the line and speed at linebacker. In fact I think Jarret Johnson should be moved to DE as well but with the personnel we have right now it doesn't fit. Right now nobody has a better combination of that than Pittsburg and thats why they are the best defense in the league.

As a side note for all you Madden gamers out there, Suggs rating as an OLB is 88 but if you reclassify him as a DE he improves to something in the low to mid 90's. Just something to think about. Obviously others feel the way I do.[/quote]

do you think suggs could play as a 3-4 defensive end on every play, a 4-3 end, hell yes he could be in a 3-4 i doubt it, no way he could do that. also with the madden thing, to be a good de in madden all you need is speed and an avergae power/finese move and suggs has both but that is a 4-3 end, not a 3-4 end and also that is madden not the real nfl

[raylewislapsu]

I'm as big of a Suggs fan as the next ravens fan but he's going to want way too much money to hang on to next year. I was at the pitt. game last week and the dude is unreal, but he is no DT, not with the 3-4 scheme we run. What we need is a monster DT to replace Pryce, have Barnes fill in at OLB and to resign Bart Scott. He's only 28 and will cost so much less to keep, not to mention his ability to pass protect and stuff the run inside the numbers. But it's not even his capabilities that make Scott so valuable, it's his veteran leadership and that nasty hit you in the mouth mean attitude that represents what Raven's football is all about. I don't know exactly what kind of room we have to work with next year's cap, but Lewis will get a contract to end his career in Baltimore as he should, and if we could free up some of Mcgahee and McCallister's money to make room to sign all three linebackers I would feel good about making a Super Bowl run.

[macbrak]

Hopefully the winning season this year will warm Suggs wallet. There is no saving from McGahee unless he restructures and even then with the end of the player agreement contract thingy I don't thing we can do anything with it anyway. To drop/trade him now is an 11 million cap hit.

Savings will be in: McAlister and Boller (most likely) being gone and retirees off the books (JO, McNair).

They'll probably be some hard decisions with some of the extra depth due to key players coming off IR.

[Sharkey]

Guess we will see what happens with Scott and Suggs in the meanwhile. I think Suggs is gonna go, but I'd like to see him stay. Rather see Scott go honestly.

Yeah Ray will re-sign and hopefully Rex will stay aboard until Ray retires. By then we should win a superbowl and when that happens Rex will probably get a Head Coaching Job and Ray can step in and be our defensive coordinator. He pretty much does it now and can you say player/coach? That would be pretty cool huh?