The Vent Thread 2014 Draft

[redrum52]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that last sentence.

I'll use myself as an example since I can only speak for me. In my mock draft I had us taking offensive players with the first three picks. Anyone who says they didn't want at least one offensive player in the first two rounds is full of crap lol...

But despite that, I feel that our draft was brilliant, even though there is a certain pick I hated, and still do (Gilmore instead of either Yankey or Abbederis). We got a tremendous amount of talent in the draft, and let's face it, as bad as the offense was, the defense needed a good bit of help too.

So to me, I have no problem looking at this draft and saying 'Ozzie strikes again'. I am a total Ozzie homer, but I have no problem whining like a 3 year old when he reaches on a TE by about 50 rounds

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE expected offense with 3/4 first picks, with the expectation that the only one not spent on offense would be a safety. I'm not going to lie, still a little pissed, but we'll see how it works out. All that wr talent gone.

[ravensdfan]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that last sentence.

I'll use myself as an example since I can only speak for me. In my mock draft I had us taking offensive players with the first three picks. Anyone who says they didn't want at least one offensive player in the first two rounds is full of crap lol...

But despite that, I feel that our draft was brilliant, even though there is a certain pick I hated, and still do (Gilmore instead of either Yankey or Abbederis). We got a tremendous amount of talent in the draft, and let's face it, as bad as the offense was, the defense needed a good bit of help too.

So to me, I have no problem looking at this draft and saying 'Ozzie strikes again'. I am a total Ozzie homer, but I have no problem whining like a 3 year old when he reaches on a TE by about 50 rounds

 

Every pick's a pro bowler & future HoF player. No one should dare to question Ozzie blah blah blah lol That was what I meant.

 

I don't mind Gilmore too much because we did need that TE with blocking skills but I felt it was a reach. I just realized you don't like the only offensive player we took early lmao

 

I don't like Brooks, well not really don't like him - just don't think he's the player at FS Ozzie talked about adding & pretty much promised. And IMO we passed on such a player.

 

I'm still concerned about RB & CB. Not to mention RT. I know everyone keeps on talking about moving this player or that player if Wagner struggles ( didn't he already struggle mightily last season?) but relying on a line shuffle mid-season doesn't instill a lot of faith to me.

 

I mean, it wasn't even that we went defense as much as we drafted 2 positions we drafted last year and didn't even truly fill our needs on defense.

 

We'll see how it all plays out. Kubaik is a great upgrade at OC but even he is limited by the players available.

[flynismo]

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE expected offense with 3/4 first picks, with the expectation that the only one not spent on offense would be a safety. I'm not going to lie, still a little pissed, but we'll see how it works out. All that wr talent gone.

Yeah, pretty crazy that this might turn out to be one of the greatest WR classes in history (it says a lot when OBJ is the consensus third best WR; most other years, he'd be the first one off the board), and we walked away with Campanro.

[flynismo]

Every pick's a pro bowler & future HoF player. No one should dare to question Ozzie blah blah blah lol That was what I meant.

 

I don't mind Gilmore too much because we did need that TE with blocking skills but I felt it was a reach. I just realized you don't like the only offensive player we took early lmao

 

I don't like Brooks, well not really don't like him - just don't think he's the player at FS Ozzie talked about adding & pretty much promised. And IMO we passed on such a player.

 

I'm still concerned about RB & CB. Not to mention RT. I know everyone keeps on talking about moving this player or that player if Wagner struggles ( didn't he already struggle mightily last season?) but relying on a line shuffle mid-season doesn't instill a lot of faith to me.

 

I mean, it wasn't even that we went defense as much as we drafted 2 positions we drafted last year and didn't even truly fill our needs on defense.

 

We'll see how it all plays out. Kubaik is a great upgrade at OC but even he is limited by the players available.

 

Maybe that's what has so many people pissed, when it comes down to it. Last year, we took a ILB, S and DT with our first three picks. This year, with our first three picks, we took ..... a ILB, S and DT. Kind of feels like Ozzie is saying "my bad" for last year....

[BmoreBird22]

Brent Urban is a 2nd round prospect who's talents are off the charts but was given a 3rd round grade because of injury. The fact that we were able to get him at the bottom of the 4th round was incredible. His player comparison is to JJ Wat because that's how highly rated his NFL potential is. Maybe the name isn't as familiar to you as it should be because he was a trench guy on a Virginia team, but somewhere on this board I broke him down and dropped some clues. Keith McGill/Brent Urban was the goal. Once McGill came off the board we were certain Urban wasn't going to make it to us. The fact that we got him anyway is like doing a slam dunk, down by 1 just before time expires in the 4th quarter. 

 

On a side note:

 

-We were in trade talks with the Rams for our 17th overall pick. They were going to pony up the house for Zach Martin - 2nd & 3rd this year + 1st next year. The plan was to take the blockbuster then trade back into the 1st, but the Cowboys nixed that.

 

-We would have taken Mosely in the top 10.

 

-If Mike Evans made it passed Tampa we were going to trade up for him. 

 

-Lorenzo Taliaferro is the biggest sleeper prospect you've never heard of. There were only a few backs targeted to fit Gary's scheme and Lorenzo was one of the names a top the list. When he turns into our version of Adrian Foster the grumbles will turn into smiles and the complains will turn into cheers.

 

-Urschel is a gem. Period. There are good players and then theyre are special players. Urschel is special.

 

-Crocket Gilmore is a Gary Kubiak player, a Raven type of player. He's going to play a big role in what we can accomplish on offense. Look forward to 3 TE sets this year. He'll eventually become the 1-2 punch to Pitta that will compliment our run game beautifully. 

 

This draft was special. IA lot of starters were drafted this year and then exciting news is we're still not done making moves. People need to hold tight and enjoy the process..

If you are going to throw anything like that out there as fact, it would be smart to at least source it. I could say that we were interested in trading up to #3 for Watkins by giving up our firsts for the next 10 years. Doesn't mean it is true

Beat me to it

[Tank 92]

I think if anyone says they didn't think the Ravens would go O line or WR with their first couple of picks they would be lying.

 

This year's draft further proves Oz and Co. hold true to the BPA philosophy. There may be the occasional exception, but generally it's just the way they draft. 

 

 

[PolishRifle]

Not true. I made one tongue in cheek comment about him not being a wizard but a man. And as such, he does make mistakes. In other posts I even said that he is great at what he does - but that didn't mean he doesn't ever make mistakes.

 

As for the Flacco comparison, most criticisms are fine. It is the over the top people (we all know who they are) that get bashed because they are nonsensical. And certainly, with them, the Flacco supporters enjoy going over the top the other way.

 

Considering all the whining that went on last season about this offense, all the pre-draft talk how we needed to go offense and all the offensive talent that was there, it is amusing to see some turn on a dime. At least most of the Flacco haters are consistent. They criticize him even when he does play well.

 

The last post wasn't even about the draft per se - it was the very cult nature of the post I responded to.

It's odd how many Flacco critics suddenly assume, that Oz didn't have to do much to help Joe in the draft. Evidently suddenly he CAN carry the offense. 

[PoeDinkum]

Revising some of what I posted a week ago as it is obviously still relevant...

 

 

Look folks, people are entitled to their own opinions about personnel, especially in a thread labelled "Vent Thread."

 

It is a copout to respond to criticism and second-guessing of draft strategy with mundane arguments such as 1) ...you are not a professional what do you know 2) ... OZ has done a great job for years, pipe down 3) ...you weren't in the war room and have no idea, etc.

 

Now I am not saying that EVERY contra-opinion is valid, has merit, and/or has to be accepted, but let's do our best to persuade one another with some sort of information without blanket statements about lack of scouting qualifications or question one another's fandom.

 

The experiences people have had watching, playing, coaching, and/or learning this sport at various levels leads them to perceive and conceive what works and what doesn't. They share their opinion, seems natural to me. 

 

Personally, I was pretty grumpy this time last week about Crockett's selection, but what has persuaded me to see the pick more favorably is not folks questioning my allegiance to OZ, the team, or whether I luvs me some Flacco, but folks rationally explaining the perceived value of the pick...

 

Fact is some draft venters will be right as some of the players being complained about will not be on this roster in 3 years, and some of the draft defenders will be correct too as some of the players will. 

 

We won't know how it plays out until games are played. In the meantime keep the stats, videos, information coming, but enough with ad hominem or authoritative arguments.

 

Bring on some preseason, puhlease!

[harfordravenfan]

Couldn't just let it lie. Still, a year later and nothing we can do and someone will still bring it up.

In his defense, we didn't have a "vent thread" back then :-)

[redrum52]

It's odd how many Flacco critics suddenly assume, that Oz didn't have to do much to help Joe in the draft. Evidently suddenly he CAN carry the offense.

New OC, resigning your favorite target, trading for a new C, trading for a LT last year, keeping JJ, getting another TE (with muh more reliable hands and route running) and oh yeah, Steve Smith (another reliable set of hands). Yea, Ozzie did nothing for him. I know it's not the draft but a lot has been done to help Flacco. I dont think ANYONE expected the draft to go the way it did, but nothing we can do now, unless you're happy venting. These changes keep a stability at most positions (chemistry wise) and bring in a mind that is probably top notch when it comes to scheme and play calling. We can complain about depth, but in many cases if a certain position goes down you're screwed regardless.

[BmoreBird22]

In his defense, we didn't have a "vent thread" back then :-)

But this is the draft thread. I think they mods are scared to have a regular vent thread because the board might implode

[flynismo]

But this is the draft thread. I think they mods are scared to have a regular vent thread because the board might implode

Nah, I made the 'crying thread' a few years back; that went on for quite a while, was actually a pretty fun thread....then again, there were a lot less crazies around back then

[PolishRifle]

New OC, resigning your favorite target, trading for a new C, trading for a LT last year, keeping JJ, getting another TE (with muh more reliable hands and route running) and oh yeah, Steve Smith (another reliable set of hands). Yea, Ozzie did nothing for him. I know it's not the draft but a lot has been done to help Flacco. I dont think ANYONE expected the draft to go the way it did, but nothing we can do now, unless you're happy venting. These changes keep a stability at most positions (chemistry wise) and bring in a mind that is probably top notch when it comes to scheme and play calling. We can complain about depth, but in many cases if a certain position goes down you're screwed regardless.

 

I never said, that nothing has been done, but let's not pretend like it's a lot also. Kubiak is a nice addition and so is getting Monroe, but our new C was only the 22nd rated C by PFF (it's not like we got Mack). Keeping JJ is nice, but he's only good for a big play of two and is more of a kick returner (at best a #3WR, probably more like a #4). Pitta and Daniels are good pass catching TEs, who struggle to stay healthy. Daniels especially is probably on his way out of the league. Steve Smith is another nice addition, but we are not getting the Steve Smith of old. For us, he'll be more of a 3rd down guy and that's it.

Our offense is more of patch up job, a solid patch up job, but let's not pretend that we're the Saints all of a sudden. 

[redrum52]

I never said, that nothing has been done, but let's not pretend like it's a lot also. Kubiak is a nice addition and so is getting Monroe, but our new C was only the 22nd rated C by PFF (it's not like we got Mack). Keeping JJ is nice, but he's only good for a big play of two and is more of a kick returner (at best a #3WR, probably more like a #4). Pitta and Daniels are good pass catching TEs, who struggle to stay healthy. Daniels especially is probably on his way out of the league. Steve Smith is another nice addition, but we are not getting the Steve Smith of old. For us, he'll be more of a 3rd down guy and that's it.

Our offense is more of patch up job, a solid patch up job, but let's not pretend that we're the Saints all of a sudden.

Nowhere near the Saints, personnel or coaching wise(offensively), but I like this team more due to our all around balance. The offense should see much improvement. KO just being able to play is better than a fully healthy AQ Shipley and you don't get worse than the worst C in the league. Don't need to be the best. If the offense was even average last year, I'm pretty confident the team at least makes playoffs.

[dontbnvus]

       I apologize in advance for such a long post. I have not posted in a very long time and just thought I would throw in my two cents. I don't feel the need to run anyone down for their opinion or blast anyone who does not like this draft. I will however, give reasons why I loved this draft. I think Ozzie and the front office have done EXACTLY what they said they were going to do.

 

       For those that remember, right after the super bowl, Ozzie stated that his first order of business was to bolster the middle of the defense. Last years draft he did exactly that. We drafted a Safety, a MLB, and a DT with our first three picks. We also added several stop gaps. ( Daryl Smith turned out to be outstanding for us )  For those that think rebuilding a defense in one off season while being under the restraints of the salary cap is easy, all I can ask of you is to think about that. Elam , I feel is going to be a great strong safety for this team. The guy has shown he has the skills needed to excel at that position. Brown, I still have a load of confidence in, he may just need a little more time. Williams, I honestly feel is going to be a beast and could end up being a fan favorite. ( just an opinion )  That draft class is a fine start in the rebuilding process.  Was I personally a bit disappointed that we did not get a stud flashy offensive player early in the draft? Of course. But I could see the plan and I like it.  

 

       This team went eight and eight. We were just a few plays away from making the playoffs. After the super bowl I could see how many players we lost. We were picked clean in free agency and retirement. It was definitely time to rebuild this defense. Yes, we took a chance on offense and injuries and murphy's law bit us in the backside. It happens. It happens to every team. Teams have to take chances on players and schemes. It is the nature of the business. (again, cap restraints)  But we did manage to infuse the defense with some very promising young blood. And just as Ozzie stated, it was all in the middle of the defense from front to back.  

 

       Fast forward to this years draft. I will agree there was a lot of talented offensive players on the boards. We can all agree or disagree on where these players should have been ranked on a value basis. I understand that right tackle is a big question mark. Certainly wide receiver is always a question mark on the Ravens. I just feel that we as fans do not have nearly the information on these players as the front offices of NFL teams have. Players slide and drop frequently. But typically we do not have a clue if they drop or rise on ACTUAL teams boards. All we have is what pundits feel about certain players. We as fans do not get to sit in on interviews or individual workouts. With all this being said, I feel the actual value of a player to a team is very very subjective. I for one trust our front office. I feel this team always seems to get a lot more from their draft picks than most other teams. Sure, sometimes we miss. But I would stack our FO up against anybody in the business. Not Everyone is going to be a star but a lot of our draftees tend to provide value to our team in one way or another. This is where I feel a lot of the trust in Ozzie comes from for a lot of people. Certainly for me.  

 

       Once again we end up taking a MLB, a DT, and a safety. The front office said it was purely chance. Hmmmm. I am not sure if that is 100 percent true or just FO talk. I do however, believe that we got outstanding value with our first three picks. Remember that draft picks are always a risk. There is always that chance you take in the player being NFL ready of a project.   Mosley, this guy is outstanding ! I am surprised we were able to get him to be frank. Make no mistake. CJ and Arthur are going to be a outstanding duo at mlb in the future. Jernigan, Another very high value pick. Kid is a monster. Ohhh and he did not fail a drug test. I guarantee if I took a test I would show up as diluted as well. I drink about 6 to 9  liters of water a day. Its up to you if you believe him or not. The FO apparently did and I feel they scored in the draft with him. Brooks, SCORE ! This kid has tremendous potential at free safety. I feel his upside at FREE SAFETY is the highest in the draft. As a pure FS at this moment I would have him ranked maybe second. There is a difference between being better suited for FS or SS.

 

       Take a step back and look. The entire middle of our defense has been filled with very promising, young, cheap, defensive players. Jernigan and WIlliams middle front. Mosley and Brown Middle. Elam and Brooks Back end.  I love it. In two drafts we have set ourselves up for a dominant defense again. Yes it may take a year for these guys to kick in. But just think of the possibilities. The talent is there.  

 

       As far as Marlon goes. I honestly do not feel that there was a more NFL ready receiver in this draft after the top three than he is. I put Brown above all of them as far as being ready to go. This guy has very real and very big upside. The guy gave us very good production on an anemic offense last season. He was a UDFA coming off a serious injury and yet still did very well. He handled the responsibility like a seasoned pro. I do not feel he is anywhere near his ceiling and that to me is reason enough to give him his chance. Seriously, Why draft a high pick rookie to sit at the bottom of the depth chart?  Frankly I think we are sitting good at receiver. We can not carry a all pro player sitting behind every position. I know, I get it, What if so and so goes down? Are you comfortable with such and such behind them?  Come on , that is always a question on every team in the NFL. Backups and backups to backups can NOT all be all pro.  And to answer the question...... Yes, absolutely I am very comfortable with Marlon as our third receiver on this team. And then if that happened that would make Jones number three. Still that is pretty darn good. ( again, my opinion.)

 

       Corner. Yup it is a question mark after Jimmy and Webb. It is time for the youngsters to step up and show they can handle it in camp. If not.... We find a stop gap vet.  Same thing applies with Right tackle.  Those are the two biggest question marks I see.  Seriously,  that is not bad for a team in rebuild mode.

 

       That is my reasoning for loving this draft. I know I probably wont change anyone's mind and that is ok. I just wanted to ramble on.  LOL  Ohhhhhhh.... and YES............ I wear the purple glasses and drink the purple kool aid and I am proud of it. I am a  Homer and always will be. But I can still form a opinion based on what I see. 5 of last six seasons making the playoffs, ( a few plays away, during rebuilding year for the sixth)  three afc championship games one superbowl tells me that Ozzie knows how to build a team. The man deserves a little faith even from the doubters.  

 

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

[PolishRifle]

Nowhere near the Saints, personnel or coaching wise(offensively), but I like this team more due to our all around balance. The offense should see much improvement. KO just being able to play is better than a fully healthy AQ Shipley and you don't get worse than the worst C in the league. Don't need to be the best. If the offense was even average last year, I'm pretty confident the team at least makes playoffs.

 

I don't think the team is balanced. You've got to admit, that we spend ALOT of time and effort on the defense. Far more than the offense. I know everyone is tired of hearing about the "Boldin trade", but it's a great example on how the offense is being treated by the FO. We traded away Flacco's favorite receiver, whom we could've used last season, to obtain a defensive player.

I like our defense alot. We should be atleast top 10, if not top 5 defensively, but you can't tell me, that there is even remotely as much care put into the offense as there was on defense and because of that, I still think Ozzie just expects Flacco and Kubiak to "make it work". Hence my original comment.

[redrum52]

I don't think the team is balanced. You've got to admit, that we spend ALOT of time and effort on the defense. Far more than the offense. I know everyone is tired of hearing about the "Boldin trade", but it's a great example on how the offense is being treated by the FO. We traded away Flacco's favorite receiver, whom we could've used last season, to obtain a defensive player.

I like our defense alot. We should be atleast top 10, if not top 5 defensively, but you can't tell me, that there is even remotely as much care put into the offense as there was on defense and because of that, I still think Ozzie just expects Flacco and Kubiak to "make it work". Hence my original comment.

I agree, but I think more care should always be put into the defense. Most times a strong defense with a decent offense will beat a strong offense with a usually weak defense. More times than not, the team with the better defense wins when it really matters. Think abiut this as well. There are more people used more frequently than on offense so more picks will usually go into it. Sub packages and different formations dictate who will be on the field. It's usually the same guys for the most part on offesne.

[flynismo]

Just a thought, not really relevant to anything...

how many of the people who do not like the Mosely pick wanted us to take T'eo?

[arnie_uk]

Just a thought, not really relevant to anything...

how many of the people who do not like the Mosely pick wanted us to take T'eo?

I don't think the comparison is fair, we didn't have Daryl smith and art brown then. I'm also not sure how many people don't like Mosley compared to just rather having an offensive player.

[flynismo]

I don't think the comparison is fair, we didn't have Daryl smith and art brown then. I'm also not sure how many people don't like Mosley compared to just rather having an offensive player.

Just FYI, I was one of the guys who wanted us to take T'eo; I'd definitely rather have had him than Brown or Elam.

[jazz1988]

Just a thought, not really relevant to anything...

how many of the people who do not like the Mosely pick wanted us to take T'eo?

 

I wanted us to draft T'eo and I thought he had the potentials to be the next general of our defense. We eventually drafted Arthur Brown instead and I thought he would  be  the guy but honestly he doesn't seem like a leader type guy and he hasn't shown yet that he can be every down type linebacker. Mosley isthe full package because he gives you leadership, can defend against the pass and run effectively and is really smart.

[Edgar]

 "Boldin trade", 

 

if it wasn't for the Boldin trade marlon Brown would have seen no time at receiver, may not have made the team. I know this was fortuitous and not a planned consequence of the trade. just an observation.

[RaineV1]

if it wasn't for the Boldin trade marlon Brown would have seen no time at receiver, may not have made the team. I know this was fortuitous and not a planned consequence of the trade. just an observation.

Also, it's not like the Ravens would have somehow won another Super Bowl if he was around. They might have won a game or two more, maybe snag the final wildcard spot and then lose in the first round. And then would have picked later in the draft and possibly gotten less talented players from it.

[0_o]

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

Great post. I believe you represent the sentiment that the majority of Ravens fan share. The one's that are always on here harping the worst, well, i guess you have to understand the thing about misery is it needs company. So it finds it's way to the forum boards and tries to bring down the spirit of what it means to be happy about our team. Haven't taken one snap this year and already people are quick to write the season off, these players have yet to take one snap in the NFL and already people are quick write this draft off as a failure. If ever a time to be hopeful and optimistic as fan, it's now. Thanks for bringing some positivity to the board. Good vibes.

 

I appreciated your vent and enjoyed the read.

[gabefergy]

Just a thought, not really relevant to anything...

how many of the people who do not like the Mosely pick wanted us to take T'eo?

Definitely not me. I didn't want to touch Te'o with a ten foot pole. I did want Arthur Brown though.

[SecretAgentMan]

Definitely not me. I didn't want to touch Te'o with a ten foot pole. I did want Arthur Brown though.

I was partial to Te'o. I thought he'd be decent in our scheme, but looking back on it he couldn't shed a block to save his life. Something Mosley can do and is good at doing.

 

I don't think we hate Mosley because we think he's bad(he's actually pretty good).. He wasn't a need though, and Dix was on the board. 

[gabefergy]

I was partial to Te'o. I thought he'd be decent in our scheme, but looking back on it he couldn't shed a block to save his life. Something Mosley can do and is good at doing.

 

I don't think we hate Mosley because we think he's bad(he's actually pretty good).. He wasn't a need though, and Dix was on the board. 

exactly

[BmoreBird22]

Definitely not me. I didn't want to touch Te'o with a ten foot pole. I did want Arthur Brown though.

I did not like Te'o one bit and thought he was absolutely overrated. I was always shocked to see people really thought he could go top 10. I was impartial to Brown, but was glad to get him in the second after how often I saw him pegged as a first rounder

[SecretAgentMan]

exactly

I gave the Mosley grade a B for that reason. He's got a high ceiling and low floor. But he wasn't a need. He was a BPA when we had Brown who played well in limited time last year..........

 

I think/hope he's a great player, but we took him with Dix their, or Pryor(I would've hated him), or in the second (even though I loved the Timmy pick) when Amaro, or Robinson, were there. Or when we took Gillmore with Lynch. 

 

Ozzie didn't have a bad talent draft, and we got better. But he didn't fill every need to it's maximum potential. Brooks is a good FS, but we could've had Dix. And this was a deep MLB draft and we could've gotten a Borland or a Zumwalt later. We could've taken an Amaro and waited for a Louis Nix or something like that.....

[flynismo]

I gave the Mosley grade a B for that reason. He's got a high ceiling and low floor. But he wasn't a need. He was a BPA when we had Brown who played well in limited time last year..........

I think/hope he's a great player, but we took him with Dix their, or Pryor(I would've hated him), or in the second (even though I loved the Timmy pick) when Amaro, or Robinson, were there. Or when we took Gillmore with Lynch.

Ozzie didn't have a bad talent draft, and we got better. But he didn't fill every need to it's maximum potential. Brooks is a good FS, but we could've had Dix. And this was a deep MLB draft and we could've gotten a Borland or a Zumwalt later. We could've taken an Amaro and waited for a Louis Nix or something like that.....

I think Brooks will be better than Dix. Then again, I think Dix will be a bust, so I guess that isn't a big vote of confidence for Brooks