The Vent Thread 2014 Draft

[ravensnick]

He's not even your non prototype that you can work with.  He needs a power scheme with Gs pulling or FBs blasting straight ahead.  He hasn't the patience for zone blocking.

Pierce stays healthy all season and Im fairly certain they go 50/50 and Pierce becomes the bellcow in the playoffs.

100% agreed. Pierce, if he stays healthy, is the man this year.

[maneman]

Good draft. Don't forget a couple defensive stops late in 4th quarter of a couple games last season and we are right back in playoffs. May, may not have gone far, but you at least want to get there. Ray will be back to being himself. We'll be ok. AFC North Champs

[AwakenTheDemon]

Long time, no see my BR.com friends.

 

Going through some of the pages here, it brings to mind my gut reaction to us drafting Torrey Smith a few years back. Some of you may remember how much I absolutely hated the pick. I tored it apart, and said how much of a wasted pick it would be. I then went on to admit I was wrong and eat my crow.

 

I will admit that I was furious at the first pick, and got more depressed after the second. Brooks eased my pain, then Crockett caused me more. Yeah, it stung to not draft the top free safety in the draft when he fell to us at 17. It stung to not draft an offensive tackle at all, and it stung to not draft a receiver until trading back in to get one in the 7th.

 

But let's really think about this for a minute, after I did, I'm not going to lie, I felt a lot better about our draft. Initially, I saw Mosley as the absolute "wrong" pick and as someone dumping on my favorite pick from last year's draft, Arthur Brown. I mean, Haha Clinton-Dix was sitting there, and Darian Stewart was the current starting free safety... someone who got dumped by the Rams. So yeah... I was down when I heard CJ Mosley's name called. But when push comes to shove, no matter how great Daryl Smith has been and will be, he's not young and I highly doubt he plays the entirety of his new four year deal with us.

 

Once Smith calls it a day, who do we really have inside? Brown, Bynes and McClellan. I like McClellan, and I like Bynes, but not as starters. Now, Mosley is a tremendous inside backer: Smart, instictive, strong, and a great tackler. He isn't quick, so to speak, but he reads what the offense is doing very well, and can play down hill phenominally. Quite honestly, he's exactly what we need for the future to carry on what Ray Lewis brought to this team, and Daryl Smith continued: An intelligant leader in the middle who can tackle, and tackle well. Plus, I see Mosley as being a more vocal leader than Daryl, who leads more by his play (not that I'm taking anything away from him). If he stays healthy, that spot is locked up for the long term.

 

When Daryl either retires or is released, Arthur Brown should be more than ready to step up and play next to CJ, and would be the perfect compliment, style wise. You'd have the vocal, do-it-all, thumper in Mosley, and the quick, rangy, excellent-in-coverage linebacker in Brown. If both men live up to their potential, the Ravens are set for the future. Now was Mosley the expected pick, and best value/need pick? No, I don't think so, and I think Ozzie took a huge risk passing on Clinton-Dix and Pryor (although I wasn't really sold on Pryor as a true free safety, but I digress). Yeah, I think the pick had a ton of influence from Ozzie's Crimson (tide) Glasses, but I mean, Haha was a 'Bama player too, so... yeah. But in the long term of the defense, and what he thought he could land in the next two rounds, he made it happen. I honestly don't think he foresaw Jimmie Ward going on day one, I know I didn't, and he was no doubt a day two target.

 

Now, about Jernigan. This one made my head hurt from the throbbing veins in it. I mean, I don't see him as quite a scheme fit, as most of us probably do. He's not really big enough to be a nose tackle, and I don't see a constant pass rush ability to excel at defensive end. There's no questioning his run stuffing ability, and the great potential though. And let's not forget that Arthur Jones was not always a dominate pass rusher, but that man could set the edge and stop the run like no one else. I think I could very well see Jernigan taking over for Jones as that run stopping defensive end (leaving Ngata at nose tackle), or adding some healthy bulk and taking over the middle himself. I still have some faith in Brandon Williams being a great nose tackle in the future, he just needs time to grow. Jernigan's value in the second was ridiculous too, as he very well could have/should have been a first round pick, but his diluted sample began his fall. I know that may turn some of you off, as well as his maturity issues. But I think the kid genuinely wants to be great, and has the ability to. Maturity issues are something that can rectify themselves quickly once he gets in a professional locker room, especially with a coach like John. I hate throwing around the "Our locker room will fix him!" excuse, but we've all seen Harbs put guys in his dog house for less (Ellerbe showboating on a pre-season defensive touchdown, anyone?). Timmy was just another pick that was even more about the immediate/long term future of our defense as it was about this season. If his play improves to his already impressive college level, and he dedicates himself to being great, this team is going to have a dominate defensive end/tackle for the present and future.

I'm not going to lie, Terrence Brooks saved the draft for me. In my personal mock, I had us grabbing him in the third, even though part of me was unsure he'd be there. But this was the gamble Ozzie played, and honestly... he got quite a bit lucky that Brooks was still sitting there, because this was a few thin draft for the type of free safety we need. Brooks really could have gone higher, and could start day one and I'd be fine with it. The team wanted a center field type safety, and Brooks truly is one of the best. Yeah, he left some plays on the table, interception-wise, at times at FSU, but the guy was always around the ball, whether it was a run or pass. He's fast. He's quick. He's athletic. And he should compliment Elam's skill set perfectly. This pick took all the sting of Clinton-Dix away for me. The value was there. The talent was there. The need was there. My favorite pick. The best pick. And the pick that started making me feel comfortable.

 

I'm not going to go into great detail about the rest of the picks (aside from one), but I want to touch on all of them. Gillmore went higher than I think he should have, and I was taken aback when he was taken. But we did need a tight end, and he has the great size, and should be a solid all-around tight end, in both receiving and blocking. I doubt he'll ever stretch the defense downfield, but that's not what we need. He can block right away, and should be pretty good in the red zone, and those short/intermediate catches. Not going to lie, there were better players on the board, and I feel like it was somewhat of a reach. But a need was addressed and the long term potential is there. I feel similarily about Brent Urban, he's got amazing size and potential, but I feel as if he's a bit raw to make an immediate impact. There's no doubt the guy's huge, and at very least I see him as being a great rotational guy. But I do feel as if he has the potential to be our future starter at defensive end. It's way too early to tell, but I feel as if we've drafted our defensive line of the future these past two years, and I'm okay with that. In a few years after Ngata and Canty have moved on or retired, I could see us rolling with Jernigan-Williams-Urban. But again, it's too early to tell.

 

Like many of us I'm sure, I didn't see much of Taliaferro in college, and you can only go by highlight reels for so much, but he's the pick I'm most "eh" and unsure about. I can understand what the team saw in him, he's a tough runner who won't be a complete liability when he needs to block, but I feel as if we made the "wrong" pick if we're talking about immediate return with this pick. I understand we've had some great success with small school prospects before (Webb, Flacco to name a few recent ones) and that being from a small school doesn't exactly mean the pro game is "too big" immediately for players, but I think in Lorenzo's case, it may be. Some touches every now and then should help, but if we have to lean on him a lot this year, it'll be rough, but I think he could develop into a servicable relief back. But who knows right now.

 

Urschel, I think is somewhat an underrated pick. He wasn't the tackle we need, but I think we landed a low risk, high reward interior offensive linesman who could allow to cut the cord with AQ Shipley and/or Reid. This is a ridiculously intelligent guard who can also kick inside to center. I don't see him being here to eventually push Osemele to tackle and take over at left guard, but I think he could be an extremely valuable reserve linesman, who just may be able to be a solid starter if that opportunity ever arises. Regardless, he was a great pick for the future of the offensive line.

 

Wenning is probably my second least favorite pick from a personal standpoint, but one I understand. Tyrod's time in Charm City looks to be coming to an end, and I definitely think we can upgrade at back up quarterback. Wenning would fit more in line to what we'd need under center if that unfortunate day every came. He doesn't have the arm strength of Joe (but not many do), and I think his deep ball isn't overly accurate, but he's more of a drop back and pass quarterback in line with our offense than the mobile dual threat Tyrod. I could honestly see this year being the first that we've carried three quarterbacks in a while, before we move on to just Flacco/Wenning.

 

Campanaro is a huge sleeper pick. The team loved him when they met him, and I can see why. Yeah, he doesn't have the name recognition of a Watkins/Evans/Lee/Beckham or even Latimor/Moncrief/Landry/Bryant, but I can really say I think the sky is the limit for the guy. His build and skill set are extremely similar to Wes Welker and he brings what we'd need to the passing game. Before everyone jumps all over me, I'm NOT saying he's going to be the next Welker and throw up consistent 100 catch, 1000+ yard seasons. All I'm saying is he reminds me of what Welker brings to an offense. I mean, he missed the majority of last season, and still broke school records. I don't think he'll be an immediate contributor, but he has the natural ability and head for the game to really be the next late round receiver who broke out. Yeah, my hopes are high for Campanaro, I really think he can tear it up as a slot receiver in this league after some fine tuning.

 

And lastly, the reason why I feel so much better about this draft in retrospect comes from, literally, one 22 year old man named James Hurst. Yes, the undrafted free agent we signed from North Carolina. This guy should have been a 1st-2nd round offensive tackle pick, if only he hadn't broke his leg. He's huge. He's strong. And he tears it up on the edge. Remember, he's one of the few tackles who held their ground against Clowney in college (no, I know he didn't always hold him in check, and didn't always do it alone, but he handled him a lot better than most of the tackles he embarrassed). We got a monster steal with Hurst, who I really want to be in immediate consideration for the right tackle job. He'd be an upgrade over Oher (hold your laughter) and I think would perform much better than Wagner. He's the tackle we needed in the draft, but I understand where Ozzie was coming from in saying he didn't want to reach for an offensive tackle that he felt wasn't value for the pick he was using. Obviously GMs saw something in Morgan Moses than most, and his drop began. I hated us passing him up over and over, but again, Hurst makes me feel so much better about the draft as a whole. Call me silly, but it did.

 

So for all of us calling for Ozzie to get his head checked, or retire/pass the torch to DeCosta, remember that Ozzie did what he felt was best for the team immediately and for the future. He wanted to set the defense up for the future. Were the first two picks somewhat luxury picks instead of addressing some big needs? Well, yeah. Did Ozzie get lucky with some players being available whe I felt like they should have been long gone (Brooks, Campanaro)? Sure. But even the best talent evaluators get lucky. I mean, look at the team we all hate and Martavis Bryant? They needed receiver help, went with some luxury picks and rolled the dice on receiver help. Colbert and company got lucky and Bryant fell. I think we got some immediate starters (Mosley, Jernigan, Brooks), some future stars (again, Mosley and Brooks), and some extremely solid depth. There were some confusing picks, and picks I don't agree with. But this was not as bad a draft as some fans are clamoring it to be.

 

I know this was a huuuuuuge post, and I don't blame most of you guys for not reading it all, But I've been gone for a while, and I just could not truncate my thoughts without leaving so much that I feel would gut what I wanted to say.

 

(I don't agree with immediate draft grades, because even "sure fire" picks can bust, and "nobodies" in the later rounds can shine. We'll never know until they get on the field and play for a few years. But if I had to give grades based on need/value/talent, and people wanted to know, here it is:

 

LB CJ Mosley: A

DE/DT Timmy Jernigan: B+

FS Terrence Brooks: A+

TE Crockett Gillmore: C

DE Brent Urban: C+

RB Lorenzo Taliaferro: D+

OG/C John Urschel: B-

QB Keith Wenning: C

WR Michael Campanaro: A-

 

Good start. Lackluster middle. Solid ending.)

 

Feel free to agree/disagree/rip me a new one. God knows it wouldn't be the first time people who vehemently disagreed with anything I said.

[gabefergy]

Long time, no see my BR.com friends.

 

Going through some of the pages here, it brings to mind my gut reaction to us drafting Torrey Smith a few years back. Some of you may remember how much I absolutely hated the pick. I tored it apart, and said how much of a wasted pick it would be. I then went on to admit I was wrong and eat my crow.

 

I will admit that I was furious at the first pick, and got more depressed after the second. Brooks eased my pain, then Crockett caused me more. Yeah, it stung to not draft the top free safety in the draft when he fell to us at 17. It stung to not draft an offensive tackle at all, and it stung to not draft a receiver until trading back in to get one in the 7th.

 

But let's really think about this for a minute, after I did, I'm not going to lie, I felt a lot better about our draft. Initially, I saw Mosley as the absolute "wrong" pick and as someone dumping on my favorite pick from last year's draft, Arthur Brown. I mean, Haha Clinton-Dix was sitting there, and Darian Stewart was the current starting free safety... someone who got dumped by the Rams. So yeah... I was down when I heard CJ Mosley's name called. But when push comes to shove, no matter how great Daryl Smith has been and will be, he's not young and I highly doubt he plays the entirety of his new four year deal with us.

 

Once Smith calls it a day, who do we really have inside? Brown, Bynes and McClellan. I like McClellan, and I like Bynes, but not as starters. Now, Mosley is a tremendous inside backer: Smart, instictive, strong, and a great tackler. He isn't quick, so to speak, but he reads what the offense is doing very well, and can play down hill phenominally. Quite honestly, he's exactly what we need for the future to carry on what Ray Lewis brought to this team, and Daryl Smith continued: An intelligant leader in the middle who can tackle, and tackle well. Plus, I see Mosley as being a more vocal leader than Daryl, who leads more by his play (not that I'm taking anything away from him). If he stays healthy, that spot is locked up for the long term.

 

When Daryl either retires or is released, Arthur Brown should be more than ready to step up and play next to CJ, and would be the perfect compliment, style wise. You'd have the vocal, do-it-all, thumper in Mosley, and the quick, rangy, excellent-in-coverage linebacker in Brown. If both men live up to their potential, the Ravens are set for the future. Now was Mosley the expected pick, and best value/need pick? No, I don't think so, and I think Ozzie took a huge risk passing on Clinton-Dix and Pryor (although I wasn't really sold on Pryor as a true free safety, but I digress). Yeah, I think the pick had a ton of influence from Ozzie's Crimson (tide) Glasses, but I mean, Haha was a 'Bama player too, so... yeah. But in the long term of the defense, and what he thought he could land in the next two rounds, he made it happen. I honestly don't think he foresaw Jimmie Ward going on day one, I know I didn't, and he was no doubt a day two target.

 

Now, about Jernigan. This one made my head hurt from the throbbing veins in it. I mean, I don't see him as quite a scheme fit, as most of us probably do. He's not really big enough to be a nose tackle, and I don't see a constant pass rush ability to excel at defensive end. There's no questioning his run stuffing ability, and the great potential though. And let's not forget that Arthur Jones was not always a dominate pass rusher, but that man could set the edge and stop the run like no one else. I think I could very well see Jernigan taking over for Jones as that run stopping defensive end (leaving Ngata at nose tackle), or adding some healthy bulk and taking over the middle himself. I still have some faith in Brandon Williams being a great nose tackle in the future, he just needs time to grow. Jernigan's value in the second was ridiculous too, as he very well could have/should have been a first round pick, but his diluted sample began his fall. I know that may turn some of you off, as well as his maturity issues. But I think the kid genuinely wants to be great, and has the ability to. Maturity issues are something that can rectify themselves quickly once he gets in a professional locker room, especially with a coach like John. I hate throwing around the "Our locker room will fix him!" excuse, but we've all seen Harbs put guys in his dog house for less (Ellerbe showboating on a pre-season defensive touchdown, anyone?). Timmy was just another pick that was even more about the immediate/long term future of our defense as it was about this season. If his play improves to his already impressive college level, and he dedicates himself to being great, this team is going to have a dominate defensive end/tackle for the present and future.

I'm not going to lie, Terrence Brooks saved the draft for me. In my personal mock, I had us grabbing him in the third, even though part of me was unsure he'd be there. But this was the gamble Ozzie played, and honestly... he got quite a bit lucky that Brooks was still sitting there, because this was a few thin draft for the type of free safety we need. Brooks really could have gone higher, and could start day one and I'd be fine with it. The team wanted a center field type safety, and Brooks truly is one of the best. Yeah, he left some plays on the table, interception-wise, at times at FSU, but the guy was always around the ball, whether it was a run or pass. He's fast. He's quick. He's athletic. And he should compliment Elam's skill set perfectly. This pick took all the sting of Clinton-Dix away for me. The value was there. The talent was there. The need was there. My favorite pick. The best pick. And the pick that started making me feel comfortable.

 

I'm not going to go into great detail about the rest of the picks (aside from one), but I want to touch on all of them. Gillmore went higher than I think he should have, and I was taken aback when he was taken. But we did need a tight end, and he has the great size, and should be a solid all-around tight end, in both receiving and blocking. I doubt he'll ever stretch the defense downfield, but that's not what we need. He can block right away, and should be pretty good in the red zone, and those short/intermediate catches. Not going to lie, there were better players on the board, and I feel like it was somewhat of a reach. But a need was addressed and the long term potential is there. I feel similarily about Brent Urban, he's got amazing size and potential, but I feel as if he's a bit raw to make an immediate impact. There's no doubt the guy's huge, and at very least I see him as being a great rotational guy. But I do feel as if he has the potential to be our future starter at defensive end. It's way too early to tell, but I feel as if we've drafted our defensive line of the future these past two years, and I'm okay with that. In a few years after Ngata and Canty have moved on or retired, I could see us rolling with Jernigan-Williams-Urban. But again, it's too early to tell.

 

Like many of us I'm sure, I didn't see much of Taliaferro in college, and you can only go by highlight reels for so much, but he's the pick I'm most "eh" and unsure about. I can understand what the team saw in him, he's a tough runner who won't be a complete liability when he needs to block, but I feel as if we made the "wrong" pick if we're talking about immediate return with this pick. I understand we've had some great success with small school prospects before (Webb, Flacco to name a few recent ones) and that being from a small school doesn't exactly mean the pro game is "too big" immediately for players, but I think in Lorenzo's case, it may be. Some touches every now and then should help, but if we have to lean on him a lot this year, it'll be rough, but I think he could develop into a servicable relief back. But who knows right now.

 

Urschel, I think is somewhat an underrated pick. He wasn't the tackle we need, but I think we landed a low risk, high reward interior offensive linesman who could allow to cut the cord with AQ Shipley and/or Reid. This is a ridiculously intelligent guard who can also kick inside to center. I don't see him being here to eventually push Osemele to tackle and take over at left guard, but I think he could be an extremely valuable reserve linesman, who just may be able to be a solid starter if that opportunity ever arises. Regardless, he was a great pick for the future of the offensive line.

 

Wenning is probably my second least favorite pick from a personal standpoint, but one I understand. Tyrod's time in Charm City looks to be coming to an end, and I definitely think we can upgrade at back up quarterback. Wenning would fit more in line to what we'd need under center if that unfortunate day every came. He doesn't have the arm strength of Joe (but not many do), and I think his deep ball isn't overly accurate, but he's more of a drop back and pass quarterback in line with our offense than the mobile dual threat Tyrod. I could honestly see this year being the first that we've carried three quarterbacks in a while, before we move on to just Flacco/Wenning.

 

Campanaro is a huge sleeper pick. The team loved him when they met him, and I can see why. Yeah, he doesn't have the name recognition of a Watkins/Evans/Lee/Beckham or even Latimor/Moncrief/Landry/Bryant, but I can really say I think the sky is the limit for the guy. His build and skill set are extremely similar to Wes Welker and he brings what we'd need to the passing game. Before everyone jumps all over me, I'm NOT saying he's going to be the next Welker and throw up consistent 100 catch, 1000+ yard seasons. All I'm saying is he reminds me of what Welker brings to an offense. I mean, he missed the majority of last season, and still broke school records. I don't think he'll be an immediate contributor, but he has the natural ability and head for the game to really be the next late round receiver who broke out. Yeah, my hopes are high for Campanaro, I really think he can tear it up as a slot receiver in this league after some fine tuning.

 

And lastly, the reason why I feel so much better about this draft in retrospect comes from, literally, one 22 year old man named James Hurst. Yes, the undrafted free agent we signed from North Carolina. This guy should have been a 1st-2nd round offensive tackle pick, if only he hadn't broke his leg. He's huge. He's strong. And he tears it up on the edge. Remember, he's one of the few tackles who held their ground against Clowney in college (no, I know he didn't always hold him in check, and didn't always do it alone, but he handled him a lot better than most of the tackles he embarrassed). We got a monster steal with Hurst, who I really want to be in immediate consideration for the right tackle job. He'd be an upgrade over Oher (hold your laughter) and I think would perform much better than Wagner. He's the tackle we needed in the draft, but I understand where Ozzie was coming from in saying he didn't want to reach for an offensive tackle that he felt wasn't value for the pick he was using. Obviously GMs saw something in Morgan Moses than most, and his drop began. I hated us passing him up over and over, but again, Hurst makes me feel so much better about the draft as a whole. Call me silly, but it did.

 

So for all of us calling for Ozzie to get his head checked, or retire/pass the torch to DeCosta, remember that Ozzie did what he felt was best for the team immediately and for the future. He wanted to set the defense up for the future. Were the first two picks somewhat luxury picks instead of addressing some big needs? Well, yeah. Did Ozzie get lucky with some players being available whe I felt like they should have been long gone (Brooks, Campanaro)? Sure. But even the best talent evaluators get lucky. I mean, look at the team we all hate and Martavis Bryant? They needed receiver help, went with some luxury picks and rolled the dice on receiver help. Colbert and company got lucky and Bryant fell. I think we got some immediate starters (Mosley, Jernigan, Brooks), some future stars (again, Mosley and Brooks), and some extremely solid depth. There were some confusing picks, and picks I don't agree with. But this was not as bad a draft as some fans are clamoring it to be.

 

I know this was a huuuuuuge post, and I don't blame most of you guys for not reading it all, But I've been gone for a while, and I just could not truncate my thoughts without leaving so much that I feel would gut what I wanted to say.

 

(I don't agree with immediate draft grades, because even "sure fire" picks can bust, and "nobodies" in the later rounds can shine. We'll never know until they get on the field and play for a few years. But if I had to give grades based on need/value/talent, and people wanted to know, here it is:

 

LB CJ Mosley: A

DE/DT Timmy Jernigan: B+

FS Terrence Brooks: A+

TE Crockett Gillmore: C

DE Brent Urban: C+

RB Lorenzo Taliaferro: D+

OG/C John Urschel: B-

QB Keith Wenning: C

WR Michael Campanaro: A-

 

Good start. Lackluster middle. Solid ending.)

 

Feel free to agree/disagree/rip me a new one. God knows it wouldn't be the first time people who vehemently disagreed with anything I said.

Great post ATD, and welcome back to the board. It's been too long! I agree with you 100%, and I am still a bit salty about how the draft panned out. You are right that landing Hurst in UDFA was HUGE. I am still very concerned about CB too considering our 2 starting corners have injury histories and the depth behind them is frightening. I do think we got some good value in the draft and getting Brooks in the 3rd round was what made the whole thing palatable for me too. 

 

I have high hopes for Mosley as long as he can stay healthy, and Jernigan can hopefully step into Art's role. I'm a little skeptical about the latter, but we will have to wait and see.

 

I agree that Gillmore and Taliaferro were reaches, but then again the FO knows more than I do about these guys. The tape we can see of them is pretty limited. I think they both have upside. 

 

You didn't talk much about the Urban pick, but I think he is a great selection. He's the prototyical 5T that should develop into a starter for us. It's a bit of a head scratcher because we already took Jernigan, but I like the value. Urschel could be asked to play immediately, and I think he will be solid depth and an eventual starter for us either way. I have similar feelings to you about Wenning and Campanaro.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Great post ATD, and welcome back to the board. It's been too long! I agree with you 100%, and I am still a bit salty about how the draft panned out. You are right that landing Hurst in UDFA was HUGE. I am still very concerned about CB too considering our 2 starting corners have injury histories and the depth behind them is frightening. I do think we got some good value in the draft and getting Brooks in the 3rd round was what made the whole thing palatable for me too. 

 

I have high hopes for Mosley as long as he can stay healthy, and Jernigan can hopefully step into Art's role. I'm a little skeptical about the latter, but we will have to wait and see.

 

I agree that Gillmore and Taliaferro were reaches, but then again the FO knows more than I do about these guys. The tape we can see of them is pretty limited. I think they both have upside. 

 

You didn't talk much about the Urban pick, but I think he is a great selection. He's the prototyical 5T that should develop into a starter for us. It's a bit of a head scratcher because we already took Jernigan, but I like the value. Urschel could be asked to play immediately, and I think he will be solid depth and an eventual starter for us either way. I have similar feelings to you about Wenning and Campanaro.

 

Canty isn't going to be around for long, so I feel Urban was justified. However, he's still a bit more raw than Jernigan really is. I do really love his potential, he's HUGE and strong. He really could overwhelm opposing linesmen. I think he could benefit from a season or two of being part of a rotation, since his potential is huge. Like I said, I do see him (as long as he develops as the team obviously thinks he can) being our future starting defensive end opposite of Jernigan and next to Brandon Williams. Supposedly, Ozzie thought he was a potential second round pick, so obviously he sees a bright future in Brent.

 

I hear you on cornerback. I don't know terribly much about Seamster but I do like his size. I doubt he'd push either Jackson or Brown, but could be a nice depth player. What I do know is that I don't like Traiman Jacobs at all really. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw during the few Texas A&M games I watched (I could only stomach so much Manziel, so being in the Steelers/Browns viewing area is going to be so much fun now).

[YYZ66]

Canty isn't going to be around for long, so I feel Urban was justified. However, he's still a bit more raw than Jernigan really is. I do really love his potential, he's HUGE and strong. He really could overwhelm opposing linesmen. I think he could benefit from a season or two of being part of a rotation, since his potential is huge. Like I said, I do see him (as long as he develops as the team obviously thinks he can) being our future starting defensive end opposite of Jernigan and next to Brandon Williams. Supposedly, Ozzie thought he was a potential second round pick, so obviously he sees a bright future in Brent.

 

I hear you on cornerback. I don't know terribly much about Seamster but I do like his size. I doubt he'd push either Jackson or Brown, but could be a nice depth player. What I do know is that I don't like Traiman Jacobs at all really. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw during the few Texas A&M games I watched (I could only stomach so much Manziel, so being in the Steelers/Browns viewing area is going to be so much fun now).

 

Wow dude, what brought you out of the woodwork?    LOL

Nice to see you again, and thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread.

[AP562]

Yes because he fell there for a reason…

l.webb fell down the draft board but has been our best cb since s.rolle

[Runnin Raven]

LB CJ Mosley: A

DE/DT Timmy Jernigan: B+

FS Terrence Brooks: A+

TE Crockett Gillmore: C

DE Brent Urban: C+

RB Lorenzo Taliaferro: D+

OG/C John Urschel: B-

QB Keith Wenning: C

WR Michael Campanaro: A-

 

Good start. Lackluster middle. Solid ending.)

 

Feel free to agree/disagree/rip me a new one. God knows it wouldn't be the first time people who vehemently disagreed with anything I said.

Great post, I remember your disappointment with the Torrey Smith pick as well as you stepping up to eat crow, lol.  I have to say you pretty much nailed it with respect to the picks and how I feel about them.  I may be even less of an Urban fan than you, however.  How many times do coaches and/or scouts fall in love with "body types".  I'm kind of sick of projects becasue they rarely work out.  The Taliaferro pick is my second most concerning only because what I've seen doesn't look like an explosive NFL RB, not even close.  I can appreciate a guy who can pass block, however, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

 

*Edit - oh, and I'm actually a bigger fan of the Gillmore pick than most folks out here.  I can see Joe liking him as an option in the RZ.

[izvoodoo]

Canty isn't going to be around for long, so I feel Urban was justified. However, he's still a bit more raw than Jernigan really is. I do really love his potential, he's HUGE and strong. He really could overwhelm opposing linesmen. I think he could benefit from a season or two of being part of a rotation, since his potential is huge. Like I said, I do see him (as long as he develops as the team obviously thinks he can) being our future starting defensive end opposite of Jernigan and next to Brandon Williams. Supposedly, Ozzie thought he was a potential second round pick, so obviously he sees a bright future in Brent.

 

I hear you on cornerback. I don't know terribly much about Seamster but I do like his size. I doubt he'd push either Jackson or Brown, but could be a nice depth player. What I do know is that I don't like Traiman Jacobs at all really. I wasn't very impressed with what I saw during the few Texas A&M games I watched (I could only stomach so much Manziel, so being in the Steelers/Browns viewing area is going to be so much fun now).

The great white north...

[itscbm5042]

Been on vacation so I realize this is a bit late but for me, the 2nd and 4th round selections REALLY messed up this draft. 

 

2nd round - WRs Latimer, Robinson, and Landry were ALL there, any one of them especially the first 2 would have been excellent WR selections and we went with a DT instead... that kills me

 

3rd round comp - OTs, and a multitude of high upside corners and RBs and we went with a blocking TE... I'll never understand that one, he would have been there much later

 

 

 

[jazz1988]

Been on vacation so I realize this is a bit late but for me, the 2nd and 4th round selections REALLY messed up this draft. 

 

2nd round - WRs Latimer, Robinson, and Landry were ALL there, any one of them especially the first 2 would have been excellent WR selections and we went with a DT instead... that kills me

 

3rd round comp - OTs, and a multitude of high upside corners and RBs and we went with a blocking TE... I'll never understand that one, he would have been there much later

 

The defensive tackle we drafted  was just better value than getting Latimer or Robinson. I'm still surprised Landry even went in the second round especially after his poor performance at the combine and during his pro day. No way should The Ravens had drafted him at the spot they were at in the second round.

 

I strongly doubt the tight end we drafted would have been there later for us in the fourth or even sixth round. He was mention as a fourth rounder at the latest  and The Ravens probably could have  still drafted another blocking tight end but most likely none of them would have the same  upside as Crockett Gilmore .

[izvoodoo]

The defensive tackle we drafted  was just better value than getting Latimer or Robinson. I'm still surprised Landry even went in the second round especially after his poor performance at the combine and during his pro day. No way should The Ravens had drafted him at the spot they were at in the second round.

 

I strongly doubt the tight end we drafted would have been there later for us in the fourth or even sixth round. He was mention as a fourth rounder at the latest  and The Ravens probably could have  still drafted another blocking tight end but most likely none of them would have the same  upside as Crockett Gilmore .

Latimer was the guy I wanted.  I wanted to come away from this draft with a freakish athlete, we lack athletic mismatches on offense.

[Ravensfan23]

Why do people continue to call Crockett Gilmore a "blocking" TE? Maybe my view of a blocking TE is different from others. Billy Bajama my view of a blocking TE. Gilmore is a 2 way TE, there is a difference. He's a willing blocker but that's not the only thing he does. He lead his team in receiving yards before, he left the senior bowl as one of the best pass catchers at the TE position, I believe he was the leading receiver in that game. He was first team all mountain west conference, I doubt a blocking TE would receive that honor. Charles Davis actually called this guy the steal of the draft, not sure I'd go that far, but it seems to Mr that most who knock the selection of Gilmore only do so because they don't know much about him.

[The Raven]

Why do people continue to call Crockett Gilmore a "blocking" TE? Maybe my view of a blocking TE is different from others. Billy Bajama my view of a blocking TE. Gilmore is a 2 way TE, there is a difference. He's a willing blocker but that's not the only thing he does. He lead his team in receiving yards before, he left the senior bowl as one of the best pass catchers at the TE position, I believe he was the leading receiver in that game. He was first team all mountain west conference, I doubt a blocking TE would receive that honor. Charles Davis actually called this guy the steal of the draft, not sure I'd go that far, but it seems to Mr that most who knock the selection of Gilmore only do so because they don't know much about him.

 

Because one staff writer on the website and a few members of the media called him a blocking TE and because people are too lazy to formulate opinions for themselves, it spread like wildfire. 

 

Edit: I'm also convinced that some people are just pissed we took a relatively unknown TE at the spot we did, and they didn't give him a fair shot, even though he's capable of living up to that draft position. 

[izvoodoo]

Why do people continue to call Crockett Gilmore a "blocking" TE? Maybe my view of a blocking TE is different from others. Billy Bajama my view of a blocking TE. Gilmore is a 2 way TE, there is a difference. He's a willing blocker but that's not the only thing he does. He lead his team in receiving yards before, he left the senior bowl as one of the best pass catchers at the TE position, I believe he was the leading receiver in that game. He was first team all mountain west conference, I doubt a blocking TE would receive that honor. Charles Davis actually called this guy the steal of the draft, not sure I'd go that far, but it seems to Mr that most who knock the selection of Gilmore only do so because they don't know much about him.

It's because he's a better blocker than the TEs we have currently.

[gabefergy]

It's because he's a better blocker than the TEs we have currently.

Exactly, and that's how he will be used primarily while Pitta and Daniels are on the roster. He could develop into a serviceable 2 way player, but he is not an explosive player. He's got size and soft hands so I think he will be able to contribute in the passing game, but there were better players on the board when he was drafted.

[jazz1988]

Latimer was the guy I wanted.  I wanted to come away from this draft with a freakish athlete, we lack athletic mismatches on offense.

 

We may not have that freakish athlete on offense but I wouldn't say we don't have players that can't be mismatches. Just putting Marlon Brown in the slot is a mismatch in my opinion or even Steve Smith against those less physical/smaller nickel cornerbacks. If Gary Kubiak can mix it up / be creative with his playing calling like we never had from our previous offensive coordinators than there's no way he can't use Torrey Smith, Steve Smith, Marlon Brown and Jacoby Jones in ways so they can be mismatches in certain offensive packages.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Why do people continue to call Crockett Gilmore a "blocking" TE? Maybe my view of a blocking TE is different from others. Billy Bajama my view of a blocking TE. Gilmore is a 2 way TE, there is a difference. He's a willing blocker but that's not the only thing he does. He lead his team in receiving yards before, he left the senior bowl as one of the best pass catchers at the TE position, I believe he was the leading receiver in that game. He was first team all mountain west conference, I doubt a blocking TE would receive that honor. Charles Davis actually called this guy the steal of the draft, not sure I'd go that far, but it seems to Mr that most who knock the selection of Gilmore only do so because they don't know much about him.

Gillmore is an all around tight end like I said, I believe. He can catch and he can block, which is what the team was looking for. No, he's not a blocking tight end like Bajema, but he's going to be used more as a blocker than Daniels (who's an underrated blocker himself) and Pitta will be. But no, he's not a strict blocking specialist like Bajema was.

[izvoodoo]

Exactly, and that's how he will be used primarily while Pitta and Daniels are on the roster. He could develop into a serviceable 2 way player, but he is not an explosive player. He's got size and soft hands so I think he will be able to contribute in the passing game, but there were better players on the board when he was drafted.

Well, don't forget how insanely important the back end run blocking is in a ZBS.  also he's good on the run, so helps with the waggle.  Though I'd rather have players with sweet moves than players who play to contact.

[Ravensfan23]

Exactly, and that's how he will be used primarily while Pitta and Daniels are on the roster. He could develop into a serviceable 2 way player, but he is not an explosive player. He's got size and soft hands so I think he will be able to contribute in the passing game, but there were better players on the board when he was drafted.

So because he was drafted to a team that has two move TEs that makes him a blocking TE? I'm sorry but that's laughable. That's like saying Mosley is nothing more then rotational ILB because more then likely he an Brown will split time. He's a better blocker then our two TEs but that didn't make him a blocking TE. What does him not being explosive have to do with anything regrading him bring labeled as a blocking TE? Hell Dickson was more explosive then Pitta and I know for a fact you aren't a Dickson fan.

Also there might have been better talent according to you but that doesn't mean that's what the Ravens draft board said. Crockett Gilmore isn't a blocking TE, he's a 2 way TE that blocks well and has areas to improve upon in his game the same as every other guy we drafted or anyone still on the board.

I guess the Ravens made a mistake drafting a backup TE in the first round of the 2001 draft because that's all Todd Heap was in his first year was a backup. I don't understand that. He's a blocking TE because he'll be asked to do that a lot this year. This guy could actually have a nice role in Kubes offense as a inline TE this year.

[gabefergy]

So because he was drafted to a team that has two move TEs that makes him a blocking TE? I'm sorry but that's laughable. That's like saying Mosley is nothing more then rotational ILB because more then likely he an Brown will split time. He's a better blocker then our two TEs but that didn't make him a blocking TE. What does him not being explosive have to do with anything regrading him bring labeled as a blocking TE? Hell Dickson was more explosive then Pitta and I know for a fact you aren't a Dickson fan.

Also there might have been better talent according to you but that doesn't mean that's what the Ravens draft board said. Crockett Gilmore isn't a blocking TE, he's a 2 way TE that blocks well and has areas to improve upon in his game the same as every other guy we drafted or anyone still on the board.

I guess the Ravens made a mistake drafting a backup TE in the first round of the 2001 draft because that's all Todd Heap was in his first year was a backup. I don't understand that. He's a blocking TE because he'll be asked to do that a lot this year. This guy could actually have a nice role in Kubes offense as a inline TE this year.

Try reading what I said. He is going to start off blocking while the proven pass catchers fill the receiving role. He is not going to be a major receiving threat this year. I clearly said he could develop into a two-way player down the road, but he's not going to pass guys like Pitta and Daniels on the depth chart.

He's got a chance to be a good player, but I think a lot of people eexpect more out of a third round pick . It's difficult to see him having a major impact anytime soon.

[gabefergy]

Well, don't forget how insanely important the back end run blocking is in a ZBS. also he's good on the run, so helps with the waggle. Though I'd rather have players with sweet moves than players who play to contact.

It's definitely important. Dickson was a disaster last year, so I think he will have a role for sure. I also think he has potential to be a good all around player down the road. It's not very exciting pick though when there are guys like Martavis Bryant, Pierre Desir, and Bruce Ellington on the board.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Man, who knew Gillmore, a tight end many groaned about us drafting a "no name tight end", would be such a hotly debated player now... 

[Tank 92]

Try reading what I said. He is going to start off blocking while the proven pass catchers fill the receiving role. He is not going to be a major receiving threat this year. I clearly said he could develop into a two-way player down the road, but he's not going to pass guys like Pitta and Daniels on the depth chart.

He's got a chance to be a good player, but I think a lot of people eexpect more out of a third round pick . It's difficult to see him having a major impact anytime soon.

 

 

The upside is that there is still the threat of Crock catching a pass when he's in the game rather than allowing the D to cheat all in to the run. I think he may contribute right away more than you think.

[Ravensfan23]

Gilmore is a throwback with the way the position has evolved. When I first watched him I saw a lot of Heath Miller and then iread Gilmore say he emulates Heath Miller so it makes sense. If we were still in the same offense as the past 6 years I wouldn't be that excited about this pick but knowing the creativity of Kubes and how he uses his TEs, I seemingly get more and more excited about this pick each day.

He doesn't have great speed but he's really good at the short to intermediate areas. With a Playaction heavy offense Gilmore could be a beast. He's a developmental player in the sense that he's only been a TE for 2 years, but I strongly feel this guy could have a impact on this offense as a rookie if asked.

[ravensdfan]

Why do people continue to call Crockett Gilmore a "blocking" TE? Maybe my view of a blocking TE is different from others. Billy Bajama my view of a blocking TE. Gilmore is a 2 way TE, there is a difference. He's a willing blocker but that's not the only thing he does. He lead his team in receiving yards before, he left the senior bowl as one of the best pass catchers at the TE position, I believe he was the leading receiver in that game. He was first team all mountain west conference, I doubt a blocking TE would receive that honor. Charles Davis actually called this guy the steal of the draft, not sure I'd go that far, but it seems to Mr that most who knock the selection of Gilmore only do so because they don't know much about him.

 

I don't think it is so much pigeonholing him as a blocking TE as much as people feel he was picked for his blocking abilities. Since that isn't really a strength of either Daniels or Pitta.  Doesn't mean he can't catch. Most everything I read on him says otherwise.

 

My biggest thing with him is that his weaknesses are listed as route running & gaining separation. We have a stable full of WRs with those issues already.

[1/28/01]

I would like to vent about the fact that we're still venting about the draft.

[0_o]

Wow, it's shocking to see some of the responses here. A lot of salty people. It's funny because they just dont realize how great of a draft this was. I mean this could go down as one of our greatest drafts of all time.

 

With our first pick we selected a top 10 player with All-Pro potential. With our 2nd round pick we selected a big time play maker, a top 20 player, a player whom for most of you will soon become your new favorite Raven (the irony). With our 3rd and 4th round picks we selected three players with second round grades all of which are going to have an immediate impact on the field. We drafted what potentially could be one of the biggest gems in the entire draft with John Urschel in the 5th. We selected a QB in the 6th round who has franchise quarterback type of potential.and we knocked our udfa signings completely out of the ball park.

 

If Campanaro transitions his game into the NFL we're going to have a special little man, with a big heart, making huge plays, every Sunday, for a very long time. It's sad to see all the bitterness from people who just have no clue, no idea, no concept of what they're talking about. I guess your youtube research outweighs the thousands of hours, dollars, personnel, manpower and time spent making this draft possible, huh? Your scouting website that Google found for you clearly is the know-all, be-all of what's what when it comes to prospects, except that it's not...you're mad that we passed on your favorite prospect because he wasn't good enough to make our team. Deal with it. Go root for the Browns if you feel a certain way about it. You're whiny attitude will fit right in.

 

You say you bleed Black-n-Purple, talk a good game about Ozzie is the best ever, then turn around and show no loyalty to the man responsible for bringing you 2 Super Bowls, is the main source of your Ravens pride, gives our city an equal chance at contention year-in and year-out, has done nothing but succeed on a Hall of Fame level, drafted Hall of Fame players, makes big time moves and continues to churn out talented rosters that always find a way to win.

 

 

In Ozzie you trust, except for when you don't because you're to busy disrespecting him and his personnel team on a forum board as though you actually know something that's worth mentioning. I don't know what's more annoying, delusional Steeler Fans or bandwagon Raven Fans who don't know how to be anything but pessimistic and ungrateful. 

[ravensdfan]

Wow, it's shocking to see some of the responses here. A lot of salty people. It's funny because they just dont realize how great of a draft this was. I mean this could go down as one of our greatest drafts of all time.

 

With our first pick we selected a top 10 player with All-Pro potential. With our 2nd round pick we selected a big time play maker, a top 20 player, a player whom for most of you will soon become your new favorite Raven (the irony). With our 3rd and 4th round picks we selected three players with second round grades all of which are going to have an immediate impact on the field. We drafted what potentially could be one of the biggest gems in the entire draft with John Urschel in the 5th. We selected a QB in the 6th round who has franchise quarterback type of potential.and we knocked our udfa signings completely out of the ball park.

 

If Campanaro transitions his game into the NFL we're going to have a special little man, with a big heart, making huge plays, every Sunday, for a very long time. It's sad to see all the bitterness from people who just have no clue, no idea, no concept of what they're talking about. I guess your youtube research outweighs the thousands of hours, dollars, personnel, manpower and time spent making this draft possible, huh? Your scouting website that Google found for you clearly is the know-all, be-all of what's what when it comes to prospects, except that it's not...you're mad that we passed on your favorite prospect because he wasn't good enough to make our team. Deal with it. Go root for the Browns if you feel a certain way about it. You're whiny attitude will fit right in.

 

You say you bleed Black-n-Purple, talk a good game about Ozzie is the best ever, then turn around and show no loyalty to the man responsible for bringing you 2 Super Bowls, is the main source of your Ravens pride, gives our city an equal chance at contention year-in and year-out, has done nothing but succeed on a Hall of Fame level, drafted Hall of Fame players, makes big time moves and continues to churn out talented rosters that always find a way to win.

 

 

In Ozzie you trust, except for when you don't because you're to busy disrespecting him and his personnel team on a forum board as though you actually know something that's worth mentioning. I don't know what's more annoying, delusional Steeler Fans or bandwagon Raven Fans who don't know how to be anything but pessimistic and ungrateful. 

 

Put the Kool-Aid down! Serioudly, you've overdosed.

 

Get a grip.

 

I don't want to ruin your little fantasy world but, you know, we've had bad drafts before after the dust settles. More than once.

 

In fact, we've had losing seasons. More than once.

 

Who do you think drafted those players? Who made those teams? The same man doing it now.

 

Key word here being "man". He makes mistakes. He has bad drafts. And after every one of those bad drafts were people like you - this is going to be our best draft ever! And..they weren't.

 

It happens.

 

And, I have news. Not everyone so blindly falls in line - just because. Some actually have thoughts, brains and opinions all on their own. Shocking I know.

 

Even more shocking - sometimes, after the dust settles, those outlier opinions turn out to have merit. Hey go figure!

 

Why do you think people are salty? If they didn't give a crap about this team - then they wouldn't be salty would they?

 

This board is beginning to remind me of 1984. The book, not the year. Fall in line or be eliminated! Egad.

[0_o]

Put the Kool-Aid down! Serioudly, you've overdosed.

Get a grip.

I don't want to ruin your little fantasy world but, you know, we've had bad drafts before after the dust settles. More than once.

In fact, we've had losing seasons. More than once.

Who do you think drafted those players? Who made those teams? The same man doing it now.

Key word here being "man". He makes mistakes. He has bad drafts. And after every one of those bad drafts were people like you - this is going to be our best draft ever! And..they weren't.

It happens.

And, I have news. Not everyone so blindly falls in line - just because. Some actually have thoughts, brains and opinions all on their own. Shocking I know.

Even more shocking - sometimes, after the dust settles, those outlier opinions turn out to have merit. Hey go figure!

Why do you think people are salty? If they didn't give a crap about this team - then they wouldn't be salty would they?

This board is beginning to remind me of 1984. The book, not the year. Fall in line or be eliminated! Egad.

Speaking in general - not towards you.

If you're foolish enough to think your expert opinion is of the same caliber of those who actually do this for a living, then you're foolish enough not to be taken seriously. So what's the point of assuming you know better? Not only that, but then the urge to whine about something you're not qualified to even speak on.

If someone got on a forum board that represents your job and what you do for a living, then posted how incompetent you are at what you do and criticized how bad you are at doing it, despite them having no experience, no understanding, no idea how to even do your job, i bet your double standard wouldn't apply then. I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't take what those people had to say seriously because how could you? In fact I'd even be willing to bet you would considered those people to be babbling, ignorant little idiots who don't know what the hell theyre talking about.

Minutes after the draft you have people saying how horrible this draft was as though they're experience at using the internet to look up other peoples opinions of prospects in order to form their own, gives them credibility to make that kind of ridiculous accusation. It's like saying Ray Lewis doesnt know how to play football because I know how to watch football, and then having the nerve to get out of the stands, walk on to the field, call timeout, go up to him, look him dead in his eyes and with a serious face try to teach him how to play.

Why does everybody have to be so negative all the time?? Always have to find something to complain about? Something to be upset over. It's never going to be good enough, ever!! Why?....What's the point of enjoying the Ravens if all you ever do is complain about them?

You all know who you are. If this team makes you so unhappy then go find a new one. I'm tired of the tiny minority of Ravens fans who only see the worst in our team, in our coaches, in our players, in our front office always complaining. Always voicing their opinions. You don't represent the majority. You just talk louder.