The Vent Thread 2014 Draft

[ravensdfan]

That isn't my point. You said he hasn't lived up to being a 2nd round pick. Really?

 

Really. Like I said - there is an entire thread on Torrey.

[1/28/01]

This thread rules!

[Florida Ravens Fan]

This thread is a +35 :-)

[beasy2487]

Rogers had the second best defense in the NFL when he won the Super Bowl

Well whadya know??? Lol.

[beasy2487]

I agree you need a good defense. I never said otherwise. Just that most times the draft is deep defensively. We still passed on some good defensive players that would have filled our needs on defense. We just used our two highest picks for positions we used our high picks for last season. Somewhere are two wasted picks because you don't count a high pick sucessful if it is just used for depth. That is what the later rounds are for.

A deep offensive draft is rare and unless we're picking somewhere in the top 10 or 20 - we're not going to get that high potential WR any time soon. Flacco is heading into his 7th year. We just paid him $120M. When are we planning on surrounding him with some young quality talent?

Torrey is good but not 2nd round talent yet. Daniels & S. Smith could be good but one we have no idea if he'll recover from injury and the other is coming off his worst season ever - not to mention it is rare for a QB to have instant chemistry with a receiver. They're also at the tail end of their careers.

And we haven't even touched on our RB situation yet.

I love a good defense - I want us to get that swagger back. Teams to fear us. I'm just not willing to have a completely inept offense in order to make that happen because we won't go far in the post season that way.

Understand where you're coming from, but I still stand by the point that SB-winning teams over the past 10 years have not prioritized offense in the draft. And if they have, the defense has already been set. It's not like we had 30 picks and just chose to ignore offense, we decided that in a year where elite defensive talent is falling dramatically we wanted to get the highest possible value out of early picks and then focus on upside in the later rounds.

I guess what I'm wondering is who cares if the offensive talent is deep of that's not what gets you to the dance? I would argue that even with last year's team, we get one of those 4th quarter defensive stops and we're in the playoffs. Our offensive unit is virtually the same with infinitely better coaching and our defense, after this draft, has the potential to be exponentially better. That is a recipe for success.

The crux of your argument now seems to be that it is easier to draft defense so we should spend riskier picks on offense to hedge our bets. Offense is harder in general than defense, that's why they get paid more. So if I'm a savvy GM I want vets on offense and youth on defense. Through that lens our draft strategy makes total sense.

[BmoreBird22]

Well whadya know??? Lol.

Brady won it with the first, second, and sixth ranked defenses

[ravensdfan]

Brady won it with the first, second, and sixth ranked defenses

 

...and with the #19, #17 and #7 ranked offense.

 

Rodgers had the # 8 ranked offense.

 

What do you know.

 

Just for comparison:

 

Last year our offense ranked #29. Our defense ranked #12. We missed the playoffs.

 

In 2012, our defense ranked # 15, and our offense ranked #16.  Gee what do you know. Balance.

[RaineV1]

If that's the bigger picture, then the biggest picture is that teams that consistently pick offensive talent with high picks aren't winning championships. In the past 10 years you have the Colts with Peyton and Harrison (both generational talents), the Steelers with Ben (and they won with defense), Giants with Eli (Defense), Packers with Rodgers (another generational talent), and...who else? Who are these amazing offensive juggernauts that are winning championships? You can make the "in this day and age" argument but the two best teams in the league last year (SF and SEA) were built with high picks on...you guessed it...defense. So I have to ask, do you really want championships, or do you just want to see big offensive numbers? You can't have it both ways.

Don't forget the Saints. They had a team designed to score early and put pressure on the other team's offense to make them throw a lot. And a defense specifically designed to try to get as much interceptions as possible. Their defensive backs were just about the only really good thing about their defense.

[1/28/01]

I'll take a top 7-8 D and top 15-18 O all day long! That's where I predict our healthier and better coached offense and our (potentially) stacked defense to land.

[flynismo]

I'll take a top 7-8 D and top 15-18 O all day long! That's where I predict our healthier and better coached offense and our (potentially) stacked defense to land.

7-8 ranked D isn't good enough for me. Still pretty jaded after over a decade of awesomeness

[RavensNation14]

7-8 ranked D isn't good enough for me. Still pretty jaded after over a decade of awesomeness

It's going to be hard to replace that ever. That was a once in a franchise defense. I'm fine with being top 7-8 because if our offense can actually move the ball this year we will win a lot of games. We have the best kicker in the NFL and Sam Koch is one of the better punters in the league even though he has been off recently. 

[1/28/01]

7-8 ranked D isn't good enough for me. Still pretty jaded after over a decade of awesomeness

Truly, I think we'll be top 5, but was trying to be overly realistic for boards sake. I just cant take anyone being mean to me. I will collapse and go cry in the corner.

[redrum52]

Truly, I think we'll be top 5, but was trying to be overly realistic for boards sake. I just cant take anyone being mean to me. I will collapse and go cry in the corner.

I think top 5 as well. My reasoning is mostly due to an improved offense not leaving them out to dry. Add in another year to grow since so many people were new and I feel they click. I feel If the offense had even been middle of the pack the defense would've easily cracked top 10.

[arnie_uk]

I'll take a top 7-8 D and top 15-18 O all day long! That's where I predict our healthier and better coached offense and our (potentially) stacked defense to land.

I think our offense can only be that high if everything falls into place

[gabefergy]

I think our offense can only be that high if everything falls into place

I'm still very concerned about the run game, which is extremely important in a kubiak offense.

[redrum52]

I'm still very concerned about the run game, which is extremely important in a kubiak offense.

Line, backs or both?

[ravensdfan]

I think our offense can only be that high if everything falls into place

 

And no one gets hurt because we have no depth.

 

I'm still very concerned about the run game, which is extremely important in a kubiak offense.

 

Beyond concerned. I don't see that we've addressed that issue.

[T3hRaven]

Line, backs or both?

 

I'm concerned about both.  The line issues are obvious.  Rice might be done, Pierce hasn't proven he can stay healthy or run effectively, and I'm not counting on the new guy or Justin Forsett to be anything extraordinary.

[arnie_uk]

Line, backs or both?

both for me. KO and his back is a question mark, right tackle is an issue, yanda could very well have regressed, who knows. Zuttah while an improvement over gino is only average.

Rice could be suspended, pierce is injury prone, not really sure of the draftee.

[T3hRaven]

both for me. KO and his back is a question mark, right tackle is an issue, yanda could very well have regressed, who knows. Zuttah while an improvement over gino is only average.

Rice could be suspended, pierce is injury prone, not really sure of the draftee.

 

Is he really a back with the vision required to be an effective zone runner?  I have questions about that too.

[gabefergy]

Line, backs or both?

Both. We got a short yardage who can play on 3rd down, but the OL didn't really get upgraded. We are counting on KO being healthy, Wagner being serviceable, Pierce being healthy, and Rice bouncing back. Thats a lot of question marks, and a big reason why I'm concerned about the draft.

[gabefergy]

Seems like a lot of us have the same concerns

[Ravensfan23]

Their offenses might not have been high powered - as with Eli - but they were not completely inept either. Let's not act like any of those offenses were anywhere near as poor as ours last season. And it's funny how when it is an offensive team - you're like excusing it. Talk about not getting it both ways.

Could it be possible that our offense was so poor last year do to poor play by bad players and injuries? If we were looking to Gino, AQ, Clark, Dickson, Stokely and Doss to raise their level of play then I'm right there with you, but we're not.

I'm not attacking you in any way, just trying to understand, because I find it interesting that you can list the different players that makes this offense nothing like the SB offense, yet you continue to refer to our poor offense last season but seemingly failing to realize that there will be at least 8 new players in this offense. There will be no AQ, Gino, Oher, Leach, Doss, Clark, Dickson or Stokely in the offense this year. Not to mention there is a good chance that most if not all off your injured players will return healthy this year. Who knows how they will perform off injury but getting them back healthy is a plus. So based on the 8 guys who either left or lost starting jobs and the 3 guys coming off injury, not counting Joe and Coby, that's almost 75% of the offense that will be different in some form this year.

As for the draft, again why would you reach for offensive talent just to say you addressed the offense? You caution people from relying on the return of injured players but wouldn't it be even tougher to rely on rookies who've done nothing? In only 5 games before injury Daniels out performed both our TEs full season last season and he's slated to be our #2. I'd say the potential of what he'll bring is worth getting excited about. Pitta nearly out performed those guys in the 4 games he played. Yes they're coming off injury but I'd say we've upgraded that position. Yes Steve Smith is old and technically had a down year but he still projected at 68 catches and close to 800 if he didn't sit out the final game. What are the odds a rookie would do that for us? This offense has improved from last year. I think it's crazy not to see that.

[flynismo]

Truly, I think we'll be top 5, but was trying to be overly realistic for boards sake. I just cant take anyone being mean to me. I will collapse and go cry in the corner.

I think so too, even with all the new blood. now if our offense can stop being a steaming pile of ape shart, I might have to find something else to whine about....good thing I'm an O's fan

[arnie_uk]

Could it be possible that our offense was so poor last year do to poor play by bad players and injuries? If we were looking to Gino, AQ, Clark, Dickson, Stokely and Doss to raise their level of play then I'm right there with you, but we're not.

I'm not attacking you in any way, just trying to understand, because I find it interesting that you can list the different players that makes this offense nothing like the SB offense, yet you continue to refer to our poor offense last season but seemingly failing to realize that there will be at least 8 new players in this offense. There will be no AQ, Gino, Oher, Leach, Doss, Clark, Dickson or Stokely in the offense this year. Not to mention there is a good chance that most if not all off your injured players will return healthy this year. Who knows how they will perform off injury but getting them back healthy is a plus. So based on the 8 guys who either left or lost starting jobs and the 3 guys coming off injury, not counting Joe and Coby, that's almost 75% of the offense that will be different in some form this year.

As for the draft, again why would you reach for offensive talent just to say you addressed the offense? You caution people from relying on the return of injured players but wouldn't it be even tougher to rely on rookies who've done nothing? In only 5 games before injury Daniels out performed both our TEs full season last season and he's slated to be our #2. I'd say the potential of what he'll bring is worth getting excited about. Pitta nearly out performed those guys in the 4 games he played. Yes they're coming off injury but I'd say we've upgraded that position. Yes Steve Smith is old and technically had a down year but he still projected at 68 catches and close to 800 if he didn't sit out the final game. What are the odds a rookie would do that for us? This offense has improved from last year. I think it's crazy not to see that.

and if we get an injury again and someone like Wagner or Sutton don't step up we've done nothing to improve.

We have only improved slightly, not even to cover for an injury or poor play.

[Ravensfan23]

Is he really a back with the vision required to be an effective zone runner?  I have questions about that too.

Same here, I question his patience as well. It'll be interesting to see where Rice stands with this team if he is indeed suspended and during that time period both BP and LT are thriving in this system. The are both prefect for this system and actually forms a really nice tandem with how they are projected to compliment each other.

Now I'm not ready to run Ray out of town or even suggest he's no longer in favor with the team, I just think it'll be interesting to see how Harbs and Kubes would work him back in if the offense is clicking with the other two backs. Kubes probably doesn't have any loyalty to Ray he'll just want to see the offense succeed. While Harbs has enough loyalty to Rice that he'll probably want to see Rice put everything behind him and get back to being special for the Ravens.

[flynismo]

As long as the passing game gets it's act together, I'm okay with a crap run game. But I guess it goes hand in hand

[T3hRaven]

As long as the passing game gets it's act together, I'm okay with a crap run game. But I guess it goes hand in hand

 

I believe you can run play action off a less than stellar rushing attack.  I still think it's an issue though.

[gabefergy]

As long as the passing game gets it's act together, I'm okay with a crap run game. But I guess it goes hand in hand

I think we saw last year that at least having a semblance of a run game is important. Otherwise teams just Blitz all the time.

[redrum52]

Both. We got a short yardage who can play on 3rd down, but the OL didn't really get upgraded. We are counting on KO being healthy, Wagner being serviceable, Pierce being healthy, and Rice bouncing back. Thats a lot of question marks, and a big reason why I'm concerned about the draft.

The backs are most concerning to me. Think the line holds up with Kubiaks system. Worried slightly about rt though.