The Vent Thread 2014 Draft

[arnie_uk]

Plus last years center was horrible. People are calling Zuttah average but if we can get a center that managed to prevent a sack for an entire season on a below average OL in Tampa, I'm more than happy to have him as an addition.

he let up 3 or 4 most hurries in league though

[redrum52]

getting players back from injury isn't going out and getting improvements it's gambling on them being what they were before they were injured.

Resigning players again, isn't going out and getting improvements, it's keeping the status quo., which was 29th in the league might I add.

Smith and Daniels are one year stop gaps, may help a little, but won't fire us from 29th to top 10. We are really relying on flacco and rice to transform their own seasons and fire us over the top with out improving their chances by adding much talent.

Defence on the other hand should, and needs to keep games close, it can't let up game killing drives this year. We've drafted good d players but if they can't come together and be a top unit this year we could be in big trouble.

I just can't see our offence putting us over the top unless joe takes that step towards "eliteness" and rice can turn back into that pro bowl runner. Personally, I'd have preferred to add talent to help them rather than gambling.

Coaching and upgrading positions is making a difference. Resigning key plays is making a difference. Stop gap or not, players have been added a d almost every move up to the draft was made to help the offense. Resigning a top LT and TE. Keeping JJ then the kther additions isn't ignoring the offense. Neither is adding Smith. We lost one of top defenders and it's funny how people are still mentioning Boldin when most of you said we didnt need him cause Flacco was the one who made him. We have a new OC and QB coach. If the offense doesn't improve it's not due to the front office's lack of trying. Same people who tell others to have faith are now the ones going against the in Ozzie we trust mantra.

Also, for a return to the playoffs we don't need Joe to be elite. A middle of the pack qb type season from him and somewhere around 4.0 ypc from Rice should be enough to get us to the post season. The stink of last years offense is still fresh in peoples mind and had the offense had any kind of stability we would have been in the dance.

[GrimCoconut]

HAHAHA no. i dont think most of us expected brooks to be there at 79. and if you looked at any posts i put up more recently, you'd see me say that after the terrence brooks, this whole draft started to make sense, and that it was a brilliant move to be so patient and stay so true to the board and end up getting a player we really wanted.

I did. I predicted him to us with our third round pick in one of my recent mocks. I won't lie I was pleasantly surprised after all the safeties flew off the board that he last until the third. That was a nice surprise.

[radicals]

I did. I predicted him to us with our third round pick in one of my recent mocks. I won't lie I was pleasantly surprised after all the safeties flew off the board that he last until the third. That was a nice surprise.

So was I, I was thinking he'd be gone before our second pick, beyond happy we selected him in the third round. Brooks was my favorite safety

[izvoodoo]

he let up 3 or 4 most hurries in league though

It's hard to say without seeing the tape on offensive lineman.  Yanda gave up a lot of hurries last year because he was babysitting Ginao.  

 

Not saying it's going to work out, but we won't know a lot until we see him in action.

[D-Rey]

Man I absolutely love this draft. I mean I was disappointed in some draft picks at first, but I see more potential starters in this draft than we've ever had. I honestly see every draft pick being a very good starter in future, except the QB we drafted of course. But even he seems extremely talented. This looks like the best draft we've had in a long time looking at pure talent.

[arnie_uk]

It's hard to say without seeing the tape on offensive lineman. Yanda gave up a lot of hurries last year because he was babysitting Ginao.

Not saying it's going to work out, but we won't know a lot until we see him in action.

im just saying people need to calm expectations. This isn't alex mack or nick mangold here.

[D-Rey]

im just saying people need to calm expectations. This isn't alex mack or nick mangold here.

I don't think anyone is saying he is. He looks very solid. Not every starter has to be a pro bowler.

[Ravensfan23]

it would be putting your offense in the best situation to succed6d5 instead of virtually setting for the status quo.

I could use the exact same argument for the defensive players we just drafted that you used to discredit the offensive ones we didn't draft.

But we have addressed the offense. We've traded like 4 draft picks to upgrade the oline. Those two olineman are proven, not just some prospects. Steve Smith although short term is proven. I hardly think the offense is staying status quo because we've gone out and made the attempt to upgrade. No Oher, Shipley, Gino, Dickson, Clark, Stokely or Caldwell/Hostler all guys we counted on heavily to perform well offensively or scheming they failed. Are the guys replacing them any better? We won't know until they play, but they were definitely brought in as up grades. Status quo would have been not adding anything and hoping Gino, A.Q and Dickson found a way to get better.

Also we've both been around long enough to know Ozzie stays true to his board. Looking back at the draft what offensive guy would you had picked over our defensive pick?. Now remember we only had 4 tradable picks so moving up was nearly impossible. Let's just have some fun and see who would've been your pick.

At 17, I thought CJ was a no brainer given how the board fell and the type of person/player he is. I would have loved Kelvin Benjamin but even as a die hard Noles fan, I wouldn't touch him at 17. There was 5 offensive players selected in round 1 after our pick. 2 QBs, a 2nd round(imo) OT, Cooks who is good but didn't fit what we're looking for Imho and Benjamin. Trading down was the only way we would have gotten good offensive value.

At 48 you had some good value on the board, but Timmy is a legit 10-15 range pick sitting in your face. Noway you thought you'd have this guy available. But he was, surrounded by olineman who projects better inside, WRs who gives you almost the same thing Brown gives you and at least 1 TE who really fits what we want. Plus some of the top RBs. There was only 2 guys i would have even considered over Timmy there. Landry and Niklas but I think Timmy was the easy choice. Remember you are dealing with a back that isn't old and non productive. RB is only a issue because of injury and legal problems. You are also talking about a position where we see more and more late round picks having better production then the top drafted RBs. So do you really wanna go RB over a top 10-15 talent just to say we addressed a need on offense?

Now look at 79, again you are looking at a guy sitting there in your face who want expected to be there. At this point all the WRs left are even more developmental. As are the olineman and you are probably confident that the inline TE your targeting will be there, what other position are you selecting?

I think if we went offense over the first 3 rounds we would have probably been reaching on some guys and certainly not getting great value.

[1/28/01]

But we have addressed the offense. We've traded like 4 draft picks to upgrade the oline. Those two olineman are proven, not just some prospects. Steve Smith although short term is proven. I hardly think the offense is staying status quo because we've gone out and made the attempt to upgrade. No Oher, Shipley, Gino, Dickson, Clark, Stokely or Caldwell/Hostler all guys we counted on heavily to perform well offensively or scheming they failed. Are the guys replacing them any better? We won't know until they play, but they were definitely brought in as up grades. Status quo would have been not adding anything and hoping Gino, A.Q and Dickson found a way to get better.

Also we've both been around long enough to know Ozzie stays true to his board. Looking back at the draft what offensive guy would you had picked over our defensive pick?. Now remember we only had 4 tradable picks so moving up was nearly impossible. Let's just have some fun and see who would've been your pick.

At 17, I thought CJ was a no brainer given how the board fell and the type of person/player he is. I would have loved Kelvin Benjamin but even as a die hard Noles fan, I wouldn't touch him at 17. There was 5 offensive players selected in round 1 after our pick. 2 QBs, a 2nd round(imo) OT, Cooks who is good but didn't fit what we're looking for Imho and Benjamin. Trading down was the only way we would have gotten good offensive value.

At 48 you had some good value on the board, but Timmy is a legit 10-15 range pick sitting in your face. Noway you thought you'd have this guy available. But he was, surrounded by olineman who projects better inside, WRs who gives you almost the same thing Brown gives you and at least 1 TE who really fits what we want. Plus some of the top RBs. There was only 2 guys i would have even considered over Timmy there. Landry and Niklas but I think Timmy was the easy choice. Remember you are dealing with a back that isn't old and non productive. RB is only a issue because of injury and legal problems. You are also talking about a position where we see more and more late round picks having better production then the top drafted RBs. So do you really wanna go RB over a top 10-15 talent just to say we addressed a need on offense?

Now look at 79, again you are looking at a guy sitting there in your face who want expected to be there. At this point all the WRs left are even more developmental. As are the olineman and you are probably confident that the inline TE your targeting will be there, what other position are you selecting?

I think if we went offense over the first 3 rounds we would have probably been reaching on some guys and certainly not getting great value.

Perfectly said.

[Sami84]

I have one problem with brooks. He doesn't get enough interceptions. With his athletic ability its a tad concerning. 

[D-Rey]

I have one problem with brooks. He doesn't get enough interceptions. With his athletic ability its a tad concerning.

That can change though. He puts himself in the right position. Just needs to learn to catch.

[Ravensfan23]

I have one problem with brooks. He doesn't get enough interceptions. With his athletic ability its a tad concerning.

TB can definitely improve his ball skills but I don't think it's concerning. Again he's just 2 years into the FS position so everything you see from him now it's just natural ability and instincts. Once he truly gets the position down and learn how control his angles to the ball the ints will come.

[arnie_uk]

But we have addressed the offense. We've traded like 4 draft picks to upgrade the oline. Those two olineman are proven, not just some prospects. Steve Smith although short term is proven. I hardly think the offense is staying status quo because we've gone out and made the attempt to upgrade. No Oher, Shipley, Gino, Dickson, Clark, Stokely or Caldwell/Hostler all guys we counted on heavily to perform well offensively or scheming they failed. Are the guys replacing them any better? We won't know until they play, but they were definitely brought in as up grades. Status quo would have been not adding anything and hoping Gino, A.Q and Dickson found a way to get better.

Also we've both been around long enough to know Ozzie stays true to his board. Looking back at the draft what offensive guy would you had picked over our defensive pick?. Now remember we only had 4 tradable picks so moving up was nearly impossible. Let's just have some fun and see who would've been your pick.

At 17, I thought CJ was a no brainer given how the board fell and the type of person/player he is. I would have loved Kelvin Benjamin but even as a die hard Noles fan, I wouldn't touch him at 17. There was 5 offensive players selected in round 1 after our pick. 2 QBs, a 2nd round(imo) OT, Cooks who is good but didn't fit what we're looking for Imho and Benjamin. Trading down was the only way we would have gotten good offensive value.

At 48 you had some good value on the board, but Timmy is a legit 10-15 range pick sitting in your face. Noway you thought you'd have this guy available. But he was, surrounded by olineman who projects better inside, WRs who gives you almost the same thing Brown gives you and at least 1 TE who really fits what we want. Plus some of the top RBs. There was only 2 guys i would have even considered over Timmy there. Landry and Niklas but I think Timmy was the easy choice. Remember you are dealing with a back that isn't old and non productive. RB is only a issue because of injury and legal problems. You are also talking about a position where we see more and more late round picks having better production then the top drafted RBs. So do you really wanna go RB over a top 10-15 talent just to say we addressed a need on offense?

Now look at 79, again you are looking at a guy sitting there in your face who want expected to be there. At this point all the WRs left are even more developmental. As are the olineman and you are probably confident that the inline TE your targeting will be there, what other position are you selecting?

I think if we went offense over the first 3 rounds we would have probably been reaching on some guys and certainly not getting great value.

allen robinson or jace amaro would have been my pick at 48. Or cody latimer, nicklas as well. All went in the second.

My pick instead of gilmour would have been any of the next four picks, or andre williams.

I fimrly believe we then could have got Crockett where we took our rb. No tight ends went until 155.

Theses picks may or may not be better than what we done, but at least we would have given our offense a huge chance to improve.

Again I like the players, but id like our front office to go all in after paying a qb like every other team does. I don't see the point paying a qb and still be determined to not put top help around him.

[ravensnick]

I have one problem with brooks. He doesn't get enough interceptions. With his athletic ability its a tad concerning. 

INTs are important for a FS, but Brooks spent most his time before this year at CB. He will get the INTs up. He is the fastest safety prospect in the whole draft and has a huge coverage range, so that should make up for subpar hands.

[ravensnick]

allen robinson or jace amaro would have been my pick at 48. Or cody latimer, nicklas as well. All went in the second.

My pick instead of gilmour would have been any of the next four picks, or andre williams.

I fimrly believe we then could have got Crockett where we took our rb. No tight ends went until 155.

Theses picks may or may not be better than what we done, but at least we would have given our offense a huge chance to improve.

Again I like the players, but id like our front office to go all in after paying a qb like every other team does. I don't see the point paying a qb and still be determined to not put top help around him.

I certainly would take Jernigan over any of the o guys you mentioned. I don't like Andre Williams here, and wouldn't even consider him as a 3rd rounder. Maybe over teams had Crockett rated high as well. We gave a 4th and 5th rounder for Monroe, who is a top 10 tackle. We got Daniels, who has top 10 TE potential is he can stay healthy. Traded for Zuttah, who should be a solid center and didn't give up a sack all season on a bad Tampa Bay O-line. We have a ton of WR depth and we have two young players there our FO really like. I think the main problems last year were KO's injury and the OT (before Monroe) sloppy play. 

[GrimCoconut]

I certainly would take Jernigan over any of the o guys you mentioned. I don't like Andre Williams here, and wouldn't even consider him as a 3rd rounder. Maybe over teams had Crockett rated high as well. We gave a 4th and 5th rounder for Monroe, who is a top 10 tackle. We got Daniels, who has top 10 TE potential is he can stay healthy. Traded for Zuttah, who should be a solid center and didn't give up a sack all season on a bad Tampa Bay O-line. We have a ton of WR depth and we have two young players there our FO really like. I think the main problems last year were KO's injury and the OT (before Monroe) sloppy play. 

I wouldn't want Williams for a while. Freeman was who I wanted at #99. Still disappointed we passed on him. Freeman and Desir is how I would've gone, personally. I love Urban and Crockett as well.

[ravensnick]

I wouldn't want Williams for a while. Freeman was who I wanted at #99. Still disappointed we passed on him. Freeman and Desir is how I would've gone, personally. I love Urban and Crockett as well.

We almost got Desir in the 4th round too. the Browns nabbed him only like 4 picks before we took urban.

[GrimCoconut]

We almost got Desir in the 4th round too. the Browns nabbed him only like 4 picks before we took urban.

I'm not sure if we were even considering him, honestly.

[ravensnick]

I'm not sure if we were even considering him, honestly.

We had to have been. BPA would have made sense with him.

[JoeyFlex5]

I did. I predicted him to us with our third round pick in one of my recent mocks. I won't lie I was pleasantly surprised after all the safeties flew off the board that he last until the third. That was a nice surprise.

yea i honestly thought he was worth a 2nd round pick. its a reach where we were picking though, and we got a first round talent in the mid 2nd, at the time though, i was not a happy camper. i was yelling at my tv "I GUESS ELAMS GONNA PLAY FREE AGAIN THIS YEAR" but the fact that he was still on the board in the third was shocking and picking him there made this draft look pretty brilliant

[arnie_uk]

Let me just make myself clear here, I'm not criticising the draft, I actually like it, Im just not sure we have done enough on offence to improve greatly from 29th. We are putting a lot of pressure on flacco and rice it get it together and kubiak to sort our line and play calling out. I don't think we have enough pure talent to overcome some phase of the game failing like last year.

But looking at each pick, Mosley was a good pick. I may have looked hard at Dennard there as well, because I think he will be a very good corner, and we play a lot of nickel. Having him and jimmy press man on outside with, Webb in the slot would have been great to see as well. But I think Mosley will be a good player, injuries concern me slightly, and the fact we invested quite a lot in the position recently, trading up for art brown and signing smith to a 4 yr deal. But a good player is a good player.

Jernigan again, good player, but I don't see much pass rush from him, and that's the kind of interior lineman I think we needed. He plays with high intensity, great run stuffer, physical, attitude, seems a better fit for a 43, does this signal a change? I've already said possible picks I would have went instead.

Brooks, I love and great value, I would have been happy with him and 48. Greta center fielder, ok tackler, won't let us get best over the top as much as last year. May not get turnovers as many would like, but will keep all in front of him which is what we need. Importantly seals elams switch to ss which will be a great improvement.

Crockett, like the player, blocking tight end was needed, badly. Will be great redzone target, like the lions use fauria. Won't blow past many, but has decent short area quickness and change of direct. Decent hands, won't light the world on fire but it'll be useful. If joes under pressure he will help him out greatly. His height and wingspan will help with lack of separation.

Know very little about the running back. Apparently good pass blocker which again was needs as rice and pierce are awful at this.

Guard, smart, could easily play centre in future and handle the calls. Atheltic enough, good run blocker, strong, and gets second level well. Will be good depth initially. Can play all three interior positions probably.

Back up qb, will create comp for Tyrod, not expecting much with him though.

Don't kiwi much about the de, but he has good size and length, good be a solid role player.

Haven't watched much of the wideout either, I will probably do that this evening.

So all in all, good draft, defence refreshed, good depth everywhere, except cornerback. Should be hard to run on, making teams one dimensional. Expect a lot from them, not blowing games right at the end.

Offence as talked about, I think we are relying to much on kubes, ray and joe to light it up. Helpfully the oline comes together as that will go a long way. Not expecting fireworks though, and could take 8 or so games to hit on all cylinders with the new playbooks so let's hope the d can do enough to keep us in games until then.

[Ravensfan23]

allen robinson or jace amaro would have been my pick at 48. Or cody latimer, nicklas as well. All went in the second.

My pick instead of gilmour would have been any of the next four picks, or andre williams.

I fimrly believe we then could have got Crockett where we took our rb. No tight ends went until 155.

Theses picks may or may not be better than what we done, but at least we would have given our offense a huge chance to improve.

Again I like the players, but id like our front office to go all in after paying a qb like every other team does. I don't see the point paying a qb and still be determined to not put top help around him.

I definitely understand where you're coming from but again it's about value. You either stay true to your board of you don't. You said you would have taken Robinson instead of Timmy. Well Robinson was taken 13 picks after the Ravens took Timmy. Be honest, if Robinson wasn't a favorite of yours, would you consider that a reach to select a perceived need? Also i just watched the post draft presser and I feel stronger about this then before. Given what we know about Brown, a heck of a rookie season despite a overall poor offense, is Robinson a upgrade over him or at least brings something different to the offense? I say no. So for me what's the point of adding a guy who is similar to a 2nd year guy that we already have, only to basically havethose guys compete for the same spot?

Imo Jace would have been aluxury pick. He's a younger bigger Pitta. That's great but it's kinda a waste. Pitta isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Kubes uses a inline TE and move TE in his 2TE sets. With Jace and Pitta you basically have 2 move guys and no blocking unless you go 3TE. He'll be a helluva player I think but doesn't fit what we are doing.

As far as swapping out Gilmore for one of the higher rated RBs, here's the problem. Again you need a inline TE for what Kubes wants to do. Gilmore is one of the better inline TEs in this draft and a guy Kubes really liked from what I hear. Gilmore probably has more of a 4th round grade, but you have no more original picks until the 6th round. So if you pass on him now how can you bank on being able to draft him later knowing you can't trade up. RBs are gonna be there, most are a dime a dozen, but a quality inline TE isn't. Rember Ozzie doesn't have hindsight.

Also with the pick of Taliferro, Eric said he was one of the best pass pro backs they had rated. Most of the top backs struggle in that area. Remember how poor our backs were at that last year? We're taking about upgrading right. Andre Williams isn't good at pass pro and offers next to nothing as a pass catcher. Is that really a upgrade or just a well-known name?

You stay you would have taken the next 4 picks over Gilmore. Well Thomas will have to red shirt his first year and he's probably a better guard then OT, does that really up grade us? Watkins is more of a ST guy and my might be able to slide into your nickle, but I don't see him as a upgrade over Chikye. Both Breeland and Freeman would have been really good picks but agian, if the inline TE is among your top 3 rated guys and you know you have no ammo to move up in the next round if need be, how do you pass on that guy?

[GrimCoconut]

We had to have been. BPA would have made sense with him.

So say you and I. Ozzie and Co might have a different opinion.

 

yea i honestly thought he was worth a 2nd round pick. its a reach where we were picking though, and we got a first round talent in the mid 2nd, at the time though, i was not a happy camper. i was yelling at my tv "I GUESS ELAMS GONNA PLAY FREE AGAIN THIS YEAR" but the fact that he was still on the board in the third was shocking and picking him there made this draft look pretty brilliant

Yeah. Brooks I know made people happy.

[Ravensfan23]

Arnie I definitely get where you're coming from. I just feel when you have a philosophy likethe Ravens do of sticking to your board, it's hard to go away from that to start picking for need.

As for why it seem we look to always upgrade the defense through the draft is because we believe in building a team that way and it's easier to draft defenders. On defense you have anywhere between 18-24 players getting gave action every week because you rotate those guys. Offense isn't the same.

On defense if a guy isn't as good early on, you can still get him on the field because of rotations. Case and point, Cody as a 2nd rounder has been less then impressive overall, yet the defense can still preform at a high level despite his spotty play. However, if Torrey Smith followed the same path as Cody, being less than impressive, our offense would struggle greatly.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's easier to over come amiss on defense then it is on offense.

[arnie_uk]

Arnie I definitely get where you're coming from. I just feel when you have a philosophy likethe Ravens do of sticking to your board, it's hard to go away from that to start picking for need.

As for why it seem we look to always upgrade the defense through the draft is because we believe in building a team that way and it's easier to draft defenders. On defense you have anywhere between 18-24 players getting gave action every week because you rotate those guys. Offense isn't the same.

On defense if a guy isn't as good early on, you can still get him on the field because of rotations. Case and point, Cody as a 2nd rounder has been less then impressive overall, yet the defense can still preform at a high level despite his spotty play. However, if Torrey Smith followed the same path as Cody, being less than impressive, our offense would struggle greatly.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's easier to over come amiss on defense then it is on offense.

last sentence. Wouldn't that dictate taking offence higher as you need better players?

[T3hRaven]

last sentence. Wouldn't that dictate taking offence higher as you need better players?

But arnie, defense wins championships.

[BloodRaven]

I'm not sure if we were even considering him, honestly.

 

 

We had to have been. BPA would have made sense with him.

 

 

We probably weren't, Ozzies board is (surprise surprise) different to the draftnik boards. Just another flavor of the month.

[Ravensfan23]

last sentence. Wouldn't that dictate taking offence higher as you need better players?

Not really. I think it makes you look at the offensive guy and make sure you are 100% sold on that guy. If you aren't sure a guy like Allen Robinson being a up grade over what you have in Marlon Brown, then you are probably more inclined to go for the defensive guy(if the ratings are the same) because with the defensive guy even if he's similar to what you already have you can still rotate him on. Chances are if select Robinson, he and Brown won't rotate and split reps. One of those guys will probably be buried down your depth chart, much like Doss was buried for years, being a similar player to Boldin.

[izvoodoo]

im just saying people need to calm expectations. This isn't alex mack or nick mangold here.

Agreed