Ravensdan's Forum Mock Best/Worst of

[Mt. Crushmore]

I think his ranking is dependent on how you view certain positions. He's a Michael Bennett type of player, he's a 4-3 end in your base defense who's pass rushing skills translate better to the interior, so he'll get kicked inside on those downs. That might be a knock to some people.

IMO that's a plus. Versatility.

[gabefergy]

Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I transformed a very questionable DL into what is on paper the best in the league. Trading for Jurrell Casey and Malik Jackson and signing Antonio Smith and Willie Young to play along side Clay Matthews and Mike Daniels is an absolutely fearsome unit with no weakness. It's deep, young, and extremely talented with pass-rushing and run stopping ability.

[gabefergy]

I also think Cody Latimer in round 4 is the steal of the draft.

[-Truth-]

Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I transformed a very questionable DL into what is on paper the best in the league. Trading for Jurrell Casey and Malik Jackson and signing Antonio Smith and Willie Young to play along side Clay Matthews and Mike Daniels is an absolutely fearsome unit with no weakness. It's deep, young, and extremely talented with pass-rushing and run stopping ability.

 

Agreed on the above point regarding Latimer. And your DL by itself is remarkable. I wouldn't call it the clear cut best, but only because there are quite a few top tier units out there. Cincinnati's DL combination of Geno Atkins, Jason Hatcher, Carlos Dunlap, Trent Cole and Lamarr Woodley is a quite fearsome. New York's trio would've been up there if Damon Harrison was around. And I'd consider my unit of being up there as well with their 2013 success and the additions that have been made.

[gabefergy]

Agreed on the above point regarding Latimer. And your DL by itself is remarkable. I wouldn't call it the clear cut best, but only because there are quite a few top tier units out there. Cincinnati's DL combination of Geno Atkins, Jason Hatcher, Carlos Dunlap, Trent Cole and Lamarr Woodley is a quite fearsome. New York's trio would've been up there if Damon Harrison was around. And I'd consider my unit of being up there as well with their 2013 success and the additions that have been made.

I don't think any other unit has the same quality depth and versatility, but of course I am biased.

[52520Andrew]

IMO that's a plus. Versatility.

 

I agree, edge rushers get all the glory but it is the guys in the middle who do the most damage as last year should have proved to a lot of people

[-Truth-]

I don't think any other unit has the same quality depth and versatility, but of course I am biased.

 

I strongly disagree. With regards to Cincinnati, having Woodley as a reserve is a notable feat. Atkins is a Top 2 DT in the league, while Hatcher is somewhere in the Top 10. Both Dunlap and Cole were in the higher echelon last season. That group is at least equally as effective on paper. With regards to my own unit, Brandon Mebane, Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril were among the Top 10 at their position, and the only thing holding back Dan Williams and Mike Martin from being even more productive was the lack of snaps, as neither saw 300 this season. Jeremy Mincey has been a strong run defender over the years. Not to mention having two likely early round DEs as reserves in Marcus Smith and Scott Crichton. I'm not ready to name a winner between those units, but my unit is nowhere near inferior in terms of quality depth.

[rmw10]

I really need to pick a team that has a bit more in place next year.  With such a massive rebuild, it was impossible to actually build completely strong depth at any of my positions.  It would be nice to actually start with a strong cast and add to it next year instead of taking on a daunting task such as the Browns lol.

[T3hRaven]

I think some teams tried to do too much.  Development and some thought into what was already there seemed to be ignored in a lot of cases.  Maybe that's the fantasy football aspect that comes into this mock, I just know that I tried to manage my team in as realistic a fashion as possible.

[rmw10]

I think some teams tried to do too much.  Development and some thought into what was already there seemed to be ignored in a lot of cases.  Maybe that's the fantasy football aspect that comes into this mock, I just know that I tried to manage my team in as realistic a fashion as possible.

 

I probably did, honestly.  It was my first time playing so I really wasn't sure how free agency worked.  I would have spent more on depth compared to the starters than I did, but from descriptions of exorbitant prices in last year's game, it made me worry that I'd end with tons of cap and not much to show for it.  Now that I know how things work, I think I could build a much better team.

[52520Andrew]

I think some teams tried to do too much.  Development and some thought into what was already there seemed to be ignored in a lot of cases.  Maybe that's the fantasy football aspect that comes into this mock, I just know that I tried to manage my team in as realistic a fashion as possible.

 

Yeah I tried to keep it as realistic as I could and build mostly through the draft. I did get rid of a couple pieces due to the cap but I had to lol. Granted I kinda was forced into my moves most of the time anyways so yeah

 

Of course if I wanted to be really realistic, I would have made a bunch of terrible moves as the real Cowboys would

[T3hRaven]

Yeah I tried to keep it as realistic as I could and build mostly through the draft. I did get rid of a couple pieces due to the cap but I had to lol. Granted I kinda was forced into my moves most of the time anyways so yeah

 

Of course if I wanted to be really realistic, I would have made a bunch of terrible moves as the real Cowboys would

 

I'm going to try to do division standings and managerial competency rankings, you have a shot in one of them.  The Cowboys have to be graded on a curve.

[52520Andrew]

I'm going to try to do division standings and managerial competency rankings, you have a shot in one of them.  The Cowboys have to be graded on a curve.

 

Hey that is fine, curves are always good in my book lol

[rmw10]

Hey that is fine, curves are always good in my book lol

 

Only so much you can do with negative cap space, bad moves from the previous owner, and taking over in the middle of the process.

[T3hRaven]

I don't think it'd be fair to do one without the other. There are teams I think did a good job, but someone has to be projected to finish last.

[Challenge Accepted]

I'm going to try to do division standings and managerial competency rankings, you have a shot in one of them.  The Cowboys have to be graded on a curve.

Don't forget the saints too

[gabefergy]

I strongly disagree. With regards to Cincinnati, having Woodley as a reserve is a notable feat. Atkins is a Top 2 DT in the league, while Hatcher is somewhere in the Top 10. Both Dunlap and Cole were in the higher echelon last season. That group is at least equally as effective on paper. With regards to my own unit, Brandon Mebane, Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril were among the Top 10 at their position, and the only thing holding back Dan Williams and Mike Martin from being even more productive was the lack of snaps, as neither saw 300 this season. Jeremy Mincey has been a strong run defender over the years. Not to mention having two likely early round DEs as reserves in Marcus Smith and Scott Crichton. I'm not ready to name a winner between those units, but my unit is nowhere near inferior in terms of quality depth.

Cincinatti does have a very strong DL, but like I said the depth isn't comparable to what I have. Atkins is coming back from a torn ACL and while Hatcher is a very talented pass-rusher, he is somewhat one dimensional in that aspect. I do think the Bengals have more depth on the edge, but Clay is a superior player to Cole or Dunlap and Young is no slouch either.

 

I have 4 elite interior pass-rushers in Casey, Jackson, Daniels, and Smith that I can rotate. No other team has that depth. Just those 4 alone combined for 28 sacks, 30 hits and an incredible 120 hurries.

 

Your Seattle line's strength is clearly on the edges with Bennett and Avril, who are very good players, but the interior disruption is flat out missing. Williams is a run-stuffing NT and Mebane's value stems primarily from his work against the run as well. He had a total of zero sacks last season and has only 13 career sacks in 7 seasons. Similar to the Bengals you are also lacking in depth at DT which was a main reason for the unit's success in season's past.

[gabefergy]

I think some teams tried to do too much.  Development and some thought into what was already there seemed to be ignored in a lot of cases.  Maybe that's the fantasy football aspect that comes into this mock, I just know that I tried to manage my team in as realistic a fashion as possible.

I felt like I needed to retool my defense, especially the front 7. I pretty much traded away all the players who were not getting it done and brought in players that I felt would be an upgrade. I left my offense almost completely intact though.

[arnie_uk]

I got screwed in the draft, three first round picks and didn't get any of ther players I wanted a each spot. The likes of Mack, Donald and Barr were my main targets.

[T3hRaven]

Cincinatti does have a very strong DL, but like I said the depth isn't comparable to what I have. Atkins is coming back from a torn ACL and while Hatcher is a very talented pass-rusher, he is somewhat one dimensional in that aspect. I do think the Bengals have more depth on the edge, but Clay is a superior player to Cole or Dunlap and Young is no slouch either.

 

I have 4 elite interior pass-rushers in Casey, Jackson, Daniels, and Smith that I can rotate. No other team has that depth. Just those 4 alone combined for 28 sacks, 30 hits and an incredible 120 hurries.

 

Your Seattle line's strength is clearly on the edges with Bennett and Avril, who are very good players, but the interior disruption is flat out missing. Williams is a run-stuffing NT and Mebane's value stems primarily from his work against the run as well. He had a total of zero sacks last season and has only 13 career sacks in 7 seasons. Similar to the Bengals you are also lacking in depth at DT which was a main reason for the unit's success in season's past.

 

Seattle kicks its DEs  in on rush downs, are you taking that into account?  The evaluation of that DL, assuming that's how Truth is running it, should be a little different because of that.

[Mt. Crushmore]

I got screwed in the draft, three first round picks and didn't get any of ther players I wanted a each spot. The likes of Mack, Donald and Barr were my main targets.

 

Robinson, Dennard, and Beckham Jr. is still a good haul.

[gabefergy]

Seattle kicks its DEs  in on rush downs, are you taking that into account?  The evaluation of that DL, assuming that's how Truth is running it, should be a little different because of that.

Well with his roster, the only guy that can do that is Bennett. Then he is counting on unproven rookies to win on the edge.

[T3hRaven]

Well with his roster, the only guy that can do that is Bennett. Then he is counting on unproven rookies to win on the edge.

 

Fair enough, I figured you didn't forget.  I'm not that familiar with his roster, the only rankings I'm done with are the AFC North and NFC North.

[ravensdan]

Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I transformed a very questionable DL into what is on paper the best in the league. Trading for Jurrell Casey and Malik Jackson and signing Antonio Smith and Willie Young to play along side Clay Matthews and Mike Daniels is an absolutely fearsome unit with no weakness. It's deep, young, and extremely talented with pass-rushing and run stopping ability.

Defensive line was the toughest to pick one team. I almost picked Green Bay. Also seatles unit is right there as well as Houston and I think my giants are right there as well with Dline being their strength. Also Baltimore not too far behind as well.

[T3hRaven]

Defensive line was the toughest to pick one team. I almost picked Green Bay. Also seatles unit is right there as well as Houston and I think my giants are right there as well with Dline being their strength. Also Baltimore not too far behind as well.

 

The problem with his is he has it listed as a 3-4, but his personnel is way more suited for the 4-3.

[ravensdan]

The problem with his is he has it listed as a 3-4, but his personnel is way more suited for the 4-3.

I thought that as well. I'm sure they will be multiple.

FYI I only looked at the depth charts posted. Kc is not included.

[-Truth-]

Cincinatti does have a very strong DL, but like I said the depth isn't comparable to what I have. Atkins is coming back from a torn ACL and while Hatcher is a very talented pass-rusher, he is somewhat one dimensional in that aspect. I do think the Bengals have more depth on the edge, but Clay is a superior player to Cole or Dunlap and Young is no slouch either.

 

I have 4 elite interior pass-rushers in Casey, Jackson, Daniels, and Smith that I can rotate. No other team has that depth. Just those 4 alone combined for 28 sacks, 30 hits and an incredible 120 hurries.

 

Your Seattle line's strength is clearly on the edges with Bennett and Avril, who are very good players, but the interior disruption is flat out missing. Williams is a run-stuffing NT and Mebane's value stems primarily from his work against the run as well. He had a total of zero sacks last season and has only 13 career sacks in 7 seasons. Similar to the Bengals you are also lacking in depth at DT which was a main reason for the unit's success in season's past.

 

There is a difference depth between your DL and Cincinnati's is noted, but having Woodley as a reserve makes up a lot of ground given his starting four. Atkins is returning from the ACL tear, but given his age and natural physical ability, I don't expect a drop off. Clay Matthews had a down year because of injuries, which brings questions into 2014, and I wouldn't count him out neither. Hatcher graded out slightly negative as a run defender, but he was playing on one of the least talented Defensive Lines in football. He fared very well as a run defender in 2012, with a more capable unit, and would thrive alongside of Atkins and Dunlap. I slightly prefer his starters and slightly prefer your depth, personally.

 

There's no denying your versatility on the interior, but Smith is the only depth player of the three. The others are starters and would be difficult to keep off the field. And while Young is solid, he'll spend most of his time at LB, where you can afford to lose a starter, not with how poorly Calvin Pace or Shea McClellin fared last season.

 

Mebane's 0 sacks isn't close to an accurate depiction of his pass rushing ability. He was the 6th most productive DT in that facet on a per snap basis, 4 spots ahead of Jackson, and graded out two spots under him in that department despite seeing 35% less pass rushing snaps. Labeling Jackson as an elite interior pass rusher in one breath and then knocking Mebane in that same post is a biased move. If we begin backtracking in terms of players' careers, Casey was a poor pass rusher the season before, worse than Mebane, and Jackson was below average too. Granted that they were both inexperienced, but it applies to Young as well, so it's a two way street. Agreed on Williams, but even as a 0 Technique, he managed to disrupt some as a pass rusher. And your assessment doesn't account for Martin, who fared very well last season on a minuscule amount of snaps. He was also 4th in pass rushing productivity the year before when given an active role and was one of the best DTs in 2012. With that in mind, I could not disagree more about my supposed lack of depth at DT. Apart from the players already mentioned, I may be higher on Calvin Barnett than most, but I have faith in him as a rotational player. George Uko can be a serviceable pass rusher at the 3 Tech, and Ken Bishop is climbing boards. In addition, both Bennett and Crichton played a significant amount of snaps inside, and Smith routinely proved to be capable of getting by Guards. The latter two aren't even mentioned in your post. My depth at DT is far from being lackluster. The same can't be said for your depth in the edge rushing department, however. If Matthews doesn't return to form or is once again affected by injuries, your best edge rusher would be Young, followed by either Pace or McClellin on the other side. My depth at DE, on the other hand, is arguably at the very top.

[rmw10]

Well, if anybody wants to bolster the DL and truly make theirs the best, Clowney can be had if you can get me Andrew Luck and 1st round picks for the next 10 years.

[gabefergy]

There is a difference depth between your DL and Cincinnati's is noted, but having Woodley as a reserve makes up a lot of ground given his starting four. Atkins is returning from the ACL tear, but given his age and natural physical ability, I don't expect a drop off. Clay Matthews had a down year because of injuries, which brings questions into 2014, and I wouldn't count him out neither. Hatcher graded out slightly negative as a run defender, but he was playing on one of the least talented Defensive Lines in football. He fared very well as a run defender in 2012, with a more capable unit, and would thrive alongside of Atkins and Dunlap. I slightly prefer his starters and slightly prefer your depth, personally.

 

There's no denying your versatility on the interior, but Smith is the only depth player of the three. The others are starters and would be difficult to keep off the field. And while Young is solid, he'll spend most of his time at LB, where you can afford to lose a starter, not with how poorly Calvin Pace or Shea McClellin fared last season.

 

Mebane's 0 sacks isn't close to an accurate depiction of his pass rushing ability. He was the 6th most productive DT in that facet on a per snap basis, 4 spots ahead of Jackson, and graded out two spots under him in that department despite seeing 35% less pass rushing snaps. Labeling Jackson as an elite interior pass rusher in one breath and then knocking Mebane in that same post is a biased move. If we begin backtracking in terms of players' careers, Casey was a poor pass rusher the season before, worse than Mebane, and Jackson was below average too. Granted that they were both inexperienced, but it applies to Young as well, so it's a two way street. Agreed on Williams, but even as a 0 Technique, he managed to disrupt some as a pass rusher. And your assessment doesn't account for Martin, who fared very well last season on a minuscule amount of snaps. He was also 4th in pass rushing productivity the year before when given an active role and was one of the best DTs in 2012. With that in mind, I could not disagree more about my supposed lack of depth at DT. Apart from the players already mentioned, I may be higher on Calvin Barnett than most, but I have faith in him as a rotational player. George Uko can be a serviceable pass rusher at the 3 Tech, and Ken Bishop is climbing boards. In addition, both Bennett and Crichton played a significant amount of snaps inside, and Smith routinely proved to be capable of getting by Guards. The latter two aren't even mentioned in your post. My depth at DT is far from being lackluster. The same can't be said for your depth in the edge rushing department, however. If Matthews doesn't return to form or is once again affected by injuries, your best edge rusher would be Young, followed by either Pace or McClellin on the other side. My depth at DE, on the other hand, is arguably at the very top.

I have numerous proven interior pass-rushers, and they are versatile to line up in different schemes. My sub-packages where interior pressure is most important will have a rotation of Casey, Jackson, Smith, and Daniels with Matthews and Young off the edge. No other team has close to that. That's not even mentioning Datone Jones or Nate Collins who can both provide an interior rush as well. On the edge my depth is just fine. Ethan Westbrooks is a rookie, but he has potential to be a very good player and since when did Calvin Pace perform poorly last season? That's news to me. He notched 10 sacks and had the same pass-rush productivity as Trent Cole and was higher than Carlos Dunlap. Shea McClellin has been a bust, but he has completely transformed his body in the offseason and is poised for a break-out year. 

 

0 sacks matters. Mebane was able to generate pressure, but not getting home is a big difference. He's the only player you have on the interior and the production isn't there, and why are you talking about previous seasons? Mebane was very poor the season before and so was Avril if you want to go down that road. Let's not talk about things that are irrelevant. The rest of your "depth" are late round rookies. Any impact they might have is highly questionable, unproven, and lackluster, and your depth at DE is once again rookies. Rookie pass-rushers do not have a very good track record in the NFL. 

[GrimCoconut]

The problem with his is he has it listed as a 3-4, but his personnel is way more suited for the 4-3.

I'm just too lazy to change it. That's all.