Draft a Franchise: Discussion

[gabefergy]

I wouldn't go that far. While they have generally supplied him with some weapons, that team isn't built particularly well and their problems were only exacerbated by the foolhardy Julio Jones trade.

Well he needs to have elite talent around him to win. That was painfully obvious last season. He isn't a good athlete and he has an average arm. Overall I think he is a smart player with good accuracy, but put him in a muddied pocket and things can get ugly. He needs to have a clean pocket to succeed, especially making downfield throws.

His track record in big games is a whole Issue in itself.

[Sizzlebshu]

Maybe you could just stop with the personal jabs? Not part of the game and not worth it.

Hey making fun of Matt Ryan is a time honored tradition on this board

[berad]

Hey making fun of Matt Ryan is a time honored tradition on this board

 

I agree wholeheartedly and glad lend my hand when I can! But attacking the poster isn't allowed.

 

Ryan was in the running for cheesiest QB but Brees was always top dog

[T3hRaven]

I agree wholeheartedly and glad lend my hand when I can! But attacking the poster isn't allowed.

 

Ryan was in the running for cheesiest QB but Brees was always top dog

 

I wouldn't count out Russell Wilson in that competition.

[gabefergy]

Can I pay someone to allow to me neg a post multiple times? Matt Ryan needs to be in the red.

[-Truth-]

I wouldn't go that far.  While they have generally supplied him with some weapons, that team isn't built particularly well and their problems were only exacerbated by the foolhardy Julio Jones trade.

 

Agreed there. It also didn't help that they also missed on both of their first selections in the following Draft, a Center and OT, and are now experiencing major issues on the Offensive Line because of that. To add on, Ryan was highly underrated in the intermediate and deep passes the year before, when his pass protection wasn't completely inept. They were, at best, a torrid unit in 2013. His arm strength is better than some believe. He was 3rd in the throwing challenge when coming out behind Joe Flacco and Chad Henne. I personally don't see 62 yards as an indication of a noddle arm. Velocity is obviously part of the equation, and I've seen his squeeze a few balls into tight windows. He's shown off his arm on occasion, but Dirk Koetter doesn't implement a ton of vertical routes. They relied more on working in between the hashes, and underneath routes like slow middle screens to the RBs. I'd be surprised if Ryan wasn't among faster QBs in time after the snap before the throw. He does fare better with a clean pocket, but that's the case with nearly, if not every non-dual threat QB. Overall, I find Ryan to be a smart, fast decision maker with terrific accuracy, a quick release and pretty good but not elite arm strength. I'll live with that.

[SecretAgentMan]

Wow. I wasn't even part of it this time

[T3hRaven]

Well he needs to have elite talent around him to win. That was painfully obvious last season. He isn't a good athlete and he has an average arm. Overall I think he is a smart player with good accuracy, but put him in a muddied pocket and things can get ugly. He needs to have a clean pocket to succeed, especially making downfield throws.

His track record in big games is a whole Issue in itself.

 

I'd say if you put him in New England's system he might be able to match Brady's regular season success, but so did Matt Cassel.

[berad]

I wouldn't count out Russell Wilson in that competition.

 

Good call - he made a strong push between the end of 2012 to 2014, under the tutelage of his coach.

 

Andrew Luck is a contender, congratulating defenders after they hit him

 

RG3 whines a lot but when he isn't he's cheesy.

[NFLfan123]

Can I pay someone to allow to me neg a post multiple times? Matt Ryan needs to be in the red.

Sure send me the money in the mail

[T3hRaven]

Good call - he made a strong push between the end of 2012 to 2014, under the tutelage of his coach.

 

Andrew Luck is a contender, congratulating defenders after they hit him

 

RG3 whines a lot but when he isn't he's cheesy.

 

I think he really is just an awkward nerd who got into football because of family legacy.  He might be the guy whose QBs on Facebook personality is actually accurate.

[berad]

I think he really is just an awkward nerd who got into football because of family legacy. He might be the guy whose QBs on Facebook personality is actually accurate.

That's a good point. A neckbeard blessed with great athletic ability and a big frame.

[T3hRaven]

That's a good point. A neckbeard blessed with great athletic ability and a big frame.

 

That thing is pretty nasty though, for real.

[ravensdan]

I don't think there's any question flacco should have been the third qb drafted in this game. He has the combination if physical tools as well as the ability to come up big in big situations. Combined with age. Is the ideal building block for this game.

Sure Ryan can be successful but is a much more limited that flacco in all of these aspects except age.

[T3hRaven]

I don't think there's any question flacco should have been the third qb drafted in this game. He has the combination if physical tools as well as the ability to come up big in big situations. Combined with age. Is the ideal building block for this game.

Sure Ryan can be successful but is a much more limited that flacco in all of these aspects except age.

 

I think Ryan is better at reading the defense pre and post snap.  He probably has better pocket presence, although Joe's gotten better in that aspect.

[ravensdan]

I think Ryan is better at reading the defense pre and post snap. He probably has better pocket presence, although Joe's gotten better in that aspect.

I don't think either is far superior in that aspect. They fall short of manning, Brady, Bree's. Superior to luck. Similar to Rodgers. Pocket awareness joe is much better than two years ago. Mobility flacco is extremely accurate on the move. Same as Rodgers. We just haven't taken advantage of that enough.

[-Truth-]

I think Ryan is better at reading the defense pre and post snap.  He probably has better pocket presence, although Joe's gotten better in that aspect.

 

No question there about Ryan, in my mind. Agreed on Flacco's improvement in that area.

[PuRock]

No question there about Ryan, in my mind. Agreed on Flacco's improvement in that area.

 

I don't mind your Ryan pick either.  I think when you get around this area of QBs, they all struggle with winning the SB if they don't have elite talent surrounding them.  

 

Sure Joe won the SB, but how close did it come to disaster if it weren't for Jacoby Jones returning a kick, Boldin making an unbelievable grab, or Jimmy Smith shutting it down.  Also, Its not like Joe carried the Ravens on his back in 2013 when they were missing a lot of pieces just like Matt Ryan in 2013.  Both had horrid OLs, and were missing pieces down the field.

 

Each guy has their ups and downs and their pluses and minuses.  

[gabefergy]

I don't mind your Ryan pick either. I think when you get around this area of QBs, they all struggle with winning the SB if they don't have elite talent surrounding them.

Sure Joe won the SB, but how close did it come to disaster if it weren't for Jacoby Jones returning a kick, Boldin making an unbelievable grab, or Jimmy Smith shutting it down. Also, Its not like Joe carried the Ravens on his back in 2013 when they were missing a lot of pieces just like Matt Ryan in 2013. Both had horrid OLs, and were missing pieces down the field.

Each guy has their ups and downs and their pluses and minuses.

One is 9-4 in the playoffs with a SB MVP, the other is 1-4 with some embarrassing losses.

They both had poor years last season under similar circumstances so that's pretty much a wash.

[PuRock]

One is 9-4 in the playoffs with a SB MVP, the other is 1-4 with some embarrassing losses.

They both had poor years last season under similar circumstances so that's pretty much a wash.

Agreed, and for me the playoff experience is the deciding factor and a major plus for Flacco. But Ryan isn't all to blame for their lack of playoff sucess, and likewise for Flacco's success.

[NFLfan123]

Dalton is a guy who should've gone over BOTH flacco and Ryan

[stm85]

I don't think there's any question flacco should have been the third qb drafted in this game. He has the combination if physical tools as well as the ability to come up big in big situations. Combined with age. Is the ideal building block for this game.

Sure Ryan can be successful but is a much more limited that flacco in all of these aspects except age.

 

I think there are a lot of questions after the top 2. It's hard to fault any of the QBs that were picked. I'd break them into 3 groups depending on what owners were looking for.

 

Win Now Group:

1. Peyton Manning

2. Drew Brees

3. Tom Brady

4. Philip Rivers

 

In Their Prime Group:

1. Joe Flacco

2. Matt Ryan

 

Upside Group:

1. Russell Wilson

2. Cam Newton

3. Colin Kaepernick

 

To me you can win a title with an offense built around any of these guys. Whichever group you go after depends on how you are building a team and honestly the rankings are a matter of preference. With the exception of Rivers, all of these rankings are virtually interchangeable. 

[52520Andrew]

Dalton is a guy who should've gone over BOTH flacco and Ryan

I agree, someone is landing a MAJOR steal there

[NFLfan123]

I agree, someone is landing a MAJOR steal there

He better be taken with this pick. It'd be moronic to pass on him.

[rmw10]

What about Mark Sanchez?!

[allblackraven]

He better be taken with this pick. It'd be moronic to pass on him.

Someone scared of losing Schaub?

[NFLfan123]

Someone scared of losing Schaub?

Another great QB

How is he still available

[52520Andrew]

Don't forget the Barry Church is still available as well. He can really let you be flexible with the defense

[NFLfan123]

Don't forget the Barry Church is still available as well. He can really let you be flexible with the defense

Way to early to go sAfety. You gotta go QB in the first. Carson Palmer is another good guy left

[52520Andrew]

Way to early to go sAfety. You gotta go QB in the first. Carson Palmer is another good guy left

Yes but Barry Church is no ordinary safety