Draft a Franchise: Discussion

[allblackraven]

The helmet and mascot aren't showing up, but I like the name. Dunno who else will see what you did with it.

 

Hrm, both images are http links, I can see them here. Have rechecked permissions on that web server, all seems fine.

[T3hRaven]

Can't tell if serious.

Good I like to keep you guys guessing.

[Inqui]

Hrm, both images are http links, I can see them here. Have rechecked permissions on that web server, all seems fine.

Now it's working. Nice job on the helmet.

[allblackraven]

Now it's working. Nice job on the helmet.

lol, my job was to find it via google

[allblackraven]

The helmet and mascot aren't showing up, but I like the name. Dunno who else will see what you did with it.

 

Need to come up with a mascot. With the name The Rains of Castamere, I figure I should do what the Patriots do at their stadium with their muskets, but with musicians carrying crossbows. Might have to call up this guy and see if he wants a job:

 

 

(how old is that picture? Been ages since the Lions had the Shield)

Just try to avoid any Lions/Hurricanes associations. If you do that, your franchise has a shot at success.

[Inqui]

Just try to avoid any Lions/Hurricanes associations. If you do that, your franchise has a shot at success.

Here's where I announced my team name, logo and first member of the FO. That's two hopeless Lions sides referenced already.

 

Might have to go for the trifecta.

[allblackraven]

Here's where I announced my team name, logo and first member of the FO. That's two hopeless Lions sides referenced already.

 

Might have to go for the trifecta.

Doomed.

[NFLfan123]

The good news is that unlike last year's draft there is actually quality QB prospects so if I miss out on a good NFL starter in the first, I should be able to get my hands on a top QB prospect later. Although Carson Palmer and Alex Smith fell far last year.

[ravensnick]

There are legitimate concerns with him, he's not the top tier prospect a lot of people made him out to be.

Concerns yes, but not falling out of the top five QBs of the draft or even falling out of the Top 10 overall players.

[ravensnick]

1.KDUBB

2.gabefergy

3. Ed_Reed20

4.SAM

5.berad

6.Free Agent

7.arnie_uk

8.stm85

10.Challenge Accepted

10.-Truth-

11.Sizzlebshu

12.PaRAYdise

13.BALTIMOREFLACCO

14.Clutch Ravens

15.Geving

16.Inqui

17.ravefan52

18.Gordo52

19.codizzle

20.RavensNation14

21.BmoreBird22

22.rmw10

23.Mt. Crushmore

24.allblackraven

25.Seahawk

26.ravensnick

27.NFLfan123

28.T3hRaven

29.ravensdan

30.PuRock

31.Ozzsome

32.52520Andrew

Here you go. Did the precautionary 10 times in the random # generator

I guess i didn't get the luck of the draw. Hopeful a decent QB falls. i guess 16 is probably the worst pick of all if we are doing the inverted rounds as well because you are always in the center.

[T3hRaven]

Concerns yes, but not falling out of the top five QBs of the draft or even falling out of the Top 10 overall players.

 

I don't think he's a top 10 player.  He's not particularly gifted physically and I've heard his throwing motion causes him to short arm the ball which is why it loses zip on deep throws and throws to the outside.  His pre-snap ability and his understanding of the position still make him a first round talent though, and even a late first round grade at QB should be a top pick in the draft due to the importance of the position.  I just seem him being more of a complementary QB in the Andy Dalton/Russell Wilson vein.

[gabefergy]

I don't think he's a top 10 player.  He's not particularly gifted physically and I've heard his throwing motion causes him to short arm the ball which is why it loses zip on deep throws and throws to the outside.  His pre-snap ability and his understanding of the position still make him a first round talent though, and even a late first round grade at QB should be a top pick in the draft due to the importance of the position.  I just seem him being more of a complementary QB in the Andy Dalton/Russell Wilson vein.

Those seem like very minor issues that can be fixed with a few tweaks to his mechanics. He has the mental part down and he is very accurate. Those are two of the most important aspects for any QB prospect.

[T3hRaven]

Those seem like very minor issues that can be fixed with a few tweaks to his mechanics. He has the mental part down and he is very accurate. Those are two of the most important aspects for any QB prospect.

 

I really don't know what can and can be coached, or if he'll go to a team with a guy capable of doing that.  I just don't think the criticisms are as made up as some people seem to believe on here.  If it was any other guy besides Cosell saying this stuff I'd probably be with you guys, but it's him and a few other guys I respect.  The stuff about him not being a face of a franchise, that stuff is ridiculous. but there are faults with every one of these QBs this year.  There's no Andrew Luck, I say realizing we're probably going to be saying this for at least a decade since that's how rare of a talent that kid was.

 

I think it'd also be hypocritical for me to come out praising him as the greatest thing in this class when I don't think Zack Martin is a first round talent.  I think he's the OL version of Bridgewater, if that makes sense.

[gabefergy]

I really don't know what can and can be coached, or if he'll go to a team with a guy capable of doing that.  I just don't think the criticisms are as made up as some people seem to believe on here.  If it was any other guy besides Cosell saying this stuff I'd probably be with you guys, but it's him and a few other guys I respect.  The stuff about him not being a face of a franchise, that stuff is ridiculous. but there are faults with every one of these QBs this year.  There's no Andrew Luck, I say realizing we're probably going to be saying this for at least a decade since that's how rare of a talent that kid was.

 

I think it'd also be hypocritical for me to come out praising him as the greatest thing in this class when I don't think Zack Martin is a first round talent.  I think he's the OL version of Bridgewater, if that makes sense.

I don't think he is a perfect prospect, but I do think the flaws are overblown as well. 

[ravensdan]

I don't think he's a top 10 player. He's not particularly gifted physically and I've heard his throwing motion causes him to short arm the ball which is why it loses zip on deep throws and throws to the outside. His pre-snap ability and his understanding of the position still make him a first round talent though, and even a late first round grade at QB should be a top pick in the draft due to the importance of the position. I just seem him being more of a complementary QB in the Andy Dalton/Russell Wilson vein.

Sounds an aweful lot like Tom Brady... Just saying.

The mental aspect is the most important part of quarterbacking. You can't succeed at all without it. The combination of mental and physical is the elite prospect. But physical alone is Jamarcus Russell/ Jeff George.

[ravensnick]

I don't think he's a top 10 player.  He's not particularly gifted physically and I've heard his throwing motion causes him to short arm the ball which is why it loses zip on deep throws and throws to the outside.  His pre-snap ability and his understanding of the position still make him a first round talent though, and even a late first round grade at QB should be a top pick in the draft due to the importance of the position.  I just seem him being more of a complementary QB in the Andy Dalton/Russell Wilson vein.

I see a lot of Brady/Rodgers in him. Maybe not quite as good, but I think if he lands in Houston, Cleveland, or Minnesota, they become play-off contenters. I'd take a guy with a huge football iq and an extremely accurate player over any one with a strong arm and better deep ball. 

[T3hRaven]

I see a lot of Brady/Rodgers in him. Maybe not quite as good, but I think if he lands in Houston, Cleveland, or Minnesota, they become play-off contenters. I'd take a guy with a huge football iq and an extremely accurate player over any one with a strong arm and better deep ball. 

 

He doesn't have the arm of either of those guys, and because he's such a phenomenal player now people tend to forget that Rodgers sat for all those years because his throwing motion and technique was getting broken down and rebuilt.  He had issues coming out of college.

[ravensnick]

He doesn't have the arm of either of those guys, and because he's such a phenomenal player now people tend to forget that Rodgers sat for all those years because his throwing motion and technique was getting broken down and rebuilt.  He had issues coming out of college.

Everyone does. But I think Bridgewater is going to be the only stud QB of this class by the end of this class's rookie deals. I think Bortles and Mettenburger will be about average or just over it, Garropollo will sit a couple years as a backup and start to be on the rise, and Manziel/carr will be busts. 

[gabefergy]

He doesn't have the arm of either of those guys, and because he's such a phenomenal player now people tend to forget that Rodgers sat for all those years because his throwing motion and technique was getting broken down and rebuilt.  He had issues coming out of college.

Brady didn't have a great arm coming out of college either and like you said it took Rodgers time to put it together. 

[T3hRaven]

Everyone does. But I think Bridgewater is going to be the only stud QB of this class by the end of this class's rookie deals. I think Bortles and Mettenburger will be about average or just over it, Garropollo will sit a couple years as a backup and start to be on the rise, and Manziel/carr will be busts. 

 

I don't think Bridgewater is going to be a stud.  He's going to be an Andy Dalton type.  You can win with Dalton, but I don't see him as a transcendent talent because of his physical limitations.  I could be wrong, guys' arms have gotten stronger before in the league, but I just don't see him as that elite sort of guy.  Nothing wrong with that, he'll succeed in the right situation.

 

Mettenberger reminds me too much of Flacco, I still think he's going to be the best.  He's got a huge arm and he's not afraid to throw the ball.  More importantly, he's not afraid to take the hit.  You put him with Bruce Arians or Norv Turner, he's going to be a good QB if the off the field issues don't crop up.

 

Bortles needs to go somewhere with a phenomenal QB coach, he has a lot of developing to do.

 

I'm not going to argue the case for Carr or Manziel though.  I don't think Carr handles bodies around him very well and he has a lot of developing to do as well since his offense in college did not utilize many NFL passing concepts.

[rmw10]

I don't think Bridgewater is going to be a stud.  He's going to be an Andy Dalton type.  You can win with Dalton, but I don't see him as a transcendent talent because of his physical limitations.  I could be wrong, guys' arms have gotten stronger before in the league, but I just don't see him as that elite sort of guy.  Nothing wrong with that, he'll succeed in the right situation.

 

Mettenberger reminds me too much of Flacco, I still think he's going to be the best.  He's got a huge arm and he's not afraid to throw the ball.  More importantly, he's not afraid to take the hit.  You put him with Bruce Arians or Norv Turner, he's going to be a good QB if the off the field issues don't crop up.

 

Bortles needs to go somewhere with a phenomenal QB coach, he has a lot of developing to do.

 

I'm not going to argue the case for Carr or Manziel though.  I don't think Carr handles bodies around him very well and he has a lot of developing to do as well since his offense in college did not utilize many NFL passing concepts.

 

Not that it played into my decision at all in the forum mock, but when I was scouting him, I was checking out some scouting reports to compare to what I saw, and I got curious.  I compared those reports I found to the Nick Foles' scouting reports and they were nearly identical.  Whether he comes on that strong or not, we'll see.  I like him a lot though and just thought that comparison was interesting.

[ravensnick]

I don't think Bridgewater is going to be a stud.  He's going to be an Andy Dalton type.  You can win with Dalton, but I don't see him as a transcendent talent because of his physical limitations.  I could be wrong, guys' arms have gotten stronger before in the league, but I just don't see him as that elite sort of guy.  Nothing wrong with that, he'll succeed in the right situation.

 

Mettenberger reminds me too much of Flacco, I still think he's going to be the best.  He's got a huge arm and he's not afraid to throw the ball.  More importantly, he's not afraid to take the hit.  You put him with Bruce Arians or Norv Turner, he's going to be a good QB if the off the field issues don't crop up.

 

Bortles needs to go somewhere with a phenomenal QB coach, he has a lot of developing to do.

 

I'm not going to argue the case for Carr or Manziel though.  I don't think Carr handles bodies around him very well and he has a lot of developing to do as well since his offense in college did not utilize many NFL passing concepts.

Carr reminds is a true "deer in the headlights" when he is about to get hit. Mettenburger is a discount Flacco, focus on the discount, not the Flacco. Bortles should have stayed in college. I don't see Dalton in Bridgewater. Dalton is the guy that keeps you back when you have an amazing team. Bridgewater might not push you completely over the top, but he will play more than well enough to keep you in contention. i see Bridgewater being like Alex Smith in KC or Tony Romo (minus the choking). 

[T3hRaven]

Not that it played into my decision at all in the forum mock, but when I was scouting him, I was checking out some scouting reports to compare to what I saw, and I got curious.  I compared those reports I found to the Nick Foles' scouting reports and they were nearly identical.  Whether he comes on that strong or not, we'll see.  I like him a lot though and just thought that comparison was interesting.

 

That's not a comparison I would make, but I wasn't a Foles fan coming out.  I think the way that offense works protects him.

[rmw10]

That's not a comparison I would make, but I wasn't a Foles fan coming out.  I think the way that offense works protects him.

 

It was just an interesting comparison.  Big arm, not afraid to let it fly.  Statue in the pocket.

 

However, I think Mettenberger is coming out with a better grasp on a pro offense for sure.  He's a guy that can make all of the throws.  He definitely needs some work but I actually love him as a prospect.  If he hadn't got hurt, I think he'd be in the 1st round conversation.

[ravensnick]

It was just an interesting comparison.  Big arm, not afraid to let it fly.  Statue in the pocket.

 

However, I think Mettenberger is coming out with a better grasp on a pro offense for sure.  He's a guy that can make all of the throws.  He definitely needs some work but I actually love him as a prospect.  If he hadn't got hurt, I think he'd be in the 1st round conversation.

He'd probably be the second QB of the board (after Bridgewater) if he didn't get hurt. 

[SeaHawk]

I think the best QB in this draft class is Stephen Morris from Miami.

[gabefergy]

I don't think Bridgewater is going to be a stud.  He's going to be an Andy Dalton type.  You can win with Dalton, but I don't see him as a transcendent talent because of his physical limitations.  I could be wrong, guys' arms have gotten stronger before in the league, but I just don't see him as that elite sort of guy.  Nothing wrong with that, he'll succeed in the right situation.

 

Mettenberger reminds me too much of Flacco, I still think he's going to be the best.  He's got a huge arm and he's not afraid to throw the ball.  More importantly, he's not afraid to take the hit.  You put him with Bruce Arians or Norv Turner, he's going to be a good QB if the off the field issues don't crop up.

 

Bortles needs to go somewhere with a phenomenal QB coach, he has a lot of developing to do.

 

I'm not going to argue the case for Carr or Manziel though.  I don't think Carr handles bodies around him very well and he has a lot of developing to do as well since his offense in college did not utilize many NFL passing concepts.

Bridgewater has similarities to Dalton, but I think he is more accurate, cerebral, and more mobile. Bridgewater's ability to move and make accurate throws on the move is underrated. He also handles pressure far better than Dalton.

 

My opnion of Mettenberger dropped off a lot after watching a lot of LSU games. He is erratic with his ball placement. Beckham and Landry bailed him out time and time again, and he missed them (especially Beckham) a lot. He also isn't nearly the athlete that Flacco is. His arm is nice and he does stand strong in the pocket, but with that comes a lot of questionable decision making. I wouldn't mind taking him in the 3rd round or so, but he will need a lot of work.

 

Carr is an even bigger enigma than Manziel to me. He is a great athlete with a huge arm, but his accuracy is really poor and like you said he does not handle pressure well. I think he is a first round talent, but he has some Gabbert in him. The difference is he is actually able to make plays with his feet.

[T3hRaven]

Bridgewater has similarities to Dalton, but I think he is more accurate, cerebral, and more mobile. Bridgewater's ability to move and make accurate throws on the move is underrated. He also handles pressure far better than Dalton.

 

My opnion of Mettenberger dropped off a lot after watching a lot of LSU games. He is erratic with his ball placement. Beckham and Landry bailed him out time and time again, and he missed them (especially Beckham) a lot. He also isn't nearly the athlete that Flacco is. His arm is nice and he does stand strong in the pocket, but with that comes a lot of questionable decision making. I wouldn't mind taking him in the 3rd round or so, but he will need a lot of work.

 

Carr is an even bigger enigma than Manziel to me. He is a great athlete with a huge arm, but his accuracy is really poor and like you said he does not handle pressure well. I think he is a first round talent, but he has some Gabbert in him. The difference is he is actually able to make plays with his feet.

 

I don't disagree on Bridgewater, I should have said I think he's somewhere between Andy Dalton and Russell Wilson, assuming people view certain QBs and the position like I do.  I think his physical limitations will keep him out of the 'elite' group, but he can definitely be a starting caliber QB.  Of course the problem with saying that is I think Manning has pretty crappy physical attributes and throws a really ugly ball, even when he was younger, but his understanding of the game is so far above pretty much every other QB that he's still deadly.

 

Can't disagree with your assessment, he can get a little spotty at times on his ball placement, but on him I think the positive attributes outweigh the negative ones on the field.  But I like big strong armed QBs, I think he's going to give you a lot to work with, but there's still plenty of refining to do.  And I think his familiarity in a pro style system helps him out.  I really think the Vikings need to get him with their second pick, wherever it winds up being, because they know he knows a lot about what Norv wants to do.

 

The Gabbert parallel is interesting.  I thought his arm was a bit overrated, and I'm not sure Carr is as bad on third down.  Gabbert completely crumbled under pressure, for all Carr's issues I don't think he's that bad.  But I see what you're saying.

[ravensnick]

I think the best QB in this draft class is Stephen Morris from Miami.

Morris probably goes undrafted, so no. 

[Mt. Crushmore]

So, when are we thinking of starting the draft?  Sunday or Monday?