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The offseason- Has it been too much of a patch up job?


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#1 Sami84

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:02 AM

Don't get me wrong fellas, some of the new guys are going to help but lets not avoid the elephant in the room here. Age. We have suddenly gotten pretty old. We are not deep in youth on the D-line front and we have other things to address in the draft. Brandon Williams remains a question mark as does KLM ( hasnt played a snap) Canty was so-so last year and is older, Ngata was terrible despite the optimisim of him going back to 2010 ngata at this time last year. Suggs is def on the tail end of his career and dumervil isnt a spring chicken.

 

We have 2 Tight ends of immense football IQ but Pitta is coming off an injury and is already 29. Daniels is 32.

 

Steve Smith was one of the best if not the best at a certain point in time but he is 35. Torrey is a solid number 2. Do we Draft here as we have no one to really BUILD around as far as the recvieng core goes as of right now

 

Our O line has 1 improvement and he is hardly a top 10 Center.

 

We have no FS to speak of too.

 

Here is my point. Is our FO trying to be too clever for its own good with past their prime players coming in giving us the NAME factor over the ability factor?

 

Honestly its the team that makes flacco and not the other way round. So with that being said, I must be honest here.

 

We lack talent and our best players on this roster are either at the tail end of their primes or past it.

 

We should have tried for BYRD. His deal with the saints was a good one and perhaps with such a loaded WR draft we could have done without steve smith.

 

My problem with the ravens is we dont have players who are among the best in the league right NOW. We have a bunch of has beens who we hope can cumilativly make us better.

 

With that we need more than what the draft can offer us.

We need a FS DE RT RB OLB TE WR

 

We seem to be counting on our older receiving core to carry us this year so I feel we must draft FS DE and RT. It's a shame because I would love ODB here and he will def be available to us I feel at 17.

 

Sometimes its good to get 1-2 very good FA's in their primes rather then a bunch of older players to fill in positions.

 

 


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#2 flynismo

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:38 AM

You said:

 

Here is my point. Is our FO trying to be too clever for its own good with past their prime players coming in giving us the NAME factor over the ability factor?

 

I think you are looking at it completely wrong. This is where you and the FO differ in opinions --- the team does not make Flacco, nor can any one player (Flacco) make the entire team if the supporting cast is not adequate. That is what the FO believes. They think that all they need to do is provide Flacco with adequate talent and he can carry the team; at least the offense. Hence, all the "value" additions. A 35 year old S. Smith may not rack up 1400 yards and double digit TDs, but they are betting that he can still fill a very valuable role on the team; and add something we did not have last year. They are betting that Daniels still has another productive year or two left; or at the very least, won't kill us and provide a significant upgrade over Dickson.

A lot of people may not like that approach; but it is what has made us so successful ever since Flacco got here. We just give him some decent targets and a solid defense, and we see the results.

 

Unfortunately, that approach can backfire big time, as we saw last year, when those "value" players don't produce or get hurt; so I understand the skepticism to an extent. But really, so far, can't argue with the overall results


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#3 ravensnick

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

Don't get me wrong fellas, some of the new guys are going to help but lets not avoid the elephant in the room here. Age. We have suddenly gotten pretty old. We are not deep in youth on the D-line front and we have other things to address in the draft. Brandon Williams remains a question mark as does KLM ( hasnt played a snap) Canty was so-so last year and is older, Ngata was terrible despite the optimisim of him going back to 2010 ngata at this time last year. Suggs is def on the tail end of his career and dumervil isnt a spring chicken.

 

We have 2 Tight ends of immense football IQ but Pitta is coming off an injury and is already 29. Daniels is 32.

 

Steve Smith was one of the best if not the best at a certain point in time but he is 35. Torrey is a solid number 2. Do we Draft here as we have no one to really BUILD around as far as the recvieng core goes as of right now

 

Our O line has 1 improvement and he is hardly a top 10 Center.

 

We have no FS to speak of too.

 

Here is my point. Is our FO trying to be too clever for its own good with past their prime players coming in giving us the NAME factor over the ability factor?

 

Honestly its the team that makes flacco and not the other way round. So with that being said, I must be honest here.

 

We lack talent and our best players on this roster are either at the tail end of their primes or past it.

 

We should have tried for BYRD. His deal with the saints was a good one and perhaps with such a loaded WR draft we could have done without steve smith.

 

My problem with the ravens is we dont have players who are among the best in the league right NOW. We have a bunch of has beens who we hope can cumilativly make us better.

 

With that we need more than what the draft can offer us.

We need a FS DE RT RB OLB TE WR

 

We seem to be counting on our older receiving core to carry us this year so I feel we must draft FS DE and RT. It's a shame because I would love ODB here and he will def be available to us I feel at 17.

 

Sometimes its good to get 1-2 very good FA's in their primes rather then a bunch of older players to fill in positions.

There is a lot here and a lot I disagree with. FAs are overrated. One of the huge reason teams like the Patriots or Ravens are so successful is the development of in-house talent. No reason to sink a huge pay check into a veteran from another team when you can get similar players in house. I get you like Byrd but just look at his paycheck. No way Ozzie gives that to him. Don't forget comp picks as well. 

 

To clarify our draft needs are: Starting FS. Then Depth at DE, RT,  RB, OLB, TE, and WR. No reason why we can't do that with 8 draft selections. 

 

How do we have an older receiving core? We have an extremely young receiving core. Besides Steve Smith (a potential future HOFer), Torrey isn't even played out his rookie contract, Marlon and Mellette are entering there soph season, Jacoby is younger than 30. Sure Pitta and Daniels are older, but Pitta was turning into a Pro Bowl TE before his injury and Daniels already was one as recent as 2012 (and he was on pace for over 800 yds and 10 tds before his injury last year).

 

We do have options at FS. Stewart could play for a little bit, Omar Brown, Jeromy Miles. no great options, but options.

 

Of course the team makes Flacco. No QB can succeed on a team devoid of talent. Its a TEAM sport not an individual one. Even Brady and Peyton need great teams around them to succeed. Big Ben didn't win the steeler his first super bowl, in fact, he didn't even pass for over 200 yds or for a TD in against the Seahawks.

 

Ngata was injury plagued, not terrible last year. Ngata is an amazing player went on the field, but injured a lot. 

 

Flacco, Monroe, Jacoby at KR/PR, Jimmy Smith, Webb, Tucker ,and Yanda are top of the league player right now at there position. 

 

Don't mistake Steve Smith deal for a huge commitment. It is mostly liekly a one to two year deal as a stop gate between now and when we can get another younger guy playing #1/#2 next to Torrey. 

 

We roll by BPA for draft, I think ODB is still one of our top choices at 17. ANd we really don't need a DE early. We got a great player in Deangelo Tyson, and two great older guys in Canty and Ngata. They will start with KLM and Brandon Williams getting in via rotational. Cody for backup. More than good d-line. 

 

I think Wagner will be better than any rookie at RT except for Robinson, Matthews, Lewan, Moses, and maybe Juwan James. I think Wagner will start so OT depth is more important than a starting RT.

 

The point of getting older players isn't for name recognition. Its for value. Steve Smith has a hell of a lot cheaper than Emmanuel Sanders or Eric Decker and will probably put up similar numbers. Daniels should do very well as well.  And don't forget, getting Monroe is HUGE for the Ravens, he's a top 10 LT in his prime.

 

I know its seems that we didn't make the splash some would have liked us to make, but good team shouldn't need a great FA. They should live off of in house talent. The Raider got by far the most guys in FA, but I guarantee they stay in the basement of the AFC West. The Right Player for the Right Price is Ozzie's Motto and it works almost perfectly. 


Edited by ravensnick, 24 April 2014 - 10:45 AM.

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#4 Alaska Alaska!

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:52 AM

If both Marlon Brown and Juice become beasts this season, AND if we can get one more play making WR, then I feel very confident about our receiving core.  

 

If the coaches can get the OL on point, then we'd have one of the youngest OLines in the league. Offensive wise, we aren't that far away! 


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#5 ravensnick

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:00 AM

If both Marlon Brown and Juice become beasts this season, AND if we can get one more play making WR, then I feel very confident about our receiving core.  

 

If the coaches can get the OL on point, then we'd have one of the youngest OLines in the league. Offensive wise, we aren't that far away! 

We can easily get another play maker at WR. Such a deep WR draft. Jarvis Landry has potential 1st round type talent, but he could probably be had in the early 3rd. I foresee Marlon improving. 


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#6 Dr. Kelley

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:06 AM

Ha we got rid of boldin to "get younger" but we havent brought in a reciever under 30 since. But its still funny how the lemmings on here justify it.
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#7 Sami84

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:11 AM

Taylor Lewan and Jimmy ward would be the best 2 possible scenarios for us in round 1 and 2. 


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#8 ravensnick

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:14 AM

Taylor Lewan and Jimmy ward would be the best 2 possible scenarios for us in round 1 and 2. 

Ward yes, Lewan debatable, but probably. 


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#9 ravensnick

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:14 AM

Ha we got rid of boldin to "get younger" but we havent brought in a reciever under 30 since. But its still funny how the lemmings on here justify it.

No reason to justify get rid of Boldin except to free up cap. It really backfired.


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#10 Moderator 3

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:51 AM

I think it's too soon to make judgements. With almost 5 months until the roster is "complete", things could change a lot. You know Ozzie scours the waiver wire through August and September to find better players than what we already have.
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#11 izvoodoo

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:56 AM

The roster isn't nearly complete, but we still have the draft and free agency.  And we should have extended Boldin, in hindsight, but we'd only have been about the same, since we needed so much cap to fix the defense.  

 

Right tackles aren't the most difficult position to find, and it's good to spread talent out.

 

And Byrd was an absolute pipe dream.


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#12 Alaska Alaska!

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:09 PM

The roster isn't nearly complete, but we still have the draft and free agency.  And we should have extended Boldin, in hindsight

I get what you're saying, I really do.  But I hope that next offseason will finally be the nail in the coffin where we can stop regretting the fact that Boldin is no longer with the Ravens. 


Edited by Alaska Alaska!, 24 April 2014 - 12:09 PM.

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#13 Tenacious Faulker

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

Has the off season been too much of a patch up job?  

 

In a word...No.

 

Most off seasons teams spend their time "patching" holes left by free agency.  That's a given.  When you play up against the cap every season and draft/cultivate great players like the Ravens do, you're going to lose a fair amount of them each year.  

 

This off season they aggressively filled in vacancies and built depth.  They still have room, and more importantly time, to round out the roster in the draft, the next round of free agency and through to the end of preseason.

 

No team at this point has a "complete" roster and if the season started today I think the Ravens are in the play-offs.   


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#14 JO_75

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

Taylor Lewan and Jimmy ward would be the best 2 possible scenarios for us in round 1 and 2. 

 

Don't expect Lewan to be there, buzz is building that the Raiders like Lewan more than the other OTs. There is a high chance of Lewan going to the Raiders 5th overall.

 

I would refute your apart about how we got "older". Our average age for the entire offense(taking in the every position) is 29. Steve Smith and Owen Daniels are the only two players on our offense that are above the age of 30. Our entire offensive line is under the age of 30, with Yanda being the oldest at 29.

 

Our defense we have guys that are in their 30's like Daryl, Canty and Suggs but as always Ozzie has found the right combination of youth and experience which is what our team has. Tucker is only 24, and we know Kickers can play into their 40's. Koch is a question mark not just because he is 31 but well age has caught up to him.

 

Also you talk about patch work? Look at the teams that overpay. Take someone like Cleveland, they had a long term 10+ year solution at Safety in Ward. What they do? Let him go for some 2-3 year fixture in Whitner. Granted Jackson was getting older but letting him go to sign 32 year old Karlos Dansby, again only a 2-3 year fixture. That's patch work. 


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#15 BSHU_Miami

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 01:16 PM

I think it's too soon to make judgements. With almost 5 months until the roster is "complete", things could change a lot. You know Ozzie scours the waiver wire through August and September to find better players than what we already have.

thats what I'm thinking. It's not even May yet. The season doesn't start Til September, and it's not like Ozzie wouldn't go to the very last day to sign a FA if it'll improve the team. We have a LOOOOOONG way to go.
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#16 izvoodoo

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

thats what I'm thinking. It's not even May yet. The season doesn't start Til September, and it's not like Ozzie wouldn't go to the very last day to sign a FA if it'll improve the team. We have a LOOOOOONG way to go.

Yeah, the quality of this board has gone with the playoff appearance.  It's just the emotion from the offensive ineptitude.  


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#17 Inqui

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:16 PM

Teams tend to get younger in the draft, so I think it's best to wait until the 53-man roster gets named.

 

WR is an absolute patch-up job imo, but I think that was by design. I still think we take a WR1/high WR2, but Steve Smith lets us train them up for a year or two. It's a position that takes a two or three seasons for a guy to adjust to in the pros, so that patch-up makes the process smoother. TE's a similar story.

 

The OL will have KO back, so that essentially should be thought of as a new signing. We could use depth (although I think Gino could be alright as a backup G) but that isn't anything desperate. Remember we also got rid of an OL coach, and part of the problem was two, often conflicting, voices telling our guys how to do their thing.

 

FS is a problem, and it's inconvenient to need one this year, but considering Ozzie didn't go hard after any I think it's fair to say he has something in mind. The thing with big-name FAs is that there's usually a reason their old team didn't want to pay the kind of money they ask for. It almost always leads to poor value in the longer term - as the Dolphins are going to find in a year or two when Jeff Fireland's contracts start to get big.

 

A team that makes headlines in March doesn't tend to make them the next January.


Edited by Inqui, 24 April 2014 - 05:17 PM.

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#18 Clayton Bigsby

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:46 PM

I honestly just see it as the FO trying to patch up as many holes as we can before the draft so that we can stay true to our BPA method of drafting.


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#19 Ravenslifer

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:15 PM

Don't get me wrong fellas, some of the new guys are going to help but lets not avoid the elephant in the room here. Age. We have suddenly gotten pretty old. We are not deep in youth on the D-line front and we have other things to address in the draft. Brandon Williams remains a question mark as does KLM ( hasnt played a snap) Canty was so-so last year and is older, Ngata was terrible despite the optimisim of him going back to 2010 ngata at this time last year. Suggs is def on the tail end of his career and dumervil isnt a spring chicken.

 

 

We've always tried to go out there and sign vets to fill short holes so we can stick to drafting BPA and not be forced into anything e.g. when we HAD to take Boller because we literally had nobody at the position.  By taking Smith and Daniels, two guys who can start next year, we can afford to take a risk on a guy like Kelvin Benjamin now - before, we had no starting quality receiver, both JJ and Brown are number 3 receivers at best where they are now.  Taking a raw receiver wouldn't make sense then.  Steve was playing number 1 in Carolina his entire career, and now he should have no problem slipping into a number 2 roll behind Torrey.  This gives us the ability to take a Benjamin, a Lattimer, a Mike Evans or a Martavius Bryant - guys with upside who just shouldn't be starting their rookie seasons.  That's something else we like to do - have a guy working behind the starter who's ready to take over when he goes.  

 

The FS, receiver, and o-line can all be addressed via the draft or the next wave of roster cuts.  There's still 4 months before the start of the season.


Edited by Ravenslifer, 24 April 2014 - 09:30 PM.

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#20 display name

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

It's hard to say that we'll be getting too old before the draft.


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