hn68wb4

Does our current defensive personnel fit better in a 4-3 rather than our 3-4?

28 posts in this topic

we have sizzle and doom who are best rushing the passer as 4-3 DEs are tasked with doing the majority of plays. Having an extra down lineman would take pressure off Ngata who has been really injury prone the last couple of years and hasnt been as effective as he should be. It would allow Arthur Brown to get more playing time. We have drafted a ton of 4-3 DEs and converted them to OLBs, i.e Parnell McPhee.

 

Daryl Smith is the prototypical Sam LB. Making the switch to a 4-3 would allow Smith to move over to Sam and Brown can play Will LB. This could open us up to drafting an ILB like Mosley to play Mike.

 

I understand that we do run more of a Hybrid Scheme but since 2001 there has been an emphasis on 3-4, I'm not saying we should outright run a 4-3 every down - we can keep the hybrid scheme but instead have an emphasis on 4-3. 

Edited by hn68wb4
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We lack the LB depth to make it happen, although I'd be very interested in the move.

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I agree, we would need more LB depth to pull it off. We do use 4 linemen on our nickel situations if I am not mistaken however

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We lack the LB depth to make it happen, although I'd be very interested in the move.

yeah, i agree, to pull it off we would need to take on more LB, but i do think Bynes is well suited to play Mike LB since he is great against the run and McClellan would be pretty good as backup Sam. But we still don't have very many LBs built for the 4-3. It sort of becomes a question of: would you rather have a ton of depth at 3-4 LB or a ton of depth at 4-3 DE

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No, it doesn't. Suggs has been much better as an outside linebacker than he was as a pure defensive end. Also, Doom is mainly just a pass rusher, so we'd need a DE to share time with him. Also, Brown is a natural inside linebacker. Even if the Ravens switched, Brown would be the MLB and Upshaw would be the OLB. Personally, I prefer the focus on the 3-4 defense.

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No, it doesn't. Suggs has been much better as an outside linebacker than he was as a pure defensive end. Also, Doom is mainly just a pass rusher, so we'd need a DE to share time with him. Also, Brown is a natural inside linebacker. Even if the Ravens switched, Brown would be the MLB and Upshaw would be the OLB. Personally, I prefer the focus on the 3-4 defense.

4-3 DEs mainly rush the passer, Doom flourished in Denver in a 4-3. Suggs plays best when he rushes the passer and plays great with his hand in the dirt. Brown is naturally best at coverage, not run stuffing, Will LB are mostly coverage LBs, Will LB suits his skill sets better than ILB. in a 4-3 Upshaw would without a doubt play DE like he did at Alabama.

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The idea is not bad but put Upshaw in the Sam and leave Smith in the middle. Jax played a 4-3 Def

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Yes, I think it does, other than our shoddy LB depth.

 

However, I hate Upshaw as a 4-3 OLB. Not quick enough.

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4-3 DEs mainly rush the passer, Doom flourished in Denver in a 4-3. Suggs plays best when he rushes the passer and plays great with his hand in the dirt. Brown is naturally best at coverage, not run stuffing, Will LB are mostly coverage LBs, Will LB suits his skill sets better than ILB. in a 4-3 Upshaw would without a doubt play DE like he did at Alabama.

But Brown flourished as a middle linebacker and did pretty well against the run in college. He's better at it than people give him credit. And with his speed, he'll be able to roam around and make plays on both sides of the defense, like Lewis did.

 

As for Suggs, he has been good at defending short passes and stopping the run from his linebacker position. Also, OLB in a 3-4 system gives an added advantage of often play farther out from the center than a tradition 4-3 end, which gives them a better chance of getting around the tackle.

 

And it gives the bonus of having two potential blitzers in the middle that the O-line has to account for, making it harder to offenses to know where the blitz will come from.

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Upshaw is such a tweener lol idk where he would fit exactly, but we would do very well in the 4-3. I just don't know where we'd go with the ILB

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Yes, I think it does, other than our shoddy LB depth.

 

However, I hate Upshaw as a 4-3 OLB. Not quick enough.

me too, i like him much better as a 4-3 DE as I'm pretty sure he was in college

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The idea is not bad but put Upshaw in the Sam and leave Smith in the middle. Jax played a 4-3 Def

 yeah Jax played a 4-3 and Smith played both Mike and Sam in it, but he is a prototypical Sam backer where his coverage skills can be utilized against TEs, at his age it is best to put him in his best natural position, which seems to be the Sam

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It doesn't even matter anymore.  Over 50% of the game is played in the nickel nowadays, in which alignment Suggs and Dumervil are lined up as DEs.  

The key thing with the 43, and I can't stress this enough, is you need an interior guy who can wreck Gs.  We let our only interior guy who could do that go in Art Jones.

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4-3 DEs mainly rush the passer, Doom flourished in Denver in a 4-3. Suggs plays best when he rushes the passer and plays great with his hand in the dirt. Brown is naturally best at coverage, not run stuffing, Will LB are mostly coverage LBs, Will LB suits his skill sets better than ILB. in a 4-3 Upshaw would without a doubt play DE like he did at Alabama.

 

"Flourished" isn't the correct word.  Yes he played well, but his best years were playing in the 3-4

 

 

It doesn't even matter anymore.  Over 50% of the game is played in the nickel nowadays, in which alignment Suggs and Dumervil are lined up as DEs.  

The key thing with the 43, and I can't stress this enough, is you need an interior guy who can wreck Gs.  We let our only interior guy who could do that go in Art Jones.

 

 

Agreed.  In fact most of our players fit better in the 3-4 than the 4-3.  We brought most of these guys in to play the 3-4.  Making the switch to the 4-3 would take more time than we have and i's not like our defense is bad.

 

If the D falls off then yes maybe a scheme change should be discussed.  As of now, we should keep it.  Maybe revisit when Flacco retires.

Edited by dhstandard
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We were awful when we ran the 4-3 in 2008 I believe. Around that time. We have different personnel now, but it's not better suited for the 4-3. We lack athletic outside linebackers with speed that can cover. Daryl is a perfect fit for the 4-3, at either LB position (MLB/OLB). But Suggs is not, he's too bulky and just a natural pass rusher. He'd be an elite 4-3 DE if that's his full time position. Ngata would do great as a 4-3 DT. Cody / Brandon could line up next to him in the middle, Upshaw maybe at the other DE position. The only problem like I said and like everyone else mentioned, we don't have the linebackers and that's almost as important as having the D-Line personnel to pull off the 3-4. Without at least an elite NT and at least one stout DE you can't pull off the 3-4 either. At this point the hybrid 3-4 is what fits us best and will get us the most wins I think.

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... and i's not like our defense is bad.

 

If the D falls off then yes maybe a scheme change should be discussed....

I think this is key. Don't change things just for changes sake, or because you think 1-2 players might flourish under a new system. The defense was a huge positive last year. They went entire games without allowing a touchdown, and early on, before people got banged up, were racking up a lot of sacks. Only a fool would totally scrap a plan that working and try to switch to something that's going to require a lot of new players and retooling, and coaching, only to hope for results as good as we slready have. You fix what's broke. The defense wasn't broke. The offensive line sure was. It's really a no brainer that you replace the 3 guys on defense that we lost do a couple of upgrades but otherwise go with a very similar look again this year because it worked. The teams that make switches from 3-4 to 4-3 and vice versa do so because they weren't effective. Or lost the personnel to make one system work. But if you were already pretty effective you don't mess with it. Unless you can tell me that the loss of Jones, Graham, Iggy, and J McLain and the bringing in of Stewart and Rolando to cmp necessitates a complete overhaul, you don't mess with it.

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Pernell McPhee, hes been in the shadows. Where would he fit into the scheme?

DE.

And no, our Defensive tackles aren't really 4-3 guys.  They're very much NT, 5 technique.

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Pernell McPhee, hes been in the shadows. Where would he fit into the scheme?

hes a 4-3 DE that we converted to an OLB after his rookie season, his natural position is 4-3 DE

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DE.

And no, our Defensive tackles aren't really 4-3 guys.  They're very much NT, 5 technique.

 

I'm not so sure anymore. Canty's best years were in the 4-3. Tyson is more of a one gap guy. Williams is best at blowing up one gap and penetrating. McPhee is the perfect 4-3 DT or even a DE. The only true 3-4 only player we have is Cody. 

Edited by The Raven
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I'm not so sure anymore. Canty's best years were in the 4-3. Tyson is more of a one gap guy. Williams is best at blowing up one gap and penetrating. McPhee is the perfect 4-3 DT or even a DE. The only true 3-4 only player we have is Cody. 

You know that's a good point.  But it's not going to happen.  Besides we hardly play a true 3-4.  We use a lot of 4-3 concepts in it.

 

The main problem is linebacker depth.  Also coaching staff is largely 3-4 guys.

Edited by izvoodoo
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You know that's a good point.  But it's not going to happen.  Besides we hardly play a true 3-4.  We use a lot of 4-3 concepts in it.

 

The main problem is linebacker depth.  Also coaching staff is largely 3-4 guys.

 

I think we've started a lot of single gap 3-4 looks, which is part of those 4-3 concepts. I'm not sure, but our defensive linemen shoot gaps and penetrate a lot more than teams in traditional 3-4 defenses. I like the single gap 3-4 a lot, especially with our guys.

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It all depends on what we get from Rolando McClain. If he can be 70% of what e was projected to be in te draft he will be absolutely perfect MLB for the Jim Johnson 43. Smith is perfect for SLB in a 43 and brown can play wlb. Suggs and Doom would be good De because they have experience in coverage. Upshaw can rotate in at DE. All we would need is depth at 3 tech to rush the passer. Williams probably could play 1 tech because he got a lot of sacks in college. Ngata and William would rotate there

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