Is Flacco FINALLY gaining respect from the media? This is weird

[jimjim5]

Man I really hate the media. Why can't they see what the Ravens family has seen from Day !?

I seriously fell in love with Joe when he scrambled for 38 yards and scored against the Bengals in his first game.

 

The Ravens would need to put up a lot of yards and points, then the Media will start the jock riding.

[hawkprey]

...... thats what you're doing. You're crazy if you think those guys are better than Flacco right now.

 

Flacco's game was totally hampered by an inept offensive scheme. But somehow, Flacco made it work. I will go so far as to say that I think MOST of the starting QB's in the league would fail running Cam Cameron's offense in 201X. A lot of these good QB are a product of good offensive schemes that create mismatches and holes in zones so huge a JV QB could hit the open man. Why do you think Flacco's throws look so unbelievable, but other QB's completions look so pedestrian and intermediate. Flacco's throw's have to be amazing because they are often low percentage throws. Crazy thing is, he nails them. And he is even better once he gets let loose to make something happen. His clutch-ness is no coincidence. 

 

Out of that list, Wilson impresses me the most, then Luck though.

I don't think people really understand the scope of which offensive style and surrounding talent effect passer rating or on-field performance. There are a lot of throws in this league that look great because the receiver fought for the ball, but could've easily been called "bone-headed" interceptions had it not played out that way. Joe has been on the receiving (okay, throwing) end of both of those in his career, like every QB, but this year was far more the latter. 

 

I know it's not a complete argument, but you could look at the ratings of the backup QBs. Tavaris Jackson led the league in regular season and pre-season passer rating (over 140). Tyrod Taylor ended the year with a passer rating of 0. It's a small sample size, but for two similar QBs that's incredibly different.

[Guest RBates]

how can anyone say foles after one year is better than anyone. Foles can't be placed against vets, its too early. Otherwise you'd have to rank him as the best qb in the league based on that seasob.

Rg3 is far to injury prone to even break my top 15 let alone 10. Kap is meh, relies to much on his feet, don't think he can carry you if you stop him running.

Arnie you can't stop him from running.  If you do, you are inviting him to hit the short passes all day long. This is the dilemma you face when you are dealing with a scrambling QB that can throw the football. Flacco himself has had only one solid season as well, and it doesn't even compare to Foles. 

[Guest RBates]

RB you got to be kidding man!  No way is RG3 (and I like him) or Kaep better than Flacco man!  Luck and Wilson look good though.

 

#Mili

Rg3 stats last year mirror Flacco's (benched with four games left) and he was benched with no O-line just like Flacco.  Luck, Wison and Kap are all better than Flacco.  Cam is better than all of them .  So you have Tom, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Foles, Rivers, Luck, Kap, Wilson, Cam Big Ben. THEN +Rg3, Ryan and Flacco you can put them in any order you like 

[flynismo]

Rg3 stats last year mirror Flacco's (benched with four games left) and he was benched with no O-line just like Flacco. Luck, Wison and Kap are all better than Flacco. Cam is better than all of them . So you have Tom, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Foles, Rivers, Luck, Kap, Wilson, Cam Big Ben. THEN +Rg3, Ryan and Flacco you can put them in any order you like

you cannot seriously think Wilson, Luck, Kap and Newton are better than Ryan and Flacco. One of them might surpass those two a couple years down the road......maybe. And of those guys, I think Luck is the only one who has a chance to do it.

[PeRK82]

All those guys are better than Flacco.  Flacco is tenth in the league at best. 

Are you kidding me,  

 

LUCK, RG3...???? Really?

 

Only reason RG3 had that great first yr was because all he did was throw jump balls and let his WR get them. Lets not forget the 1000 check downs that resulted in 20 plus yds. I watched atleast 9 Redskin games that yr and i was not impress at all.

 

He is  or shall i say  WAS elusive.  We will know if he still is this yr. 

 

And Luck, all i can say is. Luck does not impress me at ALL. He is a tough QB but Joe is tougher , you have to be with the way our O Line has been since forever.

[flynismo]

Are you kidding me,  

 

LUCK, RG3...???? Really?

 

Only reason RG3 had that great first yr was because all he did was throw jump balls and let his WR get them. Lets not forget the 1000 check downs that resulted in 20 plus yds. I watched atleast 9 Redskin games that yr and i was not impress at all.

 

He is  or shall i say  WAS elusive.  We will know if he still is this yr. 

 

And Luck, all i can say is. Luck does not impress me at ALL. He is a tough QB but Joe is tougher , you have to be with the way our O Line has been since forever.

I like Luck as much as the next guy -- maybe even moreso, because I like his offbeat but kind personality, but he has a heck of a lot to prove before he belongs in the same category as guys who have accomplished more and already proven themselves to be impact players in the league. You can say the same thing for Luck's rookie year as you did RG3. Difference between those two is that even though Luck may have had a lot of bad plays, he almost always came through when Indy needed a big play or when the game was on the line. Last year he made some good progress as a player, but he still clearly has a lot to learn about the game as well....if and when he puts it all together, he will be worthy of the hype -- he has what it takes to be a great QB. Until he actually goes out there and does it, and does it for a little while, he's at the bottom of my Top 10 lists of QBs. In my opinion though, he is clearly superior to RG3, Wilson, Cam and Kap as a player.

[ravensdfan]

Rg3 stats last year mirror Flacco's (benched with four games left) and he was benched with no O-line just like Flacco.  Luck, Wison and Kap are all better than Flacco.  Cam is better than all of them .  So you have Tom, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Foles, Rivers, Luck, Kap, Wilson, Cam Big Ben. THEN +Rg3, Ryan and Flacco you can put them in any order you like 

 

My reaction to that entire statement:

 

[Militant X 1]

Rg3 stats last year mirror Flacco's (benched with four games left) and he was benched with no O-line just like Flacco.  Luck, Wison and Kap are all better than Flacco.  Cam is better than all of them .  So you have Tom, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Foles, Rivers, Luck, Kap, Wilson, Cam Big Ben. THEN +Rg3, Ryan and Flacco you can put them in any order you like 

 

I like RG3, Cam, Luck, Wilson and Kap RB.  Tom, Peyton, Drew, Aaron and Philip are beasts to me!  And, I've always loved Big Ben's style!  But Ryan?  Over Flacco?  C'mon brah!  Smh!

 

#Mili

[PolishRifle]

RB you got to be kidding man!  No way is RG3 (and I like him) or Kaep better than Flacco man!  Luck and Wilson look good though.

 

#Mili

 

I give you Luck. He might be on his way to surpassing Joe. I can't believe what he's doing on a very mediocre team. I'm still sceptic about Wilson, though. The sample size is just too small and his team was way too good (especially last year). The point of a great defense and running game carrying the team was brought up against Flacco (something Joe dispelled during his Sb run, imho), I think it's only fair to bring it up against Wilson also (eventhough few analysts do). 

[Inqui]

I give you Luck. He might be on his way to surpassing Joe. I can't believe what he's doing on a very mediocre team. I'm still sceptic about Wilson, though. The sample size is just too small and his team was way too good (especially last year). The point of a great defense and running game carrying the team was brought up against Flacco (something Joe dispelled during his Sb run, imho), I think it's only fair to bring it up against Wilson also (eventhough few analysts do). 

Yeah it's weird. Flacco gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets bashed for it (even when he wins the SB with the defence on a huge down year). Wilson gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets a consideration for MVP.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah it's weird. Flacco gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets bashed for it (even when he wins the SB with the defence on a huge down year). Wilson gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets a consideration for MVP.

I'll give it that Wilson is a very accurate passer that won't make many mistakes, but I don't think he has nearly the natural arm talent or will take your offense to the next level

[PolishRifle]

I'll give it that Wilson is a very accurate passer that won't make many mistakes, but I don't think he has nearly the natural arm talent or will take your offense to the next level

 

It's still early in his carreer. He seems a bit "bland", but there is something to be said for playing solid mistake free football, the way he did in the SB. Just let Peyton kill his own team with his usual playoff meltdowns.

Still, that defense won't last forever (thx FA ) and at some point he might be in for a big contract, suddenly he'll be forced to make some miracles happen . We have to wait and see, if he can provide that spark to his offense.

[BmoreBird22]

It's still early in his carreer. He seems a bit "bland", but there is something to be said for playing solid mistake free football, the way he did in the SB. Just let Peyton kill his own team with his usual playoff meltdowns.

Still, that defense won't last forever (thx FA ) and at some point he might be in for a big contract, suddenly he'll be forced to make some miracles happen . We have to wait and see, if he can provide that spark to his offense.

I just have seen nothing to suggest he's ready to take it to the next level. He's not called on much at all, has really underrated receivers, a great running game, and an amazing defense. He's hardly asked to do anything. 

[Militant X 1]

Yeah it's weird. Flacco gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets bashed for it (even when he wins the SB with the defence on a huge down year). Wilson gets help from a great running game and great defence and gets a consideration for MVP.

 

True!  As much as he has improved, Joe is still fighting the stigma of being inconsistent.  Let's be real!  To me, even though he led us to a SB and was the MVP, people still don't believe in Joe or give him his props over other QB's because of his past inconsistencies.  When Joe is on...he is on!  And when he is off...he looks like complete garbage as a QB.  Who doesn't I guess!  But regardless of all of the "stats" that show Joe's broken this or that record since being in the league no one cares about that stuff!  They remember what they SEE from him throughout a season.  Hopefully!  Hopefully!  Hopefully this year he can turn that perception around and prove everyone wrong with an incredible season, playoff birth and another Super Bowl run and win!

 

Go Ravens!

 

#Mili

[jimjim5]

I like RG3, Cam, Luck, Wilson and Kap RB.  Tom, Peyton, Drew, Aaron and Philip are beasts to me!  And, I've always loved Big Ben's style!  But Ryan?  Over Flacco?  C'mon brah!  Smh!

 

#Mili

 

That dude there is sooooooooooooo overrated. He benefits greatly from GB's system. You can plug and play QB's up there.

[PolishRifle]

Hopefully!  Hopefully!  Hopefully this year he can turn that perception around and prove everyone wrong with an incredible season, playoff birth and another Super Bowl run and win!

 

Go Ravens!

 

#Mili

 

I never thought Cam's playbook fit Joe all that well. Changing systems is a huge deal and seeing how Joe looks in the WCO is probably the most exciting thing about the next season (even more exciting than seeing our brand new defense). If there is an OC, who can get Joe to realize his full potential, it's Kubiak with his experience at calling offenses and playing the QB position. We'll see, if the inconsistencies we've seen from Joe, for all these years, is who Joe is or if his great games and hot streaks showed us what he can become. 

[BmoreBird22]

I never thought Cam's playbook fit Joe all that well. Changing systems is a huge deal and seeing how Joe looks in the WCO is probably the most exciting thing about the next season (even more exciting than seeing our brand new defense). If there is an OC, who can get Joe to realize his full potential, it's Kubiak with his experience at calling offenses and playing the QB position. We'll see, if the inconsistencies we've seen from Joe, for all these years, is who Joe is or if his great games and hot streaks showed us what he can become. 

What I think people need to realize about the Cam Cameron offense is that it was similar to Andrew Luck's. I'd actually slightly compare the situation. Less than ideal receivers for the system and offensive lines that were not good fits. I'll give it the Ravens had a better running game, but it was not a preferable offense.

 

That offense is very high risk, high reward. Lots of deep throws, lots of taking chances, lots of low percentage passes. I expect Joe to hit 65%+ of his passes, get over 4,000 yards, get less than 10 interceptions. I think this will be a very efficient year with the WCO.

[jimjim5]

What I think people need to realize about the Cam Cameron offense is that it was similar to Andrew Luck's. I'd actually slightly compare the situation. Less than ideal receivers for the system and offensive lines that were not good fits. I'll give it the Ravens had a better running game, but it was not a preferable offense.

 

That offense is very high risk, high reward. Lots of deep throws, lots of taking chances, lots of low percentage passes. I expect Joe to hit 65%+ of his passes, get over 4,000 yards, get less than 10 interceptions. I think this will be a very efficient year with the WCO.

 

Word.

[Militant X 1]

I never thought Cam's playbook fit Joe all that well. Changing systems is a huge deal and seeing how Joe looks in the WCO is probably the most exciting thing about the next season (even more exciting than seeing our brand new defense). If there is an OC, who can get Joe to realize his full potential, it's Kubiak with his experience at calling offenses and playing the QB position. We'll see, if the inconsistencies we've seen from Joe, for all these years, is who Joe is or if his great games and hot streaks showed us what he can become. 

 

Agreed!  I never liked Cam's playbook either!  Hopefully, Joe will shine in the WCO.  I've always loved this offense.  3, 5, 7 step drops with quick releases. 

 

What I think people need to realize about the Cam Cameron offense is that it was similar to Andrew Luck's. I'd actually slightly compare the situation. Less than ideal receivers for the system and offensive lines that were not good fits. I'll give it the Ravens had a better running game, but it was not a preferable offense.

 

That offense is very high risk, high reward. Lots of deep throws, lots of taking chances, lots of low percentage passes. I expect Joe to hit 65%+ of his passes, get over 4,000 yards, get less than 10 interceptions. I think this will be a very efficient year with the WCO.

 

And I couldn't stand that!  There were very little to no quick slants over the middle.  Always going deep!  Smh!  I want to see Joe shine and for him and his receivers to be consider one of the very best in the league.  Hopefully, they'll show us that in the WCO.

 

#Mili

[Guest RBates]

you cannot seriously think Wilson, Luck, Kap and Newton are better than Ryan and Flacco. One of them might surpass those two a couple years down the road......maybe. And of those guys, I think Luck is the only one who has a chance to do it.

Cam is better than Ryan and Flacco. Hands down.  Wison and Kap are better as well however i could possibly understand the shifting around of Flacco, Ryan, Wison, Rg3 and Kap because they are all about the same QB"S. Ryan is probably the worst being he has the most talented weapons and underachieves.  

[Guest RBates]

I like RG3, Cam, Luck, Wilson and Kap RB.  Tom, Peyton, Drew, Aaron and Philip are beasts to me!  And, I've always loved Big Ben's style!  But Ryan?  Over Flacco?  C'mon brah!  Smh!

 

#Mili

No, not Ryan over Flacco.  Ryan, Flacco , Rg3 in any order you like.  It doesn't matter they are all the same kind of QB. Why Cam is not considered a better Qb than both Ryan and Flacco with no supporting cast is beyond me. 

[jazz1988]

Cam is better than Ryan and Flacco. Hands down.  Wison and Kap are better as well however i could possibly understand the shifting around of Flacco, Ryan, Wison, Rg3 and Kap because they are all about the same QB"S. Ryan is probably the worst being he has the most talented weapons and underachieves.  

 

Ummm no . I don't know what you see from Cam to think he is better than Flacco and Ryan but hey it is what it is. Wilson and Kap are not better than Flacco and Ryan.

[Guest RBates]

Wilson just helped his team win a superbowl during whats suppose to be his (sophmore slump.) Oh and by the numbers in his two years he is way better than Flacco .  Just saying!!!!!

[flynismo]

Cam is better than Ryan and Flacco. Hands down.  Wison and Kap are better as well however i could possibly understand the shifting around of Flacco, Ryan, Wison, Rg3 and Kap because they are all about the same QB"S. Ryan is probably the worst being he has the most talented weapons and underachieves.  

 

Interesting. Flacco has the LEAST talented weapons of them all yet has achieved more than all of them combined

[jazz1988]

Wilson just helped his team win a superbowl during whats suppose to be his (sophmore slump.) Oh and by the numbers in his two years he is way better than Flacco .  Just saying!!!!!

 

Wilson is good quarterback  can't take that away from him but that whole team bread and butter is defense and beast mode. You crazy if you think Wilson is a better quarterback than Flacco already but thats your opinion. I would take Flacco over Wilson any day.

[display name]

Interesting. Flacco has the LEAST talented weapons of them all yet has achieved more than all of them combined

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but what the Baltimore Ravens have done over the last 6 seasons is a reflection of the Baltimore Ravens team. Flacco has certainly played a large role in those accomplishments, but he should not be held responsible for what the team has done together.

Flacco has had a good amount of talent around him. Certainly not this season, when our offense looked like a throwback to the Billick era, but through his career. The best example of the point I am trying to make is Anquan Boldin.

Boldin was traded to the Ravens in 2010 after posting 1,000 yard seasons in 2008 and 2009. If not for injuries in 2004 and 2007 that caused him to miss 4 and 6 games, respectively, Boldin would almost certainly have posted 1,000 yard seasons in all the 7 years of his career with the Arizona Cardinals. He even managed a 1,000 yard season in 2008 despite playing in only 12 games after suffering yet another injury. Having Larry Fitzgerald lining with Boldin certainly helped a lot, but this is still evidence of his talent.

During Boldin's 3 seasons with the Ravens he stayed relatively healthy (he never missed more than 2 games). Yet his highest yardage total was 921 yards. After leaving the Ravens Boldin posted another 1,000 yard season. So what does that tell you? It should show that the QBs Boldin had were able to get the ball to him better than Flacco. Flacco was a very good quarterback up until last season. He had Boldin with him for 3 seasons, but could not get him to 1,000 yards, something that many other players, including Colin Kaepernick, were able to do last season.

Flacco also had, at various points in his 6 year career: some of the best ground attacks in the game, a perennial veteran 1,000 yard receiver (Derrick Mason-posted 1,000 yards receiving for Flacco's first 2 seasons, continued his solid play in 2010), a great group of TEs, mostly solid backup QBs, and some of the best defenses in the game. All of that collapsed last season, and Flacco fell with it. But Flacco's solid play and that support carried us to 5 straight playoff appearances culminating in a SB victory.

All together Matt Ryan probably has had more talent around him than Flacco, and that is reflected by his superior statistics. But Flacco is not elite, and probably never will be. His best season came in 2010, and I wouldn't expect him to ever be much better than that. We surrounded Flacco with talent that he needed to take advantage of, and for the most part he did that. But the mark of a great QB is someone who does not fall flat on his face when the talent disappears, especially after he has been given a $120 million contract. Flacco didn't live up to that challenge. The talent around Matt Ryan regressed slightly in 2013 as well. The running game, which for 5 seasons had been carried by Michael Turner, was not a major factor last season. Ryan regressed a bit as well, yet he was still able to turn Michael Jenkins (EDIT: I meant Harry Douglas) into a 1,000 yard receiver. Now, we could do all sorts of things for Flacco. We could bring back Boldin, patch up the O-line to a solid state, put the 2011 Rice back in the lineup. But do you ever think that Flacco could turn Michael Jenkins [Douglas] into a 1,000 yard receiver when he couldn't even do that with Anquan Boldin for 3 seasons? And don't tell me that Michael Jenkins [Douglas] is better than Boldin.

So there you go. Flacco is a good quarterback, but the poor play last season was primarily his fault. There is some blame to be spread around, but Flacco needs to do better. He is being given another chance in 2014, and I think this time he will live up to it.

[flynismo]

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but what the Baltimore Ravens have done over the last 6 seasons is a reflection of the Baltimore Ravens team. Flacco has certainly played a large role in those accomplishments, but he should not be held responsible for what the team has done together.

Flacco has had a good amount of talent around him. Certainly not this season, when our offense looked like a throwback to the Billick era, but through his career. The best example of the point I am trying to make is Anquan Boldin.

Boldin was traded to the Ravens in 2010 after posting 1,000 yard seasons in 2008 and 2009. If not for injuries in 2004 and 2007 that caused him to miss 4 and 6 games, respectively, Boldin would almost certainly have posted 1,000 yard seasons in all the 7 years of his career with the Arizona Cardinals. He even managed a 1,000 yard season in 2008 despite playing in only 12 games after suffering yet another injury. Having Larry Fitzgerald lining with Boldin certainly helped a lot, but this is still evidence of his talent.

During Boldin's 3 seasons with the Ravens he stayed relatively healthy (he never missed more than 2 games). Yet his highest yardage total was 921 yards. After leaving the Ravens Boldin posted another 1,000 yard season. So what does that tell you? It should show that the QBs Boldin had were able to get the ball to him better than Flacco. Flacco was a very good quarterback up until last season. He had Boldin with him for 3 seasons, but could not get him to 1,000 yards, something that many other players, including Colin Kaepernick, were able to do last season.

Flacco also had, at various points in his 6 year career: one of the best ground attacks in the game, a perennial veteran 1,000 yard receiver (Derrick Mason-posted 1,000 yards receiving for Flacco's first 2 seasons, continued his solid play in 2010), a great group of TEs, mostly solid backup QBs, and one of the best defenses in the game. All of that collapsed last season, and Flacco fell with it. But Flacco's solid play and that support carried us to 5 straight playoff appearances culminating in a SB victory.

All together Matt Ryan probably has had more talent around him than Flacco, and that is reflected by his superior statistics. But Flacco is not elite, and probably never will be. His best season came in 2010, and I wouldn't expect him to ever be much better than that. We surrounded Flacco with talent that he needed to take advantage of, and for the most part he did that. But the mark of a great QB is someone who does not fall flat on his face when the talent disappears, especially after he has been given a $120 million contract. Flacco didn't live up to that challenge. The talent around Matt Ryan regressed slightly in 2013 as well. The running game, which for 5 seasons had been carried by Michael Turner, was not a major factor last season. Ryan regressed a bit as well, yet he was still able to turn Michael Jenkins into a 1,000 yard receiver. Now, we could do all sorts of things for Flacco. We could bring back Boldin, patch up the O-line to a solid state, put the 2011 Rice back in the lineup. But do you ever think that Flacco could turn Michael Jenkins into a 1,000 yard receiver when he couldn't even do that with Anquan Boldin for 3 seasons? And don't tell me that Michael Jenkins is better than Boldin.

So there you go. Flacco is a good quarterback, but the poor play last season was primarily his fault. There is some blame to be spread around, but Flacco needs to do better. He is being given another chance in 2014, and I think this time he will live up to it.

 

I'm not trying to turn it into one of 'those' conversations....clearly, football is a team sport. No one man gets 100% credit for the efforts of the 45 men active that day. I am simply using his argument of Ryan being an underachiever as one of the reasons it is a joke to put people like Kap and Newton over Flacco.

 

But I will say that you are confusing increased producitivity with improving the play of those around you. No QB turns Michael Jenkins into Anquan Boldin. Michael Jenkins is Michael Jenkins, and Anquan Boldin is Anquan Boldin. Their QBs, and offensive philosophies and schemes can keep them from being as productive (i.e. put up better stats) as they are capable of being, but their QBs don't help them become better route runners, make them stronger and more athletic than the DBs covering them, give them better / more reliable hands.

Look at your Boldin example as a perfect example of that. We all know why he never put up the same stats here that he did in AZ -- we throw to our RBs and TE far more, we used him completely out of character (when was the last time AZ sent him on a 40 yard go route), instead of using him the way AZ did. It's not because Flacco is an incompetent QB who held Boldin back.

[Militant X 1]

No, not Ryan over Flacco.  Ryan, Flacco , Rg3 in any order you like.  It doesn't matter they are all the same kind of QB. Why Cam is not considered a better Qb than both Ryan and Flacco with no supporting cast is beyond me. 

Oh I see!  Cam is getting better.  I like him!

 

#Mili

[display name]

Ummm no . I don't know what you see from Cam to think he is better than Flacco and Ryan but hey it is what it is. Wilson and Kap are not better than Flacco and Ryan.

Flacco has had a good career, but if we had Newton, Wilson, or Kap in 2013 we probably would have won 1-2 more games. Neg me all you want but anybody who says otherwise is drinking too much purple koolaid.