Is Flacco FINALLY gaining respect from the media? This is weird

[flynismo]

Never said they didn't. That's why I said he had a pass last year in an earlier post.

 

Not sure why you give him a pass and then ask why do people blame everyone around him when things go bad.

Really isn't some grand conspiracy by us Flacco homers....I bet if you looked at every bad game he has ever had,more often than not, there were insane factors that came into play. I mean he has legitimately stunk up the joint as well, and every time he has, the following day we see "Start Bulger" and "Start Tyrod" threads....I like to think most of us can distinguish games like the one against Cincy a few years ago where he threw 4 INTs and he was way off that game, from other games like the game against Seattle where we inexplicably threw the ball 52 times and ran it 8 times against that defense, in that stadium, during a game that was decided by 5 points.

[Inqui]

Not sure why you give him a pass and then ask why do people blame everyone around him when things go bad.

Really isn't some grand conspiracy by us Flacco homers....I bet if you looked at every bad game he has ever had,more often than not, there were insane factors that came into play. I mean he has legitimately stunk up the joint as well, and every time he has, the following day we see "Start Bulger" and "Start Tyrod" threads....I like to think most of us can distinguish games like the one against Cincy a few years ago where he threw 4 INTs and he was way off that game, from other games like the game against Seattle where we inexplicably threw the ball 52 times and ran it 8 times against that defense, in that stadium, during a game that was decided by 5 points.

To add to that Seattle example I can recall a recent game in Philly (remember when Juan Castillo was a DC?) where Ray Rice had been gashing them and we went on to stall the game-deciding drive by passing too many times. It's hard to tell if it was Joe making terribad calls like that or Scam Cameron.

 

Although either way, Joe does have his bad games but it doesn't make him a bad player any more than Drew Brees throwing five picks against (iirc) the Broncos makes him a bad QB.

[Inqui]

Don't forget the 400 rushing yards

If he doesn't put up yardage like that he's just a one-dimensional pocket passer who can't keep up with the dual-threat QB trend of today's league. And he leads the league in "almost interceptions".

[52520Andrew]

To add to that Seattle example I can recall a recent game in Philly (remember when Juan Castillo was a DC?) where Ray Rice had been gashing them and we went on to stall the game-deciding drive by passing too many times. It's hard to tell if it was Joe making terribad calls like that or Scam Cameron.

 

Although either way, Joe does have his bad games but it doesn't make him a bad player any more than Drew Brees throwing five picks against The Falcons makes him a bad QB.

 

Fixed

 

Had him in fantasy that year, that week hurt. But then he went on a tear in the playoffs and I got the championship with him so it is forgiven lol

[ravensdfan]

Let's not kid ourselves. This is a no win situation for Flacco.

If he performs consistently but doesn't win fantasy games, he sucks because he had Kubiak and targets.

If he puts up the numbers, the argument will be well Kubiak made even Matt Schaub look good.

It won't matter to the FHC members either way.

[SecretAgentMan]

Let's not kid ourselves. This is a no win situation for Flacco.

If he performs consistently but doesn't win fantasy games, he sucks because he had Kubiak and targets.

If he puts up the numbers, the argument will be well Kubiak made even Matt Schaub look good.

It won't matter to the FHC members either way.

The only way he gets respect is if he wins another 2 SBs. That's how much the media has tarnished his reputation. He'll need 4 total SBs to get into the hall of fame, when most qbs can get in when they win 3.

[Ravensfan23]

Not sure why you give him a pass and then ask why do people blame everyone around him when things go bad.

Really isn't some grand conspiracy by us Flacco homers....I bet if you looked at every bad game he has ever had,more often than not, there were insane factors that came into play. I mean he has legitimately stunk up the joint as well, and every time he has, the following day we see "Start Bulger" and "Start Tyrod" threads....I like to think most of us can distinguish games like the one against Cincy a few years ago where he threw 4 INTs and he was way off that game, from other games like the game against Seattle where we inexplicably threw the ball 52 times and ran it 8 times against that defense, in that stadium, during a game that was decided by 5 points.

 

That's what gets me. I've heard so many so called "experts" say that last season exposed Flacco or showed that Flacco can't carry a team without a running game. Shawn Springs on that terrible show produced by that Redskin loving CSN was the most recent person to say this. I look at this statement and wonder if those guys actually take the time to not only watch games but to factor in all the components that lead to each result. imo if you aren't willing to go the extra mile to do this, then you aren't an expert. You're just some guy that can look at the stats and end result of a game and talk about it.

 

Imo to say last season exposed Flacco is foolish. If everyone said healthy and all other things said the same, meaning no Boldin and no running game, and still had his worse season as a pro then I'd agree. But that wasn't the case. In all honesty Flacco probably played the best football of his career over the first 6-7 games of last season. Yes I know the Bills game is included in that, but if you look at every game last season up until the Browns after the bye, Flacco played really well despite the terrible play around him.

 

So to hear people say that, I'm thinking. Show me a QB that can perform well with a patch work oline, losing 2 of his top 3 pass catchers, having two other offensive weapons being hurt(coby and rice) and thus having to rely on 2 guys that basically had both feet in retirement before the Ravens reached out to them(Clark and Stokely), two interior olineman that just weren't capable of stopping inside pressure, a rookie WR and a guy who you cut weeks before in favor of that rookie and another rookie WR and a offense that doesn't know it's identity. If Flacco is still expected to put up Elite type numbers dealing with that then he's in a no win situation imo. When he has success it's a team game and the players around him did most of the work. But when he throws a career high Ints, it's all on him.

[Guest RBates]

and what exactly does put up consist of?

A decent overall season.  A season that solidifies your contract.  It's not rocket science gentlemen.  Flacco needs a big year.  Mediocre seasons and one Superbowl is not going to get it done.  We all fill the need to watch him take the next step.

 

At 120 million, i wont stand for average.  We could build up so many other areas of our team and get an average QB and win a Superbowl.  Is Dilfer still out there?

[TDubbs]

At 120 million, i wont stand for average.  We could build up so many other areas of our team and get an average QB and win a Superbowl.  Is Dilfer still out there?

 

I don't think you can win a SB like that anymore. Good example would be the Bengals. Arguably the most talented team in the league, they've made the playoffs a few years in a row now. Dalton played like garbage in those playoff games and they lost. 

[Guest RBates]

If he doesn't put up yardage like that he's just a one-dimensional pocket passer who can't keep up with the dual-threat QB trend of today's league. And he leads the league in "almost interceptions".

That would be about accurate.  If your not a dual threat, then what is the problem with expecting a pocket passer to be a pocket passer? 

[Guest RBates]

I don't think you can win a SB like that anymore. Good example would be the Bengals. Arguably the most talented team in the league, they've made the playoffs a few years in a row now. Dalton played like garbage in those playoff games and they lost. 

Russell Wilson was suppose to be an average QB. He just won his team a Super Bowl with mediocre receivers, a strong run game and a stellar defense. 

[Ravensfan23]

A decent overall season.  A season that solidifies your contract.  It's not rocket science gentlemen.  Flacco needs a big year.  Mediocre seasons and one Superbowl is not going to get it done.  We all fill the need to watch him take the next step.

 

At 120 million, i wont stand for average.  We could build up so many other areas of our team and get an average QB and win a Superbowl.  Is Dilfer still out there?

 

Ok but you haven't answered my question. Because based on some of these other contracts I see QBs getting I could make a case that Flacco has more then played up to his contract. But what does a decent season consistent of? Is it 4,300yds 30tds 8ints and a playoff berth? Does he need to be a pro bowler? What is decent, because I could say that if he didn't has so many INTs last season his season would have been decent. So if he does the same numbers this year but cuts down on the ints, puts up another 3Tds and gets us into the playoffs with one more win, does that solidify his contract? I've never been good a science, rocket nor any other, so you're gonna have to help me out a little bit here lol. What exactly is you're definition of decent?

 

I do agree that I don't want to see average play from Flacco and thus far we've only gotten slightly above that. We will not win the SB the same way again, so if anyone thinks we can repeat the 2012 season in any way i'd caution them not to wait on it. Flacco has to be better and I see no reason to think he won't. Not for contract sake, but because the guy is way more talented then his numbers and overall play would suggest. Imo every great QB had a coach or overall system that brought out the absolute best in them, I think both the system and Kubes will do that for Flacco. But we'll see.

[The Raven]

That's what gets me. I've heard so many so called "experts" say that last season exposed Flacco or showed that Flacco can't carry a team without a running game. Shawn Springs on that terrible show produced by that Redskin loving CSN was the most recent person to say this. I look at this statement and wonder if those guys actually take the time to not only watch games but to factor in all the components that lead to each result. imo if you aren't willing to go the extra mile to do this, then you aren't an expert. You're just some guy that can look at the stats and end result of a game and talk about it.

 

Imo to say last season exposed Flacco is foolish. If everyone said healthy and all other things said the same, meaning no Boldin and no running game, and still had his worse season as a pro then I'd agree. But that wasn't the case. In all honesty Flacco probably played the best football of his career over the first 6-7 games of last season. Yes I know the Bills game is included in that, but if you look at every game last season up until the Browns after the bye, Flacco played really well despite the terrible play around him.

 

So to hear people say that, I'm thinking. Show me a QB that can perform well with a patch work oline, losing 2 of his top 3 pass catchers, having two other offensive weapons being hurt(coby and rice) and thus having to rely on 2 guys that basically had both feet in retirement before the Ravens reached out to them(Clark and Stokely), two interior olineman that just weren't capable of stopping inside pressure, a rookie WR and a guy who you cut weeks before in favor of that rookie and another rookie WR and a offense that doesn't know it's identity. If Flacco is still expected to put up Elite type numbers dealing with that then he's in a no win situation imo. When he has success it's a team game and the players around him did most of the work. But when he throws a career high Ints, it's all on him.

 

I hope you don't expect an answer to this. lol.

[Ravensfan23]

I hope you don't expect an answer to this. lol.

 

Of course not lol. The answer to this is a logical one and the entire Flacco debate is anything but logic, so no I don't expect an answer.

[1/28/01]

Ugh, lets just all agree we want more consistency from our franchise QB with a $120M contract.

[flynismo]

Ugh, lets just all agree we want more consistency from our franchise QB with a $120M contract.

I think we all already agree on that, but I also think that is the source of the debates

[Ravensfan23]

Ugh, lets just all agree we want more consistency from our franchise QB with a $120M contract.

 

I was with you up until the $120M contract. Why should the contract have anything to do with it. We just want more consistent play from Flacco period. Nobody says we want more consistent play from Webb with his contract, or Ngata with his contract. In terms of building the team yes the contract is relevant, but in terms of what should be expected of Flacco's play the contract has nothing to do with it. Flacco needs to consistently play at a high level because he's fully capable of it and it's the Ravens job to surround him with proper talent that can help him stay at that level of consistency. In a few years Flacco's contract is gonna look like pennies anyway compared to other guys who will get paid.

 

Right now Flacco is 11th in base salary among QB in 2014, that's falls just behind Alex Smith. He's tied with Brady for 11th in terms of money against the Cap for QBs. So if he's the 12th best QB in the NFL, I'd say he's playing up to his "current contract".

 

Next season in 2015 he'll be ranked as the 14th highest paid QB in the NFL. So can we please stop talking about the contract already. At this point in time Flacco has an average contract.

[flynismo]

I was with you up until the $120M contract. Why should the contract have anything to do with it. We just want more consistent play from Flacco period. Nobody says we want more consistent play from Webb with his contract, or Ngata with his contract. In terms of building the team yes the contract is relevant, but in terms of what should be expected of Flacco's play the contract has nothing to do with it. Flacco needs to consistently play at a high level because he's fully capable of it and it's the Ravens job to surround him with proper talent that can help him stay at that level of consistency. In a few years Flacco's contract is gonna look like pennies anyway compared to other guys who will get paid.

 

Right now Flacco is 11th in base salary among QB in 2014, that's falls just behind Alex Smith. He's tied with Brady for 11th in terms of money against the Cap for QBs. So if he's the 12th best QB in the NFL, I'd say he's playing up to his "current contract".

 

Next season in 2015 he'll be ranked as the 14th highest paid QB in the NFL. So can we please stop talking about the contract already. At this point in time Flacco has an average contract.

I think his contract is a legitimate point of contention. Big money equals big pressure, big expectations....look at Ngata -- we have people here who want him cut or traded because for one reason or another he has not lived up to that contract the last couple years.

Magnify that 10x because Flacco is the QB....he is the guy more than anyone else who will determine how successful this team will be....as he goes, so does the rest of the team.

[ravensdan]

Flacco talent wise is easily in the top ten, closer to the top 5 just based on his play alone. The throws he makes. Not based on everyone else's play. Half the QBs in the league don't even attempt throws flacco makes. There are no QBs in the league who's going to be spot on with big time pressure. Including manning Brady and Rodgers. It's amazing to me fans of his own team don't even realize his talent.

As for the contract, that's completely irrelevant. It's the going market rate for a franchise QB. Not sure why people don't understand that. The ravens were able to win a Super Bowl in flaccos rookie deal. As were the Seahawks. It's certainly an advantage in building a contending team. However the cap is going up. Way up in the next few years. Regardless his contract is a totally seperate issue from his play.

[Ravensfan23]

I think his contract is a legitimate point of contention. Big money equals big pressure, big expectations....look at Ngata -- we have people here who want him cut or traded because for one reason or another he has not lived up to that contract the last couple years.

Magnify that 10x because Flacco is the QB....he is the guy more than anyone else who will determine how successful this team will be....as he goes, so does the rest of the team.

 

I get that fly, believe me I do. The contract will be an issue until certain people feel isn't an issue anymore lol. But again Flacco doesn't need to play well just because he has a big contract, he needs to play better because he's  capable of  being one of the top QBs in the NFL. There has been no difference in the pressure Flacco has faced to produce from his rookie deal until now imo, but it seems like the 120 gives everyone reason to say, hey I told you he wasn't worth it. We are one year into a 7 year deal with Flacco and as I mentioned above he won't be paid as a "TOP QB" until year 2016. There will be 17 QBs with a higher base salary then Flacco next season. At some point the contract talk just gets ridiculous.

 

Even if Joe lead up to a SB ring last year he couldn't have lived up to his contract in one year. Flacco didn't play poorly because of his contract, it was just a poor offense. Yet all you hear is about the contract and how we won't be able to upgrade the team because we paid Joe. Again he's the 11th highest paid QB, but all any talks about is the 120M. If you are gonna say he's one of the highest paid QB in the NFL and he needs to live up to that, then you also need to recognize the fact that Flacco isn't even in the top 10 in QB salaries. Flacco just needs to play better consistently, period. Now with the new system and Kubes as the play designer/caller I fully expect Flacco to play really well and more then live up to his contract, but he won't live up or down to his contract in only 2 years.

[flynismo]

I get that fly, believe me I do. The contract will be an issue until certain people feel isn't an issue anymore lol. But again Flacco doesn't need to play well just because he has a big contract, he needs to play better because he's  capable of  being one of the top QBs in the NFL. There has been no difference in the pressure Flacco has faced to produce from his rookie deal until now imo, but it seems like the 120 gives everyone reason to say, hey I told you he wasn't worth it. We are one year into a 7 year deal with Flacco and as I mentioned above he won't be paid as a "TOP QB" until year 2016. There will be 17 QBs with a higher base salary then Flacco next season. At some point the contract talk just gets ridiculous.

 

Even if Joe lead up to a SB ring last year he couldn't have lived up to his contract in one year. Flacco didn't play poorly because of his contract, it was just a poor offense. Yet all you hear is about the contract and how we won't be able to upgrade the team because we paid Joe. Again he's the 11th highest paid QB, but all any talks about is the 120M. If you are gonna say he's one of the highest paid QB in the NFL and he needs to live up to that, then you also need to recognize the fact that Flacco isn't even in the top 10 in QB salaries. Flacco just needs to play better consistently, period. Now with the new system and Kubes as the play designer/caller I fully expect Flacco to play really well and more then live up to his contract, but he won't live up or down to his contract in only 2 years.

Yeah, I mean I definitely know where you're coming from; you view it as "he is capable of more than what we saw last year, and he also is still relatively early in his career and still peaking, therefore he needs to do better"....that's the philosophical side of it, and it is just as valid as the business side of it, which is "you are consuming around 15% of our alloted cap space on average, so therefore we expect you to play on the highest level you possibly can "

[Ravenseconbeast]

I was with you up until the $120M contract. Why should the contract have anything to do with it. We just want more consistent play from Flacco period. Nobody says we want more consistent play from Webb with his contract, or Ngata with his contract. In terms of building the team yes the contract is relevant, but in terms of what should be expected of Flacco's play the contract has nothing to do with it. Flacco needs to consistently play at a high level because he's fully capable of it and it's the Ravens job to surround him with proper talent that can help him stay at that level of consistency. In a few years Flacco's contract is gonna look like pennies anyway compared to other guys who will get paid.

Right now Flacco is 11th in base salary among QB in 2014, that's falls just behind Alex Smith. He's tied with Brady for 11th in terms of money against the Cap for QBs. So if he's the 12th best QB in the NFL, I'd say he's playing up to his "current contract".

Next season in 2015 he'll be ranked as the 14th highest paid QB in the NFL. So can we please stop talking about the contract already. At this point in time Flacco has an average contract.

That's easy..b/c big money commands big performances. Just like ngata &ray rice if they fail to play to the standard of what they get paid, you have to consider using that money somewhere you can help the team better. Being 23rd (top 5 worst in starting qb last year) is very telling. For one, it told me he could never carry a team like the few elite qbs in NFL today can. Flacco needs alot of support around him. Whether that be a great defense or great supporting cast @offense. His not really that much special if we were to strike a luck w/ a new QB that does very well.

[Ravensfan23]

Yeah, I mean I definitely know where you're coming from; you view it as "he is capable of more than what we saw last year, and he also is still relatively early in his career and still peaking, therefore he needs to do better"....that's the philosophical side of it, and it is just as valid as the business side of it, which is "you are consuming around 15% of our alloted cap space on average, so therefore we expect you to play on the highest level you possibly can "

 

Oh I definitely get the business side of it, I'm a business owner in the financial industry, so I can certainly appreciate the business side of it. My point is, that doesn't need to be brought up every time Flacco doesn't play well. If one can't clearly see that most of the offensive mishaps last year came from things out of Flacco's control then there's no point of even engaging in this topic honestly.

 

 

That's easy..b/c big money commands big performances. Just like ngata &ray rice if they fail to play to the standard of what they get paid, you have to consider using that money somewhere you can help the team better. Being 23rd (top 5 worst in starting qb last year) is very telling. For one, it told me he could never carry a team like the few elite qbs in NFL today can. Flacco needs alot of support around him. Whether that be a great defense or great supporting cast @offense. His not really that much special if we were to strike a luck w/ a new QB that does very well.

 

This is the worse argument I've every heard and the sad part is I hear it far to often. Not attacking you just your opinion of the situation. Name me one QB that doesn't need a lot of support around them? You think the Colts continued to draft first round WRs, RBs and oline, despite having a poor defense so many years because they just felt those guys were the best available players all those years. Why did the Broncos shell out big money for a guy like Wes Welker who is viewed as "the best slot WR" in the game. Why not just go get some udfa kid off the street and allow Peyton to make him great? You and anyone who thinks like you are kidding yourself if you don't think guys like Brady, Brees, and Rodger don't greatly benefit from having either great talent or a great system.

 

I find it so funny how people say Flacco needs so much support, yet he is continually given guys who are either past their prime or shoved into a system that doesn't fit them. Please tell me what type of great support Flacco has had. And before you go to Q, remember that Q had to come to Baltimore before winning a Super Bowl. It's not like Q was winning Super Bowls every year with AZ or the we only started being good when Q arrived because that's not the case. Hell I could make the point that Q was as much to blame for the Ravens not moving on to the AFCCG in 2010 as Lee Evans was responsible for his drop. Both guys dropped potential game winning TDs. Where was all the love for Q then? Kurt Warren was viewed as a great QB, he didn't win a Super Bowl with Q. Who else did Flacco have that provided "a lot" of support in winning the Super Bowl. If Peyton won a SB with the names of Torrey, Pitta, Dickson and Jacoby people would be screaming about his greatness and how he made those players even better. However with Flacco those guys are viewed as a great supporting case. It's ridiculously funny imo. Even now there is a large group of people who feel Flacco and the offense just don't have enough weapons, but when we win they'll be viewed as the greatest oline and pass catchers ever because Flacco just can't do it without support.

 

I wonder how Peyton faired in the Super Bowl without the support of his teammates. Funny how even the great look bad when everything around them fall apart. Brady looked like Kyle Boller in the 2009 wildcard game when he didn't have much help from his oline. Can you please name me the "lot" of support Flacco has had?

[hawkprey]

"QB X is great, look at his stats."

"Yeah but that's because he has so much talent around him."
"It doesn't matter who's around him because he's a great QB. I mean just look at those stats."

 

Oh the circuitous offseason logic.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Oh I definitely get the business side of it, I'm a business owner in the financial industry, so I can certainly appreciate the business side of it. My point is, that doesn't need to be brought up every time Flacco doesn't play well. If one can't clearly see that most of the offensive mishaps last year came from things out of Flacco's control then there's no point of even engaging in this topic honestly.

 

 

 

This is the worse argument I've every heard and the sad part is I hear it far to often. Not attacking you just your opinion of the situation. Name me one QB that doesn't need a lot of support around them? You think the Colts continued to draft first round WRs, RBs and oline, despite having a poor defense so many years because they just felt those guys were the best available players all those years. Why did the Broncos shell out big money for a guy like Wes Welker who is viewed as "the best slot WR" in the game. Why not just go get some udfa kid off the street and allow Peyton to make him great? You and anyone who thinks like you are kidding yourself if you don't think guys like Brady, Brees, and Rodger don't greatly benefit from having either great talent or a great system.

 

I find it so funny how people say Flacco needs so much support, yet he is continually given guys who are either past their prime or shoved into a system that doesn't fit them. Please tell me what type of great support Flacco has had. And before you go to Q, remember that Q had to come to Baltimore before winning a Super Bowl. It's not like Q was winning Super Bowls every year with AZ or the we only started being good when Q arrived because that's not the case. Hell I could make the point that Q was as much to blame for the Ravens not moving on to the AFCCG in 2010 as Lee Evans was responsible for his drop. Both guys dropped potential game winning TDs. Where was all the love for Q then? Kurt Warren was viewed as a great QB, he didn't win a Super Bowl with Q. Who else did Flacco have that provided "a lot" of support in winning the Super Bowl. If Peyton won a SB with the names of Torrey, Pitta, Dickson and Jacoby people would be screaming about his greatness and how he made those players even better. However with Flacco those guys are viewed as a great supporting case. It's ridiculously funny imo. Even now there is a large group of people who feel Flacco and the offense just don't have enough weapons, but when we win they'll be viewed as the greatest oline and pass catchers ever because Flacco just can't do it without support.

 

I wonder how Peyton faired in the Super Bowl without the support of his teammates. Funny how even the great look bad when everything around them fall apart. Brady looked like Kyle Boller in the 2009 wildcard game when he didn't have much help from his oline. Can you please name me the "lot" of support Flacco has had?

 

 

I still think i have a valid point.  It's really your opinion against mine.   But to be paid that much and to have a performance like last year, whether it be from poor offense supporting cast kind of tells me Flacco isn't great.  

 

Put some pieces around him, and i think he will thrive.   Believe it or not, I have some (relatively positive) optimism for Flacco doing well this season.   Why?  B/C he has the pieces around him to do so.   You can argue Peyton having a great cast now, but how about Andrew Luck last year?  What about Brady last year? or Philip Rivers?  Those are 'great cast'?  Just sayin..

 

Football is really a team sports.  Teams that really understands how to work together eventually wins the big one.  I think if anything, Flacco is the first guy in the team to always realize that.  But there are very few exceptional QB that really stands out and be a 'great' one that puts a major weight on his shoulders.  Flacco just isn't that guy. 

[PolishRifle]

"QB X is great, look at his stats."

"Yeah but that's because he has so much talent around him."

"It doesn't matter who's around him because he's a great QB. I mean just look at those stats."

 

Oh the circuitous offseason logic.

 

Training Camp start July 24th and the Ravens have their first PreSeason game August 7th, I believe. So have fun with this debate for the next 3 weeks atleast. Yay.

[flynismo]

I still think i have a valid point.  It's really your opinion against mine.   But to be paid that much and to have a performance like last year, whether it be from poor offense supporting cast kind of tells me Flacco isn't great.  

 

Put some pieces around him, and i think he will thrive.   Believe it or not, I have some (relatively positive) optimism for Flacco doing well this season.   Why?  B/C he has the pieces around him to do so.   You can argue Peyton having a great cast now, but how about Andrew Luck last year?  What about Brady last year? or Philip Rivers?  Those are 'great cast'?  Just sayin..

 

Football is really a team sports.  Teams that really understands how to work together eventually wins the big one.  I think if anything, Flacco is the first guy in the team to always realize that.  But there are very few exceptional QB that really stands out and be a 'great' one that puts a major weight on his shoulders.  Flacco just isn't that guy. 

 

 

It's really hard to say anything good or bad about Flacco, based solely on last year....Sure, Brady, Luck and River's supporting casts weren't anywhere near as good as say, Manning's, but they also were nowhere near as horrid as Flacco's. If Flacco at least had SOMETHING (a good running game, a strong OL, a strong recieving group....SOMETHING), then I don't think the season turns out anywhere near as bad as it did....in fact, assuming that gets us an extra win or two, we're then in the playoffs, and who knows what after that.

 

 

Wait, I take that back, he did have a beast kicker lol

[Ravensfan23]

I still think i have a valid point.  It's really your opinion against mine.   But to be paid that much and to have a performance like last year, whether it be from poor offense supporting cast kind of tells me Flacco isn't great.  

 

Put some pieces around him, and i think he will thrive.   Believe it or not, I have some (relatively positive) optimism for Flacco doing well this season.   Why?  B/C he has the pieces around him to do so.   You can argue Peyton having a great cast now, but how about Andrew Luck last year?  What about Brady last year? or Philip Rivers?  Those are 'great cast'?  Just sayin..

 

Football is really a team sports.  Teams that really understands how to work together eventually wins the big one.  I think if anything, Flacco is the first guy in the team to always realize that.  But there are very few exceptional QB that really stands out and be a 'great' one that puts a major weight on his shoulders.  Flacco just isn't that guy. 

 

Again not attacking you in anyway here. Have you ever played football at any point in your life. I started playing when I was 6 years old and even dating back to then, I can vividly remember my coaches preaching how football is the ultimate team sport and how the oline is the engine that allows the car to run. If they aren't playing well nobody on the offense will play well. I used to think that was just a way for them to keep the fat kids happy and make them feel apart of the team, but it's so very true. You continue to talk about skilled players, but one of the biggest factors that led to Flacco matching the greatest run in playoff history was the fact that the offensive line kept him off his back. Last season that didn't happen..

 

Can you honestly sit here and say the oline playing poorly was a result of Flacco not being good enough to put them on his shoulders? Also lets talk about the "talent" that Flacco needs around him. As bad as the oline was, Flacco helped Torrey Smith have a career year and was actually one of the top 3 WRs in the NFL at one point. Marlon Brown was top 5 among rookie WRs in yards, TDs and was ranked 6th in catches. If those two guys are playing with Peyton you are probably saying how Peyton made those guys better. All those other QBs you named might not have had great WR corps around them, but they had continuity. The Ravens wanted to rely so heavily on the TE position last year and basically got nothing from the duo of Dickson and Clark, not because Flacco wasn't good, but because they dropped too many passes. We wanted Jacoby to be a #2 WR and he got hurt first game, we wanted to rely heavily on Doss as at least a slot guy and he was cut. He wasn't cut because Flacco was a poor QB, he was cut because he couldn't beat out 2 rookies. You can say whatever you want, Brady, Peyton and others were not asked to rely on 2 AARP members, a guy who was cut in favor of rookies and a UDFA rookie, not to mention a LT who joined the team mid-season, a G/C combo who were poor, Yanda who just didn't have his norm strength because of the shoulder injury and Oher on the oline.  None of this was a result of Flacco not being good enough. Flacco played poorly no doubt, but If you are asking him to overcome all that, then I can only imagine how hard you must be on Peyton for not being able to overcome his weapons playing so soft in the Super Bowl.

[52520Andrew]

The Pats and Chargers both had good O-lines and running games last year. The Colts did lose Wayne and Luck struggled from that but his line and receivers weren't as bad as ours. Luck is still a really good QB however so he made it work to get them to the playoffs but New England had a far better team so even Luck couldn't carry them then. Also, before last year, Rivers was struggling with a bad O-line as well.

 

Flacco had a bad O-line and besides Torrey who other teams just doubled, he didn't have much to work with. Can't really fault anyone for struggling in those conditions and I think he plays a lot better this next year with a legitimate offense.

[display name]

I think we're all just going in circles here.