our history of draft picks 3rd round or later

[Ozzsome]

The Ravens lead the comp picks by a mile, which means we lose players during FA every year. Still Ozzie manages to put together one of the better teams in the league year in year out, through very smart FA signings but especially because of very good drafting.

The comp picks tell you everything you need to know about the Wizard of Ozz

[BloodRaven]

How dare you judge me for judging others, what kind of standard are we trying to set here? I for one will not ride my high horse and be spoken down to!

 

Before you get offended remember sarcasm tends to have that affect on people who don't get it...

 

Please. Sarcasm is lost in written medium, it's also the lowest form of wit.

[0_o]

The question is, can you be objective and take constructive criticism or see the world through purple glasses. iin 17 years of drafting i don't see many stars from the 3rd round down. the ravens have lost some serviceable players but other than priest holmes who was a UDFA thye haven't been stars in teh league. heck, i didn;t even review the second round picks which have been down right busts in a lot of cases.

i agree with the poster who said ozzie and compny has hit on a lot of UDFA's, the latest neing marlon brown.

 

Being objective means showing the Hall of Fame players drafted after the 3rd round for every team and critiquing the Ravens in context....not selectively looking at a few drafts and making a statement that reflects an 18 year history in which 2 Super Bowls were won and countless playoff appearances have been made.

 

But are we trying to be objective here or just critical??

[Inqui]

The question is, can you be objective and take constructive criticism or see the world through purple glasses. iin 17 years of drafting i don't see many stars from the 3rd round down. the ravens have lost some serviceable players but other than priest holmes who was a UDFA thye haven't been stars in teh league. heck, i didn;t even review the second round picks which have been down right busts in a lot of cases.

i agree with the poster who said ozzie and compny has hit on a lot of UDFA's, the latest neing marlon brown.

There's generally a reason players are picked after the third round, so saying we haven't been that flash after that point is a bit misleading.

 

Comparing our number of hits and misses at that point to other teams at the same point would be more accurate. Seattle might edge us recently, but they've been drafting to a model (big, physical players with a chip on their shoulder and a metabolism for PEDs), but that model won't be quite as reliable in the future as those types get picked up earlier after this past SB.

 

Anyone can be good, but where Ozzie's arguably the best in the game is consistently drafting good players and setting them up to succeed long-term.

[The Raven]

I think our recent draft history is up for debate

 

From our 2008 draft, only Flacco and Rice remain. 

From our 2009 draft, only Webb remains. Kruger was good but he's gone. Oher sucked and is now gone.

From our 2010 draft, only Pitta remains. Kindle busted. Dickson and Cody could be gone in FA, and they underperformed. Harewood is gone.

From our 2011 draft, only Doss and Anthony Allen is gone. This was probably our best draft in a while. Jimmy, Torrey, Reid, McPhee, Chykie, and Tyrod are still with us.

From our 2012 draft, Upshaw, KO, Pierce, Gino, Asa, and Tyson remain. Another solid draft class, but we've already lost two of them.

And from 2013, we still have everyone except Marc Anthony. 

 

We've been good since 2011, but 08-10 were not as good draft classes as some think. From those classes, we really only got eight quality guys, and of those, two are gone, and two more might be gone soon. 

[bMore Heathen]

The question is, can you be objective and take constructive criticism or see the world through purple glasses. iin 17 years of drafting i don't see many stars from the 3rd round down. the ravens have lost some serviceable players but other than priest holmes who was a UDFA thye haven't been stars in teh league. heck, i didn;t even review the second round picks which have been down right busts in a lot of cases.

i agree with the poster who said ozzie and compny has hit on a lot of UDFA's, the latest neing marlon brown.

So your criteria for being a great drafting GM is they have to pull HOFers out of mid to late picks? Damn, well I guess there aren't very great GMs out there.

When your dealing with these types of players, it's a lot more about the coaching then it is the drafting.

[RavensAllTheWay]

I think our recent draft history is up for debate

 

From our 2008 draft, only Flacco and Rice remain. 

From our 2009 draft, only Webb remains. Kruger was good but he's gone. Oher sucked and is now gone.

From our 2010 draft, only Pitta remains. Kindle busted. Dickson and Cody could be gone in FA, and they underperformed. Harewood is gone.

From our 2011 draft, only Doss and Anthony Allen is gone. This was probably our best draft in a while. Jimmy, Torrey, Reid, McPhee, Chykie, and Tyrod are still with us.

From our 2012 draft, Upshaw, KO, Pierce, Gino, Asa, and Tyson remain. Another solid draft class, but we've already lost two of them.

And from 2013, we still have everyone except Marc Anthony. 

 

We've been good since 2011, but 08-10 were not as good draft classes as some think. From those classes, we really only got eight quality guys, and of those, two are gone, and two more might be gone soon. 

 

08 was a great draft class.  Finding a franchise QB and RB nullifies missing on later picks, and we didn't even miss with guys like Zibi and Harkui, who were solid depth at safety, and lasted a few years here, giving us contributions.  

 

For 10, I can't really hold Ozzie responsible for the Kindle pick because no one could've seen his injury coming.

[Puntit]

Fist, HOF players are like rare diamonds. Most GMs go entire careers never picking any, and if they do, it's because their team was awful and they got to pick in the top 10 most years. Ozzie already found Lewis, Reed, Ogden, and his career isn't over yet. Second, you don't win super bowls with one or two HOF players. You don't even necessarily win with probowl players. You win it with the above average guys who gel as a team and give you 100% of what they've got on every play. Sometimes those guys get recognized for that, sometimes they retire the unsung heroes.

Most of the guys who got big paydays after the Ravens SuperBowl win were nothing special when they got drafted (Carey Williams wasn't on anyone's radar and could have been snared off of our practice squad multiple times). The value of a GM is to see the guys who have that edge, and can be coached up. The guys who aren't going to start in year one but might do something special in year four. Anyone can pick in the top ten and come away with a serviceable player. Surprisingly few routinely do well after the early rounds. The only way you judge the ability of a GM for this is by comp picks. A guy with a lot of comp picks is the guy who selected and groomed guys into players other teams would out bid the Ravens to acquire. Ozzie by far has accumulated the most comp picks in the NFL so he has done the best job of picking players who develop into gems in the NFL.

I'm sorry but what other GM out there has as many HOF players to his name and that kind of history of comp picks? That list is very very very short.

[arnie_uk]

Not to be a jerk, but don't scouts do most of the work?

[Puntit]

Not to be a jerk, but don't scouts do most of the work?

They provide the intel. Somebody has to weigh that intel and pull the trigger. At the top of the draft all the scouting reports look good, and few scouts see everyone out there, so you still have to weigh the evaluation against the other report/players. plus who do you think decides which scouts to hire and rely on. I promise you every GM gets brought detailed scouting reports on most of the top players. Some scouts are better than others and most can't see every player. All they really do is collate findings and give scores and Ozzie and his team have to decide how to weigh that information.

[K-Dog]

Its a team thing I am sure.

[izvoodoo]

none are hall of famers.

 

They are hall of very good

 

Rice not so much

Seriously?  that's your standard.  The hall of fame?  

That's insanity.

[bMore Heathen]

A long time ago young friend there was this man. He was a quarterback named Joe Montana. Can't tell you for sure what round he was drafted but the young man went on to have one heck of a run in the NFL. He may have even won a Super Bowl, I can't quite recall, but what round? Oh yeah, I there was a team he may have faced with a tight end named Ozzie Newsome. Wonder how that all worked out? Going to Wikipedia now and see what I missed, sounds like a story to me. Then again, I'm old!! LMAO!

You're talking about players from 30 years ago. What happened to San Fran's GM from back then anyways?

[Cville-Raven]

Seriously? that's your standard. The hall of fame?

That's insanity.

Yeah that's absurd.

[baltimorefan328]

Here's a list of all of our drafts. Highlighted players are still active.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/draft.htm

Edit: in our last 5 drafts, there are only 2 players that aren't active in the NFL. That's pretty impressive. I think our drafts get overlooked because for so many years we had such a veteran team.

I think my favorite part of that whole article is right at the top where it says 14-7 in the playoffs and 2 for 2 in super bowls. I personally think Ozzie's reputation can be looked at negatively because he missed on so many WR early in Ravens history and it was such a defensive team with no QB. But now we see once Ozzie drafted that QB the Ravens have made the playoffs in 5-6 years, 1 super bowl (could have possibly been 2 if lee evans could catch or cundiff could make a chip shot), and 3 AFC championship games. He may not draft 3 pro bowlers every year but who does. Solid value picks, right prices, right spots...Ravens have had consistent talent and even last year at 8-8 still were in the hunt. I agree Ozzie hasn't had that jaw dropping draft in a little while, but I definitely don't think he has faltered either. This will definitely be a big draft for him to prove just how good he really is at pick no 17 and 6 picks in the first 4 rounds

[codizzle]

Not to be a jerk, but don't scouts do most of the work?

Nope we do.. Ozzie reads the forum

[Ravenseconbeast]

Our FO/Ozzie knows what it takes to build a full 53 roster. And it really takes a full 53 to win a SB. While some team definitely has a knack to find superstars, very few organization knows how to build a complete team year in, year out.

[bMore Heathen]

You missed my point. What I meant to say is the Ravens history, as well as all teams have found great players in the later rounds of the draft or undrafted free agents. I was using an analogy, probably should just said it. My bad, thanks for asking.

And you missed my point in saying that those players were drafted 30 years ago when scouting was still very much in its infancy. If you wanted to see a player, you had to send a scout to the game. Nowadays you can get game film from every D 1 and D 2 school, so a lot less players slip through the cracks. And you can get multiple opinions of a player. Something that was unheard of 30-40 years ago.

You expectations are extremely unrealistic if you think we're going out and getting a Joe Montana in the 3rd round.

[The Raven]

Not to be a jerk, but don't scouts do most of the work?

 

From what I understand, the scouts do most of the work in locating the talent, writing scouting reports, compiling film, and evaluating a player. After the season is over, Ozzie goes over the reports and the film. 

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

And you missed my point in saying that those players were drafted 30 years ago when scouting was still very much in its infancy. If you wanted to see a player, you had to send a scout to the game. Nowadays you can get game film from every D 1 and D 2 school, so a lot less players slip through the cracks. And you can get multiple opinions of a player. Something that was unheard of 30-40 years ago.

You expectations are extremely unrealistic if you think we're going out and getting a Joe Montana in the 3rd round.

No expectations. Look up analogy and go hack some one else. I am out. Please don't reply, it ends here. Your right, I'm wrong, is that what you want? Let it go, I am!

[Puntit]

From what I understand, the scouts do most of the work in locating the talent, writing scouting reports, compiling film, and evaluating a player. After the season is over, Ozzie goes over the reports and the film.

Basically scouts are like dogs in a hunt. they focus in on the animal the hunter may not see, and flush him out. But nobody considers them the ones pulling the trigger and most are pretty fungible. Nobody is going to pretend the ravens simply have better scouts than everyone else because if other teams really thought that, they'd just throw more money at them and hire them away.

[The Raven]

Basically scouts are like dogs in a hunt. they focus in on the animal the hunter may not see, and flush him out. But nobody considers them the ones pulling the trigger and most are pretty fungible. Nobody is going to pretend the ravens simply have better scouts than everyone else because if other teams really thought that, they'd just throw more money at them and hire them away.

 

I like that analogy for this!

[omar586]

It was ok. Not as good as the 2011 or 2010 team. Flacco got lucky and cashed in. Ozzie has always been a bargain hunter and hes got a great track record in the draft in general. However since 2009 hes not been that good. The 2012 team wasnt that talented but everyone played out of their minds in the playoffs.

 

The best ravens team Ive seen was the 2006 team. We just didnt catch lightening in the playoffs.

 

really?! if those teams were so good they would've won the SB, so the '12 team was good , they won it all.

[hn68wb4]

I think our recent draft history is up for debate

 

From our 2008 draft, only Flacco and Rice remain. 

From our 2009 draft, only Webb remains. Kruger was good but he's gone. Oher sucked and is now gone.

From our 2010 draft, only Pitta remains. Kindle busted. Dickson and Cody could be gone in FA, and they underperformed. Harewood is gone.

From our 2011 draft, only Doss and Anthony Allen is gone. This was probably our best draft in a while. Jimmy, Torrey, Reid, McPhee, Chykie, and Tyrod are still with us.

From our 2012 draft, Upshaw, KO, Pierce, Gino, Asa, and Tyson remain. Another solid draft class, but we've already lost two of them.

And from 2013, we still have everyone except Marc Anthony. 

 

We've been good since 2011, but 08-10 were not as good draft classes as some think. From those classes, we really only got eight quality guys, and of those, two are gone, and two more might be gone soon. 

I dont think its fair to go all the way back and use what players are left to judge success, how many teams still have players from 2008/09? not many

from 2008 - Zbi was a pretty decent player, solid depth. Cousins is still in the league. and Nakamura got a payday to go to Carolina and was good on ST and safety depth

2009 - Oher gets a bad rap on this board, he didnt suck, he was servicable. Worthy of a 1st? not in hindsight, but he was a good servicable starter here, if you are going to say Zuttah was a good pickup ranked 22 in the league then Oher was ok, Zuttah is servicable just like Oher was, are they superstars? no, but they remove the need at the position or at least lessen the need

2010 - easily our worst draft, maybe in the history of this franchise, although i still dont think that its fair to say that Kindle was a bad pick, he had a horrible injury off the field that more or less ended his career, he was a good prospect and who knows, maybe he would have been good had he not fallen down those stairs, he was certainly good before the injury. I dont think it was a "bad pick", more a series of unfortunate circumstances that severely limited what he could do, a skull fracture is nothing to write off as an easy injury to come back from

[K-Dog]

Nope we do.. Ozzie reads the forum

Quality

[ellicottraven]

Thank you for the link, PFR is even awesome enough to tell you when the players career stopped, just scrolling through...

Jeff Mitchell, Edwin Mulitalo, Brandon Stokley, AD, Casey Rabach, Ed Hartwell, Chester Taylor, Dave Zastudil + Sam Koch (if you want to count specialists), Jarret Johnson, Ovie Mughelli, Aubrayo Franklin, Tony Pashos, Jason Brown, Derek Anderson (did his best stuff away from us), Dawan Landry, LeRon McClain, Marshal Yanda, Lardarius Webb, etc, etc

That's not even mentioning UDFA players and we all know the gems we've gotten from that.

Wasn't James Harrison an UDFA picked by the Ravens that was cut by the Ravens later??

[berad]

Wasn't James Harrison an UDFA picked by the Ravens that was cut by the Ravens later??

Yes he was at one point, he spent a lot of time on and off the Steelers roster as a UDFA and in NFL Europe