Jacoby/Tomlin: Steelers won't lose draft pick

[Militant X 1]

Tape doesn't lie...usually...about skill, or success, or movement, or athleticism. But can it tell us what the player on the tape is feeling? Or thinking? Is he nervous? Anxious? Cocky and sure of himself? Is he proud? Is he a kind beneficent soul or a vile rotten creep? Can you "see" that on a tape or in a photo? Tape cannot, typically, tell us intent. Intent is not action or motion, it is thought. What were Tomlin's intentions? What were his thought? If you can see intent on a tape then you have some wild mystical powers beyond the human norm.

 

Lets say that the tape was exactly the same, exactly the same, except it was Harbaugh and Mendenhal on it rather than Tomlin and Jones. Would you ever believe that John Harbaugh was capable of willfully trying to cheat in that way? Or would you defend him as the decent upstanding man that you and I know him to be? Would your opinion of the event be colored by your opinion of Harbaugh?

 

 Not that any of this matters anyway. This discussion is an exercise in futility since the league ruled and the verdict is that Tomlin did it accidentally, regardless of what you or I believe. It is now historical fact.

 

I'd like to "think" that Harbaugh wouldn't do that but like you....I don't "know" Harbaugh personally so I wouldn't put it passed him either.  My opinion of this event isn't colored whatsoever.  The tape don't lie!  And determining "intent" is not as difficult as many make it out to be imo.  Based upon the evidence or what is clearly "seen" a judgment can be made as to what one's "intent" was.  What is futile is whether it is a historical fact or not that doesn't mean it's right.  Hell!  There are tons of historical facts that are incorrect.  Add this one to that list.  But...think what you will and I'll do the same!

 

#Mili

[jaege]

but see in that video ray was in the zone of the play....and looking at the ball carrier....so ward took him out....not random....what if the steeler got out of that tackle ray would be the best guy to get him

 

 

Oh, I see now. ALL of the players that voted against the poor persecuted Steeler are biased. Well, I am glad you cleared that up for us. Now it all makes sense. And you DID imply that your opinion is superior to all the players and writers who voted against poor little Hiney, numerous times throughout this thread. The fact that you claim the ubiquitous "they" are biased, implies that you think that you are not. Read those words carefully. I am not saying you said your opinion was more accurate, you implied it. And many times. Typical Steeler fan superiority complex.

 

And you are claiming that there is some official consensus, that someone actually polled all the players and the results were as you stated them? Why has no one else ever heard of this poll? Why is there no evidence of it on the web? Sorry. You cannot come here making such broad statements without proof. Put up or shut up.

 

The players vote is hardly an "entertainment magazine". What about that? Do you contend that they have no place in deciding that another play plays the game dirty? Oh that's right. You already answered that. They are all against him. I forgot.

 

As far as Ray, I never said he didn't play dirty on occasion. He was flagged a number of times over his career. I remember a few questionable hits that he layed onto some poor slob on the field. Loved them, but more than a few could easily be construed as dirty.

[jaege]

I'd like to "think" that Harbaugh wouldn't do that but like you....I don't "know" Harbaugh personally so I wouldn't put it passed him either.  My opinion of this event isn't colored whatsoever.  The tape don't lie!  And determining "intent" is not as difficult as many make it out to be imo.  Based upon the evidence or what is clearly "seen" a judgment can be made as to what one's "intent" was.  What is futile is whether it is a historical fact or not that doesn't mean it's right.  Hell!  There are tons of historical facts that are incorrect.  Add this one to that list.  But...think what you will and I'll do the same!

 

#Mili

 

 

I concede. Obviously there are a number of fans on this site that have the capability to view a photo or piece of tape and through it precisely read with no margin of error, a persons intent, emotional state, thoughts, hopes, dreams, aspirations and whether or not they are hungry. Probably they have extraterrestrial ancestors or something.

 

I, being a mere human, do not possess that capability. At least not enough so that I can accurately make a decision as to a persons worth.

[Militant X 1]

I concede. Obviously there are a number of fans on this site that have the capability to view a photo or piece of tape and through it precisely read with no margin of error, a persons intent, emotional state, thoughts, hopes, dreams, aspirations and whether or not they are hungry. Probably they have extraterrestrial ancestors or something.

 

I, being a mere human, do not possess that capability. At least not enough so that I can accurately make a decision as to a persons worth.

 

Even on the show "To Catch a Predator" they catch these cats that show up at a house to have sex with under age girls.  Their "intent" to do so was determined by their actions (i.e. their online conversations, driving hours to the location and bringing inappropriate items such as beer and condoms etc.).  When caught...they try to weasel out of it and say; "I wasn't going to do anything.  I just came to meet a new friend etc."  Chris Hanson then says; "What do you think would have happened IF I wasn't here?"  Of course they quickly spout out "Nothing!"  C'mon man!  Keep it real!  Their "intent" to have sex was very clear based upon the evidence.  This Tomlin piece is not different to me with the evidence that I see!  Now you can gracefully concede and I'll do the same.  Peeeeeeace!  lol!

 

#Mili

[0_o]

What's to debate? Intent? Why is intent even relevant? Tomlin was standing on the field during an on going play. Fact. He impeded the progress of an opposing opponent during a game. Fact. He was aware of his actions at the time he was doing them because he was staring at himself on a 100 ft. High Definition Jumbo-tron. Fact.

 

If Jacoby Jones collided with him and injured himself, Mike Tomlin would've have been suspended and heavily penalized. His actions blatantly defied the spirit of sportsmanship and endangered the safety of a player while the game was in play. The fact that his actions didn't change the outcome of the game doesn't change the fact that he still committed those actions. If you don't successfully murder someone the law still holds you accountable and sends you to jail for attempted murder. 

 

The Steelers "should be" sanctioned with a draft pick to send a resounding message throughout the league that interfering with live action from any coach or head coach and blatantly defying the spirit of sportsmanship, will result in dire consequences. Nothing more crippling then docking a franchise with a future draft pick. It's one thing for a trainer to be stupid enough to trip a player on the sideline...it's another for a coach or a head coach to physically try and alter a game. Why? Because they represent their franchise and the NFL more so than any other member of the team and should be held to a higher standard.

 

Just because something "didn't" happen doesn't change the fact that you tried to make it happen. If Mike Tomlin didn't "try to interfere" then his ignorance of his whereabouts on the field during a live game need to equally be made an example of as to not be an excuse for anyone else in the future.

 

The safety of a player should never have to come into question because of the actions of a Head Coach. That's inexcusable. 

[SteelersProphet]

Oh, I see now. ALL of the players that voted against the poor persecuted Steeler are biased. Well, I am glad you cleared that up for us. Now it all makes sense. And you DID imply that your opinion is superior to all the players and writers who voted against poor little Hiney, numerous times throughout this thread. The fact that you claim the ubiquitous "they" are biased, implies that you think that you are not. Read those words carefully. I am not saying you said your opinion was more accurate, you implied it. And many times. Typical Steeler fan superiority complex.

 

And you are claiming that there is some official consensus, that someone actually polled all the players and the results were as you stated them? Why has no one else ever heard of this poll? Why is there no evidence of it on the web? Sorry. You cannot come here making such broad statements without proof. Put up or shut up.

 

The players vote is hardly an "entertainment magazine". What about that? Do you contend that they have no place in deciding that another play plays the game dirty? Oh that's right. You already answered that. They are all against him. I forgot.

 

As far as Ray, I never said he didn't play dirty on occasion. He was flagged a number of times over his career. I remember a few questionable hits that he layed onto some poor slob on the field. Loved them, but more than a few could easily be construed as dirty.

the only way i implied my opinion is superior is because its my opinion and of course im going to think mine is right....thats why I chose it to be mine

 

and i said biased in regards to the reason they dont like him......i agree he was a very unpopular player among defenders im not disputing that........but i am disputing that he is dirty just really physical. and yes sports illustrated is a magazine so i dont know what your problem with that is

 

and this consensus im talking about is just a number of interviews and articles over the years have players speaking against chop blocks.....thats all im saying........you seem to see things in what i say that im not saying.

 

and i like ray lewis.....i dont consider him cheap at all

[Tank 92]

the only way i implied my opinion is superior is because its my opinion and of course im going to think mine is right....thats why I chose it to be mine

and i said biased in regards to the reason they dont like him......i agree he was a very unpopular player among defenders im not disputing that........but i am disputing that he is dirty just really physical. and yes sports illustrated is a magazine so i dont know what your problem with that is

and this consensus im talking about is just a number of interviews and articles over the years have players speaking against chop blocks.....thats all im saying........you seem to see things in what i say that im not saying.

and i like ray lewis.....i dont consider him cheap at all

chop blocks? I never heard that criticism of scum bag ward. What I heard about, read about and watched over the years were blind side hits away from the play that had no effect other than to show that he was a scum bag and a truly classless player. I've always respected the Steeler's way of playing the game, but not that piece of garbage.

[Moderator 3]

Final warning: this thread is supposed to be about the Tomlin incident.

[jaege]

Even on the show "To Catch a Predator" they catch these cats that show up at a house to have sex with under age girls.  Their "intent" to do so was determined by their actions (i.e. their online conversations, driving hours to the location and bringing inappropriate items such as beer and condoms etc.).  When caught...they try to weasel out of it and say; "I wasn't going to do anything.  I just came to meet a new friend etc."  Chris Hanson then says; "What do you think would have happened IF I wasn't here?"  Of course they quickly spout out "Nothing!"  C'mon man!  Keep it real!  Their "intent" to have sex was very clear based upon the evidence.  This Tomlin piece is not different to me with the evidence that I see!  Now you can gracefully concede and I'll do the same.  Peeeeeeace!  lol!

 

#Mili

 

 

I have conceded everyones superior nearly supernatural perceptive capabilities. What more do you want? You win. What? Do you prefer spidey senses? Frankly, I am weary of this topic. I have a better chance of logically debating the concrete blocks on my driveway.

[ravensdfan]

I concede. Obviously there are a number of fans on this site that have the capability to view a photo or piece of tape and through it precisely read with no margin of error, a persons intent, emotional state, thoughts, hopes, dreams, aspirations and whether or not they are hungry. Probably they have extraterrestrial ancestors or something.

 

I, being a mere human, do not possess that capability. At least not enough so that I can accurately make a decision as to a persons worth.

 

Yep. I always knew just watching the game that B-Mac was hungry.

 

You're talking definitive proof, we're talking logical conclusions. Two very different things. You can absolutely by watching the entire thing unfold come to the logical conclusion that it was an intentional action even though you might not be able to prove it in a court of law.

[jaege]

Yep. I always knew just watching the game that B-Mac was hungry.

 

You're talking definitive proof, we're talking logical conclusions. Two very different things. You can absolutely by watching the entire thing unfold come to the logical conclusion that it was an intentional action even though you might not be able to prove it in a court of law.

 

 

 

Finally, someone who actually understands! There is hope for humanity! Rationality is not dead! Huzzah!

 

Although I would say a reasonable conclusion rather than logical. Arguably we can assume that the rules committee did not come to an illogical conclusion when they chose to believe Tomlin. Not completely unreasonable either, just perhaps unlikely.