Jacoby/Tomlin: Steelers won't lose draft pick

[jaege]

I disagree!  I've watch that game and play over and over and over and over.  To me, it is clear that Tomlin knew exactly what he was doing and where he was standing.  From my perspective of the clip; He takes a side-step ending in a military like stance (both legs closely together) with his right foot actually touching the field while Jacoby is running.  Then, as Jacoby gets close he takes a subtle look over his shoulder in that direction.  Then, he takes a step to his left as to avoid the contact.  Now, that is what "I" see.

 

#Mili

 

 

Sorry. That is an opinion based upon your perspective. It is not irrefutable proof. I am certain we can go to a Steelers board and find just as many opinions that are the exact opposite. Who is to say they are not correct?

 

But you did couch your opinion with the statement "to me". I do not refute your opinion of the event. I am only pointing out it is not proof positive.

[SteelersProphet]

So, you are claiming he was unfairly judged to be dirty by his fellow players from numerous teams over his entire career, because he was playing cleanly? There are hundreds, if not thousands of players that have never been voted as being dirty. Many in or considered to be getting into the HOF. Since they were not voted as being dirty can we assume they were not "doing every legal thing they could to win"?

 

 

When you stretch that far does it hurt or do you practice yoga or something?

no thats not what im saying at all. Ward was a physical player no doubt, he was very competitive and loved to play football. And he excelled at blocking defensive players, yes sometimes when they were not looking. should that be legal... NO. Was it legal at the time...YES. So if your a super competitive man who loves to play physical, and its legal to block potential tacklers he is going to do it....Because it helped us win and it was legal.

 

Its like Chop Blocks, Ravens use them dont they.....many defenders consider them cheap and Dirty.....but guess what its legal so Play Ball.

 

Sorry. That is an opinion based upon your perspective. It is not irrefutable proof. I am certain we can go to a Steelers board and find just as many opinions that are the exact opposite. Who is to say they are not correct?

 

But you did couch your opinion with the statement "to me". I do not refute your opinion of the event. I am only pointing out it is not proof positive.

You can find one right here

[Militant X 1]

Sorry. That is an opinion based upon your perspective. It is not irrefutable proof. I am certain we can go to a Steelers board and find just as many opinions that are the exact opposite. Who is to say they are not correct?

 

But you did couch your opinion with the statement "to me". I do not refute your opinion of the event. I am only pointing out it is not proof positive.

 

Interestingly enough, there is a saying that states; "The tape don't lie!"  We constantly say that about a player to analyze his skills as to what he can and can't do and then formulate our judgment of that player based on that....what he has put on tape!  Well, there is also tape on Tomlin's actions in that game and once again; "to me" after watching it and analyzing it; my thoughts on it remain the same.  No amount spin, dialogue or semantics will change that!  Had that been Harbaugh that pulled that stunt, I'm pretty sure that that Steeler board that you mentioned would see what I see and feel the same way.

 

#Mili

[jaege]

no thats not what im saying at all. Ward was a physical player no doubt, he was very competitive and loved to play football. And he excelled at blocking defensive players, yes sometimes when they were not looking. should that be legal... NO. Was it legal at the time...YES. So if your a super competitive man who loves to play physical, and its legal to block potential tacklers he is going to do it....Because it helped us win and it was legal.

 

Its like Chop Blocks, Ravens use them dont they.....many defenders consider them cheap and Dirty.....but guess what its legal so Play Ball.

 

You can find one right here

 

I am not following your point exactly. Are you trying to refute that he was voted the dirtiest player in 2009 or that he is still on the top 12 list of all time? I will concede he played legally over all, since he didn't have an over abundance of flags tossed at him. (personally I think he was good at hitting when no one, including the refs, was looking) I will concede that he played tough (sort of, I guess) What does that have to do with him being dirty? Dirty isn't illegal nor is it wimpy. It is dirty.

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

Mike Tomlin lying about being on Jumbotron at M&T:

The same video screen showed Tomlin smiling after Jones' return. When asked about it, the coach said, "They always like to show me on the Jumbotron here in Baltimore. I appreciate that." 

 

In fact when asked about showing Tomlin, M&T media staff stated that their policy is not to show opposing teams and coaches on the jumbotron.  The reasons have to do with respect and fans not wanting to see the other team being highlighted.  Funny, that old once a liar, always a liar comes to mind.

 

 

Now back to waiting for that list from the misplaced stealer fan..........

 

 

"My descriptions of my actions on that play are a lot of things - embarrassing, inexcusable, a blunder would be a myriad of things I use to describe it." Mike Tomlin (a cheating Stealer)

 

Glad none of our coaches ever had to make that kind of statement.  Seems that integrity and fortitude of character go a long way!

[SteelersProphet]

I am not following your point exactly. Are you trying to refute that he was voted the dirtiest player in 2009 or that he is still on the top 12 list of all time? I will concede he played legally over all, since he didn't have an over abundance of flags tossed at him. (personally I think he was good at hitting when no one, including the refs, was looking) I will concede that he played tough (sort of, I guess) What does that have to do with him being dirty? Dirty isn't illegal nor is it wimpy. It is dirty.

I dont care players voted him dirty.....i explained they feel he cheap shotted them by hitting them when they werent looking or in a way they are taught not to hit......But playing dirty is if he intentionally wanted them injured or if he did an illegal move that hurt them when the refs looked away....something to that effect but thats not the case, did you not see my chop block analogy.....i refer you to that......players today consider that dirty and players who do it as being dirty....i dont, because its a legal move...the ravens agree they do it alot

[ravensdfan]

I dont care players voted him dirty.....i explained they feel he cheap shotted them by hitting them when they werent looking or in a way they are taught not to hit......But playing dirty is if he intentionally wanted them injured or if he did an illegal move that hurt them when the refs looked away....something to that effect but thats not the case, did you not see my chop block analogy.....i refer you to that......players today consider that dirty and players who do it as being dirty....i dont, because its a legal move...the ravens agree they do it alot

 

Players have respect for hard hitters and toughness. If they vote you dirty - you're dirty.

 

We're not talking about fans here where it would be skewed due to loyalties & rivalries. We're talking about players.

[jaege]

Interestingly enough, there is a saying that states; "The tape don't lie!"  We constantly say that about a player to analyze his skills as to what he can and can't do and then formulate our judgment of that player based on that....what he has put on tape!  Well, there is also tape on Tomlin's actions in that game and once again; "to me" after watching it and analyzing it; my thoughts on it remain the same.  No amount spin, dialogue or semantics will change that!  Had that been Harbaugh that pulled that stunt, I'm pretty sure that that Steeler board that you mentioned would see what I see and feel the same way.

 

#Mili

 

Tape doesn't lie...usually...about skill, or success, or movement, or athleticism. But can it tell us what the player on the tape is feeling? Or thinking? Is he nervous? Anxious? Cocky and sure of himself? Is he proud? Is he a kind beneficent soul or a vile rotten creep? Can you "see" that on a tape or in a photo? Tape cannot, typically, tell us intent. Intent is not action or motion, it is thought. What were Tomlin's intentions? What were his thought? If you can see intent on a tape then you have some wild mystical powers beyond the human norm.

 

Lets say that the tape was exactly the same, exactly the same, except it was Harbaugh and Mendenhal on it rather than Tomlin and Jones. Would you ever believe that John Harbaugh was capable of willfully trying to cheat in that way? Or would you defend him as the decent upstanding man that you and I know him to be? Would your opinion of the event be colored by your opinion of Harbaugh?

 

 Not that any of this matters anyway. This discussion is an exercise in futility since the league ruled and the verdict is that Tomlin did it accidentally, regardless of what you or I believe. It is now historical fact.

[SteelersProphet]

Players have respect for hard hitters and toughness. If they vote you dirty - you're dirty.

 

We're not talking about fans here where it would be skewed due to loyalties & rivalries. We're talking about players.

how about the chop block........a few years ago i remember the steelers defenders complaining that the ravens O-line was using the chop block and it injures defenders.....most defenders agree chop block = dirty.......so under your logic the ravens coaching staff was teaching dirty tactics and thus are dirty

[ravensdfan]

how about the chop block........a few years ago i remember the steelers defenders complaining that the ravens O-line was using the chop block and it injures defenders.....most defenders agree chop block = dirty.......so under your logic the ravens coaching staff was teaching dirty tactics and thus are dirty

 

Um..no. I've not heard the Ravens voted the dirtiest team by the other players. So doesn't apply. I've only heard the Steelers whine about the Ravens line as well. I never heard any other team say anything about it.

[SteelersProphet]

Um..no. I've not heard the Ravens voted the dirtiest team by the other players. So doesn't apply. I've only heard the Steelers whine about the Ravens line as well. I never heard any other team say anything about it.

they complain about the chop block in general.....its a fact the consensus is its dirty......the steelers do it now too so i dont care but the point is its the same as the Ward rule

[jaege]

I dont care players voted him dirty.....i explained they feel he cheap shotted them by hitting them when they werent looking or in a way they are taught not to hit......But playing dirty is if he intentionally wanted them injured or if he did an illegal move that hurt them when the refs looked away....something to that effect but thats not the case, did you not see my chop block analogy.....i refer you to that......players today consider that dirty and players who do it as being dirty....i dont, because its a legal move...the ravens agree they do it a lot

 

For not caring that he was voted dirty, you sure are spending a lot of time defending him. Just saying.

 

By the way, your definition of dirty is completely and totally irrelevant. As is mine actually. It is the players that get to decide what they consider dirty. At least as far as that vote went. They are the ones playing the game after all, so they are a little closer to the dirt than we are. Like that definition or not, he IS a dirty player according to his peers.

 

He is actually #30 of the top 50 dirtiest players of any sport of all time as voted by sports writers and casters. Those are not other players, those are fans. So not only do his peers think he is dirty but the fans do too.

 

I do not see why you keep bringing up the Ravens and chop blocking. No one was voted as dirty because of that. Sure there are players that consider it dirty, but then there are players that consider sacking the QB dirty. ie Lady Brady.The majority has never spoken on either issue.

 

 

What's the Ward rule?

 

Can you reference the article that shows this "consensus" or that most players consider chop blocking by the Ravens being dirty. I haven't been able to find it online.

[ravensdfan]

they complain about the chop block in general.....its a fact the consensus is its dirty......the steelers do it now too so i dont care but the point is its the same as the Ward rule

 

Yes they complain about the chop block in general and every NFL team uses it. They don't say "oh those dirty Ravens".

 

No other player sets out to hit players to injure them like Ward did his entire career.

 

To get back on track here:

 

Tomlin walks around everyone to get to that spot on the field. He then is watching this HUGE screen as the play unfolds but ironically has no idea that play is heading in his direction.

 

As Jacoby nears him, he sneaks a peek over his shoulder and waits until Jacoby is almost on top of him to attempt to make a move. Then he does not jump OFF the field at first, but ONTO the field.

 

After the play, when they show it on the big screen, he has a chessire cat grin on his face.

 

Yep, intentional all the way.

[Willbacker]

Yes they complain about the chop block in general and every NFL team uses it. They don't say "oh those dirty Ravens".

 

No other player sets out to hit players to injure them like Ward did his entire career.

 

To get back on track here:

 

Tomlin walks around everyone to get to that spot on the field. He then is watching this HUGE screen as the play unfolds but ironically has no idea that play is heading in his direction.

 

As Jacoby nears him, he sneaks a peek over his shoulder and waits until Jacoby is almost on top of him to attempt to make a move. Then he does not jump OFF the field at first, but ONTO the field.

 

After the play, when they show it on the big screen, he has a chessire cat grin on his face.

 

Yep, intentional all the way.

Ward taught him that. Lol.

 

As for Ward a lot of those cheap shots were taken away from the play. Thats why he's considered dirty.

[ravensdfan]

Ward taught him that. Lol.

 

As for Ward a lot of those cheap shots were taken away from the play. Thats why he's considered dirty.

 

Yes, I know that and you know that but our Steeler fan visitor will never admit that lol

[SteelersProphet]

For not caring that he was voted dirty, you sure are spending a lot of time defending him. Just saying.

I dont think he is dirty......you seem to think this sports illustrated vote means anything official...officialy he is not dirty because it was legal

 

By the way, your definition of dirty is completely and totally irrelevant. As is mine actually. It is the players that get to decide what they consider dirty. At least as far as that vote went. They are the ones playing the game after all, so they are a little closer to the dirt than we are. Like that definition or not, he IS a dirty player according to his peers. Tons of physical players who are in the hall of fame were labeled dirty because players dont like to get hurt.

 

He is actually #30 of the top 50 dirtiest players of any sport of all time as voted by sports writers and casters. Those are not other players, those are fans. So not only do his peers think he is dirty but the fans do too. Also not anything official thats all perception which ive talked about

 

I do not see why you keep bringing up the Ravens and chop blocking. No one was voted as dirty because of that. Sure there are players that consider it dirty, but then there are players that consider sacking the QB dirty. ie Lady Brady.The majority has never spoken on either issue.

not the ravens alone.....its an example of a rule like the blocking rule ward took advantage of that the players consider dirty.

 

 

What's the Ward rule? its the rule that made what he does illegal

 

Can you reference the article that shows this "consensus" or that most players consider chop blocking by the Ravens being dirty. I haven't been able to find it online. not easily without searching for one but theres been topics about it the last couple years

 

 

Yes they complain about the chop block in general and every NFL team uses it. They don't say "oh those dirty Ravens".No because unlike wards blocking everyone does it now"

 

No other player sets out to hit players to injure them like Ward did his entire career. This isnt true....he did not try to hurt them

 

To get back on track here:

 

Tomlin walks around everyone to get to that spot on the field. He then is watching this HUGE screen as the play unfolds but ironically has no idea that play is heading in his direction.

 

As Jacoby nears him, he sneaks a peek over his shoulder and waits until Jacoby is almost on top of him to attempt to make a move. Then he does not jump OFF the field at first, but ONTO the field.

 

After the play, when they show it on the big screen, he has a chessire cat grin on his face.

 

Yep, intentional all the way.

it was an accident with tomlin.......but who cares it didnt effect anything and he got punished

[jaege]

Yes, I know that and you know that but our Steeler fan visitor will never admit that lol

 

 

Our Steeler fan visitor is in denial.

[SteelersProphet]

Ward taught him that. Lol.

 

As for Ward a lot of those cheap shots were taken away from the play. Thats why he's considered dirty.

if the player could run in the way of the runner he took them out....he didnt just pick a random guy.....show me that footage

[berad]

if the player could run in the way of the runner he took them out....he didnt just pick a random guy.....show me that footage

 

 

He didn't choose a random guy, he chose the wrong guy lol

[jaege]

it was an accident with tomlin.......but who cares it didnt effect anything and he got punished

 

 

 

Firstly, there is no official definition of dirty. And who are you that you get to decide what is and is not dirty. Hate to break it to you but you're not any more special, than anyone else on this board. How is your opinion, that of a fan, more relevant than the collective body of players that actually play the game.

 

Secondly my question regarding your "consensus" or "most of the players" was a joke, since no such consensus exists and you hardly speak for "most of the players".

 

The actual deciding body for who is or is not dirty, THE PLAYERS, voted him to be dirty. He is on the OFFICIAL list of the top 50 dirtiest people in sports. It is an official list, at least as official as this type of thing will ever get.

 

Get over your man-crush. Or embrace the fact that your boy is dirty according to the only opinions that count.

 

You know that Ray Lewis was on that top 50 list too. You don't see me or anyone else here whining over it.

[SteelersProphet]

 

He didn't choose a random guy, he chose the wrong guy lol

 

but see in that video ray was in the zone of the play....and looking at the ball carrier....so ward took him out....not random....what if the steeler got out of that tackle ray would be the best guy to get him

Firstly, there is no official definition of dirty. And who are you that you get to decide what is and is not dirty. Hate to break it to you but you're not any more special, than anyone else on this board. How is your opinion, that of a fan, more relevant than the collective body of players that actually play the game. Im not saying it is......im saying i think they are biased

 

Secondly my question regarding your "consensus" or "most of the players" was a joke, since no such consensus exists and you hardly speak for "most of the players". your wrong on this but it doesnt matter

 

The actual deciding body for who is or is not dirty, THE PLAYERS, voted him to be dirty. He is on the OFFICIAL list of the top 50 dirtiest people in sports. It is an official list, at least as official as this type of thing will ever get. Its not official.....not in any way shape or form....its an entertainment magazine asking people questions at the pro bowl

 

Get over your man-crush. Or embrace the fact that your boy is dirty according to the only opinions that count.

 

You know that Ray Lewis was on that top 50 list too. You don't see me or anyone else here whining over it. See he isnt dirty either he is physical....that should prove it to you.....ray is the man, and i consider him a class act

[berad]

but see in that video ray was in the zone of the play....and looking at the ball carrier....so ward took him out....not random....what if the steeler got out of that tackle ray would be the best guy to get him

 

DeAngelo Tyson or Lardarius Webb would have gotten there before him but, regardless, Moore was being tackled (some 30ft away) by two guys when Ward hit Lewis from behind.

[Sami84]

who cares. Whats done is done. This sport is never going to be without its dodgy side. 

 

Had enough of pointless threads. Thats the problem with the NFL offseason. ITS TOO DAMN LONG

[SteelersProphet]

DeAngelo Tyson or Lardarius Webb would have gotten there before him but, regardless, Moore was being tackled (some 30ft away) by two guys when Ward hit Lewis from behind.

i guess its all up to interpretation but he would pick a guy he could hit to clear potential space regardless of what moore would have done....because you never know when one less guy is the difference in a game

[Moderator 2]

it was an accident with tomlin.......but who cares it didnt effect anything and he got punished

Punished Really???? His 10'dollar fine. Geez cut me a break

[ravensdfan]

i guess its all up to interpretation but he would pick a guy he could hit to clear potential space regardless of what moore would have done....because you never know when one less guy is the difference in a game

 

Well, follow these steps:

 

Remove the Steeler shades.

Watch vid again.

See Moore way AWAY from the play, already stopped PRIOR to Ward taking his cheap shot at Ray.

[AsianRice]

Tomlin Stealers Cheater....simple as that....

 

What ticked me off the most is Tomlin cheater apologized to the media who has nothing to do with the game instead to the guy who cheated him out for a TD loss: Jacoby and the rest of the Ravens nation.

 

The dude is outright disrespectful to the Ravens organization.....

 

PS:Tomlin cheaters has never gotten a real punishment from the NFL period......

[AsianRice]

Punished Really???? His 10'dollar fine. Geez cut me a break

I wish there is a filter kick in the forum for the Stealers infiltrators.....

[Moderator 2]

I wish there is a filter kick in the forum for the Stealers infiltrators.....

Anyone is allowed to post as long as they follow the rules and I will leave it at that.

[Tank 92]

Is there someone here actually trying to defend the guy that was perennially voted by his peers as the "dirtiest player in the NFL"?

 

Just for old times sake and fond memories.............