Dean Pees

[jdynamite]

The defense showed great improvement last year, the one complaint is working on end of half defense ( not giving up back-breaking scores before half time), and game-ending drives in the 4th quarter ( a drive where we're down points seemingly with some momentum to make a comeback but then can't stop a first down to get the ball back. Or we score take a lead then the defense gives it back. ).

At times it's understandable. The defense might have a great game for over half the game with the offense spurting along, then a turnover puts the defense with a short field.

Ex. Green Bay game. An entire half of pure defensive struggles, offense can't move the ball to save their lives. Finally defense gives up a score, then the offense either goes 3 and out or scores gives us "hope", and if the defense that carried us the whole game gives up another score it creates that well they gave up the game couldn't get one stop for the offense. When in reality the offense never helped them from the beginning.

[ravensdfan]

T

 

It's funny to me that with you it seems stats only matter when you want them to matter, cause when debating Joep the stats always seem skewed against him, but now the stats are the only tell tale sign of if the defense improved. They were better, period.

The offense was attrocious and put them in bad positions numerous times. The Ravens gave up the ball the 9th most times in the league last year and were 5th worst in 3 and outs. Thats not exactly setting the defense up for success. I know what I saw and what it was, was an improved defense fieled last year, having to make up for a significantly weaker offense.


In 12 they were 9th worst in 3 and outs(still bad) and 3rd best giveaways(only 2 team gave the ball up less times than us). Hmmm. I wonder if that makes a difference.

The 13 squad also allowed the 10th most points off turnovers.

If Pees' job is in question, no one should feel safe.

 

Well I guessed you just missed all those 4th quarter meltdowns when they couldn't get off the field. This defense gave up the 4th most points in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The 2012 squad got off the field when it mattered, the 2013 squad couldn't do it to save their life.

 

TOP for the season ended up split evenly between us & our opponents so the "they were so tired" excuse doesn't hold up either.

 

I don't know why everyone gives the defense a pass around here - you'd think it would be the opposite when we've seen what an actual strong defense looks like for years. I guess average passes the test now.

[redrum52]

T

Well I guessed you just missed all those 4th quarter meltdowns when they couldn't get off the field. This defense gave up the 4th most points in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The 2012 squad got off the field when it mattered, the 2013 squad couldn't do it to save their life.

TOP for the season ended up split evenly between us & our opponents so the "they were so tired" excuse doesn't hold up either.

I don't know why everyone gives the defense a pass around here - you'd think it would be the opposite when we've seen what an actual strong defense looks like for years. I guess average passes the test now.

The 12 unit also played with a much better offense. An offense who had less 3 and outs and turned the ball over significantly less times than the 13 unit. The 13 unit also dealt with a team that gave up 92 points off turnovers, which was good for 10th worse in the league while the year before they only gave up 61 off turnovers. If this defense was "average" as you say, then what was our offense considered to you? You must be the only person who believes there was no improvement on the defensive side. You're entitled to your own opinion though, even if it's wrong.

Also, TOP means nothing without points, especially when you're terrible with ball security. If it wasn't for the defense keeping things close, there wouldn't have been so many close game's that resulted in 4th quarter collapses. The offense sucked last year, but I have good feeling that will change and people will see how much better this defense is.

[TXRavensFan]

I don't think it's a make or break year for Pees but let's clear up a few things.

 

The defense did not "improve" from the previous year. Their ranking improved, yes, which only means more teams performed worse than they did ( or fewer teams performed better, however you want to slice it.)

 

2012 D stats:

 

21.5 pts a game/350 yds a game/ 228 yds passing/122 yds rushing

 

2013 stats:

 

22 pts a game (actually worse than 2012)/ 335 yds a game (15 yds better)/230 passing yds (worse)/105 rushing yds (17 yds better)

 

comparitively speaking, the defense played pretty much the same except for their 4th quarter meltdowns in 2013, something the 2012 squad did not do.

 

The 2013 squad also managed over 200 more yds in penalties. 

 

So no Pees didn't do all that great, the defense remained status quo from the previous year except they gave up at the end of games and committed more penalties.

 

edit: to answer the snap count question:

 

In 2012 the offense ran 1134 snaps the defense ran 1107 (give or take a snap or two).

In 2013 the offense ran 1205 snaps the defense ran 1152 (give or take a snap or two).

 

 

LOL@ the neg. All facts people, get over it.

 

Actually, your post is as misleading as just looking at straight rankings, which you do not lend enough credence. Looking at the raw stats is also meaningless without looking at the teams against which they played last year (and i would also suggest league averages as well)

 

For instance, what unit played better:

 

(1) 21.5 pts a game/350 yds a game/ 228 yds passing/122 yds rushing with a league offensive avg of 25 ppg/350 ypg/235 ypg p/115 ypg r

 

or

 

(2) 22 pts a game / 335 yds a game /230 passing yds /105 rushing yds with league offensive avg of 30 ppg/380 ypg/265 ypg p/115 ypg r

 

Even though the two stat lines are almost the same, I'd say with certainty that team two had a much better year. Of course my numbers are made up for illustrative purposes, but the point still stands.

[ravensdfan]

The 12 unit also played with a much better offense. An offense who had less 3 and outs and turned the ball over significantly less times than the 13 unit. The 13 unit also dealt with a team that gave up 92 points off turnovers, which was good for 10th worse in the league while the year before they only gave up 61 off turnovers. If this defense was "average" as you say, then what was our offense considered to you? You must be the only person who believes there was no improvement on the defensive side. You're entitled to your own opinion though, even if it's wrong.

Also, TOP means nothing without points, especially when you're terrible with ball security. If it wasn't for the defense keeping things close, there wouldn't have been so many close game's that resulted in 4th quarter collapses. The offense sucked last year, but I have good feeling that will change and people will see how much better this defense is.

 

Just because the offense was putrid does not upgrade the defensive play. Outside of the Buffalo game, where they got a pass for their 4th quarter failure because of all the turnovers by the offense, they had no excuses for their 4th quarter meltdowns. Nor for failing to get off the field more than one time in the first Steelers game.

 

I didn't say the defense was horrible, only average. The defensive play last year does not warrant the amount of gushing they are receiving in this thread and Pees doesn't warrant gushing at all.

 

Actually, your post is as misleading as just looking at straight rankings, which you do not lend enough credence. Looking at the raw stats is also meaningless without looking at the teams against which they played last year (and i would also suggest league averages as well)

 

For instance, what unit played better:

 

(1) 21.5 pts a game/350 yds a game/ 228 yds passing/122 yds rushing with a league offensive avg of 25 ppg/350 ypg/235 ypg p/115 ypg r

 

or

 

(2) 22 pts a game / 335 yds a game /230 passing yds /105 rushing yds with league offensive avg of 30 ppg/380 ypg/265 ypg p/115 ypg r

 

Even though the two stat lines are almost the same, I'd say with certainty that team two had a much better year. Of course my numbers are made up for illustrative purposes, but the point still stands.

 

Let's see - we face Big Ben every year(2) we faced Brady this year and the year before. We faced Manning this year and the year before. We faced Rivers in '12 but not in '13. About the only differential is Rodgers really when you look at talent and offensive production per team.

 

My point still stands.

[TXRavensFan]

Let's see - we face Big Ben every year(2) we faced Brady this year and the year before. We faced Manning this year and the year before. We faced Rivers in '12 but not in '13. About the only differential is Rodgers really when you look at talent and offensive production per team.

 

My point still stands.

 

Denver Broncos:

 

2012: 30.1 ppg / 397.9 ypg / 283.3 ypg p / 114.5 ypg r

 

2013: 37.9 ppg / 457.3 ypg / 340.2 ypg p / 117.1 ypg r

 

So, holding the Broncos to 300 yrds passing in 2012 means the same thing as holding them to 300 yrd passing in 2013?

 

My point stands

[display name]

In 2011, while Spangolu was the HC, St. Louis finished 26th in total defense. That should silence those who call for him to replace Pees.

Pees is no Rex Ryan or Chuck Pagano, but he's pretty good.

[ravensdfan]

Denver Broncos:

 

2012: 30.1 ppg / 397.9 ypg / 283.3 ypg p / 114.5 ypg r

 

2013: 37.9 ppg / 457.3 ypg / 340.2 ypg p / 117.1 ypg r

 

So, holding the Broncos to 300 yrds passing in 2012 means the same thing as holding them to 300 yrd passing in 2013?

 

My point stands

 

Except we didn't did we?

 

445 yds passing in 2013.

187 yds passing in 2012. 

 

Of course we gave up 160 yds rushing in 2012. Still overall we gave up 100 less yards in 2012 than 2013 versus Peyton.

 

Wow. You just made my point for me in a major fashion. Thanks!

[TXRavensFan]

Except we didn't did we?

445 yds passing in 2013.

187 yds passing in 2012.

Of course we gave up 160 yds rushing in 2012. Still overall we gave up 100 less yards in 2012 than 2013 versus Peyton.

Wow. You just made my point for me in a major fashion. Thanks!

Aside from the fact that your post did not address my point, you pretty much made mine - that equal stats from two different years do not necessarily mean equal performances, but thanks for playing

[redrum52]

Just because the offense was putrid does not upgrade the defensive play. Outside of the Buffalo game, where they got a pass for their 4th quarter failure because of all the turnovers by the offense, they had no excuses for their 4th quarter meltdowns. Nor for failing to get off the field more than one time in the first Steelers game.

I didn't say the defense was horrible, only average. The defensive play last year does not warrant the amount of gushing they are receiving in this thread and Pees doesn't warrant gushing at all.

Let's see - we face Big Ben every year(2) we faced Brady this year and the year before. We faced Manning this year and the year before. We faced Rivers in '12 but not in '13. About the only differential is Rodgers really when you look at talent and offensive production per team.

My point still stands.

Your point is crap. He makes sense and I was going to bring it up earlier. No mention of league averages for the seasons or for the teams we faced. Thats like saying since a team played us in 12 and 13 our offense then produced similar numbers. You should go with how those teams produced that season on average. Also, saying the offense or ST you have to play with doesn't affect you is pure stupidity. Your argument is weak.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

I think we'll be fine with Pees. He's done a pretty good job. He isn't Mattison bad when it comes to being conservative. We'll be fine as long as we find a solid FS and some defensive line depth. 

[Ravenslifer]

The defense showed great improvement last year, the one complaint is working on end of half defense ( not giving up back-breaking scores before half time), and game-ending drives in the 4th quarter ( a drive where we're down points seemingly with some momentum to make a comeback but then can't stop a first down to get the ball back. Or we score take a lead then the defense gives it back. ).

At times it's understandable. The defense might have a great game for over half the game with the offense spurting along, then a turnover puts the defense with a short field.

Ex. Green Bay game. An entire half of pure defensive struggles, offense can't move the ball to save their lives. Finally defense gives up a score, then the offense either goes 3 and out or scores gives us "hope", and if the defense that carried us the whole game gives up another score it creates that well they gave up the game couldn't get one stop for the offense. When in reality the offense never helped them from the beginning.

 

The problem with that though, is that quite simply every single move we made during the offseason was to help the defense - we added no offensive pieces in the draft, traded Anquan Boldin, and only added guys late as injury replacements when losing two of our 3 top weapons (Pitta and Jones).  Whereas on defense we added Elvis Dumervil, Chris Canty, Marcus Spears, Michael Huff (who admittedly was terrible), Darryl Smith, and our first 4 draft picks were Matt Elam, Arthur Brown, Brandon Williams and John Simon.  We literally poured everything into fixing the defense last year, and made no moves to the offense so that when we lost 2 players it was crippling.

[BSHU_Miami]

In 2011, while Spangolu was the HC, St. Louis finished 26th in total defense. That should silence those who call for him to replace Pees.

Pees is no Rex Ryan or Chuck Pagano, but he's pretty good.

now look at his stats as

DC

[Ravenslifer]

now look at his stats as

DC

 

Spags or Pees - because Spags didn't have much success after he left New York, either as HC or DC.

[ravensdfan]

Aside from the fact that your post did not address my point, you pretty much made mine - that equal stats from two different years do not necessarily mean equal performances, but thanks for playing

 

Except we gave up above their average offensive output for the year in 2013 didn't we?

 

 

 

Your point is crap. He makes sense and I was going to bring it up earlier. No mention of league averages for the seasons or for the teams we faced. Thats like saying since a team played us in 12 and 13 our offense then produced similar numbers. You should go with how those teams produced that season on average. Also, saying the offense or ST you have to play with doesn't affect you is pure stupidity. Your argument is weak.

 

Funny really because you're the big one in all the Flacco threads about excuses. That is just an excuse. When we talk about the 2000 Ravens D what do we talk about? How few points they allowed - how few yards - yet now because I've proven that the statements of great improvement from last year are misleading - those don't matter now.

 

You're all drinking way too much defensive kool-aid around here. Our defense is average. Nothing more. In fact, even if you want to look at rankings, they're only 3 clicks from average in the league.

 

Is that all Pees fault? Not all of it, no. But some of it does go down to his overall conservative play calling.

[The Raven]

Except we gave up above their average offensive output for the year in 2013 didn't we?

 

 

 

 

Funny really because you're the big one in all the Flacco threads about excuses. That is just an excuse. When we talk about the 2000 Ravens D what do we talk about? How few points they allowed - how few yards - yet now because I've proven that the statements of great improvement from last year are misleading - those don't matter now.

 

You're all drinking way too much defensive kool-aid around here. Our defense is average. Nothing more. In fact, even if you want to look at rankings, they're only 3 clicks from average in the league.

 

Is that all Pees fault? Not all of it, no. But some of it does go down to his overall conservative play calling.

 

They're also two clicks away from top ten.

 

They ranked 12th in points. They are what they are, and they're above average. That is a fact and it can't even be argued. You are grasping for straws with this tired debate and baseless agenda.

[redrum52]

Except we gave up above their average offensive output for the year in 2013 didn't we?

Funny really because you're the big one in all the Flacco threads about excuses. That is just an excuse. When we talk about the 2000 Ravens D what do we talk about? How few points they allowed - how few yards - yet now because I've proven that the statements of great improvement from last year are misleading - those don't matter now.

You're all drinking way too much defensive kool-aid around here. Our defense is average. Nothing more. In fact, even if you want to look at rankings, they're only 3 clicks from average in the league.

Is that all Pees fault? Not all of it, no. But some of it does go down to his overall conservative play calling.

So any defense that doesnt compare to an all time great defense is "average?"

Top 10 defenses to me aren't average. Look up the word average. If you finish in the top 10, that usually means you finished above the league average in a category.

Quit trolling.

[display name]

now look at his stats as

DC

Alright, I did. Knowing that he was the DC of New Orleans in 2012 lead me to look up the best defenses in the NFL that season. Apparently the Saints finished dead last in total yards allowed.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?

I am aware that he was the DC Coordinator of the NYG from 2007 through 2008, and I seem to remember them having a pretty fierce defense then. However his performances in 2011 and in 2012 do not reflect very much skill as an administrator of an entire defensive unit.

[BSHU_Miami]

Alright, I did. Knowing that he was the DC of New Orleans in 2012 lead me to look up the best defenses in the NFL that season. Apparently the Saints finished dead last in total yards allowed.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?

I am aware that he was the DC Coordinator of the NYG from 2007 through 2008, and I seem to remember them having a pretty fierce defense then. However his performances in 2011 and in 2012 do not reflect very much skill as an administrator of an entire defensive unit.

was that saints defense that didn't have half of it's players due to the bounty scandal? Besides I feel our personall that we put on the feel now is a better fit for a Spags style defense. We have aggressive players and we have a conservative DC. Pees has been good don't get me wrong, but I feel we can be better. Up there with the Carolina, SF, Sea defenses.

[display name]

was that saints defense that didn't have half of it's players due to the bounty scandal? Besides I feel our personall that we put on the feel now is a better fit for a Spags style defense. We have aggressive players and we have a conservative DC. Pees has been good don't get me wrong, but I feel we can be better. Up there with the Carolina, SF, Sea defenses.

Alright. I see what you're saying.

[ravensdfan]

So any defense that doesnt compare to an all time great defense is "average?"

Top 10 defenses to me aren't average. Look up the word average. If you finish in the top 10, that usually means you finished above the league average in a category.

Quit trolling.

Lol top 10? You know we werent right?

[redrum52]

Lol top 10? You know we werent right?

12th. My mistake.

[ravensdfan]

Alright - you like league averages and how we did?

 

2013

 

ppg 23.4    we allowed 22  --- .6 below the average --- so pretty much average.

pypg  235.6  we allowed 230.1 ---- 5.6 yds better than the average ---- slightly above average

rypg 117.5 we allowed 105.5 ---- definitely above average there.

 

2012

 

ppg 22.8 we allowed 21.5 ------over 1 pt per game ----- not great but better than 2013

pypg 231.3 we allowed 228.1 -----just under 3 yds per game ----2 yds worse than 2013

rypg 115.9 we allowed 122.8 ----this is where we struggled in 2013 by far.

 

If you said to me - hey our rushing defense improved last season - I'd agree. To say our defense as a whole really improved is just simply not a fact.

[Cillmatic]

It's time. Pees has ONE MORE YEAR. If he doesn't make our defense a top 10 unit he needs to go. We have enough for it to be one of the best and I'm tired of Dean Pees bringing the D down.

[ellicottraven]

Thanks to Pees (no disrespect to him), but he has neutralized our swagger on D since he took over. For whatever reason, his schemes are either not working or out of date. We need a fresh look on defense and a coach that isn't afraid to take chances with attacking offenses with everything they have. Pees hasn't gotten what the Ravens D really means to Baltimore....

[Drew P]

Also with Ngata's decline it's hard to rush 4 anymore.  When Pagano was here Ngata was dominant.  Now he's a shadow of himself.  

 

Once he signed that mega deal he partially retired like many an athlete

[BMORE21]

We need Wade Phillips

[5aiah]

At this point I'm actually looking at how the coaches develop the players and our scouting department because a lot of these guys aren't panning out and I don't think it has that much to do with scheme or play calling as people think. The entire team is average, but this year we will see if Kubiak's play calling can do more for the offense than Pees' can for the defense. I think this year is another major evaluation of our coaching talent instead of player talent. Just not liking what I'm seeing from the coaches to the general manager given that we were supposed to be reloading. Reloading isn't the right thing to do if we are going to be stuck at 8-8 for 3 years. Though I am very curious to see what happens to a fan base that hasn't endured too many consecutive losing seasons, I rather not have to go through years of mediocrity without bottoming out, just to find out.....

[GrimCoconut]

I definitely think this will be the end of Pees if his unit turns in another disappointing season. It's too early to tell but if the defense disappoints again, I think he's finished here.

[BSHU_Miami]

Thanks for bringing up my old thread lol. So.....are we in agreement now?