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xxDarby

What to do with Arthur Brown

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I may be a little late with this but I feel this point needs to be addressed. I'm happy that we resigned Dayrl but we already have a coverage MLB,Arthur Brown. I don't see us playing Brown and Smith together because we need a good run stuffer. What do you think the solution to this problem is? If we let Dayrl play out his contract without starting brown that's a waste of a pick and a waste of cap. On a personal note I was hoping we didn't resign smith and got Skov or played Brown and Rolando.  

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I still say we start them both, hopefully Arthur is ready....throw em into the fire!!! haha We traded up for Arthur to be more than just a pass defending ILB...he needs to continue to work hard in order to become our starting 3 down MLB one day.

 

Maybe we get a rotational run stuffer too though. Who knows.

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I think Brown will still start if he's ready regardless of Daryl. Also, Daryl can play SLB if we switch to a 4-3 on some downs with Brown as the WLB. We'd still need a true MLB. 

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I think people are underestimating him as a run defender. He's a good pass defender and that's what made him more enticing, but he's a very sound tackler, plays fast, and is fairly good with stack and shed.

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Arthur Brown is an all around player.  He lacked the bulk last year, so hopefully he's put on some to improve as a run defender.  I'd have 0 problems with him starting next to Daryl.

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We play in a 3-4 where Art will obviously be a starter next to Daryl. I think by the time Daryl's contract is up Art will be ready to take over as the primary ILB and we'll find someone to start next to him. Art is fine, and having someone like Daryl who can mentor Brown for a few years will benefit Brown more than the OP thinks.

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We play in a 3-4 where Art will obviously be a starter next to Daryl. I think by the time Daryl's contract is up Art will be ready to take over as the primary ILB and we'll find someone to start next to him. Art is fine, and having someone like Daryl who can mentor Brown for a few years will benefit Brown more than the OP thinks.

I hope Dayrl teaches him well. I can't tell you how many times he saved us with a good audible on defense 

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I think Harbs pretty much made it official a while ago that he expects Brown to be a starter this season so I'm sure we'll go into the season with him and Daryl @ ILB. I just hope he plays the run well because Daryl is not that good against the run. If not I can see us drafting a 3-4 ILB thumper to help our run defense in the 4th or 5th round.

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I think Harbs pretty much made it official a while ago that he expects Brown to be a starter this season so I'm sure we'll go into the season with him and Daryl @ ILB. I just hope he plays the run well because Daryl is not that good against the run. If not I can see us drafting a 3-4 ILB thumper to help our run defense in the 4th or 5th round.

so if Art isn't all that good against the run like Dayrl do we start the thumper and let Art develop more or start Art and let the thumper develop both have their pros and cons

Edited by xxDarby
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so if Art isn't all that good against the run like Dayrl do we start the thumper and let Art develop more or start Art and let the thumper develop both have their pros and cons

 

I have full faith in Art's ability to play the run so I was just throwing it out there. I'd still like us to add a run stuffing ILB in case of emergency if one guy gets hurt.

 

I think either way Art will probably start the entire year, whether he plays the run well or not, it's not like we have any better options right now.

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I think Harbs pretty much made it official a while ago that he expects Brown to be a starter this season so I'm sure we'll go into the season with him and Daryl @ ILB. I just hope he plays the run well because Daryl is not that good against the run. If not I can see us drafting a 3-4 ILB thumper to help our run defense in the 4th or 5th round.

I have no idea how true this may or may not be, but isn't it possible that Daryl's struggles against the run came from unfamiliarity with the inside linebacker position? He just didn't really seem to attack downhill quickly. It seemed like he waited for it to come to him. When he played as an OLB for the Jags, he tore it up, so I think it may have been unfamiliarity.

I have tons of faith, either way, that Arthur Brown will be good against the run

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I think people are underestimating him as a run defender. He's a good pass defender and that's what made him more enticing, but he's a very sound tackler, plays fast, and is fairly good with stack and shed.

I agree to an extent. Brown looks very good but he's still learning the NFL. It was very evident to me. He didn't look great when shedding blocks but I feel like he was improving in run support. He was inconsistent, which tells me it's a learning curve issue less than it is a skill issue. I think he'll be fine.

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I agree to an extent. Brown looks very good but he's still learning the NFL. It was very evident to me. He didn't look great when shedding blocks but I feel like he was improving in run support. He was inconsistent, which tells me it's a learning curve issue less than it is a skill issue. I think he'll be fine.

I would have been much happier had he been able to start his rookie season, and honestly, I feel he would have if he didn't get injured

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Brown and Smith starting together is likely what we will see this season and there is nothing wrong with that.  While there is a lack of a true run stuffer, having two plus coverage linebackers in today's NFL is great.

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To counter that I feel that we should get a Pure run stuffing DT in the draft to pair with Brandon Williams/ngata (when he feels like showing up). I think that can assist Smith and brown real well. Who are some options?

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Smith can't drop the hammer anymore so if Arthur can't be a thumper we're going to take a hit to our run defense, we also lost our best defensive lineman while Ngata/Canty/Suggs are getting older.

 

Based on what we saw last season how many blue chip players do we have for our 3-4 base? because you need more than in a 4-3.

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arthur brown should definitely start.. hopefully he bulked up a bit. i just wish rolando would make up his mind on his comeback. that would give us a very solid lb group with a good run stuffer.

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arthur brown should definitely start.. hopefully he bulked up a bit. i just wish rolando would make up his mind on his comeback. that would give us a very solid lb group with a good run stuffer.

this is what i kinda want to happen

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Getting lost in the conversation here is Josh Bynes, who actually played just as well, if not better than McClain last year. Brown and Smith will be our primary ILBs, but they will sub in Bynes to play in place of Brown when it's a short-yardage situation. 

 

Brown is a very instinctive LB who has no problem shooting a gap and tackling 1 on 1 (he made a great tackle during last year's preseason game vs the Falcons), but his presence will be diminished in a power situation with a lot of blockers. 

 

 

Also, I'll just throw this out there: scouts from the ravens seemed to be interested in Wisconsin's Chris Borland, who is a pure run-stuffing ILB. 

Edited by Maryland
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arthur brown isnt a "coverage" LB, have you seen how skilled he is at weaving through blockers in traffic? he will be able to handle his job just fine

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Daryl Smith struggled shedding blocks last year. But the two of them on the inside gives us a lot of speed in the middle that we havent had in a while. If our d line can clog up space we will be fine

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I think people are underestimating him as a run defender. He's a good pass defender and that's what made him more enticing, but he's a very sound tackler, plays fast, and is fairly good with stack and shed.

Yeah, really...guy was a tackle machine in college and one of the reasons he was so highly regarded

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I really hope his problems in the run game were just because he was small. I know it's an unpopular thing to say but he was terrible against the run. Great in coverage, though.

 

Unless we do transition to a 4-3 base, which is looking more and more likely by the day, I have serious doubts about our run defense. 

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arthur brown has the potential to be a Navarro bowman type

 

Potential is probably the word.

 

He lacks bulk. He looks like a baseball player out there.

 

As far as his run stopping skills in college, he was a monster at running a loose back down from behind or at an angle. He was far less effective plugging a hole for no gain.

Edited by Poes Crows
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Getting lost in the conversation here is Josh Bynes, who actually played just as well, if not better than McClain last year. Brown and Smith will be our primary ILBs, but they will sub in Bynes to play in place of Brown when it's a short-yardage situation.

Brown is a very instinctive LB who has no problem shooting a gap and tackling 1 on 1 (he made a great tackle during last year's preseason game vs the Falcons), but his presence will be diminished in a power situation with a lot of blockers.

Also, I'll just throw this out there: scouts from the ravens seemed to be interested in Wisconsin's Chris Borland, who is a pure run-stuffing ILB.

I'd rather draft Andrew Jackson than Borland. That's just me. That's if we want a run stuffer thumper
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Another option would be to transition to a 4-3, that way we could protect Brown on the weak side and Smith in the middle. Suggs at LDE Ngata and Canty inside with Doom on the right.

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The ravens start him, that's what they do. He is ready and you don't draft somebody in the second round (after trading up) only to have him sit. Sometimes I wish the Ravens play their draft picks more, look at Alonso in buffalo (I hate Alonso for other reasons) or other draft picks. He was and is better than Bynes and McClain, it's stupid to let him sit and "learn" .

Edited by redlobster
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I personally think it's more valuable to have 2 mlb's who are good in coverage, even if they were to lack a bit in the run defense department, than to have one good in coverage and one good against the run.

Plus, I think you're underestimating both of their ability's to play the run. And if Rolando McClain un-retires he will work in rotation with them and see action on obvious running downs. I hope he does come back - he's still young, seems to have his head screwed on right, probably continued to train with Saban and the 'Bama boys, and will finally be in a scheme that suits his talents. He would be a totally unexpected benefit. Kids got all-pro talent and is still the same age or younger than than a lot of our draft picks from the past 2 years.

---

Somewhat unrelated, but did anyone have the feeling that Ozzie played a hand in McClains "retirement." I have a suspicion that Ozzie had a heart-to-heart with him and convinced him that he should sign with the Ravens, take a year off to get his mind right, finish school, and by retiring have the option to come back to the Ravens, get paid and re-claim his career.

Either way, I'm happy for him and excited to see him possibly come back and achieve his potential in purple and black. I'm rooting for his return bc I think he's still got it.

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I thought we should of sign b.spikes instead of smith for a run stopper, maybe mccain comes back and plays at a high level and make a.brown play at a high level

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Another option would be to transition to a 4-3, that way we could protect Brown on the weak side and Smith in the middle. Suggs at LDE Ngata and Canty inside with Doom on the right.

 

I love transitioning to a 43 mainly because I feel it is best for the NFL today. I feel our 2 gap 34 in outdated. But we would need more depth in the dline to make it happen. Someone who can penetrate and get into the backfield to make it work. I don't see us addressing that in the draft so we will have a 34 next year IMO.

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I love transitioning to a 43 mainly because I feel it is best for the NFL today. I feel our 2 gap 34 in outdated. But we would need more depth in the dline to make it happen. Someone who can penetrate and get into the backfield to make it work. I don't see us addressing that in the draft so we will have a 34 next year IMO.

 

The 3-4 isn't outdated, you just need special players to run it well.

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The 3-4 isn't outdated, you just need special players to run it well.

I think having your entire dline just gobble up blocks is. I feel its best to have as many natural pass rushers as you can since it is such a pass heavy league. And if you can shoot a gap and get to the backfield to get the QB or a RB why would you have them taking up space.

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Another option would be to transition to a 4-3, that way we could protect Brown on the weak side and Smith in the middle. Suggs at LDE Ngata and Canty inside with Doom on the right.

brandon williams would be a much better 4-3 DT than canty based on size alone, canty just isnt beefy enough for that, excellent front man on a 3-4 though

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I personally think it's more valuable to have 2 mlb's who are good in coverage, even if they were to lack a bit in the run defense department, than to have one good in coverage and one good against the run.

Plus, I think you're underestimating both of their ability's to play the run. And if Rolando McClain un-retires he will work in rotation with them and see action on obvious running downs. I hope he does come back - he's still young, seems to have his head screwed on right, probably continued to train with Saban and the 'Bama boys, and will finally be in a scheme that suits his talents. He would be a totally unexpected benefit. Kids got all-pro talent and is still the same age or younger than than a lot of our draft picks from the past 2 years.

---

Somewhat unrelated, but did anyone have the feeling that Ozzie played a hand in McClains "retirement." I have a suspicion that Ozzie had a heart-to-heart with him and convinced him that he should sign with the Ravens, take a year off to get his mind right, finish school, and by retiring have the option to come back to the Ravens, get paid and re-claim his career.

Either way, I'm happy for him and excited to see him possibly come back and achieve his potential in purple and black. I'm rooting for his return bc I think he's still got it.

i think its more valuable as well, we need to hope our DLine can either make the stop on run plays, or at least clutter up the line enough to slow them up and let our LB's make the play, if you have either of ur ILB's weak on coverage, then it is an area to exploit through the entire course of a season, if jameel mcclain is in at the mike backer, and daryl smith is dropping into zone from the will, on say, 2nd and 5, then its not a obvious type of down, jameel drops into a zone and gets abused on a play action for a big play, where if we had 2 coverage guys, the threat of the run is there, but the instinctive coverage guys wont normally bite as easy on a play fake, and a guy like arthur brown would have the closing speed to make up for biting on the fake and get back into his zone much quicker. 

 

the run stopping thumpers are somewhat overrated in this pass happy league, and if we can find a true FS and move elam to SS and let him hunt, then we wont need to worry about having a run stuffer at ILB, he has the ability to wreak havoc in the run game as well as any decent ILB. 

 

i think the obvious keys to allowing us to use 2 faster, agile ILB's, is depth and beef on the 3 man front, effective edge setting from our OLB's on obvious run downs, and a FS to allow us to use matt elam for what he is best at. if we have those things, arthur brown and daryl smith will absolutely shine

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Our BASE defense is still a 3/4 and I would assume he would still be in the nickel packages as he was last year. With Jameel leaving that second inside linebacker spot, Arthur will get much more playing time this year if he continues to progress, step up, and earn the spot which I am confident that he will.

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I'd rather have Arthur starting with Smith than Josh Bynes. Arthur looks to be a solid all around linebacker. And with a year under his belt I hope he can turn into a real playmaker alongside Daryl Smith.

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I may be a little late with this but I feel this point needs to be addressed. I'm happy that we resigned Dayrl but we already have a coverage MLB,Arthur Brown. I don't see us playing Brown and Smith together because we need a good run stuffer. What do you think the solution to this problem is? If we let Dayrl play out his contract without starting brown that's a waste of a pick and a waste of cap. On a personal note I was hoping we didn't resign smith and got Skov or played Brown and Rolando.

The middle is not a one person position. Not all that different than when we had Lewis, Ellerbe and McLain up the middle. We will work brown in as he's ready and where he's ready and still get plenty of use out of Smith. Plus it's a High impact position so odds are somebody will be injured at some point and you need a next man up situation.

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Andrew Jackson is now the play for the late round thumper to compliment Smith/Brown.

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Andrew Jackson is now the play for the late round thumper to compliment Smith/Brown.

I really like Jackson as a late round possibly UDFA pick.
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I really hope his problems in the run game were just because he was small. I know it's an unpopular thing to say but he was terrible against the run. Great in coverage, though.

 

Unless we do transition to a 4-3 base, which is looking more and more likely by the day, I have serious doubts about our run defense. 

Are you talking about Daryl Smith? He was pretty terrible vs the run last year.

 

Brown played a very limited role where he was almost entirely playing on obvious passing downs. He was only in on 19 total snaps vs the run.

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Are you talking about Daryl Smith? He was pretty terrible vs the run last year.

 

Brown played a very limited role where he was almost entirely playing on obvious passing downs. He was only in on 19 total snaps vs the run.

 

Now that you mention it, Smith wasn't that great against the run either. 

 

Didn't realize Brown only played 19 snaps on run downs, but I guess a few of those 19 snaps stand out to me.

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Brown is really heavily criticized against the run and a lot can be attributed to him not "playing well" when a run was called. If the defensive front is expecting a pass, we saw last year quite a few times the other team audible into a successful run play that left the DL guessing itself and subsequently failing to stop the run. Our DL is very peculiar in that manner. You'd expect them to be a lot better with guys like Williams, Ngata, Canty, Jones, etc. but they just weren't phenomenal at stopping the run when I watched the games. Granted, I missed half the season but that's my opinion from what I saw. The DL plays a big part in stopping the run. it's a reason why Carolina did so well and why Kuechly really shined this year despite being a phenomenal player. Having that much beef up front helps a lot. When guards are getting to the LBs that's an issue.

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I really like Jackson as a late round possibly UDFA pick.

 

I feel like he gets drafted. He might slide from the 3rd-4th range he was once in.. but I feel like late 5th to late 6th is his range. The only knock on him is coverage and character concerns.

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Maybe look at Preston Brown in the draft as a capable run stuffer? Should be available with one of our comp picks in round 4 if the draft falls right.

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I think we drafted him to play but if he gets buried on a talented team that is no wasted pick.  The thing is last year the game seemed to move fast for him and he lost many snaps to former RFA and Raven's groomed Josh Bynes who is also very athletic.  I see Brown overtaking Bynes this year, and in a pass happy league coverage LB's shouldn't be overlooked anyway.  The thing is it's not like he's a deficient tackler but he's not mad-man Bart Scott shooting up the hole and he not the player to lead our defense from the MLB spot at this time.  Expect him to emerge and be more productive as well as see more snaps as the #2 MLB / coverage LB, but not overtake D.Smith.  

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I may be a little late with this but I feel this point needs to be addressed. I'm happy that we resigned Dayrl but we already have a coverage MLB,Arthur Brown. I don't see us playing Brown and Smith together because we need a good run stuffer. What do you think the solution to this problem is? If we let Dayrl play out his contract without starting brown that's a waste of a pick and a waste of cap. On a personal note I was hoping we didn't resign smith and got Skov or played Brown and Rolando.  

If anything McClellan and Bynes are the odd men out.  McClain has a lot of conditioning to get back and I don't think that he'll be able to unseat Brown, at least for most of 2014.  He's just going to be exceptional depth and situational in pass plays IF he comes back.

Edited by Tenacious Faulker
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I don't like this thought process that Arthur Brown isn't a run-stuffer, thus can't play as much with D.Smith...

Arthur Brown did not play enough to say that he can't play run well, because he has nice quickness and coverage skills he was used more in passing situations during his limited action.

Let's remember the Ravens spent the better part of 4 seasons splitting reps between J.Mcclain, T.Gooden, and D.Ellerbe because ( Gooden stayed injured, McClain was "run-stuffer", Ellerbe "coverage linebacker") this lead to not one of them developing into a full starter. Until year 5 when McClain got hurt and Ellerbe became a full time starter and showed he could now play the run and the pass well.

Last season I would have rather A.Brown take 70-80% of snaps opposite of D.smith, over Bynes, McClain, McClellan to gain much needed playing experience.

Bynes playing wasn't a big deal at first, because is also a young hungry player, but Bynes missed tackles, and had coverage issues early, which is why I felt more snaps could go to A.Brown.

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