Ravens Dynasty - Are we there yet?

[Tru11]

Dynasties' had an elite/HOF caliber play at qb.So I would say consistent, but no where near dynasty

 

 

Tom Brady in the mid 2000s says hello

 

Why does he say hello?

 

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

[Ravenslifer]

Why does he say hello?

 

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

 

Uh what - he finished above 4000 yards passing one time, never even reached a 93 QBR, and never hit 30 passing TDs in a season from 2001-2006.  Guys like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Matt Hasslebeck, and Trent Green all had consistently better numbers than Brady did during that period.  Brady made 1 probowl in that period, why, because every year at least 3-5 guys had a better season.  So Brady was hardly elite during that period - he didn't start to find himself alongside the league leaders in statistical categories until 2007.  Weird actually, because I think he was much more clutch during that period, and when the team wasn't focused on him, the Pats won 3 Superbowls, but since 2007 they've been much more of an offensive team, and he hasn't been able to win a Superbowl since.

[arnie_uk]

Why does he say hello?

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

ha, sibce Brady got elite new england haven't won a thing, surprisingly.

They won their superbowls with that defense, their kicker and not turning the ball over. And of course the head coach.

Brady was the epitome of a game manager when new England were winning superbowls

[Tru11]

Uh what - he finished above 4000 yards passing one time, never even reached a 93 QBR, and never hit 30 passing TDs in a season from 2001-2006.  Guys like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Matt Hasslebeck, and Trent Green all had consistently better numbers than Brady did during that period.  Brady made 1 probowl in that period, why, because every year at least 3-5 guys had a better season.  So Brady was hardly elite during that period - he didn't start to find himself alongside the league leaders in statistical categories until 2007.  Weird actually, because I think he was much more clutch during that period, and when the team wasn't focused on him, the Pats won 3 Superbowls, but since 2007 they've been much more of an offensive team, and he hasn't been able to win a Superbowl since.

 

your joking right?

 

he was in top 10 in pretty much every category  prior to 2007 and he did it with far less talent then any QB you mentioned.

 

1 pro bowl???

2001 2004 2005 and 2007 where all pro bowl years.

 

2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

2002 1st in TD 6th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2003 10t in TD 6th in pass yards 10th in QB rating

2004  6th in TD 10th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2005  3rd in TD 1st in pass yards 6th in QB rating

2006  4th in TD 7th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2007 1st in all 3

 

his top Wrs prior to 2007:

TE: C Fauria

Wr: T.Brown,D.Branch, D.Givens

RB:  K.Faulk and C.Dillon.

 

feel free to compare these players to other receiving cores and then come back and tell me how much talent he had to work with lol.

Also keep in mind defenses where still allowed to actually play defense back then.

 

Given the players he had on offense, the numbers he managed to put up , the rules at that time and the fact that the 2002 9-7 season was the worst mark for the pats in that period and the fact it was a run first offense, i find it hard to argue he wasent elite lol.

 

It isent suprisingly that corey dillon retired after the 2006 season and they went and brought in welker and moss for 2007 season.....

 

we all hate the patriots and brady here and i will always remind pats fans abou spygate but lets not go the homer route and argue that brady was an avg QB lol.

 

for a mere 6th round pick he is easy 1 of the greatest draft steals of all time....

[RobFuseRaven]

The Ravens won't be a dynasty until they learn to play their young guys. When I look at the Seahawks, they haven't been afraid to start their guys. We also need to draft tough, hard hitting guys.

[Tru11]

ha, sibce Brady got elite new england haven't won a thing, surprisingly.

They won their superbowls with that defense, their kicker and not turning the ball over. And of course the head coach.

Brady was the epitome of a game manager when new England were winning superbowls

 

2001 perhaps you right.

 

2003 was 10th in TD and 6th in yards

2004 was 6th in TD and 10th in yards.

 

Also in 2002 he lead the league in TD thrown...

 

find it hard to imagine a simple game manager would have top 10 numbers.

i find it really hard to imagine a game manager would have top 10 numbers with such a poor receiver core playing in a run first offense...

League must have been pretty terrible if a game manager throws for the most TD lol.

 

you must be lookin at joe flacco numbers  orso lol.

[PolishRifle]

2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

You can't credit Tom Brady fully with 3 SB wins. Especially the first one. The Patriots got to the SB via the Tuck Rule in 2001. Brady fumbled the ball in the 2001 AFC DIVISIONAL GAME. If we're gonna hold Peyton throwing an INT to Tracy Porter in the SB against him, which I do, than I still have to put an astirisk on that title, which Brady would've fumbled away, if it were not for the refs helping him out.

Brady's performance in that SB game wasn't that important anyway. It had more to do with Bill Belichicks defense beating up the Rams receivers than the QB play, which is true for most of the SB titles that team won.

As soon as the Patriots lost their defensive players, the Patriots "dynasty" dried up.

 

Tom Brady is a 2 SB QB, right up there with Jim Plunkett, who would've seen the same success on those same teams. Elite numbers, by an elite system.

[PolishRifle]

2001 perhaps you right.

 

2003 was 10th in TD and 6th in yards

2004 was 6th in TD and 10th in yards.

 

Also in 2002 he lead the league in TD thrown...

 

find it hard to imagine a simple game manager would have top 10 numbers.

i find it really hard to imagine a game manager would have top 10 numbers with such a poor receiver core playing in a run first offense...

League must have been pretty terrible if a game manager throws for the most TD lol.

 

you must be lookin at joe flacco numbers  orso lol.

 

And in 2008 he was 10th in TD and 8th in yards...oh wait that was Matt Cassel.

 

I must've been looking at the numbers of their backup QB orso lol.

[Tru11]

You can't credit Tom Brady fully with 3 SB wins. Especially the first one. The Patriots got to the SB via the Tuck Rule in 2001. Brady fumbled the ball in the 2001 AFC DIVISIONAL GAME. If we're gonna hold Peyton throwing an INT to Tracy Porter in the SB against him, which I do, than I still have to put an astirisk on that title, which Brady would've fumbled away, if it were not for the refs helping him out.

Brady's performance in that SB game wasn't that important anyway. It had more to do with Bill Belichicks defense beating up the Rams receivers than the QB play, which is true for most of the SB titles that team won.

As soon as the Patriots lost their defensive players, the Patriots "dynasty" dried up.

 

Tom Brady is a 2 SB QB, right up there with Jim Plunkett, who would've seen the same success on those same teams. Elite numbers, by an elite system.

 

he earned SB MVP in 2 of them lol.

 

everyone is crediting flacco for doing the same , not mention use any excuse in the book to keep him from being bashed.

 

seriously why do we have double standards??

 

Also how can someone who leads the league in TD 1 year as has been top 10 in pretty much every major category for a QB be qualified as a game manger??

 

that doesen make any sense at all.

[Tank 92]

Brady is the most over rated player in the history of the NFL thanks to the media. Buy into his "greatness" if you want, but his name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Unitas, Montana, etc.. 

[PolishRifle]

he earned SB MVP in 2 of them lol.

 

everyone is crediting flacco for doing the same , not mention use any excuse in the book to keep him from being bashed.

 

seriously why do we have double standards??

 

Also how can someone who leads the league in TD 1 year as has been top 10 in pretty much every major category for a QB be qualified as a game manger??

 

that doesen make any sense at all.

 

I don't have any double standards. Flacco and Brady are the products of their teams, their coaches and their divisions. That includes numbers and playoff success. You either have a franchise QB or you don't and both of them are. I don't see the big difference, just because you selectively quote statistics, which would make Matt Cassel look like an elite QB (a moniker I find ridiculous).

 

The problem is that everyone elevates Brady above anyone else, while almost everyone, including our own fans are bashing Flacco. The Patriots are the most underrated TEAM in history, that somehow gets the rep of being carried by Brady, while too many people assume, that the Ravens would've seen the same kind of success with any QB.

[Tru11]

And in 2008 he was 10th in TD and 8th in yards...oh wait that was Matt Cassel.

 

I must've been looking at the numbers of their backup QB orso lol.

 

lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

[Hardbaugh]

Tom Brady in the mid 2000s says hello

 

 

The game has changed much in a decade.

 

On another note Ravens have been consistent but need to reel off another Super Bowl win soon and get some 12 to 14 plus win regular seasons under their belt to be in the dynasty discussion.

[PolishRifle]

lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

 

It was Cassels first season as the starter of the Patriots and his numbers are actually better than Bradys first.

 

The game has changed much in a decade.

 

On another note Ravens have been consistent but need to reel off another Super Bowl win soon and get some 12 to 14 plus win regular seasons under their belt to be in the dynasty discussion.

 

I agree with that. Dynasties win SBs in short consecutive order. The Ravens need to be in atleast SB contention next season for this topic to even have a point.

[Tank 92]

lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

 

 

Forget stats.  Have you ever watched him play? His greatest asset is that he has a quick release. Other than that I've never seen anything from him that would remotely qualify him for the praise he gets. Dink and dunk is his game.  And the way he just falls down in anticipation of contact is down right pathetic. Like I said, Brady is the most over rated player in the history of the game.

[Tru11]

come on man if you wanna compare bady to cassel look no further then 2007 and 2008.

 

same system and same players 1 year apart:

 

brady 2007 50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating

cassel 2008  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards 63.15 QB rating

 

how are you going to compare cassel in 2008 to brady in 2001.................

yeah man that makes sense rofl

[Moderator 3]

If this topic is going to stay active, it needs to be about the Ravens. Comparing QBs from other teams to each other has no place here.

[Ravenslifer]

your joking right?

 

he was in top 10 in pretty much every category  prior to 2007 and he did it with far less talent then any QB you mentioned.

 

1 pro bowl???

2001 2004 2005 and 2007 where all pro bowl years.

 

2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

2002 1st in TD 6th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2003 10t in TD 6th in pass yards 10th in QB rating

2004  6th in TD 10th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2005  3rd in TD 1st in pass yards 6th in QB rating

2006  4th in TD 7th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2007 1st in all 3

 

his top Wrs prior to 2007:

TE: C Fauria

Wr: T.Brown,D.Branch, D.Givens

RB:  K.Faulk and C.Dillon.

 

feel free to compare these players to other receiving cores and then come back and tell me how much talent he had to work with lol.

Also keep in mind defenses where still allowed to actually play defense back then.

 

Given the players he had on offense, the numbers he managed to put up , the rules at that time and the fact that the 2002 9-7 season was the worst mark for the pats in that period and the fact it was a run first offense, i find it hard to argue he wasent elite lol.

 

It isent suprisingly that corey dillon retired after the 2006 season and they went and brought in welker and moss for 2007 season.....

 

we all hate the patriots and brady here and i will always remind pats fans abou spygate but lets not go the homer route and argue that brady was an avg QB lol.

 

for a mere 6th round pick he is easy 1 of the greatest draft steals of all time....

 

I might have slipped on the probowls, but those numbers are far from elite, as you pointed out yourself.  10th in QBR is not elite.  < 4000 yards passing is NOT elite.  He wasn't carrying his team, he was a complement and had a strong run game and defense.  Elite quarterbacks carry their team.  And often don't build a dynasty - teams that win multiple superbowls typically don't have quarterbacks putting up top numbers e.g. the 90s cowboys, the early 2000s pats, the Steelers making 3 superbowls from 2005-2010.

[PolishRifle]

come on man if you wanna compare bady to cassel look no further then 2007 and 2008.

 

same system and same players 1 year apart:

 

brady 2007 50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating

cassel 2008  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards 63.15 QB rating

 

how are you going to compare cassel in 2008 to brady in 2001.................

yeah man that makes sense rofl

 

2008 Cassel and 2001 Brady are both starters and Cassel outperformed Brady by almost 1000 yards passing, 2007 Brady has been a starter for 6 seasons at that point. Yeah, that does make sense. Whatever, keep making excuses to elevate Brady to a status beyond reason like everyone else does as he beat up on 3 clueless franchises in his conference on the most underrated team ever (thanks to all the Brady apologists).

 

The Patriots dynasty, like most, is build on:

 

A great Headcoach (we have that)

A franchise QB (we have that)

A well run system (we hopefully get that)

A good defense (we have that)

A great OL (THAT is probably the biggest problem for the RAVENS to resolve)

 

The Ravens can be a dynastiy, IF they can find a way to turn the OL around into a top 10 unit (tall order considering the last season).

[Tank 92]

2008 Cassel and 2001 Brady are both starters and Cassel outperformed Brady by almost 1000 yards passing, 2007 Brady has been a starter for 6 seasons at that point. Yeah, that does make sense. Whatever, keep making excuses to elevate Brady to a status beyond reason like everyone else does as he beat up on 3 clueless franchises in his conference on the most underrated team ever (thanks to all the Brady apologists).

 

The Patriots dynasty, like most, is build on:

 

A great Headcoach (we have that)

A franchise QB (we have that)

A well run system (we hopefully get that)

A good defense (we have that)

A great OL (THAT is probably the biggest problem for the RAVENS to resolve)

 

The Ravens can be a dynastiy, IF they can find a way to turn the OL around into a top 10 unit (tall order considering the last season).

 

 

No question that the O line is what killed our roll last year and is the piece we need to move into a "dynasty" period. 

 

If the O line would not have gelled at the end of 2012 we would have never been able to make that tournament run. It's no fallacy that games are won/lost at the los.

[PolishRifle]

No question that the O line is what killed our roll last year and is the piece we need to move into a "dynasty" period. 

 

If the O line would not have gelled at the end of 2012 we would have never been able to make that tournament run. It's no fallacy that games are won/lost at the los.

 

I stand by it, just average OL play would've gotten us back to the playoffs and we would have a more legitimate debate on dynasties. As sceptic as I am about the Alex Mack "signing", I'm still holding out hope, it happens. That would be the piece that would put us over the top. Seriously, what does he want to do in Cleveland anyway?

[Tank 92]

I stand by it, just average OL play would've gotten us back to the playoffs and we would have a more legitimate debate on dynasties. As sceptic as I am about the Alex Mack "signing", I'm still holding out hope, it happens. That would be the piece that would put us over the top. Seriously, what does he want to do in Cleveland anyway?

 

No question. RR and Pierce were bad, but the holes to run through were few and far between. Pass protection? It was sad to watch.

 

Yeah, I think with a few more $ in cap room we would make a big push for Mack. You would think he would welcome the chance to move to a perennial contender, but it seems that we lack the room to make a serious bid. No question he would be the perfect anchor to what could be a great O line.  

[Tru11]

I might have slipped on the probowls, but those numbers are far from elite, as you pointed out yourself.  10th in QBR is not elite.  < 4000 yards passing is NOT elite.  He wasn't carrying his team, he was a complement and had a strong run game and defense.  Elite quarterbacks carry their team.  And often don't build a dynasty - teams that win multiple superbowls typically don't have quarterbacks putting up top numbers e.g. the 90s cowboys, the early 2000s pats, the Steelers making 3 superbowls from 2005-2010.

 

do you consider leading the league in TDs to be elite?

he did that in 2002.......

 

also 4000+ passer where as rare in that period as 5000+ passers are in the period.

 

probaly has something to do with rule chances and flags being thrown for just about anything the defense does......

 

 

 

 

2008 Cassel and 2001 Brady are both starters and Cassel outperformed Brady by almost 1000 yards passing, 2007 Brady has been a starter for 6 seasons at that point. Yeah, that does make sense. Whatever, keep making excuses to elevate Brady to a status beyond reason like everyone else does as he beat up on 3 clueless franchises in his conference on the most underrated team ever (thanks to all the Brady apologists).

 

The Patriots dynasty, like most, is build on:

 

A great Headcoach (we have that)

A franchise QB (we have that)

A well run system (we hopefully get that)

A good defense (we have that)

A great OL (THAT is probably the biggest problem for the RAVENS to resolve)

 

The Ravens can be a dynastiy, IF they can find a way to turn the OL around into a top 10 unit (tall order considering the last season).

 

2001 brady played a different system then 2008 cassel

 

2007 brady played the same system as 2008 cassel.

seems like a better to compare 2 players playing the same system with same players...

 

not to mention brady started in his 2nd season while cassel started in his 4th season.

 

thats some real biased compairing rofl.