ravens533

Ravens Dynasty - Are we there yet?

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When Harbs came here now 6 years ago, he talked about building a dynasty. As I look back over those years I think that maybe he has. When a really bad season is an 8-8 season, you have to think that winning is the norm around here. Also, we attract players that want to play for a winning team. We have players that take less money to play here. Even a lot of the talking heads are more positive about us. Looking at all we have accomplished in the last 6 years and our reputation, it there any doubt that we have indeed become a dynasty?

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Dynasty's win multiple superbowls in consecutive or near consecutive years. So the answer is no.

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Pretty sure you need to win multiple Superbowls in a short period of time (e.g. the 80s niners, the 90s Cowbowys, the 2000s Patriots) in order to be considered a Dynasty.  I wouldn't consider the 2007-2011 Giants a Dynasty for example, even though they won 2 in five years.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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Well then, I guess that Harbs has to get us back to the SB this year to have his dynasty. But we are close to it now.

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Dynasty in the NFL is 3 championships in 5 years.

 

We aren't even close to a dynasty.  We should be, but we are not. 

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Dynasty in the NFL is 3 championships in 5 years.

We aren't even close to a dynasty. We should be, but we are not.

Just entertain my speculation for a moment...

Suppose Evans doesn't drop that pass and we go to the SB. We beat NYG,giving us back to back Super Bowls.

I think three AFCCG and 2 Superbowls, while making the playoffs each of those five years puts us on "dynasty status".

Of course ifs and buts....

Just saying that we are / were right on the cusp. I wouldn't say we are nowhere close

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Before last season we were as close as dynasty as you could get, but clearly not one. Like Fly said I think 2 SB's would've done it.

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This thread reminds me of the mood on the board after Dumervil's signing last year about a SB repeat and even a new word (threepeat). I admire the enthusiasm but how about we wait until the team makes playoffs again.

 

A Dynasty is possible but not there yet.

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When Harbs came here now 6 years ago, he talked about building a dynasty. As I look back over those years I think that maybe he has. When a really bad season is an 8-8 season, you have to think that winning is the norm around here. Also, we attract players that want to play for a winning team. We have players that take less money to play here. Even a lot of the talking heads are more positive about us. Looking at all we have accomplished in the last 6 years and our reputation, it there any doubt that we have indeed become a dynasty?

if we are talking dynasties in like AFC Championship games then yea we are there, but in regards to the Rings and Trophies , no....... only 1 in the harbaugh era, 2 overall. Now, i do believe the process is ongoing and therefore hasnt reached its potential, we'll see AFTER the season , but not before

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When Harbs came here now 6 years ago, he talked about building a dynasty. As I look back over those years I think that maybe he has. When a really bad season is an 8-8 season, you have to think that winning is the norm around here. Also, we attract players that want to play for a winning team. We have players that take less money to play here. Even a lot of the talking heads are more positive about us. Looking at all we have accomplished in the last 6 years and our reputation, it there any doubt that we have indeed become a dynasty?

This year will really tell us if we are a dynasty or not. We were potentially a defensive dynasty without a doubt for the past decade or so and no one will deny that. However were we a dynasty overall will depend on how this offense does moving forward. Now, that the Ravens brass has systematically removed any excuses for Flacco to perform we'll see what happens?

If Flacco thrives and puts points on the board for us and throws several more TD passes than Ints and our defensive players regain that aura, we'll definitely be on our way to being considered a dynasty. We need to make the playoffs and reach a SB or 2 and win another to be a legit dynasty!

Edited by ellicottraven
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Just entertain my speculation for a moment...

Suppose Evans doesn't drop that pass and we go to the SB. We beat NYG,giving us back to back Super Bowls.

I think three AFCCG and 2 Superbowls, while making the playoffs each of those five years puts us on "dynasty status".

Of course ifs and buts....

Just saying that we are / were right on the cusp. I wouldn't say we are nowhere close

Yeah we are a 'maybe' dynasty if we use your 'what if' scenario... but if whatifs mattered then there may have been several more dynasties out there. Consider this 'what if' - What if Peyton Manning wasn't in the NFL when he haunted us? We may have won the SB with McNair too.

However, I do concede that the Evans drop changed our history big time! I still can't believe it and it still hurts so bad...

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Yeah we are a 'maybe' dynasty if we use your 'what if' scenario... but if whatifs mattered then there may have been several more dynasties out there. Consider this 'what if' - What if Peyton Manning wasn't in the NFL when he haunted us? We may have won the SB with McNair too.

However, I do concede that the Evans drop changed our history big time! I still can't believe it and it still hurts so bad...

Oh I realize that if we go the 'what if' route, then that applies to the rest of the teams as well; just trying to demonstrate how painfully close we already are

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Consider there are no active dynasty teams right now, so no, but we have a chance.  We are certainly one of the top 5 teams in the league.

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It's between us, Seattle, Green Bay, and possibly the giants, possibly the saints. All a common theme, young franchise qb with many years left under his belt, a good coach, and a young core of players under contract for a few years. We are the only afc team I see with real dynasty potential we just need live up to it

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Dynasty's win multiple superbowls in consecutive or near consecutive years. So the answer is no.

 

Becuase of the stupid salary cap!

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If we solidify our O-line and our Defense than yes. And maybe expose loopholes in the bogus salary cap.

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I'm jealous of Baltimore's level of consistency over the years.  A dynasty is a nice thing to strive for but isn't realistic.   The Ravens are a model that every team should try to emulate.   

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We lack star power on this team. We don't have a difference maker

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Dynasty in the NFL is 3 championships in 5 years.

We aren't even close to a dynasty. We should be, but we are not.

I do agree that Dynasties are 3 titles in 5 seasons. But we are relatively close. We're 33% there, a helluva lot closer than MANY other teams.

We lack star power on this team. We don't have a difference maker

We do lack star power but that's the good thing about the NFL. One or two stars won't bring you a title, you need system complimentary pieces to your best players and a sound system and we definitely have both.

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Not a dynasty yet, but definitely "elite". :-)

Ha yeah, 8-8 sure is the record of an "elite" team. We need to stop worrying about dynasties and start worrying about locking up winnable games in the W column before we break our arms patting ourselves on the back.

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Dynasties only come around every once in a bluemoon. Its so hard to repeat as champions in today's NFL because of the fact that its hard to retain your players. Obviously the reason you got to the SB is because you have playmakers on both sides of the ball and its hard to keep them when they have the leverage to go out and get extremely overpaid. To the players winning a Sb is the cherry on top of their career...and afterwards they just want to go after money and take it easy lol

 

For the Ravens...we are a very respectable organization who has had good success over the years.

 

158-129-1 (reg season)

14-7  (Playoffs)

 

and the big 2-0 in the super bowl

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Dynasties' had an elite/HOF caliber play at qb.So I would say consistent, but no where near dynasty

Tom Brady in the mid 2000s says hello
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Ha yeah, 8-8 sure is the record of an "elite" team. We need to stop worrying about dynasties and start worrying about locking up winnable games in the W column before we break our arms patting ourselves on the back.

8-8 is not elite.  When talking about dynasties (dynasty's?), we talk about how good teams are over the course of several years.  When we talk about how good the Ravens have been for several years, they are certainly elite.  They are good enough to withstand an 8-8 season and still be elite team.

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Dynasty's win multiple superbowls in consecutive or near consecutive years. So the answer is no.

 

Whoop!  There it is!

 

#Mili

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Dynasties' had an elite/HOF caliber play at qb.So I would say consistent, but no where near dynasty

 

 

Tom Brady in the mid 2000s says hello

 

Why does he say hello?

 

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

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Why does he say hello?

 

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

 

Uh what - he finished above 4000 yards passing one time, never even reached a 93 QBR, and never hit 30 passing TDs in a season from 2001-2006.  Guys like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Matt Hasslebeck, and Trent Green all had consistently better numbers than Brady did during that period.  Brady made 1 probowl in that period, why, because every year at least 3-5 guys had a better season.  So Brady was hardly elite during that period - he didn't start to find himself alongside the league leaders in statistical categories until 2007.  Weird actually, because I think he was much more clutch during that period, and when the team wasn't focused on him, the Pats won 3 Superbowls, but since 2007 they've been much more of an offensive team, and he hasn't been able to win a Superbowl since.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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Why does he say hello?

To show off his elite numbers for that period?

ha, sibce Brady got elite new england haven't won a thing, surprisingly.

They won their superbowls with that defense, their kicker and not turning the ball over. And of course the head coach.

Brady was the epitome of a game manager when new England were winning superbowls

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Uh what - he finished above 4000 yards passing one time, never even reached a 93 QBR, and never hit 30 passing TDs in a season from 2001-2006.  Guys like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Matt Hasslebeck, and Trent Green all had consistently better numbers than Brady did during that period.  Brady made 1 probowl in that period, why, because every year at least 3-5 guys had a better season.  So Brady was hardly elite during that period - he didn't start to find himself alongside the league leaders in statistical categories until 2007.  Weird actually, because I think he was much more clutch during that period, and when the team wasn't focused on him, the Pats won 3 Superbowls, but since 2007 they've been much more of an offensive team, and he hasn't been able to win a Superbowl since.

 

your joking right?

 

he was in top 10 in pretty much every category  prior to 2007 and he did it with far less talent then any QB you mentioned.

 

1 pro bowl???

2001 2004 2005 and 2007 where all pro bowl years.

 

2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

2002 1st in TD 6th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2003 10t in TD 6th in pass yards 10th in QB rating

2004  6th in TD 10th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2005  3rd in TD 1st in pass yards 6th in QB rating

2006  4th in TD 7th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2007 1st in all 3

 

his top Wrs prior to 2007:

TE: C Fauria

Wr: T.Brown,D.Branch, D.Givens

RB:  K.Faulk and C.Dillon.

 

feel free to compare these players to other receiving cores and then come back and tell me how much talent he had to work with lol.

Also keep in mind defenses where still allowed to actually play defense back then.

 

Given the players he had on offense, the numbers he managed to put up , the rules at that time and the fact that the 2002 9-7 season was the worst mark for the pats in that period and the fact it was a run first offense, i find it hard to argue he wasent elite lol.

 

It isent suprisingly that corey dillon retired after the 2006 season and they went and brought in welker and moss for 2007 season.....

 

we all hate the patriots and brady here and i will always remind pats fans abou spygate but lets not go the homer route and argue that brady was an avg QB lol.

 

for a mere 6th round pick he is easy 1 of the greatest draft steals of all time....

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The Ravens won't be a dynasty until they learn to play their young guys. When I look at the Seahawks, they haven't been afraid to start their guys. We also need to draft tough, hard hitting guys.

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ha, sibce Brady got elite new england haven't won a thing, surprisingly.

They won their superbowls with that defense, their kicker and not turning the ball over. And of course the head coach.

Brady was the epitome of a game manager when new England were winning superbowls

 

2001 perhaps you right.

 

2003 was 10th in TD and 6th in yards

2004 was 6th in TD and 10th in yards.

 

Also in 2002 he lead the league in TD thrown...

 

find it hard to imagine a simple game manager would have top 10 numbers.

i find it really hard to imagine a game manager would have top 10 numbers with such a poor receiver core playing in a run first offense...

League must have been pretty terrible if a game manager throws for the most TD lol.

 

you must be lookin at joe flacco numbers  orso lol.

Edited by Tru11
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2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

You can't credit Tom Brady fully with 3 SB wins. Especially the first one. The Patriots got to the SB via the Tuck Rule in 2001. Brady fumbled the ball in the 2001 AFC DIVISIONAL GAME. If we're gonna hold Peyton throwing an INT to Tracy Porter in the SB against him, which I do, than I still have to put an astirisk on that title, which Brady would've fumbled away, if it were not for the refs helping him out.

Brady's performance in that SB game wasn't that important anyway. It had more to do with Bill Belichicks defense beating up the Rams receivers than the QB play, which is true for most of the SB titles that team won.

As soon as the Patriots lost their defensive players, the Patriots "dynasty" dried up.

 

Tom Brady is a 2 SB QB, right up there with Jim Plunkett, who would've seen the same success on those same teams. Elite numbers, by an elite system.

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2001 perhaps you right.

 

2003 was 10th in TD and 6th in yards

2004 was 6th in TD and 10th in yards.

 

Also in 2002 he lead the league in TD thrown...

 

find it hard to imagine a simple game manager would have top 10 numbers.

i find it really hard to imagine a game manager would have top 10 numbers with such a poor receiver core playing in a run first offense...

League must have been pretty terrible if a game manager throws for the most TD lol.

 

you must be lookin at joe flacco numbers  orso lol.

 

And in 2008 he was 10th in TD and 8th in yards...oh wait that was Matt Cassel.

 

I must've been looking at the numbers of their backup QB orso lol.

Edited by PolishRifle
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You can't credit Tom Brady fully with 3 SB wins. Especially the first one. The Patriots got to the SB via the Tuck Rule in 2001. Brady fumbled the ball in the 2001 AFC DIVISIONAL GAME. If we're gonna hold Peyton throwing an INT to Tracy Porter in the SB against him, which I do, than I still have to put an astirisk on that title, which Brady would've fumbled away, if it were not for the refs helping him out.

Brady's performance in that SB game wasn't that important anyway. It had more to do with Bill Belichicks defense beating up the Rams receivers than the QB play, which is true for most of the SB titles that team won.

As soon as the Patriots lost their defensive players, the Patriots "dynasty" dried up.

 

Tom Brady is a 2 SB QB, right up there with Jim Plunkett, who would've seen the same success on those same teams. Elite numbers, by an elite system.

 

he earned SB MVP in 2 of them lol.

 

everyone is crediting flacco for doing the same , not mention use any excuse in the book to keep him from being bashed.

 

seriously why do we have double standards??

 

Also how can someone who leads the league in TD 1 year as has been top 10 in pretty much every major category for a QB be qualified as a game manger??

 

that doesen make any sense at all.

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Brady is the most over rated player in the history of the NFL thanks to the media. Buy into his "greatness" if you want, but his name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Unitas, Montana, etc.. 

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he earned SB MVP in 2 of them lol.

 

everyone is crediting flacco for doing the same , not mention use any excuse in the book to keep him from being bashed.

 

seriously why do we have double standards??

 

Also how can someone who leads the league in TD 1 year as has been top 10 in pretty much every major category for a QB be qualified as a game manger??

 

that doesen make any sense at all.

 

I don't have any double standards. Flacco and Brady are the products of their teams, their coaches and their divisions. That includes numbers and playoff success. You either have a franchise QB or you don't and both of them are. I don't see the big difference, just because you selectively quote statistics, which would make Matt Cassel look like an elite QB (a moniker I find ridiculous).

 

The problem is that everyone elevates Brady above anyone else, while almost everyone, including our own fans are bashing Flacco. The Patriots are the most underrated TEAM in history, that somehow gets the rep of being carried by Brady, while too many people assume, that the Ravens would've seen the same kind of success with any QB.

Edited by PolishRifle
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And in 2008 he was 10th in TD and 8th in yards...oh wait that was Matt Cassel.

 

I must've been looking at the numbers of their backup QB orso lol.

 

lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

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Tom Brady in the mid 2000s says hello

 

 

The game has changed much in a decade.

 

On another note Ravens have been consistent but need to reel off another Super Bowl win soon and get some 12 to 14 plus win regular seasons under their belt to be in the dynasty discussion.

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lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

 

It was Cassels first season as the starter of the Patriots and his numbers are actually better than Bradys first.

 

The game has changed much in a decade.

 

On another note Ravens have been consistent but need to reel off another Super Bowl win soon and get some 12 to 14 plus win regular seasons under their belt to be in the dynasty discussion.

 

I agree with that. Dynasties win SBs in short consecutive order. The Ravens need to be in atleast SB contention next season for this topic to even have a point.

Edited by PolishRifle
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lol and how much has cassel done since then?

 

also i consider going from:

50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating to  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards and a 63.15 QB rating a pretty considerable drop in production lol.

 

yeah sure cassel put up some nice numbers but they are far from what brady managed with the same players in the same system.....

 

you guys blind hate is pretty amusing lol.

 

 

Forget stats.  Have you ever watched him play? His greatest asset is that he has a quick release. Other than that I've never seen anything from him that would remotely qualify him for the praise he gets. Dink and dunk is his game.  And the way he just falls down in anticipation of contact is down right pathetic. Like I said, Brady is the most over rated player in the history of the game.

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come on man if you wanna compare bady to cassel look no further then 2007 and 2008.

 

same system and same players 1 year apart:

 

brady 2007 50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating

cassel 2008  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards 63.15 QB rating

 

how are you going to compare cassel in 2008 to brady in 2001.................

yeah man that makes sense rofl

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If this topic is going to stay active, it needs to be about the Ravens. Comparing QBs from other teams to each other has no place here.

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your joking right?

 

he was in top 10 in pretty much every category  prior to 2007 and he did it with far less talent then any QB you mentioned.

 

1 pro bowl???

2001 2004 2005 and 2007 where all pro bowl years.

 

2 SB MVP and 3 SB wins....

 

2002 1st in TD 6th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2003 10t in TD 6th in pass yards 10th in QB rating

2004  6th in TD 10th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2005  3rd in TD 1st in pass yards 6th in QB rating

2006  4th in TD 7th in pass yards 9th in QB rating

2007 1st in all 3

 

his top Wrs prior to 2007:

TE: C Fauria

Wr: T.Brown,D.Branch, D.Givens

RB:  K.Faulk and C.Dillon.

 

feel free to compare these players to other receiving cores and then come back and tell me how much talent he had to work with lol.

Also keep in mind defenses where still allowed to actually play defense back then.

 

Given the players he had on offense, the numbers he managed to put up , the rules at that time and the fact that the 2002 9-7 season was the worst mark for the pats in that period and the fact it was a run first offense, i find it hard to argue he wasent elite lol.

 

It isent suprisingly that corey dillon retired after the 2006 season and they went and brought in welker and moss for 2007 season.....

 

we all hate the patriots and brady here and i will always remind pats fans abou spygate but lets not go the homer route and argue that brady was an avg QB lol.

 

for a mere 6th round pick he is easy 1 of the greatest draft steals of all time....

 

I might have slipped on the probowls, but those numbers are far from elite, as you pointed out yourself.  10th in QBR is not elite.  < 4000 yards passing is NOT elite.  He wasn't carrying his team, he was a complement and had a strong run game and defense.  Elite quarterbacks carry their team.  And often don't build a dynasty - teams that win multiple superbowls typically don't have quarterbacks putting up top numbers e.g. the 90s cowboys, the early 2000s pats, the Steelers making 3 superbowls from 2005-2010.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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come on man if you wanna compare bady to cassel look no further then 2007 and 2008.

 

same system and same players 1 year apart:

 

brady 2007 50 TD 8 INT 4806 yards 117.2 QB rating

cassel 2008  21TD 11 INT 3693 yards 63.15 QB rating

 

how are you going to compare cassel in 2008 to brady in 2001.................

yeah man that makes sense rofl

 

2008 Cassel and 2001 Brady are both starters and Cassel outperformed Brady by almost 1000 yards passing, 2007 Brady has been a starter for 6 seasons at that point. Yeah, that does make sense. Whatever, keep making excuses to elevate Brady to a status beyond reason like everyone else does as he beat up on 3 clueless franchises in his conference on the most underrated team ever (thanks to all the Brady apologists).

 

The Patriots dynasty, like most, is build on:

 

A great Headcoach (we have that)

A franchise QB (we have that)

A well run system (we hopefully get that)

A good defense (we have that)

A great OL (THAT is probably the biggest problem for the RAVENS to resolve)

 

The Ravens can be a dynastiy, IF they can find a way to turn the OL around into a top 10 unit (tall order considering the last season).

Edited by PolishRifle
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2008 Cassel and 2001 Brady are both starters and Cassel outperformed Brady by almost 1000 yards passing, 2007 Brady has been a starter for 6 seasons at that point. Yeah, that does make sense. Whatever, keep making excuses to elevate Brady to a status beyond reason like everyone else does as he beat up on 3 clueless franchises in his conference on the most underrated team ever (thanks to all the Brady apologists).

 

The Patriots dynasty, like most, is build on:

 

A great Headcoach (we have that)

A franchise QB (we have that)

A well run system (we hopefully get that)

A good defense (we have that)

A great OL (THAT is probably the biggest problem for the RAVENS to resolve)

 

The Ravens can be a dynastiy, IF they can find a way to turn the OL around into a top 10 unit (tall order considering the last season).

 

 

No question that the O line is what killed our roll last year and is the piece we need to move into a "dynasty" period. 

 

If the O line would not have gelled at the end of 2012 we would have never been able to make that tournament run. It's no fallacy that games are won/lost at the los.

Edited by Tank 92
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