Militant X 1

Is it True? Joe Flacco has the most fumbles in the NFL?

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This is a sincere question for the stats guys in here and NOT a shred Joe Flacco thread.

 

I just heard on ESPN2 that since 2010, Michael Vick has the second most fumbles (36) in the NFL only behind Joe Flacco (37).

 

Is that true?

 

#Mili

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He's improved, a lot with his ball security. It seemed like he was guaranteed to lose at least 1 his first 3 years to any team that safety blitzed. Something that really use to anger me cause it seemed to always happen at the worst possible time in games. Didnt know he held the record though. Good job Joe.

Edited by redrum52
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Yes, he's got 37 since 2010, if they played the same number of games Vick would be 'winning' in a landslide. Vick missed 22 games since 2010, which doesn't include when he was benchwarming.

 

Some other interesting/funny things

 

Since 2010:

Mark Sanchez has 33 (he didn't play all of 2013)

Roethlisberger has 30 (missed 8 games)

RG3 has 23 (since 2012, missed 4 games)

Philip Rivers has 34

 

Between 2000-2003, Daunte Culpepper had 66 fumbles (and he missed 7 games in that span)

Between 2006-2009, Kurt Warner had 44 fumbles (missed 13 games, benchwarmed for others)

 

Flacco's gotten better at ball security but needs to improve it, still.

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I can't honestly say I'm surprised. The Ravens had a pass poor offensive line for the most part and were running a vertical offense. That's not a good recipe for no fumbles.

I bet Manning doesn't have many in Denver because of stellar offensive line play and a very quick strike offense

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Wow I knew he was really bad at securing the football, something I know he has worked at and gotten better, but man the worst in the NFL huh? That's a pretty bad achievement, however, I know he is one of the most hit and sacked QB's too, so that should be taken into account. This past season, I would be curious to know how many he had vs, previous, because I feel like he has improved a lot over previous seasons.

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He's never had double digit fumbles in those seasons, but has like 8-9 per season.  The number is slightly misleading though, because Joe has started 16 games the last 4 years, while some of the other "leaders" on those lists - Vick, McCoy, McNabb, Garrard, Cutler, RGIII - haven't.

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He's never had double digit fumbles in those seasons, but has like 8-9 per season.  The number is slightly misleading though, because Joe has started 16 games the last 4 years, while some of the other "leaders" on those lists - Vick, McCoy, McNabb, Garrard, Cutler, RGIII - haven't.

Very true, his 'fumble rate' isn't as poor as the total implies.

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We have never had a GREAT offensive line so its a no brainer. We have had pieces to a great O-line over the years like Marshal Yanda, Ben Grubbs, a healthy Jared Gaither and an in shape and hard working Bryant McKinnie. But since JO left we have not had much success at finding a long term answer to protect Joe's bind side.

 

Michael Vick LOSES more fumbles though...he gets  hit so hard he doesnt even bother to go after the ball and just lays there hahaha Atleast Flacco fights for some.

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We have never had a GREAT offensive line so its a no brainer. We have had pieces to a great O-line over the years like Marshal Yanda, Ben Grubbs, a healthy Jared Gaither and an in shape and hard working Bryant McKinnie. But since JO left we have not had much success at finding a long term answer to protect Joe's bind side.

 

Michael Vick LOSES more fumbles though...he gets  hit so hard he doesnt even bother to go after the ball and just lays there hahaha Atleast Flacco fights for some.

 

And again, when comparing Vick to Flacco, Flacco has started 64 games over the last 4 years, while Vick's only started 41.  And Joe has 37 fumbles, while Vick has 35, in that time span.

Edited by Ravenslifer
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And again, when comparing Vick to Flacco, Flacco has started 64 games over the last 4 years, while Vick's only started 41.  And Joe has 37 fumbles, while Vick has 35, in that time span.

I know...Vick  lead the league in overall turnovers (fumbles being a large portion) and lost his starting gig because of it. They would highlight throughout the weeks leading up to games that the Eagles brass would do EVERYTHING possible to promote better ball protection from Vick...he would walk around practice every day with the ball in his hands and everyone would try and knock it out. And still with all that practice Vick would fumble the first chance he got on Sunday haha

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Yes, he's got 37 since 2010, if they played the same number of games Vick would be 'winning' in a landslide. Vick missed 22 games since 2010, which doesn't include when he was benchwarming.

 

Some other interesting/funny things

 

Since 2010:

Mark Sanchez has 33 (he didn't play all of 2013)

Roethlisberger has 30 (missed 8 games)

RG3 has 23 (since 2012, missed 4 games)

Philip Rivers has 34

 

Between 2000-2003, Daunte Culpepper had 66 fumbles (and he missed 7 games in that span)

Between 2006-2009, Kurt Warner had 44 fumbles (missed 13 games, benchwarmed for others)

 

Flacco's gotten better at ball security but needs to improve it, still.

 

All good. Flacco has more SB MVP's than everyone on that list combined!

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All good. Flacco has more SB MVP's than everyone on that list combined!

Didnt Warner win MVP?

Also, last year was the first year the o line was real bad. Its not always the o lines fault. Some of it is coverages and playcalling, while some of it is Joe just takes too long to get rid of the ball sometimes. Which reminds me, does anyone have the numbers for his fumbles this season. Considering the constant pressure, he didn't seem to fumble too much this season.

Edited by redrum52
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Why am not surprised..

Oh, and he is also the highest paid player in NFL this year.

 

(wrong, cutler is  flacco total cap isnt even close to top 5 in NFL)

Edited by Ravenseconbeast
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These kinds of stats are always so misleading.   Flacco has had one of the worst offensive lines in football, his offensive coordinators have installed some of the slowest developing routes for the passing plays (along with a receiving corps that in general has never been adept at gaining significant separation in the first place), forcing Flacco to sit in a volatile pocket for longer periods of time, and then you also have to consider that sometimes a fumble is registered to a QB's stat sheet even though it might have been a bad snap or a botched handoff that wasn't the QB's fault (thus muddying the waters of how valuable the stat can be when you can never be sure who is actually at fault unless you watch the tape of every snap and make judgment calls and modify the stat sheets accordingly).  And finally he is one of only 6 players to play in all 64 regular season games in that span.  The other guys are:  Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, and Eli Manning.  Nobody else has played in more than 57 games.

 

When you have a bad offensive line, an offense that *requires you* to hold onto the ball forever on passing plays, and you haven't missed a game when most other players in the league have missed plenty of games... it is very easy to lead the league in fumbles.

Edited by callahan09
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These kinds of stats are always so misleading. Flacco has had one of the worst offensive lines in football, his offensive coordinators have installed some of the slowest developing routes for the passing plays (along with a receiving corps that in general has never been adept at gaining significant separation in the first place), forcing Flacco to sit in a volatile pocket for longer periods of time, and then you also have to consider that sometimes a fumble is registered to a QB's stat sheet even though it might have been a bad snap or a botched handoff that wasn't the QB's fault (thus muddying the waters of how valuable the stat can be when you can never be sure who is actually at fault unless you watch the tape of every snap and make judgment calls and modify the stat sheets accordingly). And finally he is one of only 6 players to play in all 64 regular season games in that span. The other guys are: Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, and Eli Manning. Nobody else has played in more than 57 games.

When you have a bad offensive line, an offense that *requires you* to hold onto the ball forever on passing plays, and you haven't missed a game when most other players in the league have missed plenty of games... it is very easy to lead the league in fumbles.

That's an exaggeration and you know it. Flacco had a bad line last year. The years before that were more than substantial. We spent a lot of money keeping flacco protected over the years.

Aaron Rodgers easily had a much worse lineman for years and yet his not a fumbler.

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What bothered me most about Joe last year were his 22 interceptions. He was consistently throwing 10 or 12 interceptions per regular season before last year. Blame his line, lack of run game, and receivers if you want, but 22 is an awful lot. Hopefully he gets back to his 10-12 this year, or even has his first single digit interception season. With his fumbles and interceptions, Joe has to secure the ball better. 

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That's an exaggeration and you know it. Flacco had a bad line last year. The years before that were more than substantial. We spent a lot of money keeping flacco protected over the years.

Aaron Rodgers easily had a much worse lineman for years and yet his not a fumbler.

In Flaccos defense, Rodgers is the best qb in the league. Accurate, strong arm, smart, great pocket awareness and mobile. Damn you Kyle Boller. I blame you for us not drafting him.

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Pretty sure it would be difficult to hold onto your marbles let a lone a football when a 6 foot 6, 350lb lineman is landing on your chest.

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I also suspect that some "officiating" comes in to play. Some QBs never "fumble" because theirs are called incomplete forward passes. Joe (and some of the other high number QBs) never get those calls.

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I also suspect that some "officiating" comes in to play. Some QBs never "fumble" because theirs are called incomplete forward passes. Joe (and some of the other high number QBs) never get those calls.

Some have an entire rule for them (Tuck Rule).  Glad they ditched that.

 

It seems that Joe has gotten slightly better at his awareness.  When someone was chasing him from behind I would always be screaming WATCH OUT.  He seems to be a little better.  Still needs improvement but it doesn't help when he is consistently running for his life.

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Oh, and he is also the highest paid player in NFL this year.

How did you all let this blatant lie slide?
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That's an exaggeration and you know it. Flacco had a bad line last year. The years before that were more than substantial. We spent a lot of money keeping flacco protected over the years.

Aaron Rodgers easily had a much worse lineman for years and yet his not a fumbler.

That's a lie. Aaron Rodgers's offensive lines are very underrated. He's consistently one of the least pressured quarterbacks in the league. Plus, they run a west coast offense that gets the ball out very quickly
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That's a lie. Aaron Rodgers's offensive lines are very underrated. He's consistently one of the least pressured quarterbacks in the league. Plus, they run a west coast offense that gets the ball out very quickly

 

Nope I can my story with a fact.   You want it?

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That's an exaggeration and you know it. Flacco had a bad line last year. The years before that were more than substantial. We spent a lot of money keeping flacco protected over the years.

Aaron Rodgers easily had a much worse lineman for years and yet his not a fumbler.

 

I wouldn't say we spent a lot of money on the OL, however, we did invest a good bit via the draft over the years. Whether or not they panned out is another story, but this says it all to me:

 

every time I see a guy come in unblocked, my first instinct is always "Oh gawd, just hold onto the football Joe!". If Flacco sold the PA better, and for godssakes stopped fumbling every other week, I'd be a happy camper

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That's a lie. Aaron Rodgers's offensive lines are very underrated. He's consistently one of the least pressured quarterbacks in the league. Plus, they run a west coast offense that gets the ball out very quickly

You sure about that?

Also, cap and actual salary are 2 different things. You all know that.

Edited by redrum52
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You would be hard pressed to find an O line worse than the Ravens fielded last year. Even Yanda had an off year and I just can't think of a bright point to offer other than the Monroe signing. One of the worst run games in the history of the NFL and a huge # of sacks bear witness to just how bad they were. Pretty amazing Joe's stats and health were not worse than they were.

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I could care less what the guy actually makes(that is for Bisciotti to worry about), the cap hit is what is important for the team and currently Flacco's cap number is 14.8 mil which is fine for him.

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You sure about that?

Also, cap and actual salary are 2 different things. You all know that.

I remember in 2012 he was like the sixth least pressured quarterback and I remember that since people used to try to use Rodgers line as an argument against Andrew Luck, the most pressured quarterback in the NFL
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corrected and i definitely apologize about this one.

sorry flacco fans!

Has nothing to do with being a Flacco fan, when someone tells a blatant lie it's going to be called out.

And by the way, this is a Ravens forum in case you haven't noticed. Being a "Flacco fan" isn't exactly a surprise or an insult.

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Thats one season. If I remember correctly, he was also one of the most sacked qbs in the league for a few years. Could be wrong though.

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Still the sixth or seventh least pressured quarterback in the NFL. 35th ranked quarterback in terms of time holding onto the ball. You realize that time holding onto the ball and sacks are proportional, right? Mannijg had the quickest release and was the least sacked. Rodgers held onto it longer than average by far and got sacked a lot more. His offensive lines are vastly underrated

Edited by BmoreBird22
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Still the sixth or seventh least pressured quarterback in the NFL. 35th ranked quarterback in terms of time holding onto the ball. You realize that time holding onto the ball and sacks are proportional, right? Mannijg had the quickest release and was the least sacked. Rodgers held onto it longer than average by far and got sacked a lot more. His offensive lines are vastly underrated

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/

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So essentially Flacco is pressured more than Rodgers on fewer drop backs. Look at the pressure percentage and notice that Rodgers has a percentage of 25.9% ranking as the 7th best percentage while Flacco has a percentage of 31.4% ranking as the 14th worst or 20th best since there are 34 qbs. So essentially, Rodgers has the 7th best pass protecting O-line in terms of pressures per drop back while Flacco has a slightly below average O-line in terms of pressures per drop back at 20th best or 14th worst out of 34 qbs who apparently had enough drop backs to qualify for the stats. Basically, Rodgers has a better pass protecting O-line than Flacco since Flacco is pressured more on fewer drop backs.

Edited by 52520Andrew
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I know it says "Updated March 4, 2014", but if it was, I'm not sure what was updated, because all of these numbers are blatantly still from the March 7, 2013 original publication date, a year outdated now.

 

Rodgers has an average annual salary of $22m and Ryan has $20.75m now, both higher than Flacco's $20.1.  You also have to consider that those figures are average over the life of the contract, assuming the entire contract is earned.  It isn't talking about THIS YEAR, when your original comment said he is the highest paid NFL player THIS YEAR (he is not).  That article doesn't consider anything about cap hits or guaranteed money... Flacco's contract is downright CHEAP when you look at the guaranteed money.  He is only guaranteed $4.833m per year, which ranks just 18th of current QB contracts.

 

His cap hit this year is $14.8m, 12th among QBs, and not even tops on the Ravens.

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joe flacco used to be stiff as a board with no awareness of a blindside rush. zone blitzing DB's and elite pass rushers lined up on the left tackle used to be licking their chops looking for the strip sack. he has gotten WAYYYYY better at ball security and awareness though, and i think when it comes to moving around in the pocket and avoiding the sack, he has no become one of the better qb's in the league at doing it.

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That's why I was never dumb enough to fall for the slanted perception presented by so-called "professional" sports analysts.  This is why NFL coverage becomes more of a joke every day.

Edited by playlikeawhat
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Yes, he's got 37 since 2010, if they played the same number of games Vick would be 'winning' in a landslide. Vick missed 22 games since 2010, which doesn't include when he was benchwarming.

 

Some other interesting/funny things

 

Since 2010:

Mark Sanchez has 33 (he didn't play all of 2013)

Roethlisberger has 30 (missed 8 games)

RG3 has 23 (since 2012, missed 4 games)

Philip Rivers has 34

 

Between 2000-2003, Daunte Culpepper had 66 fumbles (and he missed 7 games in that span)

Between 2006-2009, Kurt Warner had 44 fumbles (missed 13 games, benchwarmed for others)

 

Flacco's gotten better at ball security but needs to improve it, still.

 

Thanks B!  That makes a lot of sense.

 

#Mili

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....  and Flacco has NO missed games...  That being said... Yes, when you consider the amount of time this guys spends running for his life, getting pummeled up the middle, and trying to get plays to develop and find open receivers in 2.7 seconds.... Sheesh...

 

We need to stop trying to "find" things wrong with our QB...  stop with the crazy stats.  We all need to understand WHY things are the way that they are.

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Yes, he's got 37 since 2010, if they played the same number of games Vick would be 'winning' in a landslide. Vick missed 22 games since 2010, which doesn't include when he was benchwarming.

 

Some other interesting/funny things

 

Since 2010:

Mark Sanchez has 33 (he didn't play all of 2013)

Roethlisberger has 30 (missed 8 games)

RG3 has 23 (since 2012, missed 4 games)

Philip Rivers has 34

 

Between 2000-2003, Daunte Culpepper had 66 fumbles (and he missed 7 games in that span)

Between 2006-2009, Kurt Warner had 44 fumbles (missed 13 games, benchwarmed for others)

 

Flacco's gotten better at ball security but needs to improve it, still.

Thanks Berad.

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